Fanatec Podium Direct Drive Wheel Bases Thread

[LogiForce]

@LogiForce
@PzR Slim

I completely agree with you! And if you look up my post then you will see that i only criticized the hype some people make and i said that i highly doubt that it will be the same quality etc... for the same price ... u know what i wrote.

The problem is that he called me delusional although its clear that he doesnt know anything about DD Systems. I build mine and can talk from experience. He instead just sounds like a Fanboy.

Btw i personally would love to see Fanatec come up with a seriously build DD System for a good price. Why not? I dont get paid by any company and like to see competition in this small market.

You have 3 good options to resolve this. First is contacting via PM and talk it out privately, report the post as a personal attack or often the best thing on the internet... try to ignore.
Dragging things out in public often causes others to mingle in, or being dragged in. It drags down the atmosphere along with this public back and forth.
I know it's hard and I made the same mistake more often than not in the past as well. I learned the hard way that when part of an internet community where people react to each other anonymously... well, you have to have a skin as thick as a hurde of elephants on top of each other.

No matter if the quality is lower or whatever. We, as sim racing fans, are getting a new toy to play with if we desire to purchase it. It is an interesting and fun event or should be, so let us keep it that way.

Now as for assumptions. It is hard to know if it is better or worse without a hands-on.
We did see from footage last year that they definitely use a different type of motor than the others. Different from Sim Steering and OSW, also different than the Simxperience Accuforce approach.
According to Thomas to Simracinggirl they are using a brushless DC outrunner motor. According to what I can find quickly they have the advantages that they produces a lot more torque but lower rpm, runs cooler and I am guessing that it runs smoother. This compared to a more traditional brushless DC inrunner motor.

So I am very curious to see what it can do. I really don't know how reliable it will be, nor if an outrunner is able to reproduce more or less FFB detail compared to more traditional DD solutions available at the moment.

Exciting times and it is the interest in the possible differences that hype me and drive my wish to get to know more, not what anyone here says. Just plain old genuine interest.

 

[Masscot]

The Podium DDW has my attention right now based on a few assumptions. All, none or some of those assumptions might actually turn out to be true.
I assume the electronics and PSU are built into the motor housing, so there's no need for a big ugly black box like there is with OSW.
I assume the motor will be optimised for a DDW, not an industrial-grade overkill motor that I'd use at a fraction of its operating capacity (this has been pretty much confirmed).
I assume the Podium wheel will draw less power and be cheaper to run because of the reasons above.
I assume it'll be lighter and sleeker and look better than an OSW.
I assume it'll have no coily cables connecting the rim to the wheel base (this has pretty much been confirmed)
I assume it'll work seamlessly and with full functional compatibility with ALL Fanatec rims (The McLaren rim is giving OSW owners issues right now).
I assume it will be priced competitively with similarly-spec'd OSW kits (no more than 15% more, anyway).

I've come close to buying an OSW recently but am cooling my jets to see what Podium will actually offer. If it can give comparable performance to an OSW and be priced in the same ballpark, but bring a whole host of advantages, then it will certainly appeal to me.

I've got a nasty feeling however that Fanatec will stick a ridiculous price on it and bank on people being willing to pay a large premium for the convenience of having a one-stop shop and a sleeker overall package. That would kill it stone dead in the water for me.

 

[super_gt]

I assume the electronics and PSU are built into the motor housing, so there's no need for a big ugly black box like there is with OSW.

 

[ojgt]

I assume it'll have no coily cables connecting the rim to the wheel base (this has pretty much been confirmed)

Yep, confirmed.

I assume it'll work seamlessly and with full functional compatibility with ALL Fanatec rims (The McLaren rim is giving OSW owners issues right now).

They have stated that the wheel base won't be able to use all of it's torque if a CSL wheel is connected. Not sure about the McLaren rim with the proper quick release though, probably that will work without any limitations.

I assume it will be priced competitively with similarly-spec'd OSW kits (no more than 15% more, anyway).

I've come close to buying an OSW recently but am cooling my jets to see what Podium will actually offer. If it can give comparable performance to an OSW and be priced in the same ballpark, but bring a whole host of advantages, then it will certainly appeal to me.

I've got a nasty feeling however that Fanatec will stick a ridiculous price on it and bank on people being willing to pay a large premium for the convenience of having a one-stop shop and a sleeker overall package. That would kill it stone dead in the water for me.

