Fanatec Podium Direct Drive Wheel Bases Thread

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by super_gt, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. SimRacer925

    SimRacer925

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    That's not possible.
     
  2. Krassi

    Krassi

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    It is possible to have some Service menu, which can be read only from Fanatec...for customers the overall operating hours dont have benefit...even if you buy used DD1 for example - the used motor work will not have any difference from the hours it is used...
    Why you need that info?
     
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  3. user3392345

    user3392345 (Banned)

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    Its just for info, i want to know how many hours i have done overall.
     
  4. Krassi

    Krassi

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    The easies way IMO is to summarise the hours from Steam - it shows how long is played every game;)
     
  5. Jason Yu

    Jason Yu

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    I have been very curious of the same thing actually. I guess you could imagine what sort of wear and tear has been put on the motor, like mileage for a car.
     
  6. Krassi

    Krassi

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    Those motors are made for such big wear and tear in mind that the driving sinracing titles is like sleep to them....TBH sometimes buying working used can be best working unit!:)
     
  7. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    Fundamentally I don't like heavy forces in my FFB. I don't like fighting the wheel. The G25 at 100% Gain is just perfect for me and there's not much tweaking needed in each game's settings. With the T-GT I lowered the profiler Gain to 65% to still be able to use the same settings in each game as G25. Any more and it's too heavy, and any less you start to lose a lot of detail. But even in this "sweet spot" of 65%, there are still situations where I'm fighting the wheel more than I was with G25 (e.g. massive oversteer situations). It took me a while before I could catch slides as confidently with the T-GT than I was with G25, and even now 2 years later I'm still not as good drifting with T-GT.

    I think the friction you mentioned is the key though. G25 just feels very raw and direct. Sure you don't get all the tiny details and the centre deadzone is annoying, but you can adapt to either. Whereas the T-GT's higher internal resistance is always going to there no matter what. I also don't get it when people say powerful wheels react faster, because I never found my G25 lacking in speed in countersteering situations.

    Those are the main points. There are also issues with build quality and reliability with T-GT (the rim lining peeling off just after 1 year, and face buttons randomly pressing in a race), and the fact that it costs 2x but pedals are worse than stock G25 unit and doesn't come with a shifter (yes I know stock G25 shifter is pathetic, but it does the job).

    Nah mate, I've tried GTS with both G25 (via Ricmotech adapter) and T-GT, and AC/ACC with G25/T-GT as well. It's the same conclusion and the point I'm trying to make is, a better wheel isn't going to fix physics/FFB shortcomings of a lesser sim. Instead of wasting another $500-1000 getting a better wheel, you're better off spending $60 getting a better sim. I hope that makes sense ;)
     
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  8. DomB_Fanatec

    DomB_Fanatec

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    I suggest that is because you are able to easily overcome the mechanical resistance of the motors and 'help' the rotation with your own input whenever a countersteer situation does require more speed. A powerful direct drive system has minimal mechanical resistance and more speed than almost any oversteer situation requires, and typically you'll want to slow the wheel through artificial damping and/or friction (available in the Tuning Menu of the Podium wheel bases). Once you find the right balance for the particular sim (and car) you are driving, you can make a countersteer feel very natural, i.e. not requiring any unnecessary input to correct the rotation speed.

    You'll sometimes hear people saying that a DD system can 'catch a car by itself'. It's not the full story, as the driver needs to provide skilled inputs to fully recover from a slide, but the initial countersteer in many oversteer situations can be predominantly an output from the car, not an input from the driver, and that's something that lower powered FFB systems can't replicate realistically.
     
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  9. user3392345

    user3392345 (Banned)

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    Thats the biggest problem of the g25/27/29, its just to slow, it cant output what the sim produce. All people whith logitech wheel i know say they cant drift. I always sayd them its not thems fault, its the wheel. Sure you can learn it, but you can also learn it with keyboard LOL :) It just feel much more natural and easier with a wheel thats fast enought to output the ingame ffb 1:1
     
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  10. andrewhake

    andrewhake

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    If you can't tell the different between a G25 and a Fanatec Podium Racing wheel maybe you are the variable? The T-GT isn't exactly a massive upgrade compared to their previous offerings or Logitech's offerings. Saying the T-GT isn't a big upgrade and therefore a DD system isn't worth it doesn't make any sense. It is an entirely different league. But even then the T-GT is greatly improved in many ways compared to the G25.

    Even the difference between a T-GT and even a CSL Elite is completely night and day in my opinion. And the difference between CSL Elite and DD is another night and day difference.

