Ferrari F40, why so bad?

[balang_479]

I cant understand why PD made the F40 so bad compared to other cars... I thought I would try to replicate the 2:25 seconds it did round Suzuka in real life... put some N3s on it, took ABS off and CORRECTED the weight (how did they get this wrong) to 1149kg (yes still 49kg extra) and went round.

Ive watched many F40 videos and it is defenately not this undriveable, N3s and it barely corners and it wheelspins in a straight line in 2nd, which in real life it doesnt.... S1s made the car alot more realistic and I did a 2:21 which by videogames is very good. But the tires that the F40 came with are defenatly not S1s, the Pirelli P Zero from 1987 are old, poor compound and definitely not the same as other cars with S1s like the Subarus with theyre RE070. I gets me so frustrated how they get these things wrong. Ive complained about it before and i will again, the tires system is RUBBISH!

 

[s15specr]

Yeah man a saw the weight was overdone on the F40 on gt5p, its weird tho coz in the showroom it only says like 1100kg but it says more than that on quick tune.

 

[Lion-Face]

Its not that bad, just bad compared with the supercars of today. What times are you getting around Suzuka? Tuned to 550pp on N3 tires, I have clocked a lap of 2:28.xxx, and that was a good few months back, i'm sure now with my newer tune and better understanding of the car, leaving the Power at stock, a 2:25.xxx should be achievable.

 

[jacksmith]

You are right and I started a thread about japanese influence in gt series.All the japanese cars are treated differently than their european and american counterparts.japanese cars seem to handle better,have better tyre and faster.Their is no way in real life a subaru can beat an M3 and an f430 and the f40 fiasco is ridiculous.

 

[Stotty]

I don't think it's only Japanese cars, but PD have got the performance of some cars set up a bit unrealistic... a good example is the Ferrari California, which is right up with the tuned Clio and the tuned Elise lap time wise at 700pp Suzuka... and faster than the 430.

 

[sher_da_putt]

this is little off topic but when you talk about weight, do PD add the drivers weight to the car, or does the car drive as theres no one inside it. I mean all simulators must have the same problem.

BTW I agree with you on the F40, another thing that bugs me is the 0-60 time, it seems that you have to keep hold of the brake and the accelerator, then let go of the brake to get that 3.8 second time. But when you do it from stand still, the turbo lag is painfully long, I know F40's are known to have turbo lag, but, its annoying.

 

[s15specr]

I don't think it's only Japanese cars, but PD have got the performance of some cars set up a bit unrealistic... a good example is the Ferrari California, which is right up with the tuned Clio and the tuned Elise lap time wise at 700pp Suzuka... and faster than the 430.

Sorry I could be wrong here but in real life wouldnt the F430 be faster since its mid engined and has more power?, the F430 always looked racer to me

 

[jacksmith]

Its not that bad, just bad compared with the supercars of today. What times are you getting around Suzuka? Tuned to 550pp on N3 tires, I have clocked a lap of 2:28.xxx, and that was a good few months back, i'm sure now with my newer tune and better understanding of the car, leaving the Power at stock, a 2:25.xxx should be achievable.

I think I managed a 2.21.something before with pp 627 and n1s.

 

[Stotty]

BTW I agree with you on the F40, another thing that bugs me is the 0-60 time, it seems that you have to keep hold of the brake and the accelerator, then let go of the brake to get that 3.8 second time. But when you do it from stand still, the turbo lag is painfully long, I knoww F40's are known to have turbo lag, but, its annoying.

Would be the same in RL if you just tried to drive away from low revs. To get 3.8s 0-60 would require you to build up the revs somewhat before releasing the clutch.

The F40 is a 20 year old car... it might have the straight line performance of a modern supercar as it's got close to 500bhp and low weight... but it's unrealistic to expect it to handle and corner like a modern car.

Sorry I could be wrong here but in real life wouldnt the F430 be faster since its mid engined and has more power?, the F430 always looked racer to me

Exactly the point I was making... the 430 would be much quicker on a track than the California.

 

[sandfisch]

....

Ive watched many F40 videos and it is defenately not this undriveable, N3s and it barely corners and it wheelspins in a straight line in 2nd, which in real life it doesnt....