I don't think they can afford to stick a ridiculous price for it. Or them as there Will Be two Podiim wheel bases with different torque levels. Proper 20nm+ OSW kits are quite expensive and out of reach for majority of sim racers. I believe (or hope..) that at least the cheaper Podium base will be priced competitively.

 

[LogiForce]

The McLaren rim is a CSL wheel too even with the metal quick release.
The problem can be seen in the Sim Racing Garage review where Barry also has his doubts the wheel will last on a DD base.
What the issue is is that it is an all plastic construction. The front plate only is there to hold the buttons in place basically. The rest of the rim consists of a single molded plastic backside, which has brass screw inserts set in that plastic.
So while a metal QR is strong it would just mean that the failure point will now be where it connects to the rim. This means that the plastic around those brass inserts will either crack or wear out because this is the part that has to bear the most load/stress, and it really isn't that strong.

The Formula rim has the QR connected to a metal bracket that is connected to the front plate that makes up the whole wheel. So it is a much stronger construction and is likely to go all the way up the torque range, or quite a long way at least.

I really have no clue how well these outrunner motors perform, but they are as big as the competition and they use inrunner motors I believe. Outrunners have higher torque while inrunners have better speed. If it is really that much higher and the motors are still as big as we saw at the sim expo last year... yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if even torque is limited for clubsport range wheels.

 

[Dopplegagger]

It could be. Perhaps Fanatec will claim the plastic bodied rims aren't ideal for the Podium base? It wouldn't surprise me if they make that statement.

 

[LogiForce]

It could be. Perhaps Fanatec will claim the plastic bodied rims aren't ideal for the Podium base? It wouldn't surprise me if they make that statement.

They detect which rim is fitted as you can see in the driver settings. So what I suspect is that we will see automatic limits being applied with certain wheels.

At least this would be the most logical course of action. With maybe a note on the product pages of the base and rims that note the compatibility and any limitations.

They had to redesign the QR for a reason after all, so expecting a plastic QR/clamp thing to hold up with all that power is just unrealistic.

 

[Dopplegagger]

That would be cool. They probably will use the 3 additional plugs in the connector to denote if the wheel is a Podium model or not. I can't see Fanatec having the electronics poll all the wheel rims attached to the base just to set the torque limit. But then again... Maybe they'll do just that.

On second thought and rereading your post; they already do that with the current bases. So, what you've described makes sense. Not having a CS wheel base has more than a few disadvantages. LOL. BTW, the whole reply was based on your first paragraph.

So what are the 3 plugs in the connector for? Handling more torque?

Well... I eagerly await the news next month.

 

[LogiForce]

That would be cool. They probably will use the 3 additional plugs in the connector to denote if the wheel is a Podium model or not. I can't see Fanatec having the electronics poll all the wheel rims attached to the base just to set the torque limit. But then again... Maybe they'll do just that.

On second thought and rereading your post; they already do that with the current bases. So, what you've described makes sense. Not having a CS wheel base has more than a few disadvantages. LOL. BTW, the whole reply was based on your first paragraph.

So what are the 3 plugs in the connector for? Handling more torque?

Well... I eagerly await the news next month.

The 3 things? I don't know if that even is for electronics. It could be that a podium wheel rim has 3 prongs that slide in there just for extra strength/rigidity of the connection between wheel and base.

I did see that there are two more pins than in the original connector though. Maybe for more power in order to drive a nice big LCD screen with backlight in that formula 1 style rim we are always dreaming about?

I can only speculate at this point.

 

[andrewhake]

The McLaren rim is a CSL wheel too even with the metal quick release.
The problem can be seen in the Sim Racing Garage review where Barry also has his doubts the wheel will last on a DD base.
What the issue is is that it is an all plastic construction. The front plate only is there to hold the buttons in place basically. The rest of the rim consists of a single molded plastic backside, which has brass screw inserts set in that plastic.
So while a metal QR is strong it would just mean that the failure point will now be where it connects to the rim. This means that the plastic around those brass inserts will either crack or wear out because this is the part that has to bear the most load/stress, and it really isn't that strong.

The Formula rim has the QR connected to a metal bracket that is connected to the front plate that makes up the whole wheel. So it is a much stronger construction and is likely to go all the way up the torque range, or quite a long way at least.

I really have no clue how well these outrunner motors perform, but they are as big as the competition and they use inrunner motors I believe. Outrunners have higher torque while inrunners have better speed. If it is really that much higher and the motors are still as big as we saw at the sim expo last year... yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if even torque is limited for clubsport range wheels.

Thomas has already said on the Fanatec forums he has personally tested the CLS McLaren wheel on the Podium wheel base and it is fine.

