Fix the Gran Turismo CLUTCH movement

[ApexVGear]

maybe post this in twitter?

https://twitter.com/Kaz_Yamauchi

Yes, PLEASE. Let him know about this thread, and post your opinions.

Simply, here's how Polyphony Digital should approach this...

1. If your shifter is "in gear" then Gran Turismo will be in gear, NO MATTER WHAT, even if you use the clutch and miss the shift. If you do, at the very least it delays the shift as you're "grinding" the gear, or it actually damages the transmission. If you miss enough shifts, it affects the performance of the car until it is "repaired" after the race (and you would have to "pay" for the repair). We should never see "N" again when the stick is in a gear.

2. FIRST, perfect the operation of the clutch and shifter to be as realistic as possible for those users who want the most "immersion" and have invested $300-800 in a wheel, pedals and shifter. THEN, do what you (PD) can to give $30-50 controller users some kind of advantage, or offer a way to "lock out" the use of a clutch in the online lobby and timed events.

 

[Bigbazz]

What exactly is wrong with the shifting? My shifting isn't the fastest, but I don't have any problems using h-pattern and clutch with GT5 or in the GT6 demo. Maybe you can slow down your shifts by a fraction of second?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVJylj72rOc

Maybe I'm granny-shifting, not double-clutching like I should?

Prologue had power shifting and it was totally unfair. It essentially allowed every car to be the Lexus IS-F or the Skyline 370GT. I think forcing you to lift to complete a shift isn't too bad. It keeps competition with those without a clutch at an equal level. And it will at least teach some better driving habits in a real car, since power shifting and super-fast shifts can damage the clutch and transmission. I also think it's a bit more realistic then, say, iRacing where you can put the car in the next gear before hand, then kick the clutch to get a lighting-fast shift.

And anyone that thinks the clutch in GT5 is just an on/off switch is mistaken. You can slip the clutch. It's even possible to get cars moving in 5th or 6th gear by slipping the clutch.

I think it's more the issue that driving a car normally in GT5 (GT6 too) can cause you to miss a lot of gears, real cars are not that sensitive or picky, they don't miss gears and magically end up in neutral when you change gear, sure they can grind but I can't remember the last time I grinded a gear in my car, or any car, but in GT5 it was something I would probably do once every 2-3 laps, and the car just ends up in bloody N. This includes driving the ingame version of my real life car, so we can cast aside any ideas that there is a difference in the car being driven.

My friends who play the game, who aren't big sim racers but give it a go at my house just look at me stupid and say "why doesnt the gearbox work?" when they constantly miss gears.

It just doesn't work like a real car, and this problem is fairly unique to GT5/GT6. Other games are far from nailing a proper transmission but atleast they have come to a compromise that isn't so frustrating and gamebreaking like this.

 

[eight6er]

I think the clutch has improved in the GT6 demo, but it's still not like a real one yet. It's not fair to handicap H shifters, as some cars can change gears faster than others in real life anyway, but in GT5 pretty much every car changes gears lightning fast with the sequential gear buttons, but the H shifter isn't even worth bothering with as it's so slow and unrealistic.

The solution is quite simple really, it boggles the mind why PD have gone about this in such a nonsensical way. Give everyone the ability to assign a clutch button, whether they use a joypad or what ever. Then have an option for people who don't want flat shifting in their online lobby to not allow flat shifting. This will add a .02 second or so delay when a person flat shifts.

 

[ApexVGear]

What exactly is wrong with the shifting? My shifting isn't the fastest, but I don't have any problems using h-pattern and clutch with GT5 or in the GT6 demo. Maybe you can slow down your shifts by a fraction of second?...

I'm speaking from a REAL WORLD perspective...

Part of your skill as you develop as a REAL race car driver is perfecting your shifting to be as "lightning-fast" and efficient as possible. For cars with full manual transmissions, you hone that skill until you can quickly adapt to the "sync" points of any car you get into--where you match rev and gearing so well, the clutch is just there to "aid" in the shift. You can actually speed shift without a clutch, but there is a risk.

Also, while downshifting you can heel-toe (or "blip") the throttle while braking and clutching to rev-match for better car control and consistent differential drive-reducing the chance of the car "stepping out" due to differential lock while providing "consistent" power as you're entering a turn. This is useful for rear-wheel drive cars, especially lighter ones, and it can cut several "tenths" off you time in a lap.