    There is nothing "raw and direct" about a G25, most of what you "feel" is just resistance from the motor. With a higher end base you can retain stronger feedback effects without all the resistance inherent in those older bases.
     
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  11. Krassi

    Krassi

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    I also keep one G25 for my future gaming museum:))) this wheel has its time....in present days it is just insane to compare it to current wheels...even the Fanatec CSR wheel is another galaxy...I also love my BMW Z3 Cabrio, but to compare it to modern cars is just a joke! Well at least can be 007 Classic car:)))
     
  12. super_gt

    super_gt

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  13. user3392345

    user3392345 (Banned)

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    What happend to simracing girl? Party hard day before? :lol::lol::cheers:
     
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  14. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    You are correct that I have to help the wheel to countersteer with G25. I never learned the "let go and catch" method which I imagine would be the preferred drifting technique with stronger wheels. Even while using the T-GT I still subconsciously help the wheel rotate, even though it's probably fast enough to do it on its own. I'm not the best drifter around though, so my technique is probably unique and not applicable to the norm.

    However, catching slides during normal fast driving, I never found the G25 lacking in speed either and in this case, I let the FFB do most of the work in the initial countersteer. First time I did karting and went into a corner too hard on the brakes and broke the rear end loose, the sensation feels very familiar to what I've been doing my whole simracing life.

    I'm not a fan of damping as it just "muddies" up the pure FFB coming from the game's physics. With the G25 with its weak motors I always have it at zero. With T-GT I also never used damping, except in ACC with its dynamic damping because it only activates during fast countersteer situations and not during normal wheel rotation. I imagine with DD wheels with very powerful motors and low internal resistance I'd finally have to use some damping, but with both G25/T-GT I really didn't felt the need.

    Well I wouldn't know the difference between G25 and Podium, because I haven't got one :p I haven't tried any other wheel besides G25/T-GT. I also didn't say that I can't feel the difference between G25 and T-GT, merely the difference isn't as big as the price tag would suggest (at least for my personal opinion) and it hasn't really improved my pace compared to the jump between gamepad and G25. The "raw and direct" comment is referring to the simplicity of the G25's internals. As someone has said G25 has very little resistance because it's basically just 2 sets of motors playing tug of war with a rack & pinion gear. I can just feel everything directly. Whereas with T-GT, even with it unplugged there's sort of a "mushy" feeling because of the belt drive system. I imagine the Podium has an even better directness than G25 (since you're basically holding on straight to the motor's shaft), but as I said above, I wouldn't know because I never tried it.

    The second point I was trying to make is that, no matter how good the wheel, the game physics & FFB will always be the limiting factor. Taking a more extreme example, using Podium wheel with GRID isn't gonna make it drive/feel better than playing ACC with G25. So for most people who already have a wheel, the more rational purchase would be to buy a better sim instead of upgrading hardware. Having said that, only YOU can place a value on your hobby, so if you feel it's the right time to splurge on a DD wheel, then by all means go ahead :tup: But for me, I just feel that the gains aren't worth it for the price. I'd love to try one out just to see if I'm wrong though.
     
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  15. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim Premium

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    There is so much slop in a gear driven system that it is, by design, less precise and less communicative than a belt driven wheel and even mores so a DD wheel. You say you can 'feel everything directly' with the G25 compared to the T-GT and that is just not possible due to the design of the two wheels drive systems. It's just not how they work. I've owned probably 15 wheels over the years, from the Microsoft Sidewinder, through G25, PWTS, T500RS, CSL Elite, CSWV2 and now a DD1 and what your saying just doesn't in anyway ring true with my own experience. I loved my G25, it was a solidly built, trusty wheel that did the job I asked it to do but it doesn't compare to the number of belt driven wheels I've owned and is a kids toy compared to the DD1. That notchy feel you get with a G25 compared to the smooth feel of a belt driven wheel tells you all you need to know about how well both systems replicate the forces they are receiving from the game.
     
  16. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    No I understand what you're trying to say and the inherent mechanical differences between the 2 wheels. If you read my earlier posts you'll also notice me lamenting the G25's center deadzone. From my own personal experience though, I never found that to be a limiting factor in the way my brain "perceives" the FFB coming from the game. Yes the G25 has more slop and less accurate, but with the T-GT despite being more accurate the FFB feels "muddier" somehow because of the belts. It's difficult to describe unless you're me, I guess :p

    Best analogy I can give is G25 is like driving an old lightweight car with hydraulic power steering (sloppy, weak force but feel more natural and attached to the road), whereas T-GT is like a modern heavy car with EPS (more precise, heavy but feels like a few layers removed from the road).

