F1 track wishlist threadFormula 1

[SlowGrayAudi]

With so many tracks that just aren't great for close racing (coupled with terrible regulations)

What tracks would you want to see on the calendar?

And would what tracks would you want removed?

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

I would remove

Spain
Monaco
France

I would add

Aragon
Korea
Mugello
Imola
Road Atlanta
Sachsenring (just flows so well)

 

[HaydenFan69]

I only got to Paul Ricard before I was limited. Haven't tried the Vietnam circuit on F12020, but I suspect that will be just as bad as Baku and Sochi. I'd dump Shanghai as well.

Agree with Barcelona, Aragon would make a great Spanish GP. Or going back to Jerez. Though with these limos of F1 cars, I'm not sure a short, tight circuit would lead to anything better than what we saw today. Am really interested in how Mugello works out this season.

If a street circuit in America would work, I think Belle Isle would be a possible choice. Though the bumps there are what make the IndyCar race so entertaining. And we know F1 would ask for a complete repave.

 

[mustafur]

Catalunya, Sochi, Paul Ricard and Yas Marina.

None of these tracks are worth having on the Calendar.

 

[Frank McGank]

I really don’t get the hate for Paul Ricard.

.. correction, I do: it’s not Magny Cours. Most F1 fans are under the age of 30, so the F1 of their youth was the V10/early V8 era when they raced on MC. So they all want to relive their childhood by having the French GP go back there, despite the fact the entire reason it was dropped in the first place is because fans and drivers alike universally hated it.

 

[mustafur]

I really don’t get the hate for Paul Ricard.

.. correction, I do: it’s not Magny Cours. Most F1 fans are under the age of 30, so the F1 of their youth was the V10/early V8 era when they raced on MC. So they all want to relive their childhood by having the French GP go back there, despite the fact the entire reason it was dropped in the first place is because fans and drivers alike universally hated it.

I don't want to drop a track for another french track, I want it gone because it's just a bad track.

I do think Magny Cours would work alright with the current regs(it actually has a hairpin on the end of a straight) but thats a different story.

 

[Frank McGank]

I don't want to drop a track for another french track, I want it gone because it's just a bad track.

I do think Magny Cours would work alright with the current regs(it actually has a hairpin on the end of a straight) but thats a different story.

Paul Ricard is a classic on the F1 calendar and in both years since its return has had more on-track action than roughly half the other circuits on. People have been looking for excuses to hate it since the GP was announced, long before drivers even turned a wheel on the bloody track. I guarantee had the events of the 2019 German GP happened there instead, people would be saying “look at how many drivers aquaplaned off and were taken out of contention due to no fault of their own! The constant safety car meant we never got to see any real racing, it was a total snoozer. This circuit is rubbish and needs to go.” Then go back to singing the praises of Albert Park, despite it routinely being a procession AND having an uninspired Mickey Mouse layout.

and no. Every hard braking point on MC is preceded by a high speed sweeping turn or a set of them. The exact issue Catalunya has. GT3 and Formula Renault have issues with on-track action and overtaking there, what in god’s name makes you think F1 will be any different? It’s a good motorcycle and TC circuit, but nothing more. People wanting it back is just blind nostalgia, something people have been increasingly obsessing over for the last 5 or so years. Same reason people are unironically saying the V10 era was the best and are pushing Mick Schumacher through the junior ranks.

 

[HaydenFan69]

How does a country with so much motorsports history be so lacking in any decent motorsports circuits? I remember someone made the Dijon circuit on rFactor, and I liked that circuit, but that isn't happening for F1. Maybe Le Mans Bugatti circuit would work? The issue many have with Paul Ricard isn't that actual circuit itself, it's the fact that it has become this parking lot with a race track carved through it. Which was odd, as the circuit didn't have a history of being something dangerous.

