Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

[cuco33]

I have to stop reading positive CSR-E wheel comments cuz I am about to order a CSR wheel... lol

 

[WildRun]

Logi. it's better and real at 400° but you must change the Lock inside “content/system/control_presets" .
Just follow the doc.:
http://ts.thrustmaster.com/download/accessories/pc/wheels/presets/T500RS/FVA_AdrenalinePack_FerrariF1_T500.pdf

 

[LogiForce]

Logi. it's better and real at 400° but you must change the Lock inside “content/system/control_presets" .
Just follow the doc.:
http://ts.thrustmaster.com/download/accessories/pc/wheels/presets/T500RS/FVA_AdrenalinePack_FerrariF1_T500.pdf

I did in the Thrustmaster software and in the file, it just messed up the entire feel. In other words it got worse. I rather have a good feel and no torque lock, then torque lock and the feel being messed up. In other words, the tires and wheel is just turning too fast and unnatural.

EDIT: figured out what was wrong. I already had set the right preset in the configuration panel of the game, but if you don't set it again it won't load the changes in the file. -_-'

EDIT 2: Wow! Now this feels really good. Thanks guys! F1 2011 feels like childs play compared to this to be honest. In F1 2011 I always feel like I am going twice as fast then I actually should be going, which I hate about the game. With this though the speed emersion seems to be much... much closer to the real thing.
So this is based on Netkar Pro or something I read earlier. Hmmm, maybe I should try that too at some point in the future.

 

[WildRun]

Yes you should: NetKar Pro 1.3 is a must have (and FFB is even better:tup F1 Wheel Add-on is great for F.1600/F.1800/F.2000/F.Target & F.KS2 but you must also absolutely try (once in life) the "Vintage" car with GT Wheel and with angle rotation at 1080° = absolutely fantastic

 

[sandboxgod]

Your in for a good treat then, this wheel is incredible, trust us.

Mr Latte, that's what I call taking one for the team. I'm glad I didn't try that, the only paperclips I have are those mini ones good for picking locks. Here are some of my findings from last night.

I never really managed to test this wheel on PC. I got it hooked up, ready to play, and...the demo of GTR2 doesn't really like the term FFB. I just got a really tight center spring as it's "so called force-feedback" so I decided to give that a rest until I can get a full copy. I was about to exit the game when I noticed something. This wheel is recognized as it's own self now! No longer does it say "Logitech G27" under the listed game controllers, it now says "Fanatec CSR Wheel" which must mean that this and the CSR are both recognized as their own wheel. No more identity theft. Will this mean better compatibility when the CSW comes out?

With a failed attempt at PC gaming, I went out to try out GT5 on the PS3. Wow, I forgot how good the FFB effects were on this game, and they're even better on the Elite. Enough about that though, does this wheel make you faster? Well, since I've used GT5 with a wheel before, I think I'll try and beat some of my times. The first of which was a Tuned NSX-R on Grand Valley. My previous time was a 1:53.7xx. So, I grab hold of my CSR Elite and set out. Already through the first set of corners it lists me as .1xx on the split time. Good, very very good. Out through the last corner, and over the finish line I get a 1:51.3xx, over two seconds faster! Is this proof that the CSR Elite is faster than previous Porsche wheels? Quite possibly, is it proof that I've gained driving experience enough to master 2 Seconds a lap quicker than my last time in two weeks? Highly unlikely, but it's possible. Is it a combination of both? Probably, but that still means that the Elite will overall make you faster. Provided you have the skill level to achieve consistent lap times that is.

Mr Latte, what have you found about this? Have you found the Elite making faster lap times then say the previous Porsche wheels? What about the T500? I'm sure this is a big point, as a lot of people will be looking to go faster. I want to know if I just gained Skill Level, or I'm truly faster with one wheel.

