FIA opens F1 2011 new team selection

[Ardius]

I think the lack of track time is costing them more than the budgets.

Hm, but their lack of track time is their own fault. I think the recession is more to blame than anything - both Prodrive and Lola have stated finanical reasons for not entering.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Seems the FIA was on to something with their budget capping, as now everyones been scared away seeing what happened to Virgin, HRT and Lotus.

I think so, but I think that's only half of it. The first season was always going to be rough for the new teams; Brawn might have had success in their debut season, but they were an exception to the rule. I think a lot of prospective entrants are being scared off because they know they'll struggle.

 

[yeti]

I think so, but I think that's only half of it. The first season was always going to be rough for the new teams; Brawn might have had success in their debut season, but they were an exception to the rule. I think a lot of prospective entrants are being scared off because they know they'll struggle.

And also Brawn weren't a "new" new team... these 3 are.

C.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That's my point. Brawn came about under pretty exceptional circumstances. I've followed the debate online, and some people genuinely think that teams like Prodrive could replicate that kind of success, or at the very least, be more competitive than the new teams simply because they're Prodrive.

 

[yeti]

That's my point. Brawn came about under pretty exceptional circumstances. I've followed the debate online, and some people genuinely think that teams like Prodrive could replicate that kind of success, or at the very least, be more competitive than the new teams simply because they're Prodrive.

Well those people are clearly deluded!?

C.

 

[Only_in_f1]

Hm, but their lack of track time is their own fault. I think the recession is more to blame than anything - both Prodrive and Lola have stated finanical reasons for not entering.

Surely the cap on testing is to blame? If you gave these 3 teams a test between now and spain they'd be closer/better off than not.

 

[Ardius]

Surely the cap on testing is to blame? If you gave these 3 teams a test between now and spain they'd be closer/better off than not.

Yes, but HRT has had no testing before the season which is their own fault.
Virgin missed the first test which is also their own choice.
Lotus missed the first and second tests due to gaining entry so late.

Ok, they would be a little bit closer with in-season testing, but not much and besides, the whole reason we ditched in-season testing was the rich teams could do it as much as they liked and the smaller teams couldn't compete.
Only letting the new teams test in-season doesn't solve this problem, all 3 would probably still not test as they can't afford it anyway. It also complicates the issue of the 8-engines for the season rule among others.

The problems the new teams have is just raw pace. In season testing helps improve this a little, but really it benefits having to make large changes to your car, such as last year when BMW Sauber took completely the wrong direction with their car. They could have brought the car back to the pace quicker if they had more testing. But for a new team, it won't bring them on pace with everyone else, their issues are not developmental - they are to do with the core design and production of their car. For example, the Lotus hasn't got J-dampers yet, which are a standard part on your average F1 car.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The SPEED report is claiming that thirteen teams have applied for 2011. Most have gone un-named, but in addition to the three we know - Epsilon Euskadi, Durango and Stefan GP - there is also the Cypher Group, which is apparently not the remains of USF1 as first suspected, because rumour has it that Ken Anderson has put together his own bid to be known as Anderson F1.

 

[Seismica]

There should be a system of making sure there is an inverse correlation between overall funding and availability of testing.

I think the teams that are so far off the pace should have been allowed to test their cars mid-season (I think all teams are allowed at least a couple of laps to test new aerodynamic parts? Before Spain I mean. The new teams should have more because they are so far behind, it is not unreasonable). I think giving the lower teams that little bit of extra testing will help them catch up to the better funded teams without giving them too much of an advantage. At the moment the new teams are using the races to test their cars, and are playing the long game, hoping that within a couple of seasons they will be well established. But by then funding could well have dried up due to lack of sponsors or whatnot (Well, maybe not in the case of Virgin and Lotus). Surely if they aren't going to implement any funding caps, then new teams should be given a little more time in testing to get their car in order.

The new teams for this season are not in any way rookies, they will have taken on many engineers and mechanics with years of experience in the sport. But if you're building a car from scratch, they do take a little bit of time to catch up. Look at Mclaren in 2008, after the rule changes they basically had to start from scratch, and they spent the entire season just catching up the Brawn and Red Bull. Now think what that is like for a team with a small fraction of the funding, and even with experience, they don't have as many people working on the car and they probably don't have the same level of expertise as engineers in the top teams (Because if they did, they'd probably be in those top teams, not trying to get work in new teams).