 

[Frank McGank]

How does a country with so much motorsports history be so lacking in any decent motorsports circuits? I remember someone made the Dijon circuit on rFactor, and I liked that circuit, but that isn't happening for F1. Maybe Le Mans Bugatti circuit would work? The issue many have with Paul Ricard isn't that actual circuit itself, it's the fact that it has become this parking lot with a race track carved through it. Which was odd, as the circuit didn't have a history of being something dangerous.

Because in 2001 it was modified to be primarily a testing circuit. All the old gravel/sand runoffs understandably were unsuitable for car testing because it would destroy cars that had an off. It’s not dramatically different from the likes of Bahrain and COTA in terms of paved runoff space, and nobody complains about those. In fact, the former generally is the least hated of the middle eastern circuits and the latter is generally regarded as one of the best Tilke designs. “It’s not Magny Cours” is all it is. People too young to properly remember it want to bring back F1 circa 2002, but don’t realise just how **** that era was. Easily the second worst era in the history of the sport in terms of predictability, and THE worst in terms of on-track excitement.
But no. “I want Mick Schumacher to join Ferrari!” “McLaren should be silver and black with a Mercedes engine!” “Bring back refuelling!” “The cars are too wide, 1.8m was perfect.” “V10s sounded the best” “Sepang and Magny Cours are classic circuits and should be brought back.” “The 2004 Williams is the prettiest F1 car ever made.” “Renault should incorporate blue into their livery” “Tarmac runoff is bad and drivers should be punished for going off, bring back gravel traps. They’re safer!” “Honestly I think Tilke’s modifications to Hockenheim improved the circuit” “Maybe grooved tyres would make the racing better?”

 

[mustafur]

Paul Ricard is a classic on the F1 calendar and in both years since its return has had more on-track action than roughly half the other circuits on. People have been looking for excuses to hate it since the GP was announced, long before drivers even turned a wheel on the bloody track. I guarantee had the events of the 2019 German GP happened there instead, people would be saying “look at how many drivers aquaplaned off and were taken out of contention due to no fault of their own! The constant safety car meant we never got to see any real racing, it was a total snoozer. This circuit is rubbish and needs to go.” Then go back to singing the praises of Albert Park, despite it routinely being a procession AND having an uninspired Mickey Mouse layout.

and no. Every hard braking point on MC is preceded by a high speed sweeping turn or a set of them. The exact issue Catalunya has. GT3 and Formula Renault have issues with on-track action and overtaking there, what in god’s name makes you think F1 will be any different? It’s a good motorcycle and TC circuit, but nothing more. People wanting it back is just blind nostalgia, something people have been increasingly obsessing over for the last 5 or so years. Same reason people are unironically saying the V10 era was the best and are pushing Mick Schumacher through the junior ranks.

Different eras different regulations, I'm indifferent to Magny Cours coming back but it's not the same as Catalunya and has a Hairpin that can easily provide a passing opportunity at Turn 5:

I'm not a fan of Paul Ricard because its a sea of run off, track isn't that interesting as a layout and the passing that did happen had track limit issues or Too much DRS strength to make it more natural.

Nostalgia or not(I actually watched races at Magny Cours when they happened) I do think it would work better then Paul Ricard, the first 3 turns would probably be close to flat with these cars too.

 

[Frank McGank]

Different eras different regulations, I'm indifferent to Magny Cours coming back but it's not the same as Catalunya and has a Hairpin that can easily provide a passing opportunity at Turn 5:

View attachment 950356

I'm not a fan of Paul Ricard because its a sea of run off, track isn't that interesting as a layout and the passing that did happen had track limit issues or Too much DRS strength to make it more natural.

Nostalgia or not(I actually watched races at Magny Cours when they happened) I do think it would work better then Paul Ricard, the first 3 turns would probably be close to flat with these cars too.

Look at the turn complex before the hairpin into T5. Drivers currently have a hard time sticking close enough through the last turn at Catalunya to be able to get an overtake done into T1. In what world would that problem not be 10x worse through a high speed 180° turn immediately preceded by a high speed 90°? You’re making nonsense arguments, you know.