If a team driver was constantly having "issues" with a transmission and shifting, and he went to the team mechanic with the problem, and the mechanic responded with, "just slow down your shifting," HE'D BE FIRED ON THE SPOT!

If you've made the additional investment in a wheel, pedals, and shifter, and you are satisfied with the shifting in GT5/GT6 Demo as it is, then more power to you. I guess if you were to buy a new car, and from the day you picked it up it would often miss-shift and not go into gear--when you returned it to the dealership and they tell you "just slow down your shifts" you'd be perfectly happy with that.

 

[gar529]

In real life, the shifter is connected to the gearbox, so if gears aren't properly lined up, there is resistance and you can't easily put the car in gear. You can force a shift, but it's not a good thing to do. If you are driving your real car, and you mess up the shift and get some grinding, you're going take a second and make sure it's slotted in place correctly. With sims, there is no connection to the gearbox, so if you mess up the shift, there's no feeling to let you know; it goes into place regardless.

If you don't shift properly, the car should either not go into gear, or there should at least be grinding and transmission damage, and ideally you should be forced to put the car back into gear properly or there's no consequence in short races, or when damage is off. But then, if the sim allows you to put the car into gear regardless of how you use the clutch or how much you lift off the throttle, why should there even be a need for the clutch in the first place? Wouldn't it be better if the clutch was just completely optional and all you had to do was keep the throttle pinned and select the gear?

Also, I think the clutch pedal travel on most wheels is shorter than a lot of street cars, and the throw on the shifter is shorter as well. So I think it's possible to shift a virtual car faster than a real car, which is something that should be accounted for in sims, imo.

 

[gar529]

I'm speaking from a REAL WORLD perspective...

Part of your skill as you develop as a REAL race car driver is perfecting your shifting to be as "lightning-fast" and efficient as possible. For cars with full manual transmissions, you hone that skill until you can quickly adapt to the "sync" points of any car you get into--where you match rev and gearing so well, the clutch is just there to "aid" in the shift. You can actually speed shift without a clutch, but there is a risk.

Also, while downshifting you can heel-toe (or "blip") the throttle while braking and clutching to rev-match for better car control and consistent differential drive-reducing the chance of the car "stepping out" due to differential lock while providing "consistent" power as you're entering a turn. This is useful for rear-wheel drive cars, especially lighter ones, and it can cut several "tenths" off you time in a lap.

If a team driver was constantly having "issues" with a transmission and shifting, and he went to the team mechanic with the problem, and the mechanic responded with, "just slow down your shifting," HE'D BE FIRED ON THE SPOT!

If you've made the additional investment in a wheel, pedals, and shifter, and you are satisfied with the shifting in GT5/GT6 Demo as it is, then more power to you. I guess if you were to buy a new car, and from the day you picked it up it would often miss-shift and not go into gear--when you returned it to the dealership and they tell you "just slow down your shifts" you'd be perfectly happy with that.

Lighting fast shifts aren't a desirable trait for racing drivers, smooth shifts that are easy on the equipment are. If you are super fast and smooth, more power to you, but any team will tell you the couple hundredths of a second you'll gain by shifting quickly are not worth the gearbox rebuilds that will be done after the race.

A friend of mine works on a race team and one of their drivers who came up through sim racing was notoriously horrible on the gearbox, so much so that the team had to rebuild it after every race. Although he's fast, perhaps that's part of the reason why that driver is no longer with the team.

Even in series where there are sequential gearboxes, and clutches aren't needed for shifting, like with Porsche Cup Cars, the drivers use the clutch on downshifts because it's easier on the equipment. The drivers would be faster if they used left foot braking and just blipped the throttle on the downshifts, but it's not worth it if they don't have a working gearbox at the end of the race.

 

[eight6er]

In real life, the shifter is connected to the gearbox, so if gears aren't properly lined up, there is resistance and you can't easily put the car in gear. You can force a shift, but it's not a good thing to do. If you are driving your real car, and you mess up the shift and get some grinding, you're going take a second and make sure it's slotted in place correctly. With sims, there is no connection to the gearbox, so if you mess up the shift, there's no feeling to let you know; it goes into place regardless.

