Fat PS3 Issues

[Snake1405]

Well I wouldn't take my console to you for repair. Sorry but I wouldn't and I didn't say to use a credit card but something flexible LIKE a credit card! A credit card is too coarse and has a way less than perferct finish. The PS3 doesn't have two cores, it has two processing units, with one core each. One is the custom central, the other is the custom graphics, called Cell and RSX respectively, as you correctly state

The logic of only needing the paste in the middle of the CPU is totally flawed. IC's dissipate heat over the entire surface, not just where the core is. One thing you DO NOT do is apply excess pressure to the P.C.B. It can damage other IC's, surface mount components, solder joints, component legs etc as well as the board itself, especially when you are dealing with multi layer P.C.B's. Boards aren't flexible, aren't supposed to be flexible and most certainly aren't designed to 'be' flexed, which is exactly what will happen when applying thermal compound in that way. Besides' there are more than the CPU and GPU that needs re-pasting.

When the heatsinks/exhausts are finally put in place in the PS3, they are screwed to a metal brace not the board.

If air bubbles are left after spreading, then the person applying the compound shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

Oh, incase you're wondering. I was taught by a well qualified electronics engineer, who happened to build mixing desks for the BBC.

Each to their own though, if that's how you want to do the job and you're comfortable doing it, fair enough.

I re-applied thermal compound several years ago as the YLOD started to rear it's ugly head, in the exact same way. The CPU's and heatsinks have never benn split since. My console runs quiter than a slim and not far off a superslim and barring a blu-ray assembly swap, has never skipped a beat.. It can be left running all day. Yes it does fire the fan up when needed (usually with DUST 514) and noisier than usual, but when it's not running at high RPM it's quiet.

I know there are two process units, was my mistake by writing that. Did you see the video I put above? Using a credit card or something else it's no the problem, the problem is the method. How do you know the spreader method actually works if you can't see the effects because of the heatsink? Now, watch the video.

Clearly the pressure method works with the pressure of the heatsink when you put it over the heatspreader. The pressure is enough to spread all the paste over the heatspreader and if you put the heatsink like it has to be, like it was before of doing this, nothing will happen with the board or solder joints. Professional people use this method, I just use the method that I know it works better.

BTW, it is not necessary to put paste all over the heatspreader, it's important to put paste where the chips are.

 

[Oberheim]

I know there are two process units, was my mistake by writing that. Did you see the video I put above? Using a credit card or something else it's no the problem, the problem is the method. How do you know the spreader method actually works if you can't see the effects because of the heatsink? Now, watch the video.

Clearly the pressure method works with the pressure of the heatsink when you put it over the heatspreader. The pressure is enough to spread all the paste over the heatspreader and if you put the heatsink like it has to be, like it was before of doing this, nothing will happen with the board or solder joints. Professional people use this method, I just use the method that I know it works better.

BTW, it is not necessary to put paste all over the heatspreader, it's important to put paste where the chips are.

Nothing will happen to the board when you re-assemble the heatsink because the heatsink is attached to a metal brace, not the board. I made that quiet clear. When pressure is applied to the IC's as in those videos, the board is FLEXING. It can do nothing else but flex. If the pressure required to spread the compound turns the joints of the hands white, that is too much pressure and enough to cause damage.

So you're telling me that any IC you look at, you know exactly where the transistors are? I din't think so. The transistors themselves, whether centralised or decentralised to to the unit, all take power from and pass it through the legs at the edge of the IC. As such, the transistors rhemselves are designed to radiate heat to the entire IC. On IC's with a metalised cover, the material of the cover is a heat conductive, it's molecular structure dissipates the heat to it's neighbouring molecule. Have ever put your finger on a working IC and found that the edges are cold and just the centre is hot? No you haven't. There are quite a lot of heatsinks mounted to IC's using thermal transfer pads. They are designed to fit the IC in use snd cover the entire surface.

I know the spreader has done it's job without needing the heatsink in place, the same way I knew I'd perfectly applied filler to vehicle panel when I was an aprentice panel beater/sprayer when I left school (air bubbles in filler usually explode when the vehicle is put into the filtration/baking oven when spraying). It's called skill. How do you know, once you've applied the heatsink that the pressure method has worked? After all, a plastic panel has been placed and removed from there and please don't tell me the compound stays perfectly flat. You also run the risk of damageing the IC surface itself through chips and scrapes.

I've worked in 3 industries since leaving school, automotive (panel beater/sprayer, qualified vehicle technician at Toad Incar), audio visual (high end hi-fi & visual company, never seen an IC with compound in the centre only and some of these products are in the tens of thousands each) and for the last 15 years, an IT systems engineer. So you might say I know what works, what doesn't work and what won't work well. Let me tell you, if I see any of my staff put thermal paste just in the centre of a CPU and then fit the heatsink/fan, they're out the door. It is industry standard to cover the IC if the adjoining cooling device covers the entire surface of the IC. The heatsink of the PS3 covers the entire Cell and RSX IC's.

