Evolution Studios closed by Sony

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Jawehawk
Did you miss the part where I said that I wasn't talking about skins? I mean actual cars being withhold from the game to sell as day one DLC or use as pre-order incentive, like that classic F1 pack in one of Codemasters F1 games. That said, I hold zero love for PD, so you won't find me defending them here. I have no source on how profitable Driveclub was, but given the awful launch, the early price cut of the game and it's season pass, and the fact that their closure was part of a larger move to ensure a viable business strategy, I think it's reasonable to assume that Evo wasn't making a profit, or if they were, it wasn't significant. I'll admit that I might very well be wrong on this, but I see nothing that suggests that they were profitable. if they were, I doubt they would've been closed.
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Those were not skins, they were four cars that could only be obtained by pre-ordering GT6.

It would also be nice if you could also refrain from posting your speculation as fact in future as well, which is what your comment "Evolution failed to turn a profit" is presented as.

Sony could well have closed Evolution as part of a rationalization of all 1st party racing titles to a single team (PD) regardless of any profit Evo may or may not have made, its a reason that doesn't require they to have lost money. However I can understand why you might not want to consider that, given that it wouldn't gel with Evo being treated 'fairly'.


Jawehawk
A lot of people steal stuff, guess that makes it okay? No offence, but this is an extremely dumb arguement.
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One's illegal and the others not, making that an 'extremely dumb argument'.

Now how about you lay off the personal digs (and that, just to be clear is a rhetorical question).
 
Jawehawk
A lot of people steal stuff, guess that makes it okay?
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It doesn't make it okay, but it does make it pretty hard for Evolution to end up with a publisher who doesn't do it; so the alternative probably would have remained staying shut down.
 
Jawehawk
Did you miss the part where I said that I wasn't talking about skins? I mean actual cars being withhold from the game to sell as day one DLC or use as pre-order incentive, like that classic F1 pack in one of Codemasters F1 games. That said, I hold zero love for PD, so you won't find me defending them here. I have no source on how profitable Driveclub was, but given the awful launch, the early price cut of the game and it's season pass, and the fact that their closure was part of a larger move to ensure a viable business strategy, I think it's reasonable to assume that Evo wasn't making a profit, or if they were, it wasn't significant. I'll admit that I might very well be wrong on this, but I see nothing that suggests that they were profitable. if they were, I doubt they would've been closed.
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You are not wrong. Motorstorm 1 had delays and problems on development. Motorstorm 2 already had lower sales than 1, then Apocalypse really tanked for a number of circunstances. Here's their group director saying he feared that would be the end of Evo.
Then we have Driveclub launch delay and problems.
Before getting shut down this year, Sony had already cut half their staff in 2015. Not a sign of a studio turning healthy profit, but if people keep repeating it, it'll become "true".

Unfortunately, layoffs and shutdowns are common practice in this business sector.
Codemasters are not unknown to them. 30+ employees including people working on Dirt Rally and F1 were sent away last year. Later the same year they closed a small mobile studio (11 employees) of theirs. In 2013, 80 employees in restructuring maneuvers.

It's always fun to read the inane "favorite child" silliness here though.

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I do hope Dirt Rally's team strategy works with Evolution under Codemasters.
Focus on the core game aspect even if it's light on surrouding content (which Dirt is).


At 50 employees (Dirt Rally had 20 or so according to the Eurogamer article) and being part of Code, they probably won't develop a new engine for a racing game since all teams there use the same engine. Their tech expertise certainly can help it build forward though.
They do make solid games, so this restrained environment should benefit them well.

Even if it doesn't sell gangbusters, the small budget due staff and dev cycle should make it enough to be a success much like Dirt Rally, that all in all will need good legs to cross 1mi sales.
 
Scaff
Those were not skins, they were four cars that could only be obtained by pre-ordering GT6.

It would also be nice if you could also refrain from posting your speculation as fact in future as well, which is what your comment "Evolution failed to turn a profit" is presented as.

Sony could well have closed Evolution as part of a rationalization of all 1st party racing titles to a single team (PD) regardless of any profit Evo may or may not have made, its a reason that doesn't require they to have lost money. However I can understand why you might not want to consider that, given that it wouldn't gel with Evo being treated 'fairly'.

One's illegal and the others not, making that an 'extremely dumb argument'.

