Ecclestone = Hypocrite

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Makes sense to me. I dont like the solutions to it though, so it's a no win situation.
 
Makes perfect sense. Has he claimed otherwise in the near past?
 
When it's all said and done, Eccelstone has never asked the teams to spend-spend-spend. He doesn't care, to be honest, especially when he was known as a penny-pincher back when he was the supremo at Brabham.

He asks the circuit owners, race organizers, and heads of state to surgically remove their wallets from their pockets and removes all the cash before they feel any pain. The anesthetic wears off in a few years, though.
 
Makes perfect sense. Has he claimed otherwise in the near past?

It's not what he claims, it's what he does, I guess. Why don't we have a USA GP ? Why don't we have a Canadian GP? Why is the German GP continuity questioned?

Money. He wants more than 1st world countries, where public representatives are accountable, can or are willing to pay.
 
I find this particular quote amusing:
ITV.F1
Ecclestone also took a swipe at the bosses controlling spending at the F1 teams, saying: “The trouble is the teams are basically run by technicians who really should be at home playing with their PlayStations rather than spending fortunes.”

So he's trying to blame the fact that manufacturers are starting to find it not financially worth the while on the money they spend? No Bernie...its the fact you've axed half of the GP's the manufacturers care about and introduced new ones in markets they couldn't care less about.
 
So he's trying to blame the fact that manufacturers are starting to find it not financially worth the while on the money they spend?
No, he's saying that if you let them, the technicians will go off and spends millions of dollars on whatever takes their fancy, most of which will not pay for itself because it probably won't make it onto the car. He thinks management should be in charge of the teams because managers the world over are concerned with running business. The primary function of business is to make money, and one of the easiest ways to do that is to cut costs.
 
Bernie was such a money-pincher at Brabham that it helped drive Murray to McLaren. Teams started spending on their own - once one team started, the others had to follow if they wanted to remain competitive - he only asks the circuits-owners for money.


Bernie isn't evil. Many people are blaming him, but it's Mosley who really is the source of F1's current evil. The Canadian GP, frankly, asked for it with the surface-problems they had. I agree, he demands far too much money - but he also did good for the sport lately, unlike Mosley.
 
He thinks management should be in charge of the teams because managers the world over are concerned with running business.

Well run teams, especially those who use F1 as a central part of their business model (Ferrari, McLaren, Williams), are not going to feel the need to leave the sport due to the economic difficulties. They will be in F1 as long as F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport.

With Mosley constantly pushing for the definition of F1 to be changed these teams may not be so interested in continuing. These changes are also alienating the big manufacturers (BMW and Toyota) who wish to use F1 as a platform to develop technologies that will filter down to their production line.

The only teams that a low-tech F1 benefits are those using it purely as a marketing exercise (Renault, Red Bull, Force India). If these are the teams F1 wants to save then the sport will alienate more fans than just those interested in the technical side.

Seriously – budget cap. It’s not that hard.
 
he only asks the circuits-owners for money.
Bernie isn't evil. Many people are blaming him, but it's Mosley who really is the source of F1's current evil.

So who do we blame for the fall of the U.S. Grand Prix ? Is it one of these two , or do we blame the circuit owners here in the states for this one ?

I am being serious , as I would really like to know the truth behind this.
 
Well run teams, especially those who use F1 as a central part of their business model (Ferrari, McLaren, Williams), are not going to feel the need to leave the sport due to the economic difficulties. They will be in F1 as long as F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport.
Yes, and Honda - like Toyota - insist on running the team by committee. Sure, it's in keeping with the Japanese model of doing business, F1 teams need to be run with one person at the head of the team like Dennis or Briatore, because when you start having a committee, you start voting on things and the majority consensus is passed, which may not be th best thin for the team. Take Honda replaceing Geoff Willis with Shuei Nakamoto: Honda wanted Japanese people responsible for the design of the car, but Nakamota struggled to produce something that would have been competitive in Formula Three. Before his first year was out, Honda mechanics were openly saying he was out of his depth. If Geoff Willis had been retained, Honda may have notched up more wins and wouldn't be withdrawing.

