Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

[ilonioum]

Oh happy birthday.

Thanks mate, very kind of you. And I'm getting the best gift - CSR Elite wheel and Club Sport Pedals. Probably won't have time to check them but receiving the boxes is already a great start, you know what I mean

 

[Mr Latte]

I think I told you a while back you should have it for your birthday.
Hell lets party, happy for you oul mucker.

The UPS date isnt 100% they seem to deliver in 3 cases Im aware of 1 day before the "due date"
However you Cypriot bunch have your own pace it seems (lol)

Ohh remember when you unbox her to stroke her nice, get her in your room, after a while you can flirt a little and then start getting dirty! 💡

 

[VWMasteR]

I had the same issue (mine came up as delivered on July 16, 2010) so I emailed Crystal back to find out the scoop with that.

For anyone else that gets this it should be noted that UPS, USPS, etc. recycle tracking numbers. The number you have will have updated tracking info once it is scanned/inputted by UPS, USPS into their tracking system.

You are correct "my" tracking number history is now wiped and says, electronic submission.

 

[ilonioum]

I think I told you a while back you should have it for your birthday.
Hell lets party, happy for you oul mucker.

The UPS date isnt 100% they seem to deliver in 3 cases Im aware of 1 day before the "due date"
However you Cypriot bunch have your own pace it seems (lol)

Ohh remember to stroke her nice, get her in your room, after a while you can flirt a little and then start getting dirty! 💡

Thanks Latte, this is a great gift. Cypriots do have a special pace, really slow one

The delivery date is today so I hope I will have it. 3 boxes and I'm getting dirty

 

[VWMasteR]

Happy Birthday ilonioum1!

 

[LogiForce]

Happy Birthday Ilonioum.

Although... watch vid...

 

[ilonioum]

thanks guys! and here is the pie

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Here comes that "something special" that I wanted to post this Saturday, but in the end did not. I had to wait for a firmware version that performs as it should.

CSR Elite Wheel Benchmarked​

I think I made a few interesting findings, please give me some feedback

It is indeed "something special". Good work 👍.

I am intrigued by the update rate. It seems the Logitech wheels are the only ones that can update as fast as most sim physics, while the other wheels are few times slower than what most sim game physics run at. Do you have data for the DFGT at all, if so how does it compare to the G25/G27? I wonder if you could get an official word why the Fanatec update rate is at that speed?



Happy Birthday ilonioum and enjoy the pie 👍.

 

[Richvw]

It's that time again

 

[Richvw]

#4000, where's my prize

 

[chamade]

Good news from Thomas blog

Submitted by HoiHman on Thu, 12/15/2011 - 06:05. Thomas, now the wheels are in transit, how about that firmware update?

I already spotted one user who complained about the lack of FFB between 11 and 1 on the wheel in Forza4.
I would be wise to comment on this, otherwise you'll probably have a lot of disappointed ?customers posting here.

Just give us the Beta firmware, with the old update procedure. People can then decide for themselves wether they want to update already or wait for the new firmware updater.

Surely you're not gonna let us wait as long as the CSR customers

Submitted by Thomas on Thu, 12/15/2011 - 08:35. The new updater is already working but we need to make a few more tweaks. In worst case I will release it as it is so everybody should get a new fw this week.

This is why I wouldn't buy a new Fanatec product until it has been out for the poor souls to go through the beta testing that should have been done in the first place. I ended up selling my CSR kit due to bugs and promises of a new firmware that still didn't materialize. The FFB/built was disappointing too, not much better than Logitech's stuff. Got the T500RS and I like it so much you'll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands.

The Fanatec way of doing things is closer to mom's basement engineering than the service/logistics that an actual company should provide. Yes, if you can't tell I am still livid from my experience with the CSR and Fanatec.

 

[PzR Slim]

It is indeed "something special". Good work 👍.

I am intrigued by the update rate. It seems the Logitech wheels are the only ones that can update as fast as most sim physics, while the other wheels are few times slower than what most sim game physics run at. Do you have data for the DFGT at all, if so how does it compare to the G25/G27? I wonder if you could get an official word why the Fanatec update rate is at that speed?



Happy Birthday ilonioum and enjoy the pie 👍.

Post from one of the staff members over at the iracing forums.

Our physics engine runs at 60 hz, and we read out the wheel position at the start of a physics cycle. Some games have pushed it up to 100 hz, but I don't know of any consumer level games that run faster. A lot of wheels out there only update at 120 hz, so there is not much to be gained by going faster than that, at least for the core of the physics loop.

