F1 2015 Testing

  • Thread starter mikeerfol
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TRGTspecialist
In this context it means that high g-forces were experienced directly by the driver - which would be the case if the car is relatively intact (and hence hasn't absorbed much energy).

the FIA are now investigating this incident, and if they find McLaren have outright lied about multiple parts of this incident, something that concerns driver safety, this would be incredibly serious.
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If you says that you believe that that McLaren struck a wall in a crash able to generate forces capable to send a driver to the hospital for 3 days (and also, at least, to one week rest at home).
And if you also says that you believe that the press release is a copy/paste of the report of the accident from McLaren to FIA.

Then for me something is very clear now:

- Or you are a little kid without any experience of life and oblivious of the consequences, for an F1, of a crash.

- Or you are a troll.

Anyway, whatever the case, I`m very sorry, but I have no time to waste arguing with you.

Bye, bye.
 
No need to go down there MSN. Very odd things happen and we must keep an open mind until we get hard facts. Let's hope the FIA gets them from McLaren.

There's one scenario, IMHO, that can be consistent with a concussion from Alonso with litle visible damage to the front suspension.

And that scenario is as follows:

1 - Alonso, possibly because he is not fully focused and in a slow-down lap, loses grip on the outside and the unbalanced car points inwards and shoots accross the track to the inside of the corner, heading for the wall.

2- Alonso tries to correct and manages some of it, but the car leaves the tarmac and enters the dirt anyway, where Alonso can't do much more

3 - Due to driver correction, the car's trajectory towards the wall is altered, and the car itself rotates in a way that makes it hit the wall with some violence but not head on, not with the front (right) wheel, and not even fully sideways ... it's the REAR (RIGHT) WHEEL first! And there's the 30G impact.

4 - Immediately after (thousandths of a second) and because of the dynamics of this first impact, the car snaps (not sure if right word) and there goes the front wheel to the wall too, in what is mostly a fully sideways impact. And there's your 15G event.

5 - After these two consecutive blows, Alonso goes "PUFF" and the car keeps going, glued to the wall, until it stops.


So, the way see it, this is the only plausible scenario for a visually (mostly) undamaged front, after a supposed 30G frontal impact that sent a driver 3 days to hospital, followed by a lengthy rest at home.

It's the "Rear wheel first" hipothesis! copyright, Hun200kmh :D
 
MonSpaNur
If you says that you believe that that McLaren struck a wall in a crash able to generate forces capable to send a driver to the hospital for 3 days (and also, at least, to one week rest at home).
And if you also says that you believe that the press release is a copy/paste of the report of the accident from McLaren to FIA.

Then for me something is very clear now:

- Or you are a little kid without any experience of life and oblivious of the consequences, for an F1, of a crash.

- Or you are a troll.

Anyway, whatever the case, I`m very sorry, but I have no time to waste arguing with you.

Bye, bye.
Click to expand...

Well I think the forces can be generated very easy with a sideways crash on a hard, unforgiving surface like the inside of turn 3 without really damaging the car/suspension. Simply physics. What should absorb the crash when the tire hits the wall sideways with a suspension that is build to hold strong vertical forces? On the pictures you can clearly see the car loses a part of the rim which shows that there was a side impact. The wall behaves pretty different from a tirewall so just because it looks unusual to you doesn't mean it is not possible.

Edit: Damn, too slow. Basically a short version of the post above
 
TRGTspecialist
Significant lateral impact does not mean "really fast crash that destroyed the car with bits flying everywhere". In this context it means that high g-forces were experienced directly by the driver - which would be the case if the car is relatively intact (and hence hasn't absorbed much energy). And one of the most likely ways this could happen surely is a side-on impact with a concrete wall - not necessarily at very high speed either.
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I know what you mean, I've never mentioned bits flying everywhere. We have to keep in mind that even in the rare case of a perfectly parallel crash with a wall, there's not only the force coming from one of the sides (in this case the right one). This is the case of a crash test for example, when the car is stationary and gets hit only by a force coming from a 90° angle. In the case of an actual accident there's also a longitudinal force, in this case going from the front to the back of the car. So, a suspension hitting a wall (I repeat, even in the case of perfectly parallel crash) is subjected mainly to the aforementioned 90° force, but also to a longitudinal force pushing it towards the rear of the car. The tire/wheel remains "compressed" into the wall for a fraction of a second and meanwhile the car still has the momentum that pushes it onwards (in this case also visible by the car still moving forward into the grass, maybe in neutral, after the impact). That's what causes suspensions ruptures or crooked wishbones, not necessarily bits flying everywhere.
It's not easy to explain only with words, especially if english isn't your mother language. Sorry if it's unclear then.
As said before, is easy to think at those situations at the last chicane in Montreal or at Sainte-Devote in Monaco.
That's why it's really strange that the tire, the wheel and the wishbones look absolutely fine from that picture of Alonso's car.

