FITT Transmission tuning challenge; Results in, Congratulations to Otaliema, MrGrado & DaBomm4

  • Thread starter Otaliema
  • 104 comments
  • 5,478 views
Sounds good gentlemen, testers if you're a manual user if you didn't notice this car has horrid acceleration after 7500 rpm so I'd recommend shifting at that point.
I'll get the testing done Tuesday my self and get the results sheet drawn up as well at that time, if you need an extra day or two due to the holidays let me know I'm more than open to extensions on this challenge due to the time of year.
 
praiano63
Shifting at 7000 rpm with both gearbox

5 speed trans--------- = 1:05.034

Custom 6 speed trans = 1:04.358

Difference = 0.676

Initial Final Gear - 2.500 (minimum)
Top Speed - 330 kmh = 205 mph
1st - 4.261
2nd - 2.914
3rd - 2.294
4th - 1.856
5th - 1.542
6th - 1.303
Final - 2.500

Enjoy your drive.

><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°
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I'll get you added to the list sir thank you for the tune :) are you going to test as well?
 
Bowtie-muscle
There was no problem with the trans, and yes I use manual, what I believe happened was that the exit leading into the tunnel improved. This allowed me to carry more speed through the tunnel, higher speed for the following right turn was higher changing the corner entry. Going just a tick slower changed how I got through the corner giving better launch down the hill. Not much, just a tick, the final double right hander I was just never able to get the same speed through but not due to the trans I do believe.
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Did you have a chance to compare those speeds through the tunnel on MoTeC or data logger? That is a very good way of looking at it. There is also a chance that that particular transmission setup causes a little more snug condition on turn in. I've gone through my initial 10 transmission setups and have found a few that do just that. Like you said, not much, but it can throw your lines and/or marks off. I have about 15 or so setups left to go then will try and fine tune the best one. Times so far range from 1:05.5xx - 1:06.1xx The slower lap times are down to that snug condition causing me to have to slow down more/wait on the throttle.
 
Lionheart2113
Did you have a chance to compare those speeds through the tunnel on MoTeC or data logger? That is a very good way of looking at it. There is also a chance that that particular transmission setup causes a little more snug condition on turn in. I've gone through my initial 10 transmission setups and have found a few that do just that. Like you said, not much, but it can throw your lines and/or marks off. I have about 15 or so setups left to go then will try and fine tune the best one. Times so far range from 1:05.5xx - 1:06.1xx The slower lap times are down to that snug condition causing me to have to slow down more/wait on the throttle.
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No, did not save and review any of the data, sorry. But you may be right about the snug reaction to to some setups as that seems to be what happened.
 
praiano63
Yes i´ll test,this is a quick track easy to fast lap.
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Added sir, thank you.

@Lionheart2113 i tuned 4th & 5th gears thinking about you and your auto transmission:).
Coincidentally that set up ended up being the best around the track it allowed the car to relax at the tunnel and hug in the last two turns and maximize the acceleration on the start finish straight.
I knew the transmission could affect handling just never thought it would have as big of an effect as it did, at this track at least
 
Otaliema
Added sir, thank you.

@Lionheart2113 i tuned 4th & 5th gears thinking about you and your auto transmission:).
Coincidentally that set up ended up being the best around the track it allowed the car to relax at the tunnel and hug in the last two turns and maximize the acceleration on the start finish straight.
I knew the transmission could affect handling just never thought it would have as big of an effect as it did, at this track at least
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You are right. You wouldn't think it would be that much of a difference, and to be fair, it's not really a lot in lap times, but it's there. I still have a few "off the wall" setups to try out. Hopefully I will get them done in time, this weekend hasn't gone according to plan.:scared:
Has anyone felt any difference in braking zones? Especially going into the first turn, or is it just me? One of the reasons I tune my transmission before fine tuning the LSD. If I tune the LSD first, I usually found myself going back into the LSD settings while trying to find a transmission and it just makes a lot more work and I end up chasing my own tail.
 