If you don't shift properly, the car should either not go into gear, or there should at least be grinding and transmission damage, and ideally you should be forced to put the car back into gear properly or there's no consequence in short races, or when damage is off. But then, if the sim allows you to put the car into gear regardless of how you use the clutch or how much you lift off the throttle, why should there even be a need for the clutch in the first place? Wouldn't it be better if the clutch was just completely optional and all you had to do was keep the throttle pinned and select the gear?

Also, I think the clutch pedal travel on most wheels is shorter than a lot of street cars, and the throw on the shifter is shorter as well. So I think it's possible to shift a virtual car faster than a real car, which is something that should be accounted for in sims, imo.

The problem is, people are shifting properly like they do in real life, but GT5 makes you miss a shift, because it is not simulated in a realistic manner at all.

Also the clutch travel doesn't really matter much, as the biting point could be anywhere according to how worn the clutch is and what type of clutch you have, and I doubt PD are going to go to the trouble of checking every car.

My car has a racing clutch and I don't have to press it far at all, and I can change gears way faster than is possible in GT and I don't have to leave off the throttle if I don't want to, as I have done quite frequently with out any noticeable damage in over 3 years of use.

 

[Tornado]

This is a demo, so you need to chill.

So now it's a placeholder clutch?

 

[ApexVGear]

In real life, the shifter is connected to the gearbox, so if gears aren't properly lined up, there is resistance and you can't easily put the car in gear. You can force a shift, but it's not a good thing to do. If you are driving your real car, and you mess up the shift and get some grinding, you're going take a second and make sure it's slotted in place correctly. With sims, there is no connection to the gearbox, so if you mess up the shift, there's no feeling to let you know; it goes into place regardless.

With experience and proper rev-matching, you can "speed shift" most cars--but I wouldn't risk making a shift without the "proper" use of the clutch. ...and when you're RACING and gearing down and up through your turn's driving line, you have to be REALLY GOOD at it--but there isn't that much of an advantage. Also, there are short-throw to long-throw clutches, and every time I get into a "new" car that I'm not familiar with, the very first thing I do is establish where the clutch engages for that car and how much slip and bite the pressure plate provides. Then while parked and as I drive and start to "shake down" the car, I get a feel for the stick and how it "interacts" with the transmission. ...and eventually, I start establishing a "memory" for the brake and throttle. ...and I don't establish any of this by LOOKING at anything.

When you are RACING on a road course, the only time you can "take a second" to check or "look at" something is on a straightaway. When you are hitting your braking point, downshifting and taking your entry line with proper throttle control, then just before the apex, accelerating into your exit line, you're eyes are on the driving line (and NEVER anywhere else), and your feet and hands are providing additional crucial feedback, while your whole body is gauging the G-forces and (along with the wheel feedback through your hands) the feel being provided through the car from your four tire patches on the pavement.

The IDEAL simulator shifter peripheral would be one that "kicks back" and/or locks you out of going into the gear should you get it totally wrong. If you "grind" it, then vibration motors in the shifter would provide the feedback through your hand--just like in a real car.

Until someone comes up with that, it is utterly ridiculous that, while operating the clutch as you would in a real car and you move the stick into a position and re-engage the drive (lift off the clutch), you still get "N" ...and you get it repeatedly as you "attempt" to get it into a gear.

At that point, you're no longer racing--your just playing a "can you get the magic number" video game with expensive peripherals (pedals and shifter). You're no longer focusing on your driving line, entry and exit--you're looking at the gear indicator in the corner of the screen while you're repeatedly working the pedal and stick.

 

[ApexVGear]

Lighting fast shifts aren't a desirable trait for racing drivers, smooth shifts that are easy on the equipment are. If you are super fast and smooth, more power to you, but any team will tell you the couple hundredths of a second you'll gain by shifting quickly are not worth the gearbox rebuilds that will be done after the race.

You are correct, and I should have clarified that I CAN do lightning-fast shifts if there is a need for it, and sometimes, in an overtaking situation, or another where you're forced to recover the car or take an evasive maneuver. Still, a shift is a shift, even if it's "lightning-fast" is MUST be smooth, for both car control and wear on the car.

However, racing IS about consistency and fluidity. The best times aren't achieved by slamming pedals and gears, flooring the throttle, and "diving" into turns with fierce wheel movements.

