Fanatec Reveals Direct Drive ClubSport DD and DD+ Wheel Bases: Available to Pre-Order Now

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Availability date is already pushed back to December 19th now...
Damn, I was waiting for my new credit card (because sign-up bonus) to place the order. Now the chance of it actually arriving before Christmas got slimmer, I might as well wait for the non-PS CS DD reviews which should come out in early November
 
The used market for fanatec is absolute insanity. Everyone wants more for used than it costs brand new. It's mind boggling.
I tried to buy a used V3 pedal set on Craigslist and the guy wanted me to buy his whole used rig…hard pass. Most of the used gear doesn’t look anywhere near the cost of a new set up …which i ended up doing
i probably spent close to $2k on new fanatec stuff this year…spread out items over the year and got the shifter last week. I should be done buying gear until PS6
 
As much as I’d love to preorder the new ClubSport DD+ (because it WILL sell out and then be on back order for weeks like everything they make) I really want to see reviews to determine how much the upgrades improve the experience over the Podium DDs. I have the PlayStation compatible DD1 so don’t cry for me, but I’ll be excited to sidegrade if the CS DD+ really reduces the cogging and if slew rate/other enhancements really do heighten realism and manage oscillations better. Plus I’d love to know if FullForce lives up to their hype and goals.
What have you read or heard regards which games will be getting compatibility for "FullForce"
Lets not just assume things, but for me to buy this wheel, I want to know what/when support for that feature will be coming to specific titles. Both for PC or consoles.

I also was waiting to see what Fanatec do with BF to see if they combine the new DD+ in a package deal?

Logitech have been really bad at gaining support with developers for their TRUEFORCE.
While at least Fanatec has some nice rims to consider, I dont want to buy another product with features that I cant use on my fave racing titles.
 
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What have you read or heard regards which games will be getting compatibility for "FullForce"
Lets not just assume things, but for me to buy this wheel, I want to know what/when support for that feature will be coming to specific titles. Both for PC or consoles.

I also was waiting to see what Fanatec do with BF to see if they combine the new DD+ in a package deal?

Logitech have been really bad at gaining support with developers for their TRUEFORCE.
While at least Fanatec has some nice rims to consider, I dont want to buy another product with features that I cant use on my fave racing titles.
That’s just it. I haven’t heard anything definitive about which titles will support FullForce and in what capacity. Quality of implementation will be equally important. I think we both have the same doubts/concerns and we’ll need to take a wait and see approach to accurately judge FullForce. During the period when few titles support FullForce it’ll also be interesting to see if a sequel that implements FullForce (let’s say the next F1 or WRC or whatever for the sake of discussion) truly offers “next gen” FFB relative to its predecessor.
 
I agree, public information about FullForce support is essential. Of course, the quality of the implementation can only be judged once we have both the wheel and the games at hand, but without even a rough schedule on when we are to expect the first implementations and to what effect is FullForce going to be used in those implementations, buying a DD+ is not an option for me. And I really, really want it to be.
 
That’s just it. I haven’t heard anything definitive about which titles will support FullForce and in what capacity. Quality of implementation will be equally important. I think we both have the same doubts/concerns and we’ll need to take a wait and see approach to accurately judge FullForce. During the period when few titles support FullForce it’ll also be interesting to see if a sequel that implements FullForce (let’s say the next F1 or WRC or whatever for the sake of discussion) truly offers “next gen” FFB relative to its predecessor.
In one of the recent videos that guy from Fanatec stated that i-racing (title used at the show) and GT7 with also ACC as the three titles in focus for the haptic feature. Also mentions they want to work more closely with the developers.

What I take from that is they are aware of what/how Logitech have applied the feature and are doing something similar but that it offers an audible range similar to what exciters can offer (operating like speaker/tactile unit combined) upto 16KHz. The question is will it be better supported or even also actually operate better too?

However it appears like TRUEFORCE they need the title to support "individual effects volumes" so that the user is able to generate an output mix of whatever effects are made available and then the wheel enables the user to apply a gain setting to that mix.

The drawback for example GT7 and Logitechs TRUEFORCE is that GT7 as a title within its settings does not let the user apply individual volumes for the engine and important *(highly desired effects like road bumps/textures).

For this technology to work better then the title has to offer improved arrangement of effects, (Grid game as an example offers more) so the user can then better apply/set their own preferences as to what effects will feel stronger.