 

[yeti]

They also need to make the decision a lot sooner - it's quite clear that the new teams for this year didn't have enough time to develop their cars - which goes to show how much of an amazing job Lotus are doing - cos they had even less time. (This wasn't the FIA's fault though)

C>

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The final announcemnt will be made in July. That's later than last year, though it may be possible that the FIA will be inspecting the teams - Jean Todt was in northern Spain visiting Epsilon Euskadi this week - as they go, to make sure that they're capable and tht they're working on it. It makes sense.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Reports out of Italy suggest ART Grand Prix want in as well.

 

[Northstar]

Cypher Group has a website now. Looks like they built it on some free hosting service as well.

Link

 

[Ardius]

On par with Stefan's site then . Websites mean little though, I'm more interested in the actual assets of teams as this determines success or failure.
If they can start to answer 1 or 2 of these questions, then they suggest to me that they have some credibility:
Do they have money? Do they have sponsor connections?
Who is designing their car? Who is building it?
What are their physical assets? Buildings, windtunnels, etc?
How much experience is the team bringing in? Are they hiring from motorsport teams or F1 teams?

These questions can be answered before entry, or at least their plans and intentions. Any other questions like drivers, engines and so on aren't going to be answered till later this year, certainly not now.

 

[senamic]

Cypher Group has a website now. Looks like they built it on some free hosting service as well.

Link

(Reading about USF1 and then Cypher Group) "You spin me right round, baby right round....."

Seriously, it is beginning to feel like a cycle, I am sorry to say.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

On par with Stefan's site then . Websites mean little though, I'm more interested in the actual assets of teams as this determines success or failure.
If they can start to answer 1 or 2 of these questions, then they suggest to me that they have some credibility:
Do they have money? Do they have sponsor connections?
Who is designing their car? Who is building it?
What are their physical assets? Buildings, windtunnels, etc?
How much experience is the team bringing in? Are they hiring from motorsport teams or F1 teams?

These questions can be answered before entry, or at least their plans and intentions. Any other questions like drivers, engines and so on aren't going to be answered till later this year, certainly not now.

Confirmation of Cypher's entry has only just come to light. There hasn't even been a press release confirming it. Reading their website, it seems they want to keep a low profile until such time as they get a grid entry. They're very conscious of the USF1 farce, and they clearly don't want a repeat of it. Those questions no doubt have answers, but they are not for our ears. Not yet. It's the FIA who chooses the new teams, not the fans, and provided they can answer them correctly to Paris, there is no problem. It is likely that Epsilon Euskadi is being held up as the benchmark that all teams will be judged against.

And to satisfy your curiosity, it seems that Chad Hurley may be bankrolling Cypher. There's nothing definitive, but his name has been mentioned in connection to it. And the team's logo suppsedly exaggerates the C and H in 'Cypher', though that's hardly evidence of anything.

 

[yeti]

Is there a deadline for this? I think it needs to be all decided ASAP - the new teams current progress obviously shows that they didn't have enough time - so the more time the better for another new team!

C.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Expressions of interest were due April 15th. Full applications are due by June.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

ART have confirmed they have submitted an entry. They believe they will know whether they will be accepted on July 1st.

Also, Ardius, where is it written that the prospective entrants need to totally disclose details of their entry to the public? The FIA are the only ones they need to prove themselves to, since it's the FIA and not the fans who choose which team(s) will be joining the grid.

 

[Ardius]

Also, Ardius, where is it written that the prospective entrants need to totally disclose details of their entry to the public? The FIA are the only ones they need to prove themselves to, since it's the FIA and not the fans who choose which team(s) will be joining the grid.

I never said they did. Just I cannot give my view on such teams without any information about them. Just knowing team names, nationalities and vaguely who is involved isn't particulary useful for working out how well they do.

Besides, most teams usually reveal information (such as USF1 last year) because its not like it needs to be secret anyway. For example, we knew Mike Gascoyne was working with Litespeed/Team Lotus, we knew that Prodrive obviously involves many experienced people and we knew about their assets and their backers.
USF1 we knew that they were supposedly well organised and that Anderson and Windsor had limited F1 experience.
Campos had experience from junior categories, Epsilon was a known quantity and though we didn't hear about Manor till after the entries were confirmed, we knew they are a highly successful junior category team.

With Cypher we know nothing so I cannot say whether they are a good entry or not based on just a website. Theres nothing wrong with that of course, but for me to pass comment I'd rather actually know something about them.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There's an interesing lead article on Autosport at the moment: Parris Mullins - Chad Hurley's right-hand man - wants to get into Formula 1. But he's not going to enter as a start-up operation because he thinks that USF1 has proven that to be impractical. Rather, he's cited the Genii-Renault arrangement as something that he thinks could work and says he's talking with several someones about coming to some kind of arrangement that woul see him invest in them and possibly take on a role as team principal. There's no indication who he might be talking to.