Ideally, it's a "waltz" of driver, car, and road. Yeah, there's the roar of the engine, the adrenaline, and you have to exhibit "controlled" aggression at times when "battling" a matched competitor--but it's the best "dancer" that wins. You are also the "brain and heartbeat" of the car (the "body") and you want it to last and go the distance.

That's why I appreciate the Forza 4 model, and I hope Gran Turismo 6 will adopt a similar feature--if you mis-shift, even once, it damages the car, and you have to pay to repair it at the end of the race. If you continue to mis-shift, this progressively degrades the performance of the car to the point where there is a "lag" in your shifts--so much, that it can become a major disadvantage. Also, the more damage you do, the more it will cost you after the race.

Considering "consistency and fluidity," Gran Turismo's current clutch model does not provide that. Being required to "slow down your shifts" to satisfy some ridiculous coding of a video game totally disrupts the whole concept.

That being said--LET'S GET BACK ON TOPIC.

GT5/GT6 Demo: Horrible clutch.

What wheel, shifter, and pedals do you use, and provide your honest opinion on this issue.

It needs to be "fixed" and if there's enough feedback, we'll get Polyphony Digital's attention, and maybe we'll see a better clutch in the final release of Gran Turismo 6 later this year.

 

[Fgame]

G25 and clutch is difficult at racing speed. Also reverse buttons dont work while in clutch mode. Which is annoying as If you have a broken reverse gear shift, pressing the reverse buttons does nothing, you need to select sequential mode which requires both hands, then reverse, and then do same procedure to get back to clutch mode.
That I guess is a G25 specific problem, and unlikely to be addressed for the number of people with G25 who also have broken reverse gears.

 

[gar529]

The problem is, people are shifting properly like they do in real life, but GT5 makes you miss a shift, because it is not simulated in a realistic manner at all.

Also the clutch travel doesn't really matter much, as the biting point could be anywhere according to how worn the clutch is and what type of clutch you have, and I doubt PD are going to go to the trouble of checking every car.

My car has a racing clutch and I don't have to press it far at all, and I can change gears way faster than is possible in GT and I don't have to leave off the throttle if I don't want to, as I have done quite frequently with out any noticeable damage in over 3 years of use.

Yes, but can you shift just as quickly in your friend's diesel hatchback? Or your grandfather's pickup truck? Or your father's 60's sportscar? Or the bus you drive for work? People shift in GT5 how they do their real life car, and that's something which might not work for all other applications as well. But in real life, there's a physical barrier that says, "that ain't gonna work!" You have to make adjustments when you drive different manual transmission cars, so why shouldn't you adjust for GT? All the cars in GT shift pretty much exactly the same, so once you figure it out, it's quite easy.

With experience and proper rev-matching, you can "speed shift" most cars--but I wouldn't risk making a shift without the "proper" use of the clutch. ...and when you're RACING and gearing down and up through your turn's driving line, you have to be REALLY GOOD at it--but there isn't that much of an advantage. Also, there are short-throw to long-throw clutches, and every time I get into a "new" car that I'm not familiar with, the very first thing I do is establish where the clutch engages for that car and how much slip and bite the pressure plate provides. Then while parked and as I drive and start to "shake down" the car, I get a feel for the stick and how it "interacts" with the transmission. ...and eventually, I start establishing a "memory" for the brake and throttle. ...and I don't establish any of this by LOOKING at anything.

So if you can take a minute to figure the nuances of driving a manual car you're not used to, why can't you take a minute and figure out the nuances of driving a manual car in GT?

The IDEAL simulator shifter peripheral would be one that "kicks back" and/or locks you out of going into the gear should you get it totally wrong. If you "grind" it, then vibration motors in the shifter would provide the feedback through your hand--just like in a real car.

So the ideal simulator shifter peripheral does physically exactly what the GT software does when you mess up a shift, since the average wheel peripheral doesn't have a properly simulated shifter.


Back on topic, I use a G25 and shifting in GT5 and GT6 demo is fine for me. I shift the same way in GT that I do in iRacing, rFactor, my real car, and race cars and have had no problems.

 

[avens]

I'd prefer a better tire model first. That's something that affects everyone and that has a bigger impact than a decent clutch (lfs is way better and is 3 years older than the ps3).

 

[ApexVGear]

gar529, just keep on enjoying your GT5 as it is. I'd assume you'd be happy if someone gave you a real Lotus Esprit, and it behaved the same way.