I'll be doing some time trial comparisons as well but it will be tough. Problem is being able to distinguish between racing experience & switching wheels

My problem is I haven't 'peaked' on any particular course. Each time I drive 20+ laps I usually improve. When I was conducting my t500rs pedal vs CSP testing I kept finding I would gradually improve which interfered with my testing.

Another thing to consider is consistency which is a huge factor in a long race. So I think I will try to compare that as well. I would bet a lot of racers would rather sacrifice a little speed for a lot more consistency. I know in iRacing the shortest race is bout 25 minutes. So consistency is very key along with a little speed.

I just wished there was a really good way to filter out the 'experience' factor as you've noted

 

[Spagetti69]

I'm no beta tester but if I was going to compare wheels I would probably mix it up a bit.

Ovals. Nice and simple, not much room for error and you can check out the finest steering inputs at speed plus weight transfer. Should provide very similar lap times but the hardware should shine through a couple of tenths.

Forzas Autocross is an excellent way to put a wheel through a lot of punishment.
Unfortunately the T500 will not be able to be compared.

GT5's Rally, Snow physics. Rally especially known as a wheel killer.
Should be able to test drifting quite easy here I imagine.

Throw it out of the top floor window.
Always a crowd pleaser that one. Just make sure there's no one below.

Not sure for PC use sorry. Rfactor, Iracing seem the benchmark there.

Hope that helps.

 

[LogiForce]

I'm no beta tester but if I was going to compare wheels I would probably mix it up a bit.

Ovals. Nice and simple, not much room for error and you can check out the finest steering inputs at speed plus weight transfer. Should provide very similar lap times but the hardware should shine through a couple of tenths.

Forzas Autocross is an excellent way to put a wheel through a lot of punishment.
Unfortunately the T500 will not be able to be compared.

GT5's Rally, Snow physics. Rally especially known as a wheel killer.
Should be able to test drifting quite easy here I imagine.

Throw it out of the top floor window.
Always a crowd pleaser that one. Just make sure there's no one below.

Not sure for PC use sorry. Rfactor, Iracing seem the benchmark there.

Hope that helps.

Using Ferrari Virtual Academy is possible as well for benchmarking as there is telemetry in that game as well.

 

[left888]

I just wished there was a really good way to filter out the 'experience' factor

I have noticed almost all of the Elite testers are so overwhelmed with excitement that the 'experience' factor you talk of is probably the only tangible factor in determining if the Elite wheel is improving your driving or not and I mean that in a positive note.

I had to laugh at one tester who said it improved his lap times by tenth's of a second. As you said consistency is the key to good racing, at least PC racing that is. Have you ever been in a Forza or GT5 race that was longer then 3 laps (lol) Throw consistency out the window in console racing.

If the new Elite wheel feels good while driving, evokes pleasure while driving and is made of quality I think that's all you really can ask for.

 

[Mr Latte]

Actually I have to laugh at the experts here who havnt got the wheel telling people how good or bad it is, how reliable it will be and now informing those that do have it they are "overwhelmed with excitment".

As for me I stated that after spending 2 hours testing the same car in GT5 on both CSRE/T500RS wheels on two individual consoles yet only having approx 4-5 tenths of a difference in the best laptimes achieved on each wheel. Thats what happened in that particular test sorry if it wasnt more substantial. However the test was done fairly and the same amount of time given to each wheel to try and achieve a best laptime. The times may of been similar but one wheel is noticably more enjoyable to use than the other.

Sorry if people testing an Xbox platform wheel on console forums with FM4 is not good enough for some of you lot or comparing the CSRE to the T500RS in GT5 isnt floating your boat. Others including myself looking to compare cross platform games on both consoles as well. If the wheel shines well on consoles then it is very likely is it not that on PC titles it should reap possibly even more performance and benefits with PC titles and simulators that offer much more detailed FFB.

Some seem to have an issue on these forums that most of the testers are primarly more "Console Players". May I suggest to those that have a problem with that if you want to head over to other forums with testers that are maybe concentrating on PC titles please feel free to do so and let the people here doing whatever testing they are doing carry on with such.