So it seems the faster update rate of the Logitech wheels is not used.

 

[Timppaq]

Just read the benc test through and was a great read 👍 that point of keeping the wheel force on 100 with clear evidence is priceless for many I bet.

 

[sonac]

Thank you saidur_ali.
I made checked out DFGT vs G25 results and I can tell you that during the first full left command DFGT moves about 30 less than G25.
It is not true that sim games physics run that fast. From what I know none of "non-pro" simulations run at faster than 100Hz (physics). Correct me if I'm wrong. I know that iRacing runs at 60Hz.

I am sorry I was not here much since I posted these benchmarks, it's just that I have been terribly busy renovating apartment, it's a big mess (and I am too )!

Oh and happy Birthday ilonioum!

EDIT: PzR Slim was faster than me about the update rate.

 

[redmalloc]

I am intrigued by the update rate. It seems the Logitech wheels are the only ones that can update as fast as most sim physics, while the other wheels are few times slower than what most sim game physics run at. Do you have data for the DFGT at all, if so how does it compare to the G25/G27? I wonder if you could get an official word why the Fanatec update rate is at that speed?

On the iRacing forum, David Tucker (engineer) explained why the update rate is not all that important. For example, iRacing the core engine operates on a 60Hz model with some internal aspects running at multiples of that. I don't think anyone is doubting iRacing physics model.

Also consider the Frex uber$ wheel "only" runs at 50Hz.

What seems to get more traction in arguments is the input lag figures. There you have an observable effect not a theoretical argument. But even there there is no clear consensus.

On a side note, as an engineer I find some of the technical candy that gets dropped on the iRacing forum makes the subscription worth it alone. Dave Tucker regularly writes extensive explanation about the physic engine and related topics. There are also a lot of other very knowledgeable people.

 

[PzR Slim]

Thank you saidur_ali.
I made checked out DFGT vs G25 results and I can tell you that during the first full left command DFGT moves about 30 less than G25.
It is not true that sim games physics run that fast. From what I know none of "non-pro" simulations run at faster than 100Hz (physics). Correct me if I'm wrong. I know that iRacing runs at 60Hz.

I am sorry I was not here much since I posted these benchmarks, it's just that I have been terribly busy renovating apartment, it's a big mess (and I am too )!

Oh and happy Birthday ilonioum!

EDIT: PzR Slim was faster than me about the update rate.

You deserve all the credit Sonac. Your benchmark test is one of the best I have seen and taught us some invaluable lesson not only about the CSR Elite but all Fanatec wheels. Your results really made those over at the iracing forums sit up and take notice of the CSR Elite. Well done 👍

 

[ilonioum]

Indeed a very impressive job Sonac, this definitely adds up to your reviews and your abilities, apart from great video quality and thanks for wishing!

I do hope to see an extensive CSR Elite video review from you

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Post from one of the staff members over at the iracing forums.



So it seems the faster update rate of the Logitech wheels is not used.

I was going by this: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=939046#post939046

Not sure how this relates now with that bit of information but that will mean AutoSimSport is incorrect regarding iRacing.

Thank you saidur_ali.
I made checked out DFGT vs G25 results and I can tell you that during the first full left command DFGT moves about 30 less than G25.
It is not true that sim games physics run that fast. From what I know none of "non-pro" simulations run at faster than 100Hz (physics). Correct me if I'm wrong. I know that iRacing runs at 60Hz.

I am sorry I was not here much since I posted these benchmarks, it's just that I have been terribly busy renovating apartment, it's a big mess (and I am too )!

Oh and happy Birthday ilonioum!

EDIT: PzR Slim was faster than me about the update rate.

Thanks for the quick update. Does that mean the DFGT is slower than the Fanatec wheels in terms of inital response? Do you know the update rate in Hz? Thanks.

You can see the link above regarding sim physics speed. I know Turn 10 mentioned Forza 3 runs at 360Hz (http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/forza-3-pushes-xbox-further-than-ever-before--627284). Don't know what GT is though but there are other PC sims that have higher than 300Hz.

On the iRacing forum, David Tucker (engineer) explained why the update rate is not all that important. For example, iRacing the core engine operates on a 60Hz model with some internal aspects running at multiples of that. I don't think anyone is doubting iRacing physics model.

Also consider the Frex uber$ wheel "only" runs at 50Hz.

What seems to get more traction in arguments is the input lag figures. There you have an observable effect not a theoretical argument. But even there there is no clear consensus.

On a side note, as an engineer I find some of the technical candy that gets dropped on the iRacing forum makes the subscription worth it alone. Dave Tucker regularly writes extensive explanation about the physic engine and related topics. There are also a lot of other very knowledgeable people.