What I can say is that yes indeed some effects within the "game audio" can add to the immersion and in some scenarios an effect may come from that games audio, but their is no generated telemetry response. Examples of this are the highway joints in GT7 and kerb detail or in some cases road surface or how I think GT7 applies g-force related scenarios.

We will also see if the issue with Logitech and GT7 (restricted output) is actually related or even determined by an arrangement that Fanatec have sought to secure so their own wheelbases are not restricted. Maybe part of the problem Logitech has had, is that other factors in relation to competitors like Fanatec have made it hard for them to gain developer support?

Its clear to me though that Logitec, while the hardware was quite good, they really did not do well enough to ensure high profile titles utilised thier hardware and left it far to long to even acknowledge/confirm additional wheel rims or other hardware were coming. Meanwhile other much smaller companies have entered the DD marketplace and with add-on products made available.

I do think a lot of Logitech DD wheel owners if reviews are positive will consider switching to Fanatec....
 
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I'm taking FullForce as a bonus if and when it arrives. I pre-ordered the DD+ regardless; I think the touted quicker reactions and ability to maintain its power output consistently will be worth it. Plus I have a friend who wants to buy my GT DD, anyway LOL
 
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I'm taking FullForce as a bonus if and when it arrives. I pre-ordered the DD+ regardless; I think the touted quicker reactions and ability to maintain its power output consistently will be worth it. Plus I have a friend who wants to buy my GT DD, anyway LOL
I have no doubt the DD+ is an excellent wheel anyways, but since I have that extra layer of haptics in GT7 with my current T-GT II and its transducer, I want to be sure I'm not getting a downgrade in any aspect after paying a hefty amount for a new wheel. So I'm just sitting on the fence until that information is public.
 
I will definitely be keeping an eye out for reviews. I have some old equipment I need to sell and will possibly be selling my DD Pro as well if the dd+ is worth it, which I am assuming it will be.
 
DD+ is now showing available 27 December.

Honest question, is that date moving cause they sold all the initial production and those (like me) that ordered as soon as pre orders opened, are still expecting early December? Like someone who orders now can expect to be waiting until the end of Dec?
 
DD+ is now showing available 27 December.

Honest question, is that date moving cause they sold all the initial production and those (like me) that ordered as soon as pre orders opened, are still expecting early December? Like someone who orders now can expect to be waiting until the end of Dec?
Still says the 19th on the US site
 
Well they got back to me, but even with my order number, it’s not really a clear response. I specifically asked my question above. Ordered within the hour of it going live. I don’t want to assume that mine is in the first batch, but I hope it is.
IMG_0249.jpeg
 
Well they got back to me, but even with my order number, it’s not really a clear response. I specifically asked my question above. Ordered within the hour of it going live. I don’t want to assume that mine is in the first batch, but I hope it is.
View attachment 1303501
If you ordered within the first hour, I'm pretty sure you're good to be in the first batch.
 
I'm really curious about "full force" and how it'll be implemented into GT7... I've been dying for GT7 to give me a similar feel to ACC and maybe this will be it. If ACC can deliver a high level of detail with my DD-Pro.... Why can't PD do it? Why does PD need "full force" to potentially get to that level?

I'd like to know why "full force" can't be implemented into the DD-Pro, especially since my DD-Pro is not THAT old. My assumption is that they just want us to purchase a new $1000 base...

I think what really concerns me is that PD (at any time) could neuter "full force" and god knows they don't communicate to us.
 
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I'm really curious about "full force" and how it'll be implemented into GT7... I've been dying for GT7 to give me a similar feel to ACC and maybe this will be it. If ACC can deliver a high level of detail with my DD-Pro.... Why can't PD do it? Why does PD need "full force" to potentially get to that level?

I'd like to know why "full force" can't be implemented into the DD-Pro, especially since my DD-Pro is not THAT old. My assumption is that they just want us to purchase a new $1000 base...

I think what really concerns me is that PD (at any time) could neuter "force feedback" and god knows they don't communicate to us.
GT7 FF will never feel as good as ACC FF. Full Force is like True Force on Logitech, it's just an added layer of detail on top like fine textures and whatnot. It won't fundamentally change anything major with the FF. Still nice to have it though. Edit- oh wait I forgot, ACC is not Assetto Corsa. ACC FF isn't as good as AC FF so maybe GT7 could be as good as ACC.
 
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BWX
GT7 FF will never feel as good as ACC FF. Full Force is like True Force on Logitech, it's just an added layer of detail on top like fine textures and whatnot. It won't fundamentally change anything major with the FF. Still nice to have it though. Edit- oh wait I forgot, ACC is not Assetto Corsa. ACC FF isn't as good as AC FF so maybe GT7 could be as good as ACC.
The only reason I mentioned that is because of the post below.