I'm am not going to "adapt" to a video game (that is not a simulator in this regard) when driving the Mazda 787B or a C9 while Gran Turismo FEELS just like the huge U-Haul truck I drove when I helped move my girlfriend and her family while I was in high school. It had seven gears, and the stick was so "wobbly" you never where really sure what gear it was in--if it even was in gear. At least in GT5, you can stop racing, look at the corner of the screen, and it will tell you "something"--you're in "N."

I don't believe any of the simulated clutch models are "perfect" but Gran Turismo's couldn't be worse.

 

[eight6er]

Yes, but can you shift just as quickly in your friend's diesel hatchback? Or your grandfather's pickup truck? Or your father's 60's sportscar? Or the bus you drive for work? People shift in GT5 how they do their real life car, and that's something which might not work for all other applications as well. But in real life, there's a physical barrier that says, "that ain't gonna work!" You have to make adjustments when you drive different manual transmission cars, so why shouldn't you adjust for GT? All the cars in GT shift pretty much exactly the same, so once you figure it out, it's quite easy.


So if you can take a minute to figure the nuances of driving a manual car you're not used to, why can't you take a minute and figure out the nuances of driving a manual car in GT?

Because it's not like learning the nuances of a real gearbox, in all the cars I have ever driven, I never came across a car than needed to be driven like GT.

I don't get any satisfaction from learning to change gears in GT, because it doesn't feel natural at all, it is far removed from reality. Changing gears in a real car requires no real thought, it just happens. Changing gears in GT takes focus away from the driving and ruins the immersion.

 

[Davis]

I just use the G27, unmodified. There just isn't any feel with the clutch. When I bought my Cooper I was interested to see how it compared in GT5, and needless to say I was disappointed to the extreme.

What I've noticed about it in game is that the friction point is basically the end of the pedal's travel. What catches me out on shifts in the game is making sure to press the pedal to the floor, whereas in the actual car there's a lot more play in the gearbox, room for error. Starting slowly from a stop is a mess in GT5, I practically have to reach 5k RPM before moving. In real life its more like 1500 from what I've experienced.

You get a lot more feedback through the wheel when driving a real car than what GT5/6 translates back to you. I can feel the steering loosen up when the car gets past the friction point, something that isn't modeled in GT5/6. Its a broken model. It conveys the general idea (i.e. pushing the pedal ) but its lacking in overall feel. It doesn't help that the pedal is the same stiffness all the way through. Shifting a real car is a pleasure, GT has turned it into a chore.

And for some reason the game doesn't like shifting into 2nd quickly.

 

[ApexVGear]

I'd prefer a better tire model first. That's something that affects everyone and that has a bigger impact than a decent clutch (lfs is way better and is 3 years older than the ps3).

Better tire models are definitely great, and that's an EXCELLENT topic for another thread. :-)

But what difference does a great tire model make when you're constantly "shifting" and getting "N" and COASTING? Sometimes, you can attempt and fail to get it in gear so many times, you come to a stop at the end of a straightaway.

Until the tires are being "driven" by a working transmission, the best tire model in the world is practically useless.

 

[Lock2Lock]

As said before its not so much the Clutch in GT which works as a real clutch would (Removing/Allowing power to be sent to the driving wheel's) GT's Clutch does this with a distinct bite point & is not the ON/OFF switch that some claim it to be. The problem is PD not letting us Flatshift with the Clutch instead putting us into N this also causes trouble when doing heal & toe downshifts too.

I use a unmodified G27. I did reverse mount the pedals within its own case though.
To tell you the truth Lerk, i hardly ever miss shift while shifting down. Even while heal toeing down, I hardly miss shift.

I just wish you can adjust where the clutch can be engaged. That's my main issue with the clutch. I just hate that about 90% of the time you have to push the pedal all the way down to engage it. If we could adjust it then that would be great.

 

[avens]

Better tire models are definitely great, and that's an EXCELLENT topic for another thread. :-)

But what difference does a great tire model make when you're constantly "shifting" and getting "N" and COASTING? Sometimes, you can attempt and fail to get it in gear so many times, you come to a stop at the end of a straightaway.

Until the tires are being "driven" by a working transmission, the best tire model in the world is practically useless.