“sea of runoff” so is Bahrain, COTA, Istanbul Park, Fuji, Mexico City, and Spa, yet no complaints about them. Curious, that.

“too much reliance on DRS for overtakes” you say that like 95% of overtakes aren’t because of DRS. At this point you’re nitpicking.

“I remember the races at MC” but clearly don’t remember how it was one of the worst processions on the calendar, how fans called it boring and was extremely difficult to get to, and how drivers hated it because they couldn’t overtake and it had no flow, and how literally everyone celebrated when it was off the calendar. You SAY you don’t have a preference and aren’t viewing it through a nostalgia lens, but the arguments you’re making are so nonsensical and obviously biased that it can’t be anything but.

 

[mustafur]

Look at the turn complex before the hairpin into T5. Drivers currently have a hard time sticking close enough through the last turn at Catalunya to be able to get an overtake done into T1. In what world would that problem not be 10x worse through a high speed 180° turn immediately preceded by a high speed 90°? You’re making nonsense arguments, you know.

“sea of runoff” so is Bahrain, COTA, Istanbul Park, Fuji, Mexico City, and Spa, yet no complaints about them. Curious, that.

“too much reliance on DRS for overtakes” you say that like 95% of overtakes aren’t because of DRS. At this point you’re nitpicking.

“I remember the races at MC” but clearly don’t remember how it was one of the worst processions on the calendar, how fans called it boring and was extremely difficult to get to, and how drivers hated it because they couldn’t overtake and it had no flow, and how literally everyone celebrated when it was off the calendar. You SAY you don’t have a preference and aren’t viewing it through a nostalgia lens, but the arguments you’re making are so nonsensical and obviously biased that it can’t be anything but.

Are you going to provide some evidence other then boomer drivel?

Your poor comparison to Catalunya says it all, the tracks are next to nothing alike, sure high speed turns do spread out the gap a bit, but with modern F1 cars having, much softer slick tyres with more mechanical grip and an actual tight corner(that clearly is more then 90°) there would be passing and DRS can help that happen at the braking zone rather then a straight pass before it.

On DRS my point was people were passing before the brake zone which means it's too powerful, but F1 is forced to do that because the only pass area on the track is the chicane inbetween the two straights which isn't that tight of a chicane to allow a contested entry.

Paul Ricard is a bad track, even if they took the chicane on the straight away you got a medium speed corner at the end, perfect for 1 line racing.

Again I'm not advocating for Magny Cours but it's a better track then Paul Ricard(not that it's hard).

 

[Frank McGank]

Are you going to provide some evidence other then boomer drivel?

Your poor comparison to Catalunya says it all, the tracks are next to nothing alike, sure high speed turns do spread out the gap a bit, but with modern F1 cars having, much softer slick tyres with more mechanical grip and an actual tight corner(that clearly is more then 90°) there would be passing and DRS can help that happen at the braking zone rather then a straight pass before it.

On DRS my point was people were passing before the brake zone which means it's too powerful, but F1 is forced to do that because the only pass area on the track is the chicane inbetween the two straights which isn't that tight of a chicane to allow a contested entry.

Paul Ricard is a bad track, even if they took the chicane on the straight away you got a medium speed corner at the end, perfect for 1 line racing.

Again I'm not advocating for Magny Cours but it's a better track then Paul Ricard(not that it's hard).

So you think drivers can follow nice and close through a 6th gear 180° turn when they currently can’t follow through a 4th gear 90°. Glad we cleared that up.

Again, that applies to most overtakes in the DRS era.

“Paul Ricard is bad and MC is better, and you’re a dumb boomer for disagreeing” and there it is. Blind nostalgia completely unphased by actual driver/fan testimony and simple common sense. Just like I said, all the hate for PR is just people upset they don’t get to relive their childhood of watching Alonso and Raikkonen and Montoya and Schumacher race on Magny Cours.

