FFB 1.12 Update

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Thanks @grog

I mean don't get me wrong they made a good push in the right direction by getting rid of the dampening and going for a more progressive road feeling. At the same time the wheel is just too light to care about that.

I am sorry to sound harsh but if they were not modeling something completely useless to the game as in water temperature gauges (who honestly can justify the waste of time this is) maybe their testers would had seen that something was a wrong.
 
DFGT user here. As most people here have commented earlier, the steering is way to light now. The feedback from the wheel, when driving over curbs and bumps is good though. But I miss the weight from pre 1.12. The lightness makes it hard to be precise when cornering.

My settings at the moment is 10/10.
Used to have 7 before.
 
from my last post, FFB for me is no change.

But I have feel wheel get weak while the FFB Sensitivity in 5 (8 in default), I were used it to try to reduce wheel spin automatically during car is not moving)

You could think FFB Sensitivity is a dead or fade zone of FFB center
 
butter_baby-1016.jpg
The new feedback settings make me feel like I'm driving this over a hot skillet.
 
The_Scotsman4
Can please you tell us what settings you are running?
Click to expand...

10 and 10.

Here is what I'm thinking:

ffb.png

Basically the wheel can't produce more torque than the full effect, which prior to 1.12 came early in comparison to now. That means that a lot of time you had a lot of torque from the wheel, but because it was already at or near max it couldn't increase more so when the "tyre load" (can't think of a better name, but it's of course suspension, weight shift and everything else that affects the force feedback strength) increases you don't notice much or any ffb change.

With 1.12 I've noticed that ffb is generally weaker, but also that it gets stronger as "tyre load" increases. It takes a lot of "tyre load" to get to max torque, and there's only really one or two corners on Circuito de la Sierra where it happens for me (Ferrari 458, SH tyres): It's the slow corners with a bit of banking where I'm also braking while cornering.

I don't know if it's actually true or if it's just a trick of the mind, but this is how it appears to me anyway.

If it is true, then maybe a possible fix could be to let every user draw their own wheel torque curve, much like you can draw exposure curves in photoshop, or level curves in audio programmes...
 
I too can confirm the ffb strength has gone kaput. I barely got my Driving Force Pro and a Playseat 2 weeks ago from craigslist and I was liking the feel of the ffb, with the new patch there is no resistance whatsoever, I can't even "feel" the car.
 
Agree with eran0004, 1.12 update calculating feedback much more smarter, but I guess it was calibrated on strength wheels as T300 and T500(it's major wheel for GT, so it's not a surprise).
PD should make two settings for feedback: start level and top level. Everyone who used 6-10 level of FF on 1.11 on Logitech wheels will sacrifice range of tyre load feeling for the usual strength.
 
is there anybody with a g25/27 who is comfortable with the new force feedback?

i have a g25 and i didn't have force feedback at 10 before, maybe at 8 or 6, i don't quite remember. i admit that there were quite some details missing in the force feedback when driving race cars before, because there was this extreme centering force that dominated over everything. but the feedback for racecars still feels heavy now, despite having much more detail in it. so it has not been entirely a clipping issue and there is no need to water down the feedback for roadcars as much as they did.

i guess all those who say that the force feedback is much improved now either haven't driven a roadcar now or they have a different type of steering wheel. on my g25 it is definately broken. i know that there ought to be a difference between a racecar and a roadcar and that the force should not be as strong as when driving a truck without power steering, but there should be a noticeable feeling for weight transformation and currently there is absolutely none.

i can't feel anything and changing the settings makes no difference at all, setting strength at 10 feels exactly as numb as setting it at 1. prior to this update, i could throw the car into a drift and let the wheel adjust itself to catch it. now its not possible anymore because there simply is no force to speak of that would make the wheel spin. its just dead. i can't catch a slide anymore intuitively and i can't feel any of the details that you guys are talking about, because there is no force whatsoever to show them.
 
It's clear to me that PD is trying to merge the FFB from their Logitech and Thrustmaster implementations. Patch 1.09 basically gave T500 users much of the worst aspects of the Logitech implementation (unneeded deadzone correction causing oscillation on straights, too much centering force relative to other forces given the torque of the T500).

Now it looks like PD has moved to a more future proofed FFB implementation which better uses the torque capabilities of wheels like the T500 (which produces easily twice the torque of the G25, three times the torque of the DFGT).

Next they need to implement a "dynamic range loudness" setting like iRacing does, so that wheels with less powerful motors can be given compressed dynamic range. Ideally they should also implement variable "minimum force" to compensate for differing deadzones (G25 has twice as large minimum force required to get it moving compared to T500 according to iRacing wheel check testing), but I guess that's too much to hope for :)
 
Aside from being too light, I honestly really like this new system. Detail is great now (feel of rough roads, kerbs, rumble strips, etc.), and the feedback per car feels more unique (understeer, limits of grip and so forth), but it's just too light. Increase the weight of the steering, and the FFB will be the best it's ever been in GT.
 