The whole "PC Superiority" we should all move to "PC Sims" is getting a bit tiring.
Of course I have nothing against those that want to test and report back on their findings regards PC games. I dont however think the testers need criticised this early in their testing.

 

[Spagetti69]

If the new Elite wheel feels good while driving, evokes pleasure while driving and is made of quality I think that's all you really can ask for.

I can go with that sentiment.

As for knocking Forza though for 3 lap races. That may be true to some extent, there are a couple of longer races.

It's not unusual for me to put in 15 laps when hotlapping or more.
Even spend 2 hours tuning and running laps.
That's where I spend most of my time in Forza.
I would love a good PC and such but my space and cash flow are limited.

I do love Forza. I could call myself a fan of Forza. I am male too. Hey I think I'm a Forza fanboy by that definition.

 

[superbike81]

I enjoy all kinds of racing games, but if you want the most realistic experience, unfortunately PC sim racing is your only option.

 

[Spagetti69]

I enjoy all kinds of racing games, but if you want the most realistic experience, unfortunately PC sim racing is your only option.

I agree mate. These console arcade games are getting better though.

 

[Mr Latte]

I enjoy all kinds of racing games, but if you want the most realistic experience, unfortunately PC sim racing is your only option.

Thats the thing NOT everyone does need or wants the most realistic experience. They are quite happy to enjoy the console game franchise's they love and the simpleness of consoles but with high quality wheels.

Amar like myself hasnt played PC gaming in many years. We are not blind to the fact of what PC can offer, the point is we have little urge to go back to it all.

 

[sonac]

Here comes that "something special" that I wanted to post this Saturday, but in the end did not. I had to wait for a firmware version that performs as it should.

CSR Elite Wheel Benchmarked​

I think I made a few interesting findings, please give me some feedback

 

[superbike81]

Well, the way that I look at it, why limit yourself?

A decent PC that can can run iRacing, rFactor2, NetKar Pro, can be built using last generation parts for about $600. If you are spending that much on a wheel alone, why not build a cheap PC and enjoy the more realistic sims? Like I said, I enjoy GT5 and even Need For Speed games (hell, Underground 2 is one of my all time favorite games) but I don't know why people who invest this kind of money into sim racing gear wouldn't have a cheap PC to run those games as well.

 

[Caz]

Very nice sonac!

 

[zibook]

Wanted to have your opinion since I don't think Thomas would answer me on his blog.

"A note for Canadian customers. We can only promise that the wheels which are pre-ordered now will leave our warehouse before Christmas but it depends on Canadian customs how fast you will have it at your door."

Does this mean that those (like few of us) who ordered the wheel on the first day will have their wheels shipped at the same time as those who order it today ?
I would love to know your opinion on this statement.

 

[thehawk05]

I'll take that as him referring to the second shipment that is arriving in a couple days. I'm pretty sure that most if not all the wheels in shipment 1 are spoken for from the 1st set of preorders. The second shipment will likely be the one used for the preorders that are made today and so on until they hit their limit.

Either way as I've said before....depending on your location in Canada it's gonna be 50/50 at best that you get it by next Friday if it gets shipped tomorrow.

 

[Mr Latte]

Well, the way that I look at it, why limit yourself?

A decent PC that can can run iRacing, rFactor2, NetKar Pro, can be built using last generation parts for about $600. If you are spending that much on a wheel alone, why not build a cheap PC and enjoy the more realistic sims? Like I said, I enjoy GT5 and even Need For Speed games (hell, Underground 2 is one of my all time favorite games) but I don't know why people who invest this kind of money into sim racing gear wouldn't have a cheap PC to run those games as well.

Simple you dont get the fact that PC games can be a real pain in the backside. Many of us have limited free time and really if we find console games easy to play, enjoy and entertain us.