Fanatec Engineer states they're working with developers to support "Full Force"

I hope that whatever PD implements for "Full Force" will heavily overlap with the existing wheel bases.

Edit: After watching the Boosted Media video linked above I don't believe PD/Fanatecs utilization of the API for the new wheel will have residual benefits for DD-Pro owners. SMFH...
 
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The only reason I mentioned that is because of the post below.

Fanatec Engineer states they're working with developers to support "Full Force"

I hope that whatever PD implements for "Full Force" will heavily overlap with the existing wheel bases.

Edit: After watching the Boosted Media video linked above I don't believe PD/Fanatecs utilization of the API for the new wheel will have residual benefits for DD-Pro owners. SMFH...
Yup it looks like it'll only be on the new wheels. Who knows if PD will even support it in GT7. I don't think that's a guarantee either but seems like they would.
 
BWX
Yup it looks like it'll only be on the new wheels. Who knows if PD will even support it in GT7. I don't think that's a guarantee either but seems like they would.
I agree, nothing is ever guaranteed with PD. However... I don't think Fanatec won't allow PD to sabotage the debut of their new wheel lineup.

At the very least (as evident in the video above) they'll hold PD hostage until they get it implemented for GT7. But I can DEFINITELY see a situation where PD doesn't implement it for GT8 and leaves us in the dark for 9 months lol.
 
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The only reason I mentioned that is because of the post below.

Fanatec Engineer states they're working with developers to support "Full Force"

I hope that whatever PD implements for "Full Force" will heavily overlap with the existing wheel bases.

Edit: After watching the Boosted Media video linked above I don't believe PD/Fanatecs utilization of the API for the new wheel will have residual benefits for DD-Pro owners. SMFH...
We will have to wait for full detailed tear-downs etc but it might simply be that CSL DD and DD Pro lack some specific internal hardware to support FullForce or it might just be that earlier wheels in the line up with a lower slew-rate can't implement FullForce without compromising other aspects of FFB. Hopefully it's not just Fanatec trying to sell upgrades.
 
We will have to wait for full detailed tear-downs etc but it might simply be that CSL DD and DD Pro lack some specific internal hardware to support FullForce or it might just be that earlier wheels in the line up with a lower slew-rate can't implement FullForce without compromising other aspects of FFB. Hopefully it's not just Fanatec trying to sell upgrades.
Yep, I'm looking forward to it!
 

Looks to be a good product in general.

A rather interesting thing in this video and BM do not seem to have realised, regards the new "Full Force".
Will, highlighted with this "sample wheel" but he mentioned the finished version may not offer.

He demoed using a PC sound device to output tactile/haptics directly to the wheel shaft/rim.
*I believe this is something currently few if any other DD wheel base can do, nor is it possible with "True Force" wheels.

*IIRC, the closest thing to this as a feature was the SimXperience DD wheels that used Simvibe but this is vastly inferior to Simhub for tactile tone generation...

Can somebody please bring to Fanatecs attention....
It would be very wise to keep this as a feature for the final version and the simple reason is...

With Simhub which thousands of PC/Console owners already use, we could then as a community create specific tactile effects for the wheel, no different than we do for tactile transducers. If this was possible then owners would be able to enjoy some enhanced immersion and not need necessarily wait months and months for developer support with "Full Force" to be added to specific game titles.

I understand from my own research/testing, that yes, the official method with "True Force" which Fanatec are modelling this on. It can use "recorded samples" for the different effects elements which the game has as audio and (not just basic tone generation). I am probably one of few who already shared briefly on these forums a few months ago how "True Force" operated with such.

Yet for this to be done right, and improve over how Logitech have it implemented. It is vital important that the game developer incorporates as many individual volume sliders (for separate effects) as possible. Or at the very least ensures constant effects like (engine/road texture) can be individually controlled +/- to other effects.

Most people I have seen want a way to reduce engine but be able to increase roadbumps/curb detail. Yet in a lot of "True Force" supported titles different audio elements are grouped together as one controlled bus/arrangement. In most titles, we just do not have enough control for a user to generate their own preferred "effects mix" to be output to the wheel.