I don't want to sound too harsh but this sentence actually disqualifies most of your post. How can you judge from a video how a car actually handles?

 

[Stotty]

Some modern day thoughts on the F40...


From Autocar.com....
They say you shouldn’t meet your heroes; the potential for disappointment such that it could undo years of admiration. But even knowing this, when Andrew Frankel called to say he was filming a ‘Meet the Ancestors’ video, and would I like help out by pedalling a Ferrari F40 for an afternoon, I couldn’t help but say yes.

Having grown up with posters of the F40 on my bedroom wall, the chance to drive one is about as exciting as it gets.

Before the driving though there was a lot of looking and listening to do, examining the detail in the Kevlar construction, feeling the lightness of the doors and discovering how weirdly appealing a felt dashboard can be.

But it was when I first heard it run, that I really started to lose the plot. Even with a completely standard exhaust, the ripping, popping mechanical shriek is so loud it would have you ejected from most track days. I could have listened to it running up and down that runway all day.

But that would have meant passing up on the opportunity to get behind the wheel. The last thing Andrew said before pushing the door shut, was “It’s easily binnable in a straight line, in the dry, and we’ve insured it for £260,000”

This is what happens when you put together the following: Very wide straight piece of runway, old hard tyres, second gear and full throttle. At 2000rpm the rushing noise starts, but all remains calm. At 3000rpm things start to fizzle, the speed already building yet still relatively slowly. At 4000rpm the boost gauge flutters. Then bang, the world goes upside down.

The engine seemingly misses about 2000rpm, jumping straight to 6500rpm. At first I think the rear tyres have lost traction, which I pretty sure they did for a bit, but a quick squint at the speedo shows we’ve just added mucho mph in the time it takes to say… Well I won’t repeat what I said, but it wasn’t a particularly long word.

As it happens I’d figured a Nissan GT-R only days before, but the way the F40 accelerates on boost makes the Nissan feel pedestrian. It is just so raw, unforgiving, brutal, and brilliantly, addictively fast. What is must be like to drive one on a wet B road doesn’t bear thinking about.

So having met a hero, I’m even more in awe. It takes something serious to relegate a 430 Scuderia (which we had along to represent the modern context) to second best, but then the F40 is a proper piece of kit.

 

[Lion-Face]

I don't think it's only Japanese cars, but PD have got the performance of some cars set up a bit unrealistic... a good example is the Ferrari California, which is right up with the tuned Clio and the tuned Elise lap time wise at 700pp Suzuka... and faster than the 430.

Well your comparing the times to a 700pp tuned cars. That could be the PP being off and/or the quick tune settings not quite right. Have you compared stock lap times between the F430 and the California? Just having a look at the Time Trial Rankings for Suzuka/Pro/F430/California, the top time for both cars is a 2:09.xxx (on S2's)

Just had a blast around Suzuka with the F40, have hit 2:27.4xx so far in a few laps, and have been .4 up in the first sector on that time but couldn't hold it together. I'm sure more practice a 2:26.xxx isn't far off, and the fastest guys around here should be able to match the lap record of the F40 on stock settings/tires.

EDIT: Although I know the Weight in the Showroom says 1100kg, the US F40 had a stock weight of 1350kg, which is the car represented in the game. I just wish they would give us the original F40 @ 1100kg...maybe in GT5 fingers crossed

 

[Stotty]

Some lap times for comparrison...

Fiorano
F40 1:29.6
F430 1:27.0
Enzo 1:24.9

Bedford West Circuit
Cali 1:25.0
F430 1:24.2
Enzo 1:21.3

Draw your own conclusions...

 

[Zer0]

This is obviously a old thread but I was looking at a F40 for sale (or was) and noticed this

http://www.ferrari-forsale.com/F40-1989-ForSale


From Nigel Mansells old 1989 F40, Thats a long way from 1100kg's. Also shows us the weight distribution.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3456712&postcount=26

 

[Leonidae]

And about Ferrari California.. the weight is way off. It should be around 1750kg. In addition, I don't find F40 to be bad. It just needs adaptation to the style it has to be driven, unlike modern cars that adapt to YOUR style.