 

[mustafur]

I think a fast sweeper keeps cars closer then a slow chicane that spaces everyone out of their acceleration zone yes, Silverstone is a good example of this as out of Maggots and Becketts the hanger straight despite being about half the length of Magny Cours straight is long enough to provide an opportunity into Stowe and Vale.

The chicane at the end of Catalunya just spaces out everyone and because they are not going fast enough for an effective draft untill they are well down the main straight the overtaking opportunity is minimised.

 

[Frank McGank]

I think a fast sweeper keeps cars closer then a slow chicane that spaces everyone out of their acceleration zone yes, Silverstone is a good example of this as out of Maggots and Becketts the hanger straight despite being about half the length of Magny Cours straight is long enough to provide an opportunity into Stowe and Vale.

The chicane at the end of Catalunya just spaces out everyone and because they are not going fast enough for an effective draft untill they are well down the main straight the overtaking opportunity is minimised.

Maggots-Becketts are also flat out minor kinks and have been for a long time, and Chapel just needs a tap of the brakes. And if you look closely, you’ll notice that they’re also not 180° turns. To again use Catalunya; T3 and T9. They’re essentially flat these days, and guess why no overtakes happen in the ensuing braking zones. To quote the drivers: “we lose all grip in the front if we’re too close behind”, meaning they can’t be close enough to get along side in the next braking zone. It still amazes me that you think cars will be able to stay close to each other through a sustained 130mph loooong 180° turn.

“Fast sweepers keep cars closer together than tight chicanes” I guess that’s why all the overtakes at Suzuka happen through the Esses and Degner?

 

[mustafur]

Maggots-Becketts are also flat out minor kinks and have been for a long time, and Chapel just needs a tap of the brakes. And if you look closely, you’ll notice that they’re also not 180° turns. To again use Catalunya; T3 and T9. They’re essentially flat these days, and guess why no overtakes happen in the ensuing braking zones. To quote the drivers: “we lose all grip in the front if we’re too close behind”, meaning they can’t be close enough to get along side in the next braking zone. It still amazes me that you think cars will be able to stay close to each other through a sustained 130mph loooong 180° turn.

“Fast sweepers keep cars closer together than tight chicanes” I guess that’s why all the overtakes at Suzuka happen through the Esses and Degner?

Dirty air is dirty air and both examples you provided have small straights compared to Magny Cours.

Yes those sections are fast at Silverstone but dirty air is still in play and Magny Cours Turn 3 would also be fast with these cars, it would space but with a huge straight and cars already at the speed for effective draft there wouldn't be an issue for overtaking especially when you include DRS.

Using Suzuka as an example is terrible because the overtaking part comes after the straight then the actual chicane, you can't compare that to Catalunya which has no effective overtaking zone before the Chicane and spaces them out as they leave.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Silverstone is a good example of this as out of Maggots and Becketts the hanger straight despite being about half the length of Magny Cours straight

I'm not too sure where you got those numbers, Magny-Cours' straight is ~950m long, while Hangar straight is ~800m. Silverstone is a very long circuit and it's only because it looks like half of the circuit's "width" does it look shorter. Maggotts and Becketts is one of those odd sections of track where theoretically it should spread the cars out but for some reason it doesn't. It think it's because the section is wide and fast enough as a set of chicanes that drivers can take different lines when following to get better exits.

Magny-Cours historically always produced boring races, mainly because the only overtaking spot is preceded by 3 really high-speed corners. Turn 3 is too long and really does only have 1 line. That said, it was one of the "boring" tracks I liked and was sad to see go. A bit like Singapore and Monza, it's likely to be a bad race but you don't want to get rid of it.

 

[mustafur]

I'm not too sure where you got those numbers, Magny-Cours' straight is ~950m long, while Hangar straight is ~800m. Silverstone is a very long circuit and it's only because it looks like half of the circuit's "width" does it look shorter. Maggotts and Becketts is one of those odd sections of track where theoretically it should spread the cars out but for some reason it doesn't. It think it's because the section is wide and fast enough as a set of chicanes that drivers can take different lines when following to get better exits.