 

[LogiForce]

Thomas has already said on the Fanatec forums he has personally tested the CLS McLaren wheel on the Podium wheel base and it is fine.

I missed that. Thanks for taking away any worries.

I'll go to the Fanatec forums to do some info gathering as I feel like I am missing a lot.

 

[andrewhake]

I missed that. Thanks for taking away any worries.

I'll go to the Fanatec forums to do some info gathering as I feel like I am missing a lot.

The CLS McLaren with the metal quick release feels extremely strong to me. It already is quite strong with the plastic mount, but feels the best to me with the metal quick release with the fixed mounting bolt also installed. No play or flex at all in any normal situation. Unless you are really cranking on the wheel at unrealistic angles it doesn't really flex at all.

The inserts aren't "brass" as mentioned in that video. Inserts like this are often just zinc coated to avoid any corrosion. They are most likely zinc coated steel inserts which are extremely strong.

 

[LogiForce]

The CLS McLaren with the metal quick release feels extremely strong to me. It already is quite strong with the plastic mount, but feels the best to me with the metal quick release with the fixed mounting bolt also installed. No play or flex at all in any normal situation. Unless you are really cranking on the wheel at unrealistic angles it doesn't really flex at all.

The inserts aren't "brass" as mentioned in that video. Inserts like this are often just zinc coated to avoid any corrosion. They are most likely zinc coated steel inserts which are extremely strong.

I think you misunderstood me entirely. I don't expect the wheel to flex, but more that the plastic around those inserts would fail under stress. Especially repeated extreme stress from a high torque motor in a long time period... 2 to 3 years (the normal life expectancy of any electronics device)

 

[lancia delta hf]

The most important question console players really need to know is: Will this be compatible with next gen which is just around the corner? A no would do more damage to the industry than last time around imo.

 

[ojgt]

The most important question console players really need to know is: Will this be compatible with next gen which is just around the corner? A no would do more damage to the industry than last time around imo.

Very likely that they don't even know yet. And even if they did I'm sure they wouldn't be able to announce anything about next gen console compatibility until the consoles themselves are announced/released.

 

[LogiForce]

The most important question console players really need to know is: Will this be compatible with next gen which is just around the corner? A no would do more damage to the industry than last time around imo.

Short answer is... most likely not. Since both require per generation of console specific licensing and communication hardware/chips the chance is simply low. Although I give MS more of a chance than Sony, since MS allows the chip in the steering wheel itself but Sony demands to have a completely new wheel/base made according to current policy. Which was the reason the CSWv2 lost its PS4 compatibility.

So instead of blaming Fanatec for not being able to guarantee the impossible you should put the blame on the ones that are making these policies, the console designers/manufacturers.

That said, last time around with the current consoles the manufacturers (like Fanatec) had to wait until the console was released before they could even apply for a license to start making 'accessoires'. So even Fanatec and so on won't know what will happen before release I reckon if you look at that past history.

 

[WippyMan]

I would think with Microsoft you should be fairly safe that current accessories with work on the next console, their current attitude going forward seem to be including the past with backwards compatibility. If the launch of X was any sign it won't be new "generations" after several years any more and a continuation with upgraded models every few years. Sony, who knows, their past track record is patchy with wheels but you would think Fanatec would not be so short sighted after just working out deals with both manufactures in recent times to not think that far ahead knowing new consoles are due in the near future.

 

[LogiForce]

I do wonder if new consoles are on the horizon. I rather think it will be just upgraded models.
Even Nvidia recently stated at Computex that the next generation of graphics cards for gamers is a long way away.
Also looking at benchmarks compared to my Sandy Bridge cpu (2600k) I don't get the impression technology is moving forwards. To be brutally honest, they seem to be stuck completely as the past almost 10 years have only been about refinement of technology and shrinking them to make them more energy efficient.

I therefore really don't see the entire gaming scene on pc or console taking a next big step anytime soon at all.

 

[andrewhake]

I think you misunderstood me entirely. I don't expect the wheel to flex, but more that the plastic around those inserts would fail under stress. Especially repeated extreme stress from a high torque motor in a long time period... 2 to 3 years (the normal life expectancy of any electronics device)

No I didn't. You are just being obnoxious on purpose.

 

[F Inferno]

No I didn't. You are just being obnoxious on purpose.

I mean he isn’t being that unreasonable in his thought process and even Barry looked at it and didn’t think it would withstand the forces either. Even if it does for a bit, long term would be a question mark plus the fact Fanatec have already said the Podium bases will operate at lower max FFB on all CSL wheels tells me they really aren’t designed to.