Now how about you lay off the personal digs (and that, just to be clear is a rhetorical question).
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All the pre-order car models for GT6 were available in the base game as normal cars. The only difference was the livery (IE. skins) and perhaps slightly better performance. They are not different models.

I apologize for not wording it better, so that it might've come off as if it was a fact that they didn't turn a profit. My intention was to bring fourth what I believe to be the most likely theory on why they got closed. The bad launch combined with the seemingly poor reputation of the game and early price cut suggests that they didn't make a profit. We don't know how well the DLC's have sold, but given how outrageously cheap the season pass has been for a long time, I think it's a safe bet to say that it wasn't selling as much as they otherwise wanted. There's a reason other games can sometimes stay at full price for years (aside from sales), and if I recall correctly (I might not), Driveclub got cut down significantly within the first 6 months. These things all heavily imply that the game didn't do well in sales.

I wasn't attacking him, I was stating that his arguement was dumb. Hell, it's not even an arguement, as much as it is a statement. Other people doing stuff doesn't make it right, and that statement on its own, does nothing to contribute to the discussion. Now if he had worded it like Tornado did, then it would make sense as an arguement. Perhaps that was his intention from the get go, but if so, I didn't catch on fast enough. And if that is the case, I apologize.

In any case, I don't consider the lone arguement of them being closed as substantial evidence to suggest unfair treatment, when a lot of factors indicate that the game just wasn't doing as well as Sony wanted. As I said earlier, I don't agree with the decision to disband Evolution, as I rather like them and what they've done with Driveclub. I certainly don't want PD favored over what I consider to have been a much more competent studio. You might very well be right, and I might be missing the bigger picture, but I don't see the logic at play. Driveclub isn't a simulation, and as such, it's not in direct competition with Gran Turismo.
 
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Scaff
Those were not skins, they were four cars that could only be obtained by pre-ordering GT6.
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Never knew there are 4 pre order only cars in GT6 , what are these cars ? I have LE 15th Anniversary, and the bonus 15th anniversary cars are only unique skin/livery with added power upgrades. The only worthwhile bonus I got is the APEX II book :)
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Never knew there are 4 pre order only cars in GT6 , what are these cars ? I have LE 15th Anniversary, and the bonus 15th anniversary cars are only unique skin/livery with added power upgrades. The only worthwhile bonus I got is the APEX II book :)
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The link detailed them (and as I didn't buy GT6 new) I can't confirm the accuracy of it, but it does describe them as pre-order exclusive cars.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Never knew there are 4 pre order only cars in GT6 , what are these cars ? I have LE 15th Anniversary, and the bonus 15th anniversary cars are only unique skin/livery with added power upgrades. The only worthwhile bonus I got is the APEX II book :)
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The link detailed them (and as I didn't buy GT6 new) I can't confirm the accuracy of it, but it does describe them as pre-order exclusive cars.

Jawehawk
All the pre-order car models for GT6 were available in the base game as normal cars. The only difference was the livery (IE. skins) and perhaps slightly better performance. They are not different models.

I apologize for not wording it better, so that it might've come off as if it was a fact that they didn't turn a profit. My intention was to bring fourth what I believe to be the most likely theory on why they got closed. The bad launch combined with the seemingly poor reputation of the game and early price cut suggests that they didn't make a profit. We don't know how well the DLC's have sold, but given how outrageously the season pass has been for a long time, I think it's a safe bet to say that it wasn't selling as much as they otherwise wanted. There's a reason other games can sometimes stay at full price for years (aside from sales), and if I recall correctly (I might not), Driveclub got cut down significantly within the first 6 months. These things all heavily imply that the game didn't do well in sales.

I wasn't attacking him, I was stating that his arguement was dumb. Hell, it's not even an arguement, as much as it is a statement. Other people doing stuff doesn't make it right, and that statement on its own, does nothing to contribute to the discussion. Now if he had worded it like Tornado did, then it would make sense as an arguement. Perhaps that was his intention from the get go, but if so, I didn't catch on fast enough. And if that is the case, I apologize.

In any case, I don't consider the lone arguement of them being closed as substantial evidence to suggest unfair treatment, when a lot of factors indicate that the game just wasn't doing as well as Sony wanted. As I said earlier, I don't agree with the decision to disband Evolution, as I rather like them and what they've done with Driveclub. I certainly don't want PD favored over what I consider to have been a much more competent studio. You might very well be right, and I might be missing the bigger picture, but I don't see the logic at play. Driveclub isn't a simulation, and as such, it's not in direct competition with Gran Turismo.
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Thank you, and if you re-read all that I have posted you will see that I'm not stating that either is a fact, simply that numerous factors may well have been at play and assuming its based on a single one (at the exclusion of any other possibility) is rarely the reality.
 