Lionheart2113
You are right. You wouldn't think it would be that much of a difference, and to be fair, it's not really a lot in lap times, but it's there. I still have a few "off the wall" setups to try out. Hopefully I will get them done in time, this weekend hasn't gone according to plan.:scared:
Has anyone felt any difference in braking zones? Especially going into the first turn, or is it just me? One of the reasons I tune my transmission before fine tuning the LSD. If I tune the LSD first, I usually found myself going back into the LSD settings while trying to find a transmission and it just makes a lot more work and I end up chasing my own tail.
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I haven't noticed an issue with braking (until I tried to tune after I tried @TurnLeft's challenge) but it could just be my driving. I normally tune my transmissions last anyways, fine tuning always finds its way in at the end though.
 
- TRASMISSION
. RESET
. Final Gear = 3,911
. 200 Km/h
. 1ª 4,154
. 2ª 2,993
. 3ª 2,274
. 4ª 1,804
. 5ª 1,494
. 6ª 1,293

- Final Gear = 3,000
. enjoy this transmission will be able to balance the forces:cheers:
 
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praiano63
Otaliema , can you link the gearbox of each tuner beside their names in post 1 please ?
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praiano63
I can´t reach 6.033 of 1st gear with a initial final of 2.800, only lowering to 2.750.
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I will get them linked once I can get to a computer on my phone right now and trying to copy links and paste them into edits is not the easiest thing on the planet.
Can you match all other gears with 2.750? I may have crossed transmission setting when I was jotting it down :(

Edit I just tried to put in a link for a transmission and it kept moving my cursor to the top of the page when I tried to paste the url in. I'll try again In the text editor which is working just have to type the bb code by hand fir everything which takes a a whole due to keystrokes for the brackets
 
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Otaliema
I will get them linked once I can get to a computer on my phone right now and trying to copy links and paste them into edits is not the easiest thing on the planet.
Can you match all other gears with 2.750? I may have crossed transmission setting when I was jotting it down :(

Edit I just tried to put in a link for a transmission and it kept moving my cursor to the top of the page when I tried to paste the url in. I'll try again In the text editor which is working just have to type the bb code by hand fir everything which takes a a whole due to keystrokes for the brackets
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Yes, i reach the numbers for all gears when set initial to 2.750. Perhaps the oil change??
 
praiano63
Yes, i reach the numbers for all gears when set initial to 2.750. Perhaps the oil change??
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I don't change the oil in my cars unless it's worn out so not thus time. Maybe I mixed up the settings when I was writing them down I'll check after the kids crash tonight. Do you use km/h or mph?
 
Otaliema
I don't change the oil in my cars unless it's worn out so not thus time. Maybe I mixed up the settings when I was writing them down I'll check after the kids crash tonight. Do you use km/h or mph?
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To reach the exact PP / HP on the original ImToLegitToQuit RE Amemiya RX-7 , you need an oil change.
 
Lionheart2113
The rules from the original FITT challenge didn't allow an oil change, Mr. P
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...eart2113-imtolegittoquit.314917/#post-9949444
There was only a certain amount that could be done to meet the requirements. Most tuners of the RX-7 ended up at 525pp with 383hp. I have 2 from the challenge and both are ok without the oil change.
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Yes but it´s writen (We will be using a prebuilt car, @@ImToLegitToQuit) and this car have an oil change.
 
Otaliema
Mine dosnt have an oil change and meets the tune power and torque
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I don´t see any torque value on the GTPlanet tun sheet of the car. Only PP and power.
I have the same 525 PP and 383 HP with oil change and 99.45 PL // 364 ft-lb torque
The no oil change have 525PP and 383HP , 100% PL // 357 ft-lb torque.

I´ll not test all the cars again because of the oil change. The important thing in this shootout is the time difference and the light torque difference don´t have any kind of influence.

The decision is in your hands to validate my results or not.

PS : i don´t see anything about oil change in this shootout rules or in the FITT rules ..... :odd:
 
praiano63
The decision is in your hands to validate my results or not.

PS : i don´t see anything about oil change in this shootout rules or in the FITT rules ..... :odd:
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As long as you had the racing exhaust on the tune I'll allow the results. I didn't say anything about an oil change as the challenge was using a prebuilt tune that didn't call for one.
You're correct the tune dosnt have torque listed I thought it did. My bad.
The extra torque would help with low end acceleration the power limiting was not enough to cause a flat peak power band.
 