    Maybe it's just the length of time I've used the G25 (8 years vs approaching 2 for T-GT), but I can only tell you what I personally experience. Not saying everyone else has to subscribe to my opinion of course :tup:
     
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  17. super_gt

    super_gt

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    I think you would have been more pleased if you had bought CSL Elite for PS4 instead of T-GT. Because CSL Elite for PS4 has even lower resistance than G29, thanks to single belt drive, brushless motor with ball bearings, and a direct gear ratio of 5.6:1.
    In this video you can see how low resistance has the Podium DD with power off:

     
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  18. super_gt

    super_gt

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  19. Jeka_djonik

    Jeka_djonik

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    I don’t understand people who compare logitech with a belt drive. you are crazy. these are different things.
     
  20. Whitestar

    Whitestar Premium

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    "...and start enjoying your newfound increase in wheel to wheel base connection firmness"
    Nicely put Barry. :lol:
     
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  21. Whitestar

    Whitestar Premium

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    [​IMG]

    @DomB_Fanatec, maybe you should change the upper to: "FanaLab software" and the lower to "Free download". So as to not confuse people I mean :)
     
  22. user3392345

    user3392345 (Banned)

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    Barry is a cool guy, wish he would be my uncle LOL. But to be honest, he is also not perfect. Not everything he say is the reference and he also make mistakes.
     
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  23. user3392345

    user3392345 (Banned)

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    Someone tryed the dd1 on xbox yet?
    While playing forza7 on xbox the tuning menue on the base(xbox mode, base direct connected to console) is very very slow and laggy. Also the ffb is very numb and there are not all tuning options available. :(
    I tryed then with drivehub and base at v2.5 mode, no more laggy menue and all options are available+ ffb feels much more alive.
    someone can confirm this or its again just me? :)

    edit: on xbox mode also the pedal input is noticeable choppy, you can clearly see it on the little gas/brake bar ingame. with drivehub its smooth over the full range on all pedals, like it should be.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  24. Whitestar

    Whitestar Premium

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    Yes, and I'm also continuously puzzled by what he keeps saying about the road surface in AC, how it feels numb. Now, I haven't tried iRacing but among the other big sims out there I think that AC has some of the best road surface detail.
    Maybe it's different on a DD wheel, I wouldn't know.
     
  25. Z Crazy

    Z Crazy

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    Not to get too far off topic but, its all about what feels good to you. To me, A.C.'s feel is "numb" and not very confidence inspiring. The differences in one car's loaded and unloaded wheel weight is more than puzzling (overemphasized IMO). But the biggest problem, is in how they figured out how to get all those fine road details to you, but still give the overall impression of its feel as numb. That is absolutely mind-blowing to me. People call it numb, but I do believe there is a better way to characterize it, maybe muddy. Lots of road details as you allude to, but overall, not very useful information coming through (or maybe the road information is just hard to understand), IDK.
     
  26. user3392345

    user3392345 (Banned)

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    To me, Raceroom outputs the most satisfying ffb yet, on a dd. Was try it every now and then with my older wheels and always dreamed about how it would feel with a strong direct drive wheel. Now the dream have come true :D But its nothing for everyday use, it hurts after 1-2hours and hurt even next few days :D:D
     
  27. Krassi

    Krassi

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    Cant be sure it is the best FFB, but I like it alot and in my case it makes my SW7C hot faster than any other title...
     
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  28. andrewhake

    andrewhake

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    Has anyone gotten the Podium Hub yet? Was there any announcement of more button modules and things being made available for that? I don't want to get the hub until I will also be able to pair up a joystick or funky switch similar to most of Fanatec's recent fully equipped wheels.
     
  29. DomB_Fanatec

    DomB_Fanatec

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    The Podium Button Module Endurance (shown as part of the modular Porsche GT3 wheel at the Sim Expo) is due to launch this year. This upgrades the Podium Hub to have most of the features of a Formula V2 (including analogue stick and FunkySwitch), plus a larger display. Other modules are planned for the future. If you use a Podium Hub on its own, the Tuning Menu can be accessed through the FanaLab software on PC. However if you want to use it on a PS4, then waiting for the Podium Button Module Endurance would make sense (although you could already access the Tuning Menu and the PS button by swapping to a different wheel before going back to the Hub).
     
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  30. Jason Yu

    Jason Yu

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    Hey everyone, anyone by any chance order the podium steering wheel r300 and have some thoughts on it?