TRGTspecialist
I want to emphasise again, if you think McLaren are covering something up there is two ways they could have gone about it - say nothing, or lie. Assume they've done the latter - the FIA are now investigating this incident, and if they find McLaren have outright lied about multiple parts of this incident, something that concerns driver safety, this would be incredibly serious. Why on earth would they do this over just keeping quiet?
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I don't know if McLaren lied. If they didn't, one of these things happened;
- He really had a significant lateral impact. It's strange they revealed a lot of details about the accident but not the speed he was carrying and the G-forces of the crash. Anyway, let's say that significant means enough to cause all the problems Alonso had. In this case the car should have been unbelievably strong to appear like that, especially its suspensions and wishbones, for the reasons mentioned above. Possible but really, really unlikely.
-He had a reasonably gentle touch with the wall, strong enough to detach only the rear suspension. We know that human body isn't a machine, so it's not a lot relevant to compare this crash to others from the past with unharmed drivers. But in this case, from what appears from the car, a lot of unlucky circumstances of any sort would've caused Alonso's concussion, even the slightest one.

Anyway, it seems that there is a footage of the crash that hasn't been made public. If it will, things will be more clear. Even more than FIA investigations, which sometimes are questionable to say the least. (I don't want it, but I'm speaking like a conspiracy theorist again :))
 
Hun200kmh
It's the "Rear wheel first" hipothesis! copyright, Hun200kmh :D
Click to expand...

I detected some inconsistencies in your theory.

3 - Due to driver correction, the car's trajectory towards the wall is altered, and the car itself rotates in a way that makes it hit the wall with some violence but not head on, not with the front (right) wheel, and not even fully sideways ... it's the REAR (RIGHT) WHEEL first! And there's the 30G impact.
Click to expand...

The rear wheel did not detached from the car and it should in a impact with two forces at play, forward and sideways, capable of generate 30g.

4 - Immediately after (thousandths of a second) and because of the dynamics of this first impact, the car snaps (not sure if right word) and there goes the front wheel to the wall too, in what is mostly a fully sideways impact. And there's your 15G event.
Click to expand...

The front wing was torn from the car and it shouldn't, because it did not impacted with the wall (the grass in a modern track, like Barcelona, is usually to smooth to do so).

5 - After these two consecutive blows, Alonso goes "PUFF" and the car keeps going, glued to the wall, until it stops.
Click to expand...

After what you have described, the car should keeps going pointing towards the track, not glued to the wall.
 
MonSpaNur
If you says that you believe that that McLaren struck a wall in a crash able to generate forces capable to send a driver to the hospital for 3 days (and also, at least, to one week rest at home).
And if you also says that you believe that the press release is a copy/paste of the report of the accident from McLaren to FIA.

Then for me something is very clear now:

- Or you are a little kid without any experience of life and oblivious of the consequences, for an F1, of a crash.

- Or you are a troll.

Anyway, whatever the case, I`m very sorry, but I have no time to waste arguing with you.

Bye, bye.
Click to expand...

No need to dismiss an opinion in such a fashion. Let's all keep this in mind.
 
Force India garage looks desolate.

B-wX38DW8AAEL4B.jpg:large

* Forgot they will be ready tomorrow.
 