I think the update rate will be affected only if the game physics is running at a much faster rate. I wonder if the other figures for other games are just the peak of parts of the physics engine but the only way to know is to ask someone like Kunos to see if there update rate is 60Hz too.

 

[PzR Slim]

I was going by this: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=939046#post939046

Not sure how this relates now with that bit of information but that will mean AutoSimSport is incorrect regarding iRacing.


Thanks for the quick update. Does that mean the DFGT is slower than the Fanatec wheels in terms of inital response? Do you know the update rate in Hz? Thanks.

You can see the link above regarding sim physics speed. I know Turn 10 mentioned Forza 3 runs at 360Hz (http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/forza-3-pushes-xbox-further-than-ever-before--627284). Don't know what GT is though but there are other PC sims that have higher than 300Hz.



I think the update rate will be affected only if the game physics is running at a much faster rate. I wonder if the other figures for other games are just the peak of parts of the physics engine but the only way to know is to ask someone like Kunos to see if there update rate is 60Hz too.

Yes I also assumed from what I had heard from devs that physics engine ran at 360hz so this was a suprise to me. However, it was refreshing to hear a dev talk so openly and honestly about the reality of the situation.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Yes I also assumed from what I had heard from devs that physics engine ran at 360hz so this was a suprise to me. However, it was refreshing to hear a dev talk so openly and honestly about the reality of the situation.

This is a surprise to me too. It is always good to know what is happening in the background so you know how to get the most out of the physics. Good to hear iRacing forums has useful information put on there by the developers 👍.

 

[Mr Latte]

Indeed a very impressive job Sonac, this definitely adds up to your reviews and your abilities, apart from great video quality and thanks for wishing!

I do hope to see an extensive CSR Elite video review from you

Well he just proved he was worth voting for here at GTP and Im delighted regards his efforts. Sorry if my comments maybe came across as not that interested in the "benchtesting" I think its a sterling effort on his part.

It's a shame that on consoles we cant be sure if the same results carry over.
I can't say I find much less precision playing say FM4 with ingame FFB at MAX and the wheel varying between 70-100. Look forward to more indepth testing myself with the latest firmware and really getting stuck into GT5 to pitch against the T500RS.

 

[sandboxgod]

Yeah sonac made quite a wave at the iRacing forums. GJ (once again!) 👍

 

[sonac]

@saidur_ali:
Both G25 and DFGT run at 500Hz.

I need to correct a terrible mistake I made in my benchmark. I wrote that CSR Elite outputs data at 100Hz, when it actually started running at 500Hz with the firmware I used for the last test results, which were used in this write-up. You can see that CSR Elite's curve is surprisingly smooth for 100Hz.
I messed this up, because I had a ton of data in the same wheel comparison and somehow always managed to look at CSR Elite's data from testing with older beta firmware versions, when analyzing update rates. Sorry, I already corrected my text.
That said, this is only a beta version, so please don't take it for granted just yet. But they are working on it

@Mr. Latte:
I actually agree with your thinking a lot. It probably could happen that a wheel gets good test results (v717), but does not feel good or work well in real world, so subjective testing is the only way to really test the wheel and comment how it feels in different games. Testing also doesn't tell anything about how the wheel really feels, nothing about quality etc. I am actually quite terrified of writing the final review, simply because it is very hard to compare how different wheels feel and describe that.
There is no way benchmarks can replace that, but I always wanted to get some objective/scientific data about how these wheels perform and I think it is valuable to have these numbers out there. These do show some hard data that would otherwise maybe stay unknown and also there will be less rumors/myths about performance of different wheels this way.
I guess it is good to know if a wheel works as it is supposed to (in regards to linearity for example). Also I think that if we start benchmarking wheels, manufacturers will start paying more and more attention, so with time everyone will not only try to make a good, quality wheel that feels good, but maybe also make its FFB more linear (so that it will respond more correctly to game's commands) and stronger as they would, if they knew no one would test that.

 

[PzR Slim]

Thanks for the update Sonac. Looks like the elite will be future proofed for when sim physics do update at a higher rate as standard.

 

[mikemav]

Hey guys: while people (ahem, Latte) are experimenting with getting into the guts of the Elite, I wonder if someone could take a look at the wheel rim top section?