@praiano63 I got a chance to check in game. I'm sorry but I will need to disqualify your testing as it it appears you didn't have the Racing exhaust installed as called for in the tune. This also means the posted transmission doesn't meet challenge rules I will allow you to rebuild with the correct part installed if you wish. The engine rpm needs to read 8,600 rpm the only way I could match your transmission numbers was to remove the Racing exhaust and get the engine rpm to read 8,500.
 
Otaliema
@praiano63 I got a chance to check in game. I'm sorry but I will need to disqualify your testing as it it appears you didn't have the Racing exhaust installed as called for in the tune. This also means the posted transmission doesn't meet challenge rules I will allow you to rebuild with the correct part installed if you wish. The engine rpm needs to read 8,600 rpm the only way I could match your transmission numbers was to remove the Racing exhaust and get the engine rpm to read 8,500.
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Here are the numbers of the 2 cars. There is absolutely no difference on track, even more in this case where not the lap time but the time difference between the 2 gearboxes is the goal of the test.

There is absolutely nothing about oil change in the 1st post of this shootout rules or in the FITT rules or on the tune sheet.

Oil change 383 HP at 6800 RPM and 363,7 ft-lb at 5000 RPM
No oil change 383 HP at 7000 RPM and 356,8 ft-lb at 5100 RPM

I´ve spent around 3 hours of my time doing this test.

Up to you to consider or not my results. I just want to say that i dont see any reason for this because it´s possible to match the gears ratios with the 2 cars and perform correctly the test. Only for 1 car it wasn´t possible to match the 1st gear ratio because out of range, but 1st gear wasn´t matter because not used on this track.
 
I apologize to the testers for submitting my setup so late, but with home life/holidays, things got hectic so fast. I didn't even get a chance to run through all of my possible setups, let alone fine tune any of them... Enough with the sob story, here it goes...

Reset Transmission
Set Final to 3.200
Set Max Speed Slider to Minimum (124mph)
Set Gears:
1st = 6.025 (Max)
2nd = 4.223 (Max)
3rd = 3.129 (Max)
4th = 2.434 (Max)
5th = 1.977 (Max)
6th = 1.677 (Max)
Set Final to 2.500 (Min)

Just in case anyone is interested....these are the transmission setups I tend to go through when attempting to fine tune a car. Enjoy!:lol:

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None of these 6 include @praiano63 way of tuning a gearbox... which, in my opinion, is the safest way to go most times.
 
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MrGrado
Having oil change and no exhaust is going to disadvantage transmissions that are doing high RPM in top gear on the straight.
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Not for 200 RPM sorry.

EDIT: and i repeat not for a shootout where not the lap time but the time diff betwen 2 gearboxes will count.
 
MrGrado
Well your results might still end up being closer to true results than other testers through consistent driving!
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For the test i always work with an ideal ghost lap , this ghost allow me to check if the laptime difference is due to driving line or purely a better perf during retake out corner due to better rpm range for a given gear or a better overall performance of a gearbox.
I eliminate all the others driving errors influence on the laptime. So yes , i think my results are confiable.
 
praiano63
For the test i always work with an ideal ghost lap , this ghost allow me to check if the laptime difference is due to driving line or purely a better perf during retake out corner due to better rpm range for a given gear or a better overall performance of a gearbox.
I eliminate all the others driving errors influence on the laptime. So yes , i think my results are confiable.
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I'm not disputing the quality of your results, the fact the gear ratios are different causes the transmissions to not be set up the way the tuner intended them to be. And your transmission can not be built to be spec by the other testers with out removing the exhaust and doing an oil change on the car or finding a new final drive number.
And I again I didn't say no oil change as the pre built car didn't call for one so I didn't think it was needed to state to not do something that was not listed in the tune.
 
In the sake of interest, would it be an idea to run the cars with a simple fixed max-speed adjustment to compare what effect merely fitting the full custom trans has?

ie.
Stock trans - x.xx
FCT (180mph) - x.xx
Tuner 1 - x.xx
Tuner 2 - x.xx
Tuner 3 - x.xx
etc.
 

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