Times at 1205:
1. Lewis Hamilton - Mercedes - 1:24.831 - 42 laps
2. Felipe Massa - Williams - 1:25.763 - 29 laps
3. Daniil Kvyat - Red Bull - 1:25.947 - 34 laps
4. Romain Grosjean - Lotus - 1:27.079 - 33 laps
5. Marcus Ericsson - Sauber - 1:27.802 - 33 laps
6. Kimi Raikkonen - Ferrari - 1:27.813 - 28 laps
7. Carlos Sainz - Toro Rosso - 1:27.866 - 34 laps
8. Jenson Button - McLaren - 1:31.479- 7 laps


Times at 1300:
1. Lewis Hamilton - Mercedes - 1:24.881 - 48 laps
2. Felipe Massa - Williams - 1:25.763 - 29 laps
3. Daniil Kvyat - Red Bull - 1:25.947 - 45 laps
4. Romain Grosjean - Lotus - 1:27.079 - 33 laps
5. Marcus Ericsson - Sauber - 1:27.802 - 33 laps
6. Kimi Raikkonen - Ferrari - 1:27.813 - 28 laps
7. Carlos Sainz - Toro Rosso - 1:27.866 - 34 laps
8. Jenson Button - McLaren - 1:31.479- 7 laps
 
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Gil de Ferran has advised Fernando Alonso not to return too soon. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/31627619

Dennis: "Alonso lost consciousness" [during or after the incident?]: http://www.crash.net/f1/news/215067...-consciousness-but-is-physically-perfect.html

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/201...fRGF0ZVRpbWUlN0MxJk49Mjk4MSs0Mjk0OTY3Mjc5KzQy
The world governing body of motorsport is to probe the mysterious crash that put Formula One superstar Fernando Alonso in hospital for three days and has ruled him out of the final test before the season-opening Australian Grand Prix in two weeks.

Speculation has been rife in F1 circles that Alonso may have suffered an electric shock and been unconscious before the new Honda-powered McLaren MP4-30 crashed at Barcelona’s Circuit de Catalunya on Sunday.

However, McLaren has denied that, claiming the 33-year-old dual world champion was applying full brake pressure and changing down gears trying to slow the car “right up to the moment of impact”.

“No electrical discharge or irregularity of any kind occurred in the car’s ERS (energy recovery system), either before, during or after the incident,” McLaren said.

Sebastian Vettel, who has replaced Alonso at Ferrari this season, was following Alonso at the time and said he was not going very fast, perhaps about 150km where normally an F1 car might do 240kmh, and that the crash was “strange”.

McLaren said the talk that Alonso was unconscious before the crash because of an electrical fault was “simply not true”. It blamed a freak gust of wind for causing the crash.

The Federation Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA) which governs world motorsport does not automatically review crashes in F1 testing but has chosen to investigate Alonso’s after he spent three nights in hospital with what was said to have been only concussion and then was ruled out of driving the MP4-30 this week.

“We will be looking very carefully at what happened,” an FIA spokesman said.

“We want to know what took place, so we will be gathering all the information that we can.”

Alonso’s manager, Luis Garcia Abad, posted a photo of a smiling Alonso sitting up in bed on Monday and said that there was no cause for concern about his condition.

McLaren racing director Eric Boullier had said the crash was “just one of those things that happens in testing”.

However, Autosport’s GP editor Jonathan Noble has written that “uncertainty has been exacerbated by McLaren not making public data about the speed of what is believed to be two impacts with the wall, nor of the G-forces that Alonso experienced”.
 
Well when Perez got a Concussion back in 2011 after crashing in Monaco, he needed an extra week off because he was getting Dizzy after a few laps in Practise the next week in Canada.

Perez's crash was more serious but he did get a Concussion from a Side hit Alonso's may be at similar level just he got it in a Awkward way.
 
Hitting a concrete wall the way Alonso did (side impact) is a very hard hit, no matter the speed, as they can create very high g-forces and the cars and barriers do not give as much. Kyle Pettys NASCAR crash at Bristol is a perfect example: (Skip to 0:57,and watch the 45 car)

The crash was 80gs: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2003-03-31-petty-crash_x.htm

A good solution to prevent high g-forces from these crashes is installing the SAFER Barrier, as it absorbs some of the energy while concrete barriers do not.
 