I think this discussion really needs to differentiate between Wheel weight and force feedback effects.
Most people are saying that the force feedback is too weak but I think many mean that the wheel weight is too light. Force feedback is too general of a term, we need to break it into FFB effects and wheel weight. Wheel weight is simple how heavy the wheel feels, FFB effects are the curb effects & bump effects ect. and all other features that can be felt.

Force feedback effects have improved in that they are deeper and more complex, but this fact is being obscured by all the talk of light FFB and general complaints of wheel weight which is totally separate from the FFB effects.


I think all that's needed from PD is a slider/adjustment for wheel weight. The wheel weight ideally should be in the range we are used to already.

The adjusters they gave us today only adjust the centering spring force and force feedback effects, so they really did remove the ability to adjust wheel weight.
 
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eran0004
10 and 10.

Here is what I'm thinking:

View attachment 225540
Basically the wheel can't produce more torque than the full effect, which prior to 1.12 came early in comparison to now. That means that a lot of time you had a lot of torque from the wheel, but because it was already at or near max it couldn't increase more so when the "tyre load" (can't think of a better name, but it's of course suspension, weight shift and everything else that affects the force feedback strength) increases you don't notice much or any ffb change.

With 1.12 I've noticed that ffb is generally weaker, but also that it gets stronger as "tyre load" increases. It takes a lot of "tyre load" to get to max torque, and there's only really one or two corners on Circuito de la Sierra where it happens for me (Ferrari 458, SH tyres): It's the slow corners with a bit of banking where I'm also braking while cornering.

I don't know if it's actually true or if it's just a trick of the mind, but this is how it appears to me anyway.

If it is true, then maybe a possible fix could be to let every user draw their own wheel torque curve, much like you can draw exposure curves in photoshop, or level curves in audio programmes...
Click to expand...
Dude, you could not have said that any better! Exactly how I think it is. And I prefer the constant max torque personally. Also, it would probably take a lot of work for them to put the ability for us to change our curve. But it would be awesome.
 
Dear lord. I can see hours of tinkering with my CSW ahead. I'm confident I can get the strength up pretty high based on the wheel internal settings (before I could make the thing near impossible to turn), but I'm sure that will make the motors much less happy...
 
Got a Fanetec csr elite and its like driving a old van weak and awful. Although the sensation is good if only we had the weight back the same has before then it would be great.....
 
Same problem here, I only got my G27 for 1 month (that was quite a huge investment for me !), and now, because of this ****ing 1.12 update I really regret buying it :(
It really made the force feedback close to none, so the patch seriously affected the feel of the G27, I really hope they'll do something for that !
I mean I tried on different cars and tracks and it's always the same problem, I could literally drive every car on the Nordschleife while holding the wheel with one finger !

Because sadly I also think that that reduces the used price of the wheel now, so selling it will make me loose a HUGE amount of money :(
 
kolio123
Dude, you could not have said that any better! Exactly how I think it is. And I prefer the constant max torque personally. Also, it would probably take a lot of work for them to put the ability for us to change our curve. But it would be awesome.
Click to expand...

Maybe they could at least add an option to use the old settings?
 
@ZedMan1996 Nice post, but you should go back and proofread it. You wrote "prophet" when you meant to write "profit". That greatly changes the meaning! :D

LeGeNd-1
Honestly, I don't think anybody is complaining about the level of detail in the new FFB. It's just the strength that's too weak. I'm not saying FFB 10 is the most realistic either (I run FFB 5-6 depending on car), but it would be nice to have a range of strengths. As it is, the difference between 1-10 in the new settings is less than 1-2 in the old settings.

We just want a nice range of strengths PD, so everyone can tailor the FFB to their liking. Currently Logitech G2x wheels feel lifeless no matter what setting you use.
Click to expand...

This is very well said. The level of detail is fine. There is just no feel to turning the actual wheel. It needs resistance. I feel like a strong wind could turn this steering wheel now. Curbs, rumblestrips, bumps, etc... all feel fine, but I don't feel like I'm turning an actual steering wheel anymore. It feels like a cheap toy. Who knows? Maybe this will lengthen the life of my DFGT?

I just hope I can get used to it, because I have a feeling it's going to stay like this. PD knows what they're doing. They tested DFGT's with the new code along with G25's, G27's, Fanatec Wheels and of course, their new buddy, Thrustmaster and their product line. I refuse to believe for even a second that people at PD commented on the new drastically changed feel of the DFGT and decided to tag it as a problem to be addressed in a future update or hotfix. Either they like the way this feels, or the new FFB code just works better with the newer wheels. I absolutely believe that.

