Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

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I'll have a look round town later and if i see something cheap ill grab it

You could even hang a bag off the spoke of the wheel with a string and fill it with weight until the wheel stalls, then put the bag on a bathroom scale! Doesn't need to be accurate to the ounce or anything.
 
It sounds to me as though he is quite sure, and with 4 different wheels, no less; but actually yes I do remember at least one off the top of my head:

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/2281-All-Thrustmaster-T500-rs-owners-come-to-this-thread!!!

This appears to be a little more in-depth info on michelcleo's issues:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18475570

One quick google search turned this up on the first page:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/pc-gaming/1719301-thrustmaster-t500-rs-faulty-issues.html

And I have seen several others. I didn't mean just at GTPlanet. As far as the T500 wheel getting hot, it is getting hot. The fans wouldn't blow out hot air otherwise. I am really not too interested in temps at the motor for the T500...what interests me is whether the wheel loses any degree of FFB over time as heat builds. If someone with a T500 would scale the max strength cold, then put it through some real paces and then just scale the wheel with a fish scale or other method, we'd know without a doubt. Don't forget also, that this weakening is when running pretty high levels of FFB. If people aren't running their wheels high, they may not be getting the heat built up enough to weaken the FFB. I have strong arms, I like strong FFB.

As far as the manual vs.FAQ warning, does it really matter? Both are official communication from Thrustmaster.

This problem wasn't brought to light here before I mentioned it for the CSR E and CSW, most likely because most people don't notice it. It reduces power gradually, so if you aren't observant/cognizant, you'd never even realize it without testing.

Also, don't get me wrong. You sound as though you feel you need to defend the T500. I'm not saying that the Fanatec wheels are better than the T500 by any means. I've never even touched a T500, so I'm not qualified to give an opinion there.

I do not see where they speak of this in the isiforums.net thread. Though it is the first result when you google search "t500rs losing strength"

How do I not get you wrong when you say things like: "As far as the manual vs.FAQ warning, does it really matter? "

Yes it matter, you said:

"I also remember there being explicit instructions in the T500 user manual about leaving the wheel powered on until the cooling fan shuts itself off thermostatically or you risk ruining the FFB motor."

That is not what the instuctions say, you are embellishing and this is why I quoted it from FAQ.

-----

The posts you googled. I do not know what you are doing. You saying that you already knew of these things but you are googling for them and keep editting your post to add.

You need read those other two topics you found and added.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18475570 This is michelcleo. It is his photos on second page. He posted here too.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/pc-gaming/1719301-thrustmaster-t500-rs-faulty-issues.html

This seems to be him too. Michelcleo are these you postings?

I do not need to defend the other wheel, I do not care. I say I wondered if the reason people did not complain except one about the strength decreasing was because of the motor size. Maybe it was not running full capacity.

You stated that it was, but you do not know really and kept pushing it seemed. No? If you push I push to I guess. Sorry

I do no want to argue so I am sorry to have offended if so. I seemed to have messed up the topic so I will go.

Do you not sleep in America? haha!
 
I do not see where they speak of this in the isiforums.net thread. Though it is the first result when you google search "t500rs losing strength"

How do I not get you wrong when you say things like: "As far as the manual vs.FAQ warning, does it really matter? "

Yes it matter, you said:

"I also remember there being explicit instructions in the T500 user manual about leaving the wheel powered on until the cooling fan shuts itself off thermostatically or you risk ruining the FFB motor."

That is not what the instuctions say, you are embellishing and this is why I quoted it from FAQ.

-----

The posts you googled. I do not know what you are doing. You saying that you already knew of these things but you are googling for them and keep editting your post to add.

You need read those other two topics you found and added.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18475570 This is michelcleo. It is his photos on second page. He posted here too.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/pc-gaming/1719301-thrustmaster-t500-rs-faulty-issues.html

This seems to be him too. Michelcleo are these you postings?

I do not need to defend the other wheel, I do not care. I say I wondered if the reason people did not complain except one about the strength decreasing was because of the motor size. Maybe it was not running full capacity.

You stated that it was, but you do not know really and kept pushing it seemed. No? If you push I push to I guess. Sorry

I do no want to argue so I am sorry to have offended if so. I seemed to have messed up the topic so I will go.

Do you not sleep in America? haha!