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Scaff
The link detailed them (and as I didn't buy GT6 new) I can't confirm the accuracy of it, but it does describe them as pre-order exclusive cars.
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Link ? :confused: I got pre order LE 15th Anniversary, and it includes 20 15th Anniversary cars ( cars already in game with 15th Anniversary livery ), 15th Anniversary suit and helmet as well as 1 million in game credits. These bonus are not really special, what matters is the APEX II book included in the package. I got it pretty cheap as well, less than US $50.

There were different car packs for different region or retailer if I remember correctly, but these are just livery and power upgraded cars.
 
Scaff
Thank you, and if you re-read all that I have posted you will see that I'm not stating that either is a fact, simply that numerous factors may well have been at play and assuming its based on a single one (at the exclusion of any other possibility) is rarely the reality.
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I didn't mean to imply that you were presenting the theory as fact.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Link ? :confused: I got pre order LE 15th Anniversary, and it includes 20 15th Anniversary cars ( cars already in game with 15th Anniversary livery ), 15th Anniversary suit and helmet as well as 1 million in game credits. These bonus are not really special, what matters is the APEX II book included in the package. I got it pretty cheap as well, less than US $50.

There were different car packs for different region or retailer if I remember correctly, but these are just livery and power upgraded cars.
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"Every pre-order of the game will grant access to the “Precision Pack” which includes five otherwise unavailable cars from Gran Turismo’s back catalogue."
Link: http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2013/10/23/gran-turismo-6-pre-order-bonuses-revealed/

Jawehawk
I didn't mean to imply that you were presenting the theory as fact.
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No problem.
 
Good to see Evo get picked up but if Codies are serious about racers again im not sure Evo are the best purchase really as they are even more arcade orientated than Codies were last gen.
 
UkHardcore23
Good to see Evo get picked up but if Codies are serious about racers again im not sure Evo are the best purchase really as they are even more arcade orientated than Codies were last gen.
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I think reading the details quickly tonight, Evo will still be separate and keep their team together and be making their own games backed by codies (simcade) and not mixing the two (If I read this right) so I am thinking Evo will release simcade games still and Codies will have more time to concentrate on polishing the sims /rally/track games?

GT7/Sport Forza/FH2 looks like this is the way studios are going. With Pcars2/AC/GT coming within the next 6m-year or so the sim market is getting smaller. I feel there is more need for a decent arcade game racer to compete with Ubisoft/NFS who are now on a roll too and always room for more sim games of course. When you think only 18 months or so ago there were no racing games only Rivals NFS on the PS4!..So the bigger the racing genre gets again the better as it has gone through a rough time and more and more old fans are coming back to driving games again.👍
 
Jawehawk
Codemasters love to hide content away from consumers in the form of pre-order incentives (I'm not talking about petty skins, but actual content). That alone makes them a rubbish company. And I wasn't aware that making a company a 1st party studio is equal to treating a company bad. Evolution failed to turn a profit, and as such, they sadly got disbanded. I don't agree with the decision to do so, because I think the work they did on Driveclub post launch shows that they are a very capable bunch of people, but the fact remains that Driveclub failed during it's launch period, which is arguably the most important time for a game where revenue is concerned.

Motorstorm Apocalypse didn't fair well either, which possibly means that Evo Studios hadn't brought in an actual profit for quite some time. It's of course worth noting that Sony is at least partly to blame, due to them delaying the game (and outright cancelling it in Japan) after the earthquack in Japan.

My point is I fail to see how Evolution has been treated unfairly. If they didn't produce a profit, then this result was inevitable. It's good that the Evo crew gets to stick together, but I'd rather they weren't bought by a company that is involved in withholding content from the consumer to sell as day one DLC/pre-order incentives, and early access BS.
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If you know me you'll know how much I hate pre-order bonuses, season passes and DLC/microtransactions, especially content that is clearly finished at launch and merely withheld.

Yes, Codies have been really really bad with these practices in the past (Dirt 3, Grid 2 and GAS are all guilty). BUT with Dirt Rally they have been giving away cars and tracks for free in updates. Also I normally hate Early Access programs because there's always a risk of devs never finishing their game, but DR's program has been one of the best and most focused early access I've ever seen.