A fraction of players use wheels that have clutch+H-shifter, even less so use it (it's slower), whereas everyone will feel a better tire model. I'd say it's more important than the suspension changes that everyone praises.

 

[Stephanos82]

I agree with OP! I too use a CSR Elite but with g25 pedals.. Gear change is horrible in GΤ!!

 

[ApexVGear]

A fraction of players use wheels that have clutch+H-shifter, even less so use it (it's slower), whereas everyone will feel a better tire model. I'd say it's more important than the suspension changes that everyone praises.

I'd like to see the numbers, but even so, if a player is not choosing to use their shifter, and it's "slower," it's because IT IS a terrible clutch model and a chore to use. In Forza 4, because the clutch model is good, in "lower-class" races (such as the Clio Cup) drivers who know how to use a manual transmission do have an advantage over those using sequential (stick, paddle, and controller). While sequential stick or paddle shifting offers (mostly) an advantage for more powerful and lighter cars with better handling (most super cars and race cars up through P1 and Formulas), a skilled driver can use the clutch, time their shifting, and heel-toe to better control street, sport, and some super cars, and they have an advantage over drivers in the same cars with paddle shifting. Though paddle shifting does have it's advantages on the higher end, it actually hinders a good driver on the lower to mid-range cars. I would definitely enjoy paddle shifting in a higher-end Ferrari, but I prefer a manual and clutch in something like a Lotus Exige.

So... a player that invests $300 to $800 in a wheel, pedals, and shifter (setting aside a $30-40 controller) because they want more immersion (and maybe bring their experience from real life), should not be upset about this? Gran Turismo 5 has been out for three years, there was an update to address this, and it made very little improvement, if any.

It was great I had other options I could turn to (Forza 4, PC sims), and use my wheel, pedals, and shifter so I could appreciate the major investment I made to have a "realistic" and more immersive experience in a simulator.

If I had ONLY bought a Playstation 3, my G27 (and now Fanatec setup) and Gran Turismo 5, I would be very upset, and Polyphony Digital, Sony, and Logitech would have heard from me, probably way before now. At the very least, I'm just disappointed--and I was a long time fan of the Gran Turismo series.

If GT5 was my only option after this investment, and I had heard there was an update coming to address this, and upon it's release there was very little improvement (as was the actual case when it did happen), I would have felt like I had been led on by Polyphony Digital, and they could care less about the investment I had made--and I would have sought some kind of compensation or replacement.

In the first year of "playing" Gran Turismo 5, I struggled with the clutch and completed it. Then Forza 4 came out, and their clutch model was what I had been waiting for. I might go back to GT5 occasionally to drive a paddle-shift or sequential stick car, but I can't stand a full manual transmission in GT5.

Considering my history with this series (I had a Japanese copy of the original Gran Turismo and was playing several months before most others were in the U.S.) I want to be "brought back" to continue to fully support everything Kaz Yamauchi and Polyphony Digital have delivered to it's long time fans.

Fix the clutch model, and I'll be back. Until then, I can't appreciate any other improvements Gran Turismo will offer.

 

[Stephanos82]

A fraction of players use wheels that have clutch+H-shifter, even less so use it (it's slower), whereas everyone will feel a better tire model. I'd say it's more important than the suspension changes that everyone praises.

After spending hours on GT6 I honestly don't see any tyre physics improvement! Suspension and body roll - Sweet!
The way the tyre gies from grip to slip - still suxx

And the fact that not so many users play it with gated shifter doesn't make up fir the fact that the way it works suxx..
So just because I like pistachio ice cream that not many people like, I shouldn't complain if the ice cream man serves it to me and it tastes crap and nohing like pistachio! Pistachio should be pistachio and shifter should work like a shifter !!!!

 

[Reddee]

I didn't pay £250 for a wheel for GT5 to have an absolute joke of a clutch. I'm fine when it comes to racing or down shifting but when It comes to drifting the clutch really annoys me. Ill be drifting a long corner in say 3rd gear, my car just about tops out, I need to shift fast into 4th FAST being the problem. If I shift fast the car goes into neutral, if I shift slow the car straightens because I need to let off the accelerator for too long. When you drift you need lightening fast shifts or you doomed this is such a disappointment and something you wouldn't expect from such a well known game as GT. come on PD you getting molested by games that are 3+ years older ha ha.