Hi Yes they are me, i had to delete a few photos as id used teh links for refund purposes ;)

Thats me at avforums, sadly i was banned for a bodged sale on a working projector i sold that was confirmed working ! :'( just to buy another t500rs :(
 
BTW, Steve, what brand of hex wrenches are visible in your photo, they look nice. Wiha maybe? Those are my favorite, but I've never seen a set arranged nicely in a case like that.

They are made by Kennedy. Extra long ball driver hex key set metric and imp.. £19.99
 
Just put 24v on my two motors that i have just removed from my Elite,
they both seem to spin correctly. So my question is why does my wheel feel grindy/notchy. (The one thing i did find on the test is that one of the motors was easier to stop than the other with the 24v applied)
which motors do fanatec use now ? my invoice for the new ones says V2 motor block.
 
ViaContra, I said I remembered the isi forum one off the top of my head. It is a poster named duvel I believe. I saw the posts because before I got my wheel I researched both wheels to see which I liked better. I read an awful lot of stuff about both wheels on many different forums. The others I just did a quick google because I don't recall which forums the posts were on, and if you re-read my post above you will see that I pointed out that one of the links was more in-depth info about michelcleo's wheel. Since he seems to have posted in several places under different names, perhaps I counted some of his posts I saw in different places. There's no need for you to go anywhere or quit the post, I just read your initial post as you stating that there were no problems with FFB weakening on T500s when clearly that is not the case just because noone noticed it yet. Until we get some objective tests it makes no sense to say nobody is having FFB weakening just because some people on the internet haven't noticed any. I bet if you ran a poll here, most Fanatec users would say their wheels don't weaken either. Most either don't run the FFB high enough or don't notice the drop-off because it is so gradual.

As far as the manual vs. FAQ thing, that is semantics. Whether it is in a Thrustmaster manual or a Thrustmaster FAQ it effectively makes no difference. I apologize for mixing up the words. It had been some time since I read it and I didn't even remember it was in an FAQ instead of the manual. I think you are being a bit picky about that, and I certainly did not embellish. The FAQ says what I said it did. Embellishment is exaggeration or adding to the facts, neither of which I did, IMO. They may not have come right out and used the word damage, but by saying "it works this way to protect the motor" they are saying the same thing.

I never stated the T500's FFB did weaken, I only stated that I had seen reports of it weakening. If you look at my later post you will see that I said
"what interests me is whether the wheel loses any degree of FFB over time as heat builds. If someone with a T500 would scale the max strength cold, then put it through some real paces and then just scale the wheel with a fish scale or other method, we'd know without a doubt."

So anyways stick around, just let's keep the so-and-so said stuff out of it and rely on tests. We have a guy here that can definitively answer that question once and for all as soon as he figures a way to measure it. One could probably run wheelcheck.exe from iracing when the wheel is cold and after it's hot and see the difference there too, I bet.

And yeah, I do sleep, sometimes! Got a bad back and chronic back pain from failed back surgery so sometimes I don't sleep so good.

Steve, the Fana-buchi I dissected is a "V2" motor. They are exactly the same as the old motors, Fanatec just say that the older ones were a "bad batch." The motors will still spin under no load even after they are damaged and make the FFB notchy. The easier one to stop is the damaged one.
 
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Hows this sound ?

Wheel at 520 degrees turning circle, i'll hold the wheel at 520 and then add a bag to the outsde of teh spoke untill the wheel is dragged down to 720 degrees.
Then after 30 min 1 hour 2 hours ect i'll do the same and take weight from the bag untill its gone from 720 back to 540 again, the difference in weight is the bit i need ?

There's no doubt in my mind that around teh hour mark the bag with orginal weight should drop the wheel from 520 to 720 as when the ffb gets weaker so does the wheel past its soft lock ;) so i'll measure the softlocks power as its the same as the ffb loss ;)

Mates are coming round later so we can do some time trials as im abit bored of teh games i have now.

I could start at 80% power as that does'nt take long before its weaker than 60%
 
AnotherCooler_zpsb70efaa5.png


In the example of Peltier cooling in this picture, where would the heat sensor go?
 