Prior to v1.12 I was running my FFB at 5 and it had a nice balance of resistance and detail in the rumblestrips & curbs, for me. I do believe that turning it much higher than 5, like 9 or 10 just blew out the fine details that FFB provide.
 
Am I the only one G27 user that is happier now with the new FFB settings?

I'm still testing but 7/10 makes me feel every single change on weight or load or even the road way much better than before. Yes, is lighter, but the improvement make me forget the old resistance.

Before the 1.12 update I ran a 2/3 FFB strength.
 
If anyone has played karting, you know that even the setting 8-10 on the Logitech wheels prior to the update is so so weaker than the real thing but at least it is acceptable with some form of feedback. After this update, there is little to no feedback whatever, it is neither realistic nor accurate. I'm talking straight from using a real kart comparison specifically K1 Speed Karts against the karts in game. The force feedback now on maximum setting is even lighter than the steering feedback from a comfy Camry in real life. I know strong resistance is not equal to accurate force feedback as quantity is not equal to quality. The problem here is little to no quantity lol.

My theory is that the update is geared toward some wheels may be the Thrustmaster while ignoring many other wheels including all Logitech wheels plus many others. I also think that the motors in the Logitech wheels are not capable of simulating such strong resistance in a real race cars settings but that is not to blame because ultimately it is comparing apples to oranges.
 
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ZedMan1996
I do hope the notice this, or others at least​
Click to expand...

Could you speak for yourself? And stop trying to educate PD?

Now, if you could also stop making figures up, and change your suggestion to give us the option to increase it back to previous strength levels, I might agree with your comment.
 
Racelouse
is there anybody with a g25/27 who is comfortable with the new force feedback?

i have a g25 and i didn't have force feedback at 10 before, maybe at 8 or 6, i don't quite remember. i admit that there were quite some details missing in the force feedback when driving race cars before, because there was this extreme centering force that dominated over everything. but the feedback for racecars still feels heavy now, despite having much more detail in it. so it has not been entirely a clipping issue and there is no need to water down the feedback for roadcars as much as they did.

i guess all those who say that the force feedback is much improved now either haven't driven a roadcar now or they have a different type of steering wheel. on my g25 it is definately broken. i know that there ought to be a difference between a racecar and a roadcar and that the force should not be as strong as when driving a truck without power steering, but there should be a noticeable feeling for weight transformation and currently there is absolutely none.

i can't feel anything and changing the settings makes no difference at all, setting strength at 10 feels exactly as numb as setting it at 1. prior to this update, i could throw the car into a drift and let the wheel adjust itself to catch it. now its not possible anymore because there simply is no force to speak of that would make the wheel spin. its just dead. i can't catch a slide anymore intuitively and i can't feel any of the details that you guys are talking about, because there is no force whatsoever to show them.
Click to expand...
I have a G27 and I like the change.

Before the update, my FFB was set to 3. After the update, the default was 3, with sensitivity 8. Now the torque feels the same as before, but the sloppy dead zone in the center is reduced and I'm getting more road feel. Some of my lap times improved today, but I can't say that is attributable to the FFB change, or just additional practice.

Yes, I've tested road cars and race cars in every drivetrain configuration.
 
G27 chap here. Pre update ran FFB10.

After update didn't like it at first but had a play and found that this work best for me:

Steering sensitivity 7
Torque 10
Centre 10.

Only had half an hour on it though so not sure if this was best but certainly made the wheel feel similar to what it used to.

Seemed more realistic to me than before, different cars behave differently, will just have to get used to it.
 
eran0004
10 and 10.

Here is what I'm thinking:

View attachment 225540
Basically the wheel can't produce more torque than the full effect, which prior to 1.12 came early in comparison to now. That means that a lot of time you had a lot of torque from the wheel, but because it was already at or near max it couldn't increase more so when the "tyre load" (can't think of a better name, but it's of course suspension, weight shift and everything else that affects the force feedback strength) increases you don't notice much or any ffb change.

With 1.12 I've noticed that ffb is generally weaker, but also that it gets stronger as "tyre load" increases. It takes a lot of "tyre load" to get to max torque, and there's only really one or two corners on Circuito de la Sierra where it happens for me (Ferrari 458, SH tyres): It's the slow corners with a bit of banking where I'm also braking while cornering.

I don't know if it's actually true or if it's just a trick of the mind, but this is how it appears to me anyway.

If it is true, then maybe a possible fix could be to let every user draw their own wheel torque curve, much like you can draw exposure curves in photoshop, or level curves in audio programmes...
Click to expand...

Your chart makes sense.
 
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