With Mosley constantly pushing for the definition of F1 to be changed these teams may not be so interested in continuing. These changes are also alienating the big manufacturers (BMW and Toyota) who wish to use F1 as a platform to develop technologies that will filter down to their production line.
That's true, but the aim of Mosely's game has always been to lower costs to prevent teams from being forced to withdraw. And these things have to take time: you can just make all the changes at once, you need to phase them in and test them out before sticking with them.

The only teams that a low-tech F1 benefits are those using it purely as a marketing exercise (Renault, Red Bull, Force India). If these are the teams F1 wants to save then the sport will alienate more fans than just those interested in the technical side.
I think I'd much prefer a low-tech, competitive F1 than a high-tech championship dominated by one driver again.

Seriously – budget cap. It’s not that hard.
I agree, but the teams have too much power to make that happen.
 
Seriously – budget cap. It’s not that hard.

It's hard to enforce, teams will cry foul, and there's a billion things wrong with it (billions of hidden dollars, that is) - but it's the only sensible solution. You're too far ahead of the curve, Blake, too far. You see what Max will see in five years, when Ferrari and McLaren decide that F3 offers you more chances of development (and a strong competitor called Dallara), when Toyota and Renault can't afford to spend the money, and Toro Rosso and Williams start auctioning their facilities. That's when Mallya's time to shine will come - two VJM-07s in a field of two cars.

So who do we blame for the fall of the U.S. Grand Prix ? Is it one of these two , or do we blame the circuit owners here in the states for this one?

Team costs != Venue costs. Yes, Bernie places some huge demands on circuit-owners, which cost us Imola, Indianapolis, Magny-Cours, Montreal, and soon the German and Chinese venues - but that has nothing to do with a team's spending.

There's some relation, obviously - Honda would've found it easier to justify staying in F1 had they still had their North American races - but the teams don't pay that money.

I think I'd much prefer a low-tech, competitive F1 than a high-tech championship dominated by one driver again.

It was dominated by a single driver because he was just superior to his teammate, in a car that was superior to the others. Then came 2005, and he wasn't anywhere near the championship. When everyone is high-tech, like at the end of 2008, when for two seasons in a row just one team failed to score (Spyker/FIF1 in both years), when the whole field was separated by a mere second.. That's high-tech. When you can't gain real speed, and just fine-tune your designs and hone the last tenths out of them.

Low-tech, competitive F1? Go watch GP2. A1GP. IndyCar. F2. F3. Renault Euroseries. Formula Ford. Formula Vee. Karts. They're competitive, they're (mostly) cheap, they've got overtaking, but they're dull as dishwasher to the hardcore fans, the ones that like the spectacle, but are there for the cars, the speed, the technology. I've watched F1, and I watched Indy, some GP2, A1GP, F3 and NASCAR. Even Formula Master, the BTCC support-series. None of them came close to the addiction that F1 set off, because only in F1 could I log in and read technical files, compare aerodynamic parts and settings, analyze cars and teammates, re-read the history of development.

Formula One, by definition, is a high-tech series where only the top few are truly competitive. We complain about four-five winners per year, when in the old days, the top car would quite often out-qualify the field by over a second. They'd lap the whole field, and lap the backmarkers five or six times - if those backmarkers finished at all. These days, it takes some major mistakes by Sutil to get him lapped twice - that's as competitive and close as F1 should ever get.

Cost-cutting measures are needed, and now, if we want a decent-sized grid - but do we want it? Yeah, I want a full field, with fun amateurs like FIF1, serious amateurs like Aguri, struggling manufacturers like the '90s Ferrari or late-years Honda - and we need cost-cutting for that. But I don't want them to get their help for free - they can and should struggle - and the only way to get that is budget-caps. The '90s were a wonderful time, because nobody really dared to spend that much money - until Mercedes came along. Then Ferrari assembled their dream-team, dominated the sport, and kicked competitiveness and prices up a notch (or five). Until Mercedes came, FOM Prize-money was a major part of the budget - now, it's peanuts compared to sponsor-money and manufacturer backing.