Also, Red Bull's grand poobah, Dietrich Mateschitz, has said that he's open to the idea of Red Bull Racing taking on a title sponsor. Given that he was trying to offload Toro Rosso before last year's political maelstrom, I could maybe see Mullins buying out the smaller Red Bull team.

 

[Ardius]

I'd rather see him back HRT, and with Bernie's assitance that may happen. Sauber is a possiblity too. There are a lot of existing teams that need the cash to be honest .
I'd say Sauber is the most likely because Peter doesn't want to run the team, he just wants to ensure it survives. I can't see Mateschitz ditching his mate Franz Tost from STR, unless they are thinking of ditching Christian Horner too, which is even more unlikely.

If Mullins really wants to be a team principal, Sauber is most likely. But what experience does Mullins have? It all sounds a bit Jaguar to me (team principal jumps in, has a go, jumps out).

 

[yeti]

It all sounds a bit Jaguar to me (team principal jumps in, has a go, jumps out).

Bit like their drivers I seem to recall - jump in - do a few laps - jump out of the smouldering carcass of an ex F1 car.

C.

 

[LizMcQueen]

Let's see...
Prodrive/Aston Martin [GB]
Lola [GB]
Epsilon Euskadi [ES]
RML (Ray Mallock Limited) [GB]
N Technology [IT]
USF1 [US]
StefanGP [RS]
I think F1 needs an american team, because there it's not very popular.

 

[Ardius]

Let's see...
Prodrive/Aston Martin [GB]
Lola [GB]
Epsilon Euskadi [ES]
RML (Ray Mallock Limited) [GB]
N Technology [IT]
USF1 [US]
StefanGP [RS]
I think F1 needs an american team, because there it's not very popular.

Not all of those are entries anymore, the poll was made before we got any confirmations of entries.

Currently the known applications are:
Epsilon Euskadi
Cypher Group (ex-USF1 employees)
Anderson F1 (a new attempt by Ken Anderson, the numpty who killed USF1)
ART
Durango

So we have 2 US entries now plus 1 US investor looking to take over an existing team. I think we have plenty of US interest .
Prodrive and Lola are no longer attempting entries, N Technology probably never had the funds and I don't consider Stefan a credible entry (and Anderson is only marginally more credible).
I don't know if RML are still attempting entry. I hope they are because the the rest of the potential candidates leave a lot to be desired. ART or maybe Epsilon are the only other ones I'd consider.

I'm not sure how credible Cypher is, certainly more honest but I don't think they are a great choice. Anderson has no chance now, so I think the next chance of an American team is Mullins taking over Sauber or someone.

 

[Peter]

It looks like the FIA will have to pick Epsilon, they seem like the most financially stable team, that is least likely to drop out with 1 month before race 1.

Sauber is sticking around for now. I doubt Peter will sell his team 1 year after he bought it back.

 

[Ardius]

Sauber is sticking around for now. I doubt Peter will sell his team 1 year after he bought it back.

Why? He said he didn't want to buy it back, he doesn't want to be a team owner, he just doesn't want to see his team disappear more. If he gets a chance to offload the team to someone who can run it for the long term then he will. That was the idea with letting BMW buy it, he thought it would have secured the long term future, but as we have seen, relying on manufacturers is not safe.

To quote Peter:
"Q: From your position as a minority stakeholder you have been propelled back into the team principal’s role…
PS: It was truly never my desire to return to the pit wall. But once I decide for myself to get involved with something, then I am fully committed and do it with all my passion."

 

[prisonermonkeys]

AMuS is reporting that the FIA has narrowed the ten entrants down to a shortlist of three: the Cypher Group, Epsilon Euskadi and (wait for it!) ... Villeneuve Racing! After his aborted 2010 comeback, apparently everyone's favourite singer/songwriter/double World Champion is looking to join the ranks of Alain Prost, Jackie Stewart, Emerson Fittipaldi, Bruce McLaren an Jack Brabham as a former driver with his own team.

EDIT: it seems pretty official (that he is putting an entry together, at least) because there is a Villeneuve F1 website (complete with ClipArt!).

 

[Northstar]

I can't see Epsilon not being the front runner as they're the only one of the three that actually have proof they can put forth a legitimate bid. Cypher Goup and Villeneuve racing are both brand new operations that don't really have anything to prove they can put forth a legitimate bid, which is something I think the FIA will be looking for following the whole USF1 ordeal.

 

[astrosdude91]

I like the idea of having a US team in the mix again, but does anyone else think "Cypher Group" sounds like some evil corporation out of a Schwarzenegger movie?