Now, it remains to be seen whether Codies will continue in their goodwill, but I would give them the benefit of doubt. The release of Grid 2 and GAS was a huge blow to their company's reputation and I think they realize these kinds of practices will do them no favours with customers. With the added financial stability, hopefully they don't need to do those practices anymore 👍

brownninja97
I remember talking about that a while back but they said there is no point because their goal is pretty much what AC and Pcars are doing.
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Fair enough. Too much of the same thing can be bad also. Actually Codies simcade physics have always been the best in the business. Now if they could fix their FFB system, it would be perfect.
 
The problem with a new TOCA style game is the massive increase in series based license prices. Ive discussed this at depth with multiple devs even one from codies when they came to my college(i asked about how the licensing for cars in games work) about a year ago.

Its possible, its just more expensive
 
It's been a while since Codemasters have made a cricket game, so I'm betting the former Evolution Studios team will be working on a groundbreaking new Cricket series, BatClub, with DriveClub graphics, in-game clubs, licensed bats, balls... cups.


But seriously, I'm real happy for the team. Glad to hear they've got a future with Codemasters, hopefully it won't be too long until we hear what they're up to!
 
I had lost a lot of respect for Codemasters after they released a couple low quality titles a few years ago, but after giving the Grid fans what they wanted with Grid Autosport , a drastic improvement of the F1 series with F1 2015 on the current consoles, the exceptional quality of DiRT Rally, and now acquiring Evolution studios, I have to say that they are once again one of my favorite developers! :D
 
I've got mixed feelings about Codemasters + Evolution Studios marriage, but after thinking more about it I'm rather happy that things turn out this way :) With some titles Codies let me down, but even in those titles there was always some level of quality that they never went below 👍 It's great to see Evo will have freedom in making games and... awesome that they didn't end up with EA :D Especially after what they did to Criterion and Burnout series :)
 
brownninja97
The problem with a new TOCA style game is the massive increase in series based license prices. Ive discussed this at depth with multiple devs even one from codies when they came to my college(i asked about how the licensing for cars in games work) about a year ago.

Its possible, its just more expensive
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I thought it was the BTCC license that was extremely difficult and expensive to get? There are so many other series from which they can probably get the license cheaper or they could license a car directly from a manufacturer and license to make a fictional touring car of it as well. That would be a lot less expensive and it would create a welth of extra freedom.
 
The way they did it in GAS is pretty good for me. You have fictional named series (based on a real series) containing mixed real and fictional cars. You save money on licensing and get a wider variety of disciplines and cars. Win-win!

Some examples from GAS:
Touring Cat A (Brazilian Stock Car) - Peugeot & ADC (fictional
Touring Cat B (DTM) - Mercedes & Audi (not exactly the DTM cars, but close in performance)
Touring Cat C (BTCC) - Honda, BMW, Chevrolet, Ford
Super Tourers (Aussie V8 Supercars) - Ford & Holden
Endurance Group 2 (FIA GT3) - McLaren, Aston Martin, Audi, Mercedes
Endurance Group 1 (Super GT) - Nissan, Honda + McLaren F1 (DLC shoehorned in)
Formula C (Dallara GP3)
Formula B (A1GP)
Formula A (Dallara Indycar)
 
Am I correct in assuming that Sony own Driveclub and all of its content? Or have they licensed the use of the code/game engine etc from Evolution studios.

I am mainly referring to the circuits as it would be nice if these, including revised version and more like them surfaced in future games. What about content that wasn't yet released?

If Evolution still own all the coding/game engine etc, then releasing a new game wouldn't necessarily take that long ... would it?
 
They would likely use Codemasters new engine, as a team it would allow them all to work together under one base. All Driveclub content is owned by the publisher which was Sony.
 
Akwaaba
Am I correct in assuming that Sony own Driveclub and all of its content? Or have they licensed the use of the code/game engine etc from Evolution studios.

I am mainly referring to the circuits as it would be nice if these, including revised version and more like them surfaced in future games. What about content that wasn't yet released?

If Evolution still own all the coding/game engine etc, then releasing a new game wouldn't necessarily take that long ... would it?
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Driveclub is Sony's Intellectual Property so no, Evolution don't own any of the assets.
 

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