 

[Lock2Lock]

I didn't pay £250 for a wheel for GT5 to have an absolute joke of a clutch. I'm fine when it comes to racing or down shifting but when It comes to drifting the clutch really annoys me. Ill be drifting a long corner in say 3rd gear, my car just about tops out, I need to shift fast into 4th FAST being the problem. If I shift fast the car goes into neutral, if I shift slow the car straightens because I need to let off the accelerator for too long. When you drift you need lightening fast shifts or you doomed this is such a disappointment and something you wouldn't expect from such a well known game as GT. come on PD you getting molested by games that are 3+ years older ha ha.

I had the same problem as you Dean when I first got my G27. Remember you and Eric used to laugh at me cursing at 4th gear a the time? I'll show you a few things later today or tomorrow that will help you with this.

 

[avens]

Of course. The thing is there are other priorities, even when I'd personally like a better clutch (g27 owner).

The clutch can be acceptable if PD changes that shifting manually doesn't require as much clutch pressed as it is right now. That shouldn't be hard to change as it is just a value, right.

What would be time consuming is making a real clutch system that is more than pressing a button, but in that case I prefer having a better tire model first than that sim-like clutch.

 

[ApexVGear]

Of course. The thing is there are other priorities, even when I'd personally like a better clutch (g27 owner).

I definitely agree that there are numerous other changes and improvements that we will see at the release of GT6, and there is another thread on this forum (over 180 pages) with ideas from members.

Let's say, if GT6 comes out and it is "The MOST ULTIMATE Driving Simulator," and offers every improvement you could possibly imagine, from the best tire model ever, variety of events, endless modifications, realistic damage and repairs, managed online full-season and endurance races, every track in the world, on and on and on... a complete and utter fantasy world for car enthusiasts...

except that the clutch is still the same as it is in GT5 (and now the demo)...

That would make the clutch issue even worse for me.

It would be like someone dropping off the ultimate supercar in my driveway, just giving it to me. It could go over 250 mph... but it has a limiter on it that there's no way to remove that keeps it under 40 mph. I guess I could just putt around in my neighborhood.

[ This reminds me of the GT-Rs in Japan that use GPS to electronically limit the maximum speed on public roads, only relinquishing full power when the computer determines you're on an approved race track. I just COULD NOT drive a GT-R in this "limited" mode. ]

 

[Lock2Lock]

Of course. The thing is there are other priorities, even when I'd personally like a better clutch (g27 owner).

The clutch can be acceptable if PD changes that shifting manually doesn't require as much clutch pressed as it is right now. That shouldn't be hard to change as it is just a value, right.

What would be time consuming is making a real clutch system that is more than pressing a button, but in that case I prefer having a better tire model first than that sim-like clutch.

Just changing a value in the game, it's that simple. I am tempted to try to figure out what number changed when they fixed the clutch a while back. It would take some time, but I am sure like everything else in the game can be adjusted through hybriding.

Let you guys know if I figure it out.

 

[Griffith500]

They just need to add the option to remove the selector checks on the throttle position and make the gear selection function a poll (the game checks it every "tick") rather than an event (the game only registers changes in stick position).

Maybe they could tweak the axis, maybe they could add in some kind of "simulation" of the clusters and selectors so that clutchless changes are possible in the right situations etc., but those first two things are the most important in my opinion.

 

[another_jakhole]

They just need to add the option to remove the selector checks on the throttle position and make the gear selection function a poll (the game checks it every "tick") rather than an event (the game only registers changes in stick position).

Maybe they could tweak the axis, maybe they could add in some kind of "simulation" of the clusters and selectors so that clutchless changes are possible in the right situations etc., but those first two things are the most important in my opinion.

Which begs the question: What about damage?

Would they need to ignore it? Well, it's not like it has been paid attention to with GT5's damage system about every single detail in which a car would falter. But, well yeah, never mind. It's up to Kaz, whether or not, damage has a greater presence in GT.

 

[Reddee]

I had the same problem as you Dean when I first got my G27. Remember you and Eric used to laugh at me cursing at 4th gear a the time? I'll show you a few things later today or tomorrow that will help you with this.

Thanks zack to be honest I'm sort of giving up on the clutch and just paddle shifting until they fix it. I feel I have wasted my money using the paddles though lol.