 

[Boffin]

YES...I once thought the F40 was undrivable. Since I loved the car so much, I needed to know how to drive it - so I sat myself down and drove for laps and laps of Suzuka on S2s.

I love driving it now. I could do 40 laps on Suzuka without getting bored.

 

[Leonidae]

driving RWDs on Eiger taught me throttle control that was necessary for taming the F40. after I had learned that, F40 suddenly felt like it wanted to do anything I wanted. no more understeer, oversteer, all kinds of steer or locking brakes or wheelspin. just a rush of acceleration and Evora-like handling.

 

[Boffin]

Suzuka was harder than any other course in tat car because I still run a 6axis, and those slight crests and fast sweepers love to get the old girl real unsettled at the rear - so throttle control at high speeds as well as smooth steering was what had to be learnt in my case.

That and what gear to be in. It took me a while to get over the long gear ratios.

 

[Leonidae]

I see.. I guess it helped that I have G25 and pedals..

 

[niky]

I don't think it's only Japanese cars, but PD have got the performance of some cars set up a bit unrealistic... a good example is the Ferrari California, which is right up with the tuned Clio and the tuned Elise lap time wise at 700pp Suzuka... and faster than the 430.

@Stotty: RE: Cali laptime at 700pp. Real-life comparisons go out the window with PP tuning.

You are right and I started a thread about japanese influence in gt series.All the japanese cars are treated differently than their european and american counterparts.japanese cars seem to handle better,have better tyre and faster.Their is no way in real life a subaru can beat an M3 and an f430 and the f40 fiasco is ridiculous.

Which, I guess, is why the Lotus Exige is so fast... because it has a Japanese engine... despite being a British car from a company owned by Malaysian stockholders? And the Clio is definitely Japanese... wait... no it isn't. But the Citroen GT is... isn't it?

People keep complaining about this... and so? What do you know about what tire is on a Subie as stock? Evo tires in Japan have always been borderline R-comp... and while Subaru WRX rubber has always left a lot to be desired, STI rubber is up there with Evo rubber. On short technical tracks, the Japanese rally-specials have always been competitive with the M3 in terms of lap times, despite not being as good on really fast tracks.

And let's not get started on GT-R rubber, which some unnameable people contend to be "cheater" tires due to their massive grip.

Which car is better merely depends on which car is better. The Honda Integra is a much better car than the other front-drivers in the game in real-life, so it's the fastest of that subset.

The Nissan GT-R has been shown to lap faster than the standard F430 and the 599B in real life, so it's faster in-game.

The real problem with GT5P is that, without a steering wheel with a good set of pedals, it's frustratingly difficult to achieve perfect throttle control of rear-wheel drive cars with just a controller. Which makes it difficult to produce perfect laps with stupidly powerful RWD cars. Of course, with some practice, you can finally get that F430 to run competitively with the GT-R, though throttle control is always an issue.

That said, the F40 itself is just as I'd expect it, from contemporary road tests... neat handling, terrible grip, incredible turbo lag and incredibly terrifying to drive.

 

[Ardius]

The F40 is perfectly realistic, it even has the trademark extreme turbo lag with a massive boost at higher revs, as mentioned earlier in that quote from Autocar.com.
Its a car that has to be driven properly and I enjoy it immensely, its tendencey to step out at high speed and over crests, etc, makes it very rewarding to drive fast.

Also, with my current gearing on it, it has such great acceleration in 2nd and 3rd gear I can outrun most of the competition at 700PP usually making up for its slowness in corners, as long as I can keep the other cars behind me!

I'd just like to ask people to be more careful when following me in this car, as I prefer to have the brakes quite long in it and I have to start braking a fair bit earlier.

 

[balang_479]

I don't want to sound too harsh but this sentence actually disqualifies most of your post. How can you judge from a video how a car actually handles?

In best motoring they have cameras on the pedals and revs so you can see how the car reacts... they did a street test, floor it in 2nd gear and it gripped like a charm coming out of a turn. It just seems like its very unsettled, while if you watch them drive it they can be pretty aggressive and still make the car grip.