The way we look at it is why give ourselves all the bother, hardware issues and driver related headaches some of us have had in days gone by. Even yet many games release with driver/hardware problems and bugs.

Maybe one day who knows. Personally for me it would be because of the hardware attraction of maybe running triple 3D screens and being so tech interested. Ive played Iracing and didnt find it much more enjoyable. Much more simulated yes but was I having more fun, err no not really.

 

[12thgear]

Sonac, thank you very much for the benchmark results. The FFB results confirm my suspicions based on my experiences with my PWTS and GT2. I always leave the FFB strength on my Fanatec at 100 and only adjust strength in the sim software because it otherwise felt like I was clipping the dynamic range of the FFB effects. In fact, when I adjust feedback strength in the game, my goal is to get the highest dynamic range possible, to get the most nuanced feel from the wheel.

I never even realized this tool existed. It's great to have data backing up my gut reaction.

Simple you dont get the fact that PC games can be a real pain in the backside. Many of us have limited free time and really if we find console games easy to play, enjoy and entertain us.

The way we look at it is why give ourselves all the bother, hardware issues and driver related headaches some of us have had in days gone by. Even yet many games release with driver/hardware problems and bugs.

I think Left888 said in another thread that with PC gaming you get what you put into it, which I think is accurate. You will get the best gaming and sim experiences on a PC, but you do have to invest the time. And as we get older, time is what we have less of. I go through gaming "mood swings": sometimes I love tweaking config files and installing mods for my PC games, and sometimes I want to plop my lazy bum on the couch and just play.

 

[superbike81]

Console games have plenty of bugs as well. PC gaming doesn't require as much tinkering as it used to.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yeah Sonac good work...

The tests certainly proved a few things we have been feeling and reporting on. CSRE trump card seems to be the smoothness and speed.

Is it me or is FFB stronger in FM4 with 900 degrees than at say 400.
Hope you guys can check Im not losing my mind and Sonac maybe consider changing the wheel rotation to see if that has any difference on the benchtests at all?

 

[12thgear]

Console games have plenty of bugs as well. PC gaming doesn't require as much tinkering as it used to.

Both are true statements, but there's still quite the delta in ease of use. Sure, I was a victim of the Forza 4 "no soup for you!" bug, but that's nothing compared to the tweaking I've had to perform in Windows versions of F1 2010, F1 2011, Dirt 3, Rage, Batman: Arkham City, as well as deciphering the inscrutable settings in Simbin titles. Right now, I can say the effort was worth it, but I felt very differently in the heat of the moment, when I was Googling for answers and combing support forums. Oddly, building and over clocking a PC seems far easier.

 

[sonac]

Thanks guys.
Latte, I can check that tomorrow, if you want. I am only still awake, because I was working on this benchmark until 2am (it's 3:15am now) I can not afford to make any noises now.
I must admit I never lowered sensitivity in Forza under 900° since the update came out.

 

[left888]

As for knocking Forza though for 3 lap races. That may be true to some extent, there are a couple of longer races.

Don't get me wrong I like Forza, we were speaking about being consistent in long races at iRacing, 25 minutes and up. GT5 and Forza 4 do not offer long races like that. That's why I laughed at the tester that said he improved after 3 laps, I meant no dis to Forza or GT5, apologies if it seemed that way.

I think I made a few interesting findings, please give me some feedback

Very well detailed benchmark sonac, I don't understand all the technicalities you presented here but I must say it seemed unbiased and well planned. Great job.

I think Left888 said in another thread that with PC gaming you get what you put into it, which I think is accurate. You will get the best gaming and sim experiences on a PC, but you do have to invest the time. And as we get older, time is what we have less of. I go through gaming "mood swings": sometimes I love tweaking config files and installing mods for my PC games, and sometimes I want to plop my lazy bum on the couch and just play.