Lastly, I KNOW it works. My PS3 has worked flawlessly since launch (as I've said several times) and, NOTHING I've ever repaired or assembled that requires the use of thermal compound has EVER failed. I've SEEN results of boards that have had pressure used to spread the compound. Cracked boards, IC damage and component damage to name a few.

I'm withdrawing from this thread, there's nothing else to be said.

 

[Snake1405]

Nothing will happen to the board when you re-assemble the heatsink because the heatsink is attached to a metal brace, not the board. I made that quiet clear. When pressure is applied to the IC's as in those videos, the board is FLEXING. It can do nothing else but flex. If the pressure required to spread the compound turns the joints of the hands white, that is too much pressure and enough to cause damage.

So you're telling me that any IC you look at, you know exactly where the transistors are? I din't think so. The transistors themselves, whether centralised or decentralised to to the unit, all take power from and pass it through the legs at the edge of the IC. As such, the transistors rhemselves are designed to radiate heat to the entire IC. On IC's with a metalised cover, the material of the cover is a heat conductive, it's molecular structure dissipates the heat to it's neighbouring molecule. Have ever put your finger on a working IC and found that the edges are cold and just the centre is hot? No you haven't. There are quite a lot of heatsinks mounted to IC's using thermal transfer pads. They are designed to fit the IC in use snd cover the entire surface.

I know the spreader has done it's job without needing the heatsink in place, the same way I knew I'd perfectly applied filler to vehicle panel when I was an aprentice panel beater/sprayer when I left school (air bubbles in filler usually explode when the vehicle is put into the filtration/baking oven when spraying). It's called skill. How do you know, once you've applied the heatsink that the pressure method has worked? After all, a plastic panel has been placed and removed from there and please don't tell me the compound stays perfectly flat. You also run the risk of damageing the IC surface itself through chips and scrapes.

I've worked in 3 industries since leaving school, automotive (panel beater/sprayer, qualified vehicle technician at Toad Incar), audio visual (high end hi-fi & visual company, never seen an IC with compound in the centre only and some of these products are in the tens of thousands each) and for the last 15 years, an IT systems engineer. So you might say I know what works, what doesn't work and what won't work well. Let me tell you, if I see any of my staff put thermal paste just in the centre of a CPU and then fit the heatsink/fan, they're out the door. It is industry standard to cover the IC if the adjoining cooling device covers the entire surface of the IC. The heatsink of the PS3 covers the entire Cell and RSX IC's.

Lastly, I KNOW it works. My PS3 has worked flawlessly since launch (as I've said several times) and, NOTHING I've ever repaired or assembled that requires the use of thermal compound has EVER failed. I've SEEN results of boards that have had pressure used to spread the compound. Cracked boards, IC damage and component damage to name a few.

I'm withdrawing from this thread, there's nothing else to be said.

Look buddy, I don't use my strength to put pressure over the heatspreader, the brackets do.

How do I know where to put the paste?

Intel or AMD have the data on their site, it tells you how to apply the paste. In some cases a dot in the middle, a thin line in the middle, a cross, etc. I'm not inventing nothing man, this people recommends you to do that. It's quite easy to understand, the pressure is natural, you can be sure that the paste will be spread fine because the heatsink, with the brackets, are doing the job, not you. I did it a lot of times, and the unit is tough, that tells you that there's no air in the middle. Who knows how good and fair is the cover of the IC using the pressure method? The heatsink.

In the case of the RSX, you need to put a little more, just to be sure that the paste will reach to the corners.

If you believe using spread method is good, well I can't do nothing. I'm only telling you why I think this is the best method. It covers with total safety.

 

[Oberheim]

Look buddy, I don't use my strength to put pressure over the heatspreader, the brackets do.

How do I know where to put the paste?

Intel or AMD have the data on their site, it tells you how to apply the paste. In some cases a dot in the middle, a thin line in the middle, a cross, etc. I'm not inventing nothing man, this people recommends you to do that. It's quite easy to understand, the pressure is natural, you can be sure that the paste will be spread fine because the heatsink, with the brackets, are doing the job, not you. I did it a lot of times, and the unit is tough, that tells you that there's no air in the middle. Who knows how good and fair is the cover of the IC using the pressure method? The heatsink.

In the case of the RSX, you need to put a little more, just to be sure that the paste will reach to the corners.

If you believe using spread method is good, well I can't do nothing. I'm only telling you why I think this is the best method. It covers with total safety.

I'm not your buddy and good for Intel and AMD. I take it you're in a blind panick when the chip doesn't say Intel or AMD on it. You weren't telling me why you think it's the best method, you were telling me it's the only method.