The fact that you guys are getting close to the lap time is the thing, in other cars we could easily beat it because its not real life, so the same (maybe more so because the F40 must be a scary car to drive) should apply... Thats why i believe the OEM tires should be S1s, but theres no way a 20 year old street tire is S1.

 

[Zer0]

This is what happens when you put together the following: Very wide straight piece of runway, old hard tyres, second gear and full throttle. At 2000rpm the rushing noise starts, but all remains calm. At 3000rpm things start to fizzle, the speed already building yet still relatively slowly. At 4000rpm the boost gauge flutters. Then bang, the world goes upside down.

The engine seemingly misses about 2000rpm, jumping straight to 6500rpm. At first I think the rear tyres have lost traction, which I pretty sure they did for a bit, but a quick squint at the speedo shows we’ve just added mucho mph in the time it takes to say… Well I won’t repeat what I said, but it wasn’t a particularly long word.

As it happens I’d figured a Nissan GT-R only days before, but the way the F40 accelerates on boost makes the Nissan feel pedestrian. It is just so raw, unforgiving, brutal, and brilliantly, addictively fast.

Thats's exactly how it works on GT5P, an amazing car to drive.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

I must admit, I prefer the F40's handleing to the F430, which is surprising for an older car.

 

[niky]

In best motoring they have cameras on the pedals and revs so you can see how the car reacts... they did a street test, floor it in 2nd gear and it gripped like a charm coming out of a turn. It just seems like its very unsettled, while if you watch them drive it they can be pretty aggressive and still make the car grip.

The fact that you guys are getting close to the lap time is the thing, in other cars we could easily beat it because its not real life, so the same (maybe more so because the F40 must be a scary car to drive) should apply... Thats why i believe the OEM tires should be S1s, but theres no way a 20 year old street tire is S1.

Floored at what rpm and speed? As previously stated, the F40 has incredible turbo lag... which means tire-roasting wheelspin only occurs once the boost kicks in at higher rpms.

If you drive it like you would an ordinary car in real life... keeping the revs below 3000, it's a very tractable car in the game... all you have to do is remember to lift slightly once the turbos spool up... easy to do if your butt-meter is relaying the increased vibration from skipping, spinning rear tires and your inner ears are registering the sudden surge of acceleration from the turbos kicking in. Not so easy if your only clue is a bunch of blurry pixels indicating that the car is now going sideways across the track.

 

[Peter]

Time for a little review of the F40, made completely on the spot by me.

Ferrari F40, a dream come true

When you look around the car, at the un-equipped, uncomfortable interior, the first thing you think is "What a piece of ****". But as you look at the outside, at the sexy, lightweight body, you are a drooling waterfall.

I remember when I was little playing with my little Hotwheels Ferraris, looking at my dad's car magazines, only for the pictures of those european exotics that i'd only be able to dream of ever even sitting in.

Well, here I am, living the dream, sitting in it, and i'm about to live the heaven, actually driving it. I'm so exited, the only thing else I could wish for was a more comfortable seat. I turn the car on, and the first thing I say is "holy ****!!!" I pull out of the pitlane for a practise lap.

After warming up my tires and getting used to it, I pull up ot the start/finish straight of Suzuka and get ready to launch. Months of planning and organizing all puts me here now. The red lights start to flash, 1,2,3,4,5. I'm about to launch this 450hp, featherweight, twin turbo, V8 lion. And at that moment, I say to myself "PJ, don't stall this b*tch!!!!!"

The light goes green.

That's all I have, now I want you, GTPlanet, to continue from this point. Care to have a try 80Y?

 

[Leonidae]

I thought it had 480bhp+..

 

[Boffin]

That's all I have, now I want you, GTPlanet, to continue from this point. Care to have a try 80Y?

Maybe....but everyone please put them in the thread i started at the start of the year so' to not go off topic.

 

[balang_479]

By the simple fact that the real life lap time is hard to beat in the game means that its not as good as in real life... take any other car and you could easily have done what is done in real life...
simple as that.

 

[Lion-Face]

By the simple fact that the real life lap time is hard to beat in the game means that its not as good as in real life... take any other car and you could easily have done what is done in real life...
simple as that.

Could you give examples, car/settings/tires etc for both real life lap records and in game? I'm referring to the 'take any other car' comment here.