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Times at 1700:
1. Nico Rosberg - Mercedes - 1:22.792 - 89 laps
2. Valtteri Bottas - Williams - 1:23.995 - 88 laps
3. Felipe Nasr - Sauber - 1:24.071 - 129 laps
4. Sebastian Vettel - Ferrari - 1:25.339 - 126 laps
5. Jenson Button - McLaren - 1:25.550 - 92 laps
6. Max Verstappen - Toro Rosso - 1:26.766 - 135 laps
7. Daniil Kvyat - Red Bull - 1:26.965 - 65 laps
8. Pastor Maldonado - Lotus - 1:28.013 - 123 laps
9. Nico Hulkenberg - Force India - 1:29.287 - 53 laps
 
Half an hour later, McLaren looks good on softs and Rosberg does a first run on softs. Seems...fast :D

1. Rosberg Mercedes 1:22.792m
2. Bottas Williams 1:23.995m
3. Nasr Sauber 1:24.071m
4. Vettel Ferrari 1:25.339m
5. Button McLaren 1:25.590m
6. Verstappen Toro Rosso 1:26.766m
7. Kvyat Red Bull 1:26.965m
8. Maldonado Lotus 1:28.013m
9. Hülkenberg Force India 1:28.847m


edit: Mercedes must be very confident. They didn't even order Supersoft tires for the Barcelona test
 
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Times at 1500
1. Felipe Massa - Williams - 1:23.262 - 73 laps
2. Kimi Raikkonen - Ferrari - 1:23.276 - 86 laps
3. Marcus Ericsson - Sauber - 1:24.477 - 60 laps
4. Nico Hulkenberg - Force India - 1:24.939 - 86 laps
5. Kevin Magnussen - McLaren - 1:25.225 - 38 laps
6. Lewis Hamilton - Mercedes - 1:25.471 - 36 laps
7. Daniel Ricciardo - Red Bull - 1:25.742 - 77 laps
8. Carlos Sainz - Toro Rosso - 1:26.330 - 66 laps
9. Romain Grosjean - Lotus - 1:27.950 - 51 laps
 
psychoazubi
Half an hour later, McLaren looks good on softs and Rosberg does a first run on softs. Seems...fast :D

1. Rosberg Mercedes 1:22.792m
2. Bottas Williams 1:23.995m
3. Nasr Sauber 1:24.071m
4. Vettel Ferrari 1:25.339m
5. Button McLaren 1:25.590m
6. Verstappen Toro Rosso 1:26.766m
7. Kvyat Red Bull 1:26.965m
8. Maldonado Lotus 1:28.013m
9. Hülkenberg Force India 1:28.847m


edit: Mercedes must be very confident. They didn't even order Supersoft tires for the Barcelona test
Click to expand...

Rosberg claimed the set up was still far off for his liking and that they/ he knew it could improve with a bit of work.
 
Times at close
1. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:23.022 76 laps
2. Felipe Massa Williams 1:23.262 102 laps
3. Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1:23.276 136 laps
4. Carlos Sainz Toro Rosso 1:24.191 132 laps
5. Romain Grosjean Lotus 1:24.200 116 laps
6. Marcus Ericsson Sauber 1:24.477 123 laps
7. Nico Hulkenberg Force India 1:24.939 158 laps
8. Kevin Magnussen McLaren 1:25.225 38 laps
9. Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull 1:25.742 128 laps
Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/192975.html#3ABZdqPIYEfZ2viJ.99
 
Ferrari and Williams are the only two solidly in the 1:23's with Mercedes. And they within 1.5 seconds of Lotus...besides the car started off being 20+ seconds slower than everything. Mclaren has really made that car better.
 
sems4arsenal
By being way slower than Mercedes for starters and slower than the best of the rest.
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It's testing, you have no way of knowing their program. Which seems to be reliability runs due to the numerous amount of small issues they have. Testing times don't tell us anything, if they did Kimi should have won the WDC last year for being fastest at a test last year. The only reason Mercedes is an exception to this rule is due to the sheer speed they've ran and purposely trying to now do performance runs after showing they have great reliability as well as the other Mercedes backed teams, today FI did something massive, by running the greatest distance of any single test day seen in 2015.

catamount39
Ferrari and Williams are the only two solidly in the 1:23's with Mercedes. And they within 1.5 seconds of Lotus...besides the car started off being 20+ seconds slower than everything. Mclaren has really made that car better.
Click to expand...

On super soft tires...that doesn't mean anything once again. Also Mercedes ran their fastest tie with an experimental set up
 
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