For reference the plastic button box of the Accuforce has 3 bolts that go all the way through the button box just behind the rim into the QR and then another 3 which go from the rim all the way to the QR, so that’s 6 bolts 2 inches long with channels for added strength.

Even my custom F1 rim which is all carbon fibre does the same thing with 3 bolts going through the front straight into the QR and 3 internal on the backplate rather than just only on the back like this one.

I’m sure they’ll have some nice Podium wheels to go alongside the base, maybe even a full carbon fibre version of the GT3 rim built to withstand anything you can throw at it.

 

[Shinu]

Better question is how fast can drivehub be updated to support it?

 

[super_gt]

Better question is how fast can drivehub be updated to support it?

Let's first wait and see for which consoles it will be officially licensed.

 

[Shinu]

I'm not getting my hopes up on the comparability part. Would be nice if it had CSW V2 mode and that would be settled (If later full compatability would come - that is noce)

To my understanding 2018.07.13 is the release date? My birthday is one day off.
I know I technically don't need it(and guilt myself) my csw v2 is still fine, but I have that feeling that I should reward myself. (recently I work a lot)

I'm interested in the difference because the jump from g27 was quite nice (don't know if it was worth the price but I don't regret it).
Being disabled maybe CSW is enough but the no clipping part part is intriguing (I usually like bigger ffb tho).

On another note. Lately I don't have the time and I messed up my Achilles.

 

[LogiForce]

I'm not getting my hopes up on the comparability part. Would be nice if it had CSW V2 mode and that would be settled (If later full compatability would come - that is noce)

To my understanding 2018.07.13 is the release date? My birthday is one day off.
I know I technically don't need it(and guilt myself) my csw v2 is still fine, but I have that feeling that I should reward myself. (recently I work a lot)

I'm interested in the difference because the jump from g27 was quite nice (don't know if it was worth the price but I don't regret it).
Being disabled maybe CSW is enough but the no clipping part part is intriguing (I usually like bigger ffb tho).

On another note. Lately I don't have the time and I messed up my Achilles.

Well, I am expecting to have a higher fidelity FFB. In other words a better representation of road textures, grip levels and generally what the tyres are doing, and that even in high speed high downforce cornering sections. So exactly because you don't use the full brunt of all the power the motor can deliver you'll have a better feel.
If possibly I'd like the strongest FFB spikes to stay below 80% of the game's output in order to give the motor enough headroom for itself. So on a 20Nm wheel I'd only use 16Nm at most.

Still, that's just guesswork on my part while I've never had the pleasure to even feel what a DD can do.

 

[F Inferno]

Well, I am expecting to have a higher fidelity FFB. In other words a better representation of road textures, grip levels and generally what the tyres are doing, and that even in high speed high downforce cornering sections. So exactly because you don't use the full brunt of all the power the motor can deliver you'll have a better feel.
If possibly I'd like the strongest FFB spikes to stay below 80% of the game's output in order to give the motor enough headroom for itself. So on a 20Nm wheel I'd only use 16Nm at most.

Still, that's just guesswork on my part while I've never had the pleasure to even feel what a DD can do.

If you lower the FFB on a normal wheel to levels it can handle then the CSW V2.5 will still do that.

The real difference isn’t really how much force it can output it’s the small details it’s able to convey at all times. So whether you are going slow with a light wheel or loading up through a fast corner, you’ll still feel any bumps in the road come through with perfect clarity.

What happens on the belt and gear systems is it gets damped out by the mechanisms so either you don’t ever feel the detail regardless of other forces or it’s very muted. The best way I can think of it is like only ever hearing music through a wall and then one day getting to hear it in the same room and realising how much you couldn’t actually hear.

 

[andrewhake]

I mean he isn’t being that unreasonable in his thought process and even Barry looked at it and didn’t think it would withstand the forces either. Even if it does for a bit, long term would be a question mark plus the fact Fanatec have already said the Podium bases will operate at lower max FFB on all CSL wheels tells me they really aren’t designed to.

Yeah that might be the case for CSL wheels with the plastic mount. Thomas posted on the Fanatec forums saying they have tested the McLaren CSL on the Podium base and don't predict there to be any long term issues. I imagine this is with the metal quick release on the McLaren. You can either go with the people that are just speculating, or the people that make the product and have actually tested it. Having used this wheel for quite awhile now with both the plastic mount and metal QR, there isn't any real significant flex under normal use.