If we want F1 to stay the pinnacle, we need to stop specing everything. If we want to keep teams around, we need lower costs. We can combine the two: Budget caps. Hard caps of 5m$ personnel, 30m$ development, 5m$ engines (or the option of a self-paid 15m$ budget to develop their own engine), and some extra money for things I've overlooked (perhaps drivers can be self-paid by sponsors?) - with shipping to races and testing handled by the FOM - and teams would be dying to enter the sport. Several teams stated that with 50m$ budgets, they'd be in the sport forever and then some. Set up a special division in the FIA to track team's expenses, have them account for every nut and bold, every e-mail attachment containing CFD data, and regulate it tightly.

I'd love F1 that way. Instead of stipulating the exact dimensions, once trying to reduce speeds and once trying to increase safety, once increasing overtaking-chances and once reducing them, and always overcomplicating the cars, we could define a set of rules that would ensure decent overtaking (and hopefully something that looks better than the 2009 package), and keep it that way. Then let the teams loose: let them choose between spending on a high-quality tunnel, a better engine, or the perfect chassis. The correct compromises, good management and skilled workforces will be the defining factor of F1 success - not pouring in money and assembling expensive dream-teams. Teams will have to chose between a genius, high-payed Newey, or 50 interns who might just have the next winning innovation in their fresh minds. Between trying a new concept like the sharkfin or bridge-wing, or just optimizing the surface-shapes. Between a new 72deg V10, or keeping their trusty V8 and squeezing extra reliability and power out of it.
 
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It was dominated by a single driver because he was just superior to his teammate, in a car that was superior to the others. Then came 2005, and he wasn't anywhere near the championship. When everyone is high-tech, like at the end of 2008, when for two seasons in a row just one team failed to score (Spyker/FIF1 in both years), when the whole field was separated by a mere second.. That's high-tech. When you can't gain real speed, and just fine-tune your designs and hone the last tenths out of them.

Low-tech, competitive F1? Go watch GP2. A1GP. IndyCar. F2. F3. Renault Euroseries. Formula Ford. Formula Vee. Karts. They're competitive, they're (mostly) cheap, they've got overtaking, but they're dull as dishwasher to the hardcore fans, the ones that like the spectacle, but are there for the cars, the speed, the technology. I've watched F1, and I watched Indy, some GP2, A1GP, F3 and NASCAR. Even Formula Master, the BTCC support-series. None of them came close to the addiction that F1 set off, because only in F1 could I log in and read technical files, compare aerodynamic parts and settings, analyze cars and teammates, re-read the history of development.
It was more of an either/or situation. Sure, there's always the potential that technology and competition can come together, but given the choice, I'd take competition over technology. I'm not as hardcore a fan as some people - largely because I can never tune into the races due to their being run in the early hours of the morning and the Australian broadcaster being run by a bunch of trained apes (without the training) - but when Schumacher dominated, I'd rather be watching paint dry.
 
An Israeli broadcaster is something that doesn't exist - I have to tune in to a German channel to watch. Races are during a work-day, and I tape them instead.

I'll take technology, and technological competition, over fake spec-induced "competition". Formula 1 was always a team-based competition first, and driver's competition second: The wrong driver in the right team could still win, but not often the other way. F1 wouldn't be half as interesting if it had gone with spec -everything like IndyCar, Champcars, A1GP, GP2, and (effectively, due to Dallara domination) F3. I'll watch a driver dominate, even if I dislike him, because it's the fruit of hard work and dedication from a whole team, the immense skill of the driver, and because it's the fastest car in the world, for that race.
 
It was more of an either/or situation. Sure, there's always the potential that technology and competition can come together, but given the choice, I'd take competition over technology.

Then what are you doing watching F1? This is the whole reason behind F1....spec engines are heading in the complete opposite direction and would make F1 no more useful than GP2 or F3000.
If you want pure competition, watch something else, but if you want to see a driver in a back-end team with inferior technology and car still manage to battle to a possible win, watch F1.
 
Then what are you doing watching F1? This is the whole reason behind F1....spec engines are heading in the complete opposite direction and would make F1 no more useful than GP2 or F3000.
Go back and read my post again: nowhere did I say spec engines were a good thing, and nor did I show any enthusiasm towards them.
 
Go back and read my post again: nowhere did I say spec engines were a good thing, and nor did I show any enthusiasm towards them.

It was implied from the conversation:
"Definition of F1 being changed by Mosley"> "Low tech, high competition better">"High tech is the definition of F1">"Competition over technology">"Technology over spec-induced competition" > my response
 
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