To be honest I don't think there is that much work with PC racing, more if you want to install mods as you mentioned. I have had no issues in the last 3 or 4 years. The biggest thing with PC gaming is to have a healthy PC. My "Racer 8" PC has racing games and a few racing apps on it and that's it.

If a person has a PC that he has to share with his wife and 7 kids there might be some serious issues for a racer PC.

If you are in a position like me, 51 years old and I have had my house paid off for many years so no mortgage payment. My kids are grown and I am self employed, so I have all sorts of time to play.

Console racing is fun but very limited, it's relatively cheap to get into and it's usually the first step into sim racing a person gets into. I see a lot of people that talk about being immersed into sims racing, well you can't go to far with consoles. My friends like the console racing because it is easier. I am just realizing the possibilities with PC sim racing, man if only I was 30 years younger.

Simple you dont get the fact that PC games can be a real pain in the backside. Many of us have limited free time and really if we find console games easy to play, enjoy and entertain us.

The way we look at it is why give ourselves all the bother, hardware issues and driver related headaches some of us have had in days gone by. Even yet many games release with driver/hardware problems and bugs.

There is nothing wrong with just playing console games but as I mentioned before it limits your possibilities into immersion and the scope of game play. I have had way less issues with any of my PC's, I (and kids) have had 5 Xboxes and 1 PS3 go belly up, not very good IMO.

Yeah, I kindly stole it from a certain someone and edited a bit. I was a tad lazy, forgive me.

No troubles at all, it looks good too. 👍

 

[LogiForce]

Sonac, that was one hell of a read. I loved that benchmark as it gave me more info then any review ever would in terms of showing what a wheel is capable of. There are other stuff only a review can show, like the ALC function for example.

I will have to ask mister David Tucker as well for his permission to benchmark the CSW when the time comes, although I reckon it should produce similar results. Maybe we can exchange data when the time comes (haven't checked how the program works yet)?

I have a question for you though after reading especially the last part. Do you think that Fanatec/Thomas should change the way the FFB setting on the wheel (or driver settings) behaves after doing those tests, or is it maybe the other way around and should Thrustmaster and Logitech change their way of doing things?

 

[12thgear]

I have a question for you though after reading especially the last part. Do you think that Fanatec/Thomas should change the way the FFB setting on the wheel (or driver settings) behaves after doing those tests, or is it maybe the other way around and should Thrustmaster and Logitech change their way of doing things?

I think the Fanatec FFB strength control should work like a volume control instead of just clipping the signal. I don't see much value in it otherwise. At the very least, Fanatec could document the specifics of this feature better. For example, for the FF setting in the tuning menu the manual could say something along the lines of:

"FF (Force Feedback): For best results, adjust force feedback strength in your game software while leaving this setting at the default maximum setting (100). If your software doesn't allow force feedback adjustment and the effect is still too strong, you can use this setting to reduce the strength of the force feedback motor."

You know, I use terms volume control and dynamic range, and I think that's a good way to treat force feedback. The software creates a range of effects, from subtle vibrations to massive, violent feedback in the wheel. You want to reproduce that range of effects as accurately as possible. When I adjust the force feedback strength in my games I have to do it by feel. How cool would it be if the Fanatec tuning display (or even better—the rev meter on the CSW) could act like an audio level meter when you enter the tuning menu? You could enter that mode so that while driving you could check to see if the force feedback signal that the wheel is receiving is too "hot", clipping the signal and ruining the subtleties of the effects?

 

[VWMasteR]

really dissapointed with thomas, not going to repeat or explained what happenned in iracing forum. Good luck to you all buying fanatec product . Im sellng mine and changing to t500

What was said? Is there some valid information there that should be repeated?

As for knocking Forza though for 3 lap races. That may be true to some extent, there are a couple of longer races.

When I race with my friends we don't do it by lap count but usually pick a distance. The distance we race most frequently is 25 miles. We found it to be a really good distance that allowed for good wheel to wheel racing without the race being lost on a single mistake.