Of course it goes without saying, said chip makers have never had problems with over heating chips down to poor assembly have they. After all, that's what this thread is for. The very reason Sony has this issue with PS3's is because of being cheap and not applying thermal compound in the correct way!

You mentioned 'Professionals do it this way'. I'm a professional and I don't, nor did the two City & Guilds with distinction guys who taught me.

Really, post all you like. I'm done with this thread. Boring, head, brick wall spring to mind. Happy pasting....

EDIT: Your 2nd picture. I rest my case, look at the amount of thermal compound on the mini PCB's those chips are on. You do realise that some of the cheap compound can be a little conductive and capacitive? It's smeared across the group of surface mount resistors on the right! The one on the left with the great big line of overspill on the main PCB on the left edge, 3/4 down..... It's DAMAGED! Bravo! Perfect example of of why NOT to use the pressure method and how not to do the job. Do hope that isn't yours. You have my sympathy if it is. Good day Sir.

 

[eSZee]

Explain yourself.

The credit method worked for me the very first time after about 6-8 tries with the rice sized glob in the middle.
If you use the spread by pressure method, you'll notice that a very very small area of the chip is covered, which would be fine on a PC since those chips are usually center focused with components, as shown in one of the pics.
Anyway, 2 days of trying with rice grain sized globs with several different compounds(as5, ceramique, thermalright, coolermaster) got me nowhere(this is the method I've used with my PCs for over a decade so I know that it works.. Single try with CC method and I was good to go.
The stock tension plates are crap. Had to bend them to get more pressure on chips.

 

[carfanatic45]

I have a fat 74GB if i'm not mistaken, but I've gone through The Last of Us, GT5, GT5 Prologue, Uncarted 2-3, The Walking Dead 1-5, and other data intensive games. GT6 has frozen at least 5-6 times and it looses sound in photomode occasionally. I'm guessing it's just early game issues, but you never know.

 

[Rrralphster]

People still whining about their FAT PS3's???
And arguing about it?
About paste etc?

FAT PS3's are not supposed to last this long.
Anyone who has his/her's still running is seriously lucky (or used it for about 2 hours a month...).

If you are going to ague about something, make it worth it....


And both paste methods work. Been doing it since the nVidia ti4400 / AMD K8 series.
Pressure method is less messy.... that's all.


(P.S. been doing it since the first "custom cooling" has been available in the Netherlands.)

 

[KamatsuKyoto]

Same here. PS3 60GB Backwards compatible with a 640GB HDD. All games run flawlessly (even GTA V)! Only GT Academy and GT6 crashes. It's obviously a programming problem, problably related to the "auto-install" feature. Why the game won't let us install all the content of the game if we want like GT5?

GT6 corrupted my HD and now, even formated, the game keeps crashing randomly (dealherships, in the middle of races, garage).

I have applied new thermalpaste about 3 months ago and my console it's running fine (except in GT6).

Come on PD.... ¬¬

 

[Hastatus]

FAT PS3's are not supposed to last this long.
Anyone who has his/her's still running is seriously lucky (or used it for about 2 hours a month...).

My fatty 80GB (original 5400 rpm hdd) has no trouble with GT6 (runs smoother than GT5). I had my console on for at least two months (24-hours a day) on several different occasions (running GT5 and other games). I've put plenty of mileage on my system and taken it to the max: but I know how to maintain my machines.

 

[DBM]

One Tip too keep the life of you fatty longer.
Never turn off after a hard game, always go back to XMB and wait for fan speed to drop.
As the CPU will be very hot, and if you stop the fan while at it hottest it will actually get hotter than when running the game at full speed.

I'm running a UK pre-order 60GB fatty but with a 500GB upgrade.

 

[xSNAKEx]

My fatty 80GB (original 5400 rpm hdd) has no trouble with GT6 (runs smoother than GT5). I had my console on for at least two months (24-hours a day) on several different occasions (running GT5 and other games). I've put plenty of mileage on my system and taken it to the max: but I know how to maintain my machines.

lol I doubt that know how to "maintain your consoles" More like luck.

Also, no way GT6 runs better than GT5 on any system. FPS in GT6 is much less.

 

[KamatsuKyoto]

1.02 is out and nothing changes... Actually changed to worse. Now before the game starts it says "could not save" and if I want to try again. If I try again the PS3 freezes. My save is still intact at least.

Now I'm officially giving up of GT6 ... :/

 

[WhiteShadw]

1.02 is out and nothing changes... Actually changed to worse. Now before the game starts it says "could not save" and if I want to try again. If I try again the PS3 freezes. My save is still intact at least.

Now I'm officially giving up of GT6 ... :/

Has it improved yet?