The disappointing thing is, its not as if titles like GT7 are then getting Logitech/Developer updates or improvements made, so frustratingly, it just seems the technology is not being best implemented and on all or enough AAA titles.



early test I showed previously using spectrum analysis tools to see what frequencies are being generated from True Force. Its then easy to compare this to the games speaker/audio mix.


* If Fanatec could enable 3 possible options to toggle how these new wheels operated.

1. OFF = No haptics/wheel tactile
2. ON = Full Force *with supported games
3. AM = Audio Mode (Simhub / Shakeit Soundcard Control)

If option 3 was made possible, then within days/weeks, content creators for Simhub, quite acquainted with building tactile effects. Could come up with (tone generated) immersion enhancements for the wheel. The beauty is with Simhub and the level of control it offers, unlike what we see with "True Force" is that a user would have much more control over which/how many effects they wanted to be generated on the wheel but also full control over their volumes.

We can add tactile transducer units to the wheel base or wheel base shelf and do this, but its not the same thing as having a wheel be able to directly transmit "audio/haptics" into the wheels shaft and wheels attached rim.

I really hope its not to late for Fanatec to consider implementing such but maybe things are more complicated.
 
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Looks to be a good product in general.

A rather interesting thing in this video and BM do not seem to have realised, regards the new "Full Force".
Will, highlighted with this "sample wheel" but he mentioned the finished version may not offer.

He demoed using a PC sound device to output tactile/haptics directly to the wheel shaft/rim.
*I believe this is something currently few if any other DD wheel base can do, nor is it possible with "True Force" wheels.

*IIRC, the closest thing to this as a feature was the SimXperience DD wheels that used Simvibe but this is vastly inferior to Simhub for tactile tone generation...

Can somebody please bring to Fanatecs attention....
It would be very wise to keep this as a feature for the final version and the simple reason is...

With Simhub which thousands of PC/Console owners already use, we could then as a community create specific tactile effects for the wheel, no different than we do for tactile transducers. If this was possible then owners would be able to enjoy some enhanced immersion and not need necessarily wait months and months for developer support with "Full Force" to be added to specific game titles.

I understand from my own research/testing, that yes, the official method with "True Force" which Fanatec are modelling this on. It can use "recorded samples" for the different effects elements which the game has as audio and (not just basic tone generation). I am probably one of few who already shared briefly on these forums a few months ago how "True Force" operated with such.

Yet for this to be done right, and improve over how Logitech have it implemented. It is vital important that the game developer incorporates as many individual volume sliders (for separate effects) as possible. Or at the very least ensures constant effects like (engine/road texture) can be individually controlled +/- to other effects.

Most people I have seen want a way to reduce engine but be able to increase roadbumps/curb detail. Yet in a lot of "True Force" supported titles different audio elements are grouped together as one controlled bus/arrangement. In most titles, we just do not have enough control for a user to generate their own preferred "effects mix" to be output to the wheel.

The disappointing thing is, its not as if titles like GT7 are then getting Logitech/Developer updates or improvements made, so frustratingly, it just seems the technology is not being best implemented and on all or enough AAA titles.



early test I showed previously using spectrum analysis tools to see what frequencies are being generated from True Force. Its then easy to compare this to the games speaker/audio mix.


* If Fanatec could enable 3 possible options to toggle how these new wheels operated.

1. OFF = No haptics/wheel tactile
2. ON = Full Force *with supported games
3. AM = Audio Mode (Simhub / Shakeit Soundcard Control)

If option 3 was made possible, then within days/weeks, content creators for Simhub, quite acquainted with building tactile effects. Could come up with (tone generated) immersion enhancements for the wheel. The beauty is with Simhub and the level of control it offers, unlike what we see with "True Force" is that a user would have much more control over which/how many effects they wanted to be generated on the wheel but also full control over their volumes.

We can add tactile transducer units to the wheel base or wheel base shelf and do this, but its not the same thing as having a wheel be able to directly transmit "audio/haptics" into the wheels shaft and wheels attached rim.

I really hope its not to late for Fanatec to consider implementing such but maybe things are more complicated.
This is such a good idea and sure sounds like relatively low hanging fruit. It would be a great way to expand the capability of these wheels in nearly all PC games and GT7. I also appreciate that Thomas Jackermeier liked your post too. ;)
 
This is such a good idea and sure sounds like relatively low hanging fruit. It would be a great way to expand the capability of these wheels in nearly all PC games and GT7. I also appreciate that Thomas Jackermeier liked your post too. ;)
Seriously! If they give me a way to bypass PD's half-baked FFB implementation, I'll buy this wheel ASAP.
 
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