Many of us have limited free time and really if we find console games easy to play, enjoy and entertain us.

This was my main draw to xbox. I saw my friend, who had PS3 and 360, buy 2 games around 2 weeks in from release. They both received a patch in the first week. The PS3 took almost 10 minutes to download, install and reboot to play. This was very similar to my PC days. The xbox took approximately 14 seconds from download to the main menu. So when I have limited time and want to play the winner is pretty simple for me. This is the normal behaviour not the exception. That patching process is very very attractive to me.

I'll take that as him referring to the second shipment that is arriving in a couple days. I'm pretty sure that most if not all the wheels in shipment 1 are spoken for from the 1st set of preorders. The second shipment will likely be the one used for the preorders that are made today and so on until they hit their limit.

Either way as I've said before....depending on your location in Canada it's gonna be 50/50 at best that you get it by next Friday if it gets shipped tomorrow.

I really hope it gets here before Christmas as promised. I'd feel a bit left down if it arrived late.

 

[zibook]

I'll take that as him referring to the second shipment that is arriving in a couple days. I'm pretty sure that most if not all the wheels in shipment 1 are spoken for from the 1st set of preorders. The second shipment will likely be the one used for the preorders that are made today and so on until they hit their limit.

Either way as I've said before....depending on your location in Canada it's gonna be 50/50 at best that you get it by next Friday if it gets shipped tomorrow.

I'm from Quebec city!
I ordered the Clubsports Pedals few weeks ago and from the shipping to its delivery it took about 1-2 weeks. Should be the same here with the wheel.

I'm not one of those who will be mad if I don't get it before Christmas.. but I would really enjoy it !

 

[LogiForce]

I think the Fanatec FFB strength control should work like a volume control instead of just clipping the signal. I don't see much value in it otherwise. At the very least, Fanatec could document the specifics of this feature better. For example, for the FF setting in the tuning menu the manual could say something along the lines of:

"FF (Force Feedback): For best results, adjust force feedback strength in your game software while leaving this setting at the default maximum setting (100). If your software doesn't allow force feedback adjustment and the effect is still too strong, you can use this setting to reduce the strength of the force feedback motor."

You know, I use terms volume control and dynamic range, and I think that's a good way to treat force feedback. The software creates a range of effects, from subtle vibrations to massive, violent feedback in the wheel. You want to reproduce that range of effects as accurately as possible. When I adjust the force feedback strength in my games I have to do it by feel. How cool would it be if the Fanatec tuning display (or even better—the rev meter on the CSW) could act like an audio level meter when you enter the tuning menu? You could enter that mode so that while driving you could check to see if the force feedback signal that the wheel is receiving is too "hot", clipping the signal and ruining the subtleties of the effects?

I fully agree with what you're saying, hence I wondered about Sonac's input on this as well. If you see it in a sine wave on a graphic you'd want the amplitude of the wave to be changed (amplifier... volume knob... you're on the right way ) instead of using a bandpass filter (high-pass filter and low-pass filter working together to cutt off the amplitude on both ends of the sine wave).
Anyhow... I totally agree with you. I hope if we all agree with this here, we might want to make a topic and maybe Thomas can change it? Who knows...


It would be very cool to have such a thing on the CSW, and it might be necessary when you're able to increase the power of the send signals coming into the CSW like Thomas showed this summer.
The clipping will only happen if it exceeds the capacity of the motor. Or the maximum bandwith you have for the wave. It won't happen with the bandpass filter in place, as that acts as a "cutt-off filter" cutting it off at 100%.
Now since we now found out that the FF setting on the wheel acts as a bandpass filter and not a amplifier I wonder what good it would do to set it on the CSW to 150% for example. To my knowledge it won't do anything as the PC or console won't send out more then 100% FFB signal output. Thus putting a cutt-off above that level is pointless.
So is the FF setting in the CSW different, and thus does it act as an amplifier? I wonder...