Magny-Cours historically always produced boring races, mainly because the only overtaking spot is preceded by 3 really high-speed corners. Turn 3 is too long and really does only have 1 line. That said, it was one of the "boring" tracks I liked and was sad to see go. A bit like Singapore and Monza, it's likely to be a bad race but you don't want to get rid of it.

I don't think it was that good of a track either, but I think it would be a better track for the DRS era then back then just for that Turn 5 zone(which can be interesting if its two wide on exit).

The main point is Paul Ricard is a terrible track, France doesn't really have a good collection of tracks despite the history of racing, I think Bugatti Circuit would probably be worse then even Paul Ricard.

Time to make a new one.

 

[MaxAttack]

France has a well-earned reputation for Motorsport, but bears the scars of a change in era. Many of the famous public road courses of early motorsports history were in France and the country became a hub for the pursuit. Even GTS nod at this with their "Alsace village" track, a clear, if slightly odd, nod to the legacy of French road racing. This is why we think of France as a great racing nation but they lack modern tracks, as over the years public road racing has become less and less viable.

Paul Ricard isn't the worst layout, but I find it lacks any clear merits or distinctive features - aside from the infamous blue lines - it's a very flat track and there isn't much in the way of dramatic scenery. I (very unpopular opinion warning) really don't like Spa as a circuit but I can't deny the setting is very romantic. PR lacks that and it doesn't help that it doesn't have any big recognisable section like the Suzuka esses or somesuch.

I believe the French will sort it out one day. The love of motorsport is very alive over there, I'm sure they would hate to lose the French GP with Renault, Ocon, Gasly and LeClerc (who I am sure they readily claim as their own) all in the sport right now.

As for @Frank McGank and his ramblings, well, it's true we look at the past through rose tinted glasses. But i feel you are using this Magny Cours sticking point to project your disdain for F1 fans in many other ways, which seems rather rude. No one was talking about grooved tyres or Mick Schumacher.

 

[Roger the Horse]

Magny-Cours was always one of the tracks where the speed the cars were travelling at was best communicated in the television broadcast. Same thing with Suzuka.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Get rid of:
Paul Ricard
Sochi
Catalunya
COTA
Hockenheim
Bahrain

Add:
Valencia Street circuit
Sepang
Buddh
Nurburgring
Istanbul Park
Bugatti Circuit (hey if we're gonna have a dull race in France, may as well be at a historic circuit with a higher mistake potential)

I would suggest Portimao but let's wait and see what it is like first. Same with Vietnam.

Paul Ricard has potential if they just used a different layout.

E.g.

The bits in blue are where I would have the circuit go. Go the full length of the Mistral into a tighter kink then a hairpin, and a tighter turn 1-2 complex leading into a tighter complex before the straight.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Modern Hockenheim is one of the best circuits in the world for wheel-to-wheel racing. Getting rid of it for any reason other than financial is a stupid decision.

 

[mustafur]

I think a big question the people in charge of F1 have to make is the responsibility of a good show, I understand the need to expand to new markets but it also has to be balanced with good race tracks that consistently provide a better race.

To deviate too far from this can do long term damage to the brand, it's next to impossible to ensure regulations that mix up the front consistently but track selection is fully within their power.

 

[Jezza819]

Get rid of:
Paul Ricard
Sochi
Catalunya
COTA
Hockenheim
Bahrain

Add:
Valencia Street circuit
Sepang
Buddh
Nurburgring
Istanbul Park
Bugatti Circuit (hey if we're gonna have a dull race in France, may as well be at a historic circuit with a higher mistake potential)

Istanbul might be actually happening.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...-widget&ic_medium=widget&ic_campaign=widget-1

 

[LeGeNd-1]

My favourite race in every season is always Monaco. Even if there is no overtaking, just watching the cars go around such a ridiculous place is always a treat. I guess I'm a minority but in my view we should go to tracks that are fun to drive on, has good scenery and provide a diverse set of challenge throughout the season. Forget overtaking ability - F1 is never going to be NASCAR or BTCC. High downforce and the speeds that they're going means the racing will never be close. Some tracks will naturally be more conducive to overtaking than others, nothing wrong with that as long as the track has some other USP up its sleeve.