Well, the tough part will be the cooling. It's a little harder to offer that as a package, and other than motor durability, that's one of the most important parts, since it prevents the loss of power. If there is a lot of interest I'm sure a package could be worked out. I worked with a lot of machine shops, electric motor shops, and fab shops, so I know where to find good pricing. A full package of upgrades wouldn't be cheap though, you'd need motors, a better power supply, probably belt and pulley mods, and cooling apparatus. It'd probably run higher than an ARC G27 package. Of course, you could always do it little by little or with cheaper motors. My first suggestion to anyone would be cooling mods, then ball bearing motors, then if necessary worry about different power supplies and belt mods.

I'd be cool with that as long as it works.
 
Okay if you viewed Fana-Blog 2 you saw an example of undesireable pulley movement.

Bone stock you can slightly improve this with no new parts, for the 2-Rib belted CSW/Elite bases.

The stock motors and the large pulley they drive each have four ribs. If we number them 1-4 with 1 being closest to the motor and 4 furthest away, Fanatec uses 2 & 3. The middle.

Get yer motor belt moved to 1-2 (on the RHS motor pulleys and the large LHS pulley they drive) for about 15% less bending leverage on the pulley/shaft! Everything stays aligned and safe. Nothing bad will happen and slight good will result. Unless you have a few extra thumbs and are not comfortable going under the hood. There is no reason or benefit related to using 2-3 if you are comfortable with minor tweaks such as this one. Unless you are OCD and "need" one empty rib on either side of the belt of course.
smile.gif


Stock:
Stock-2Rib-Belt-Position_zpsbd3f7a59.jpg


RacerXX Suggestion:

Suggested-2Rib-Position_zpsc8f82916.jpg

undesireable pulley movement. !!
have you stopped to think that it is because you checked this without the motors being installed in the heatsink case.:dunce::dunce:
 
Here is a picture of an RC motor cooler chilled to below ambient:

147775d1150743475-muchmore-motor-cooler-not-coolin-img_0709-small-.jpg

Yes, I see now, did not know that even existed,

mmrc3010_475.jpg


They are saying:
Motor Cooler prior to racing, you can reduce motor temperature to nearly sub-zero levels!

Were you thinking on running those as we are using the wheel?

img3547s.jpg
 
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Yes, I see now, did not know that even existed,

mmrc3010_475.jpg


They are saying:


Were you thinking on running those as we are using the wheel?

img3547s.jpg

this type of cooler is not designed to run for long periods and would require a seperate powersupply to run it.
simply not a good choice to run in this application.
 
this type of cooler is not designed to run for long periods and would require a seperate powersupply to run it.
simply not a good choice to run in this application.

The additional power supply, might not be a big issue, but not beeing able to run long period of time is definitrly bad as we would not have the issue to begin with, if we were running our wheels for short burst.
What type of cooler would you think be more effective?
 
Yes, is there any exisitng water cooled electric engine, like car engine, that we would just have to connect to water circulation. Would make sense since they all seem dependent on stable temperature to optimaly perform, like a car engine
 
The R/C (boat) guys usually run slip-on water jackets or wrap copper coils around the motor just like RacerXX has shown in his pic. Then you pump liquid through the tubing to a heat exchanger/radiator to remove heat from the water. A Peltier could be used at the heat exchanger to help get things even chillier. I don't think it would be a good idea to run one of those Peltier motor wrap sinks in the wheel directly on the motor since the condensation might get water in places you don't want it. I don't think anyone offers such small electric motors with built-in water cooling, but they are offered and used on higher horsepower larger motors all the time.
 
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Also, for whoever asked, the temp sensor would still need to be on or as close as possible to the motor can if you use it. I will probably leave mine unhooked and just run a temp gauge, I plan on my cooling setup keeping everything cool without need for the sensor. Most of the R/C water cooling setups used these days are used on boats, for the obvious reason that you don't need a heat exchanger at all. They just use the thermal capacity of the body of water they are floating on and continually pull fresh, cool water into the cooling setup then spit it back into the body of water. The nice thing is they don't even need a pump, they just position a pickup under the hull that pushes water through the system when the boat moves forward. To effectively use water cooling on R/C cars you need a very lightweight and small setup. Some places are now putting out water cooling kits for R/C cars though. Not sure how effective they are but I have seen a few.
 
540 and 550 size jackets will fit the Mabuchi motors in the wheels as it is a standard size. :)

Something to note though... You cannot see this in that photo, but many of the water jackets actually circulate the water right up against the motor can and seal on it using o-rings. I'm not sure about the one you posted though.
 
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