There is less with the metal QR, but in reality you are never really grabbing the wheel and trying to flex the **** out of it off axis like people will do in videos. The difference in feel vs the plastic and metal QR is minimal. And again it's even less so when just using the wheel as intended and not applying off steering axis force. If you are applying a ton of off axis force on the wheel you probably want to adjust/improve your driving style anyway. Applying a death grip and death twist to a steering wheel is not a common technique haha.

With the way the wheel is designed, the entire back section of the wheel would have to fail essentially, it's not just a basic bit of thick plastic it is an entire boxed off framework that extends throughout the entire wheel. Personally I would love to see Fanatec make a Podium version of this wheel out of full pre-preg carbon, but that would probably make the wheel cost as much as the Podium base itself. Making a carbon wheel that isn't just a simple flat shape that can be cut out of a flat piece is a significant expense just to develop the tooling, not to mention the time and resources and equipment actually required to manufacture. All for a small amount of weight savings and an increase in stiffness that won't even be felt in most situations. All that said I still want one haha. And all that said there is no reason to think this wheel in it's current state with metal QR couldn't hold up to any force thrown at it by and DD system.

 

[F Inferno]

Yeah that might be the case for CSL wheels with the plastic mount. Thomas posted on the Fanatec forums saying they have tested the McLaren CSL on the Podium base and don't predict there to be any long term issues. I imagine this is with the metal quick release on the McLaren. You can either go with the people that are just speculating, or the people that make the product and have actually tested it. Having used this wheel for quite awhile now with both the plastic mount and metal QR, there isn't any real significant flex under normal use.

There is less with the metal QR, but in reality you are never really grabbing the wheel and trying to flex the **** out of it off axis like people will do in videos. The difference in feel vs the plastic and metal QR is minimal. And again it's even less so when just using the wheel as intended and not applying off steering axis force. If you are applying a ton of off axis force on the wheel you probably want to adjust/improve your driving style anyway. Applying a death grip and death twist to a steering wheel is not a common technique haha.

With the way the wheel is designed, the entire back section of the wheel would have to fail essentially, it's not just a basic bit of thick plastic it is an entire boxed off framework that extends throughout the entire wheel. Personally I would love to see Fanatec make a Podium version of this wheel out of full pre-preg carbon, but that would probably make the wheel cost as much as the Podium base itself. Making a carbon wheel that isn't just a simple flat shape that can be cut out of a flat piece is a significant expense just to develop the tooling, not to mention the time and resources and equipment actually required to manufacture. All for a small amount of weight savings and an increase in stiffness that won't even be felt in most situations. All that said I still want one haha. And all that said there is no reason to think this wheel in it's current state with metal QR couldn't hold up to any force thrown at it by and DD system.

But what they have previously said is the CSL rims will be detected and max FFB force will be capped, I mean it comes down to how strong the wheels end up being I guess but those basic plastic ones I definitely wouldn’t trust if it’s the same on the GT3 as the P1 I tried.

They have said there will be Podium wheel rims too and yeh they’ll cost as much as the base but full carbon is sweat. If they come priced below the precision sim engineering ones which is £1350 just for the “basic” one and offer USB compatibility they’ll sell a ton.

 

[lancia delta hf]

Short answer is... most likely not. Since both require per generation of console specific licensing and communication hardware/chips the chance is simply low. Although I give MS more of a chance than Sony, since MS allows the chip in the steering wheel itself but Sony demands to have a completely new wheel/base made according to current policy. Which was the reason the CSWv2 lost its PS4 compatibility.

So instead of blaming Fanatec for not being able to guarantee the impossible you should put the blame on the ones that are making these policies, the console designers/manufacturers.

That said, last time around with the current consoles the manufacturers (like Fanatec) had to wait until the console was released before they could even apply for a license to start making 'accessoires'. So even Fanatec and so on won't know what will happen before release I reckon if you look at that past history.

Whilst what you say makes sense. I'd like to think both console manufacturers and wheel manufacturers would try to do the right thing next time around. If they don't then they will have seen the last cent out of me.

 

[EmArA]

Deal breakers would be
* high price (over 1.8k € with a wheel/button box)
* your rig can’t handle it

 

[Dopplegagger]

Deal breakers would be
* high price (over 1.8k € with a wheel/button box)
* your rig can’t handle it

What rigs wouldn't be able to handle a direct drive wheel?

I assume by rig, you mean a full cockpit of some sort, and not an ironing board or a TV Dinner stand, correct?