I would remove Barcelona, Paul Ricard and Sochi. Keeping it in the same countries (disregarding FIA track grades), replace with Jarama, Pau/Charade/La Sarthe and Igora Drive/Smolensk Ring. Also bring back old Hockenheim and full Peraltada. One can dream.

Need ideas? Happy hunting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_racing_tracks

 

[PeterJB]

Australia - Albert Park is pretty harmless, don't expect much if it doesn't rain, but it's been the season-opener for so long that I'm used to it now, maybe a deal where it alternates with Adelaide could be interesting?

Bahrain - This circuit has been saved by moving to a night race; evidently the lower temperatures make the tyres less predictable.

Vietnam - The circuit doesn't that great, but it needs to be given a chance.

China - The circuit is good, the races are touch-and-go. If F1 decides to start being remotely consistent with their whole standing up for human rights and equality thing then the circuit needs to go.

Zandvoort - This latest emasculation by Tilke doesn't look great for overtaking, but this one of the original grands prix and it will have a festival atmosphere so long as Verstappen is around.

Catalunya - Using it for testing is fine but its no longer fit for racing.

Monaco - People love to rag on Monaco, but most races are still passable, and it deserves a permanent spot on the calendar by virtue of its heritage, legacy and glamour.

Baku - The circuit's pretty un-inventive, and Azerbaijan is renown for its motor sport heritage so this can go.

Montreal - Great circuit, good races.

Paul Ricard - France has several suitable circuits to try out that are far better than this psychedelic landing strip.

Austria - Great circuit, great races.

Hockenheimring - This circuit never should have been dropped over something as petty as money when the races are always a knockout.

Silverstone - The home of F1. The races aren't always the best but the party atmosphere more than makes up for that.

Hungary - The circuit is great, the races are touch and go but as the only grand prix in Eastern Europe it should stay.

Spa - Deserves and permanent spot on the calendar.

Monza - Also deserves a permanent spot on the calendar.

Singapore - The unique setting and the basically guaranteed safety cars gives this a safe spot on the calendar.

Sochi - Six years and not one good race. Bye bye.

Suzuka - Perfect circuit, can never go.

COTA - The circuit looks great, but the races are not quite good enough to not warrant some of the many other options in the US.

Mexico - Great circuit, great races, it would be even better if the final sector hadn't been Tilked.

Brazil - A* circuit, A* races.

Abu Dhabi - Non-season finale races here have rarely been good, but I'm willing to keep it because the setting is great and the circuit itself is pretty decent.


Here's my ideal, geographically-considerate season calendar:

Australia - Alternating each year between Albert Park and Adelaide. Better yet, if it wasn't FIA grade 3 then Mount Panorama.

Malaysia - Under no circumstances should Sepang have been dropped, and it needs to be slap bang in the middle of monsoon season where it belongs.

Singapore - Monsoon season at night sounds like fun.

Vietnam - We can give it a go but I don't think it'll last.

China

Japan

Bahrain - Not much change here, other than maybe being a bit hotter.

Abu Dhabi - This'll be much hotter than normal so maybe that will spice it up.

South Africa - There should be a race in Africa and Kyalami is the best shout.

Hungary

Austria

Italy

Germany - I liked the alternating with the Nuerburgring.

Netherlands

Belgium

France - Tbh I think La Sarthe is worth a try.

Monaco

Spain - Either Jarama or Jerez is good.

Portugal - Algarve looks like it has huge potential.

Britain - Silverstone is the perfect way to end the European leg.

Canada - Stick at Montreal, and bring the rain.

USA - COTA, Indianapolis, Road America, Watkins Glen, and Laguna Seca are all viable. Not interested in Miami.

Mexico - That banked curve needs to come back.

Brazil - Good luck finding a better season finale.