I wrote Thomas with a suggestion that where the seams are at about a 45 degree angle as the hand grips section joins the top piece, if the top section of the rim could be removed that might be ideal for me. I play with a large screen mounted low in my rig so the physical wheel matches up height-wise with most cockpits' on-screen wheel. This is very immersive, but in some sims the top of the real wheel rim often blocks part of the cockpit rendering on-screen. So if the top of the rim was removed, it would not only be lighter (more FFB/speed) but have better visibility. Just like a LeMans or ALMS car style steering wheel.

Also it would be even better if it could be removed and later replaced without damage. Or replaced with an optional different top? One like a Ferrari w/ built-in rev lights? Sure this would work PC only, and may have to be aftermarket (since it wouldn't pass Microsoft scrutiny), but wouldn't that be a cool add-on?

Anyway, Thomas responded (as long as my question was clear) that there are no electronics in that part of the rim, so cutting it away would be possible (I was concerned this was where the vibe motors or their cables might be in there.) But I wonder if cutting is the right word? Looks like w/ the seam there I was hoping it could be taken apart pretty easily. Ideally with a way to put it back easily would be even better- something like a hidden bolt or strong enough magnets on either side maybe?

Anyway, if anyone can tell how that section is connected or wants to experiment feel free to report back!

 

[DJ88]

Damn. Just read on ISR forums that there are no plans for them to review anymore Fanatec products in the future. Pretty bummed since I always enjoyed their wheel reviews and was really looking forward to the Elite and CSW reviews.

 

[cuco33]

Damn. Just read on ISR forums that there are no plans for them to review anymore Fanatec products in the future. Pretty bummed since I always enjoyed their wheel reviews and was really looking forward to the Elite and CSW reviews.

Is that true? Their last video was just released a few days ago and they mentioned they are just waiting for the CSR-Elite wheel to do a review.

 

[LogiForce]

Damn. Just read on ISR forums that there are no plans for them to review anymore Fanatec products in the future. Pretty bummed since I always enjoyed their wheel reviews and was really looking forward to the Elite and CSW reviews.

If you look at the iRacing forums you can already read Darin's 'review' on the Elite. The CSW should be the same I reckon.

Childish behavior in my opinion from Darin to go public. I'm sure he had to sign some form of non-disclosure agreement when he left Fanatec. I wonder if Thomas will take further steps because of possible damage done to Fanatec/Endor.

Besides, if you have read what is on iRacing and then go watch the xbox wheel comparison on youtube by ISR and go to 7:13 you'll know enough about ISR. In my opinion their reviews aren't really objective plus I have also doubts about their review methods since Darin raced on iRacing last at 8/8/11 and Shaun not over a year. Since that's the best game on the PC according to you all, why don't they use it more often? Or do they only use the test option? Plus what other games do they use for review etc... etc.

To be honest, I feel more confident about any review by the testers in this community then about ISR's reviews.

Is that true? Their last video was just released a few days ago and they mentioned they are just waiting for the CSR-Elite wheel to do a review.

Thomas said over at iRacing to Darin that he won't be getting an Elite when it's up to Darin, but since he was still on good terms with Shaun there was still a small chance according to him, so he would think about it. I reckon after talks with Shaun and Darin Thomas pulled the plug entirely.

 

[DJ88]

If you look at the iRacing forums you can already read Darin's 'review' on the Elite. The CSW should be the same I reckon.

Besides, if you have read what is on iRacing and then go watch the xbox wheel comparison on youtube by ISR and go to 7:13 you'll know enough about ISR

Well, even if it's childish I'm still very interested in reading Darin's "review" and comments on the iracing forums, but I'm not a member yet. My earlier attempt to get some info here from that forum was met with some odd hostility.

The reviews by community members and beta testers have all been great, but I will still miss the days of ISR getting first looks/sneak peeks of new Fanatec products and the great relationship they had before this whole mess took place.

 

[VWMasteR]

I think all of the reviews together are what paint the right picture. In all honesty every single review isn't perfect... but they can't be. If you focus on one thing then you won't be able to do something else.

The point of giving it to several people is so you get all the different styles, opinions and knowledge picking apart the product. As we've seen, all the reviews compliment each other to paint the full picture we hope for. So I think a job well done by everyone as I pretty much know what to expect next week when I get my wheel. If my wheels strictly meet the "average" expectation I'll be quite happy.

As for the ISR / Fanatec issues. I'm sure it will all blow over. If ISR stops reviewing Fanatec products then they will be neglecting quite a substantial part of the racing community. I'm sure right now everyone is just fresh and stressed and eventually this will work itself out. Funny enough though a similar thing happened at Toms Hardware and they rode a hate for that vendor for a long while. At first it was amusing but eventually they started reviewing that product again.