Flaws of the tyre model simulation

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Lord Protector, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. Lord Protector

    Lord Protector

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    :banghead::banghead::banghead:
     
  2. danh25

    danh25

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    see that it is not mandatory to post:lol:


    wait for more comments;)
     
  3. Lord Protector

    Lord Protector

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    I would love to see a video footage of something relative to the OP.
     
  4. Sharpie

    Sharpie

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    That on stock tires? I guess I'm going to test this myself to see what is what.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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  5. VBR

    VBR Premium

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    Did you just floor the throttle, or did you use some throttle control? What tyres were you using? Was TC on or off? Was the car tuned or stock?
     
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  6. Salty66

    Salty66

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    The type R just spins on the spot, hitting the rev limiter while sounding like a digitized car then bogs down for a good 2 seconds when you hit 2nd gear. Same crap different day.[/QUOTE]

    Try with TCS set to 1. I managed a 0-60 time of 5.8sec on sports hard tires which is close to the real time of 5.5s (depending on source). Still no torque steer though.
     
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  7. Sharpie

    Sharpie

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    Also can stretching transmission compose for wheel spin if yes then I'm happy.
     
  8. xBSxChadSpeed

    xBSxChadSpeed

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    Try with TCS set to 1. I managed a 0-60 time of 5.8sec on sports hard tires which is close to the real time of 5.5s (depending on source). Still no torque steer though.[/QUOTE]

    We shouldn’t have to use TCS to get realistic times though. However many cars now have a launch control to help with big power. GT has always had this issue since the first one. It’s not a huge deal, not a problem that affects me during racing for the most part. I wish it was better but not a deal breaker.
     
  9. simsimsheree

    simsimsheree

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    Has anyone tried eyeballing the throttle reduction with TCS on, then replicating with actual throttle input?

    This is how I basically dialed it in in GT6 if you couldn't floor it at launch. It's a lot tougher in GTS because of the non-linear throttle, though.
     
  10. Hoopzah

    Hoopzah

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    We shouldn’t have to use TCS to get realistic times though. However many cars now have a launch control to help with big power. GT has always had this issue since the first one. It’s not a huge deal, not a problem that affects me during racing for the most part. I wish it was better but not a deal breaker.[/QUOTE]

    Not to be a stickers but technically you should have to, considering when 0-60 tests are done, it's almost always with TC engaged believe it or not... This creates a type of "standard" between various makes/ models.

    It also takes alot of practice to be able to rev up, drop clutch, and GOOOO without wheelspin in an actual automobile. To do it virtually where there's no "feel" is even harder I suppose.

    Not a deal breaker for me either.
     
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  11. Lord Protector

    Lord Protector

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    viperconcept channel on youtube made this great video on this topic and I think more people should see this :)



    It shows perfectly the endless wheel spin problem (which is still present, after the "new" tire model. BUT! It has nothing to do with the torque as viperconcept thinks. It is that once the tires start spinning, they do not want to gain the grip back they just blatantly spin with no ending, unless you provide less throttle. That is why using the TCS is crucial while accelerating, because once the tires start spinning it instantly corrects them, until they start spinning again. A recent update helped a tiny bit by giving the tires more grip, but they did not fix the wheel-spin-no-grip issue.
     
  12. NevilleNobody

    NevilleNobody

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    My issue is with the Porsche Group 3 car, it used to be so much fun but now, after the new model, I need to use TC and when i do it just bogs down like crazy, absolutely killing acceleration.
     
  13. golfer07840

    golfer07840

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    I have my TCS set for 1 and that seems to do the trick.

    Meanwhile, the Audi R8 LMS is borderline undrivable now unless you put TCS up higher.

    With that said, I do wonder; That particular R8 was designed with TCS in mind. So it begs the question: If the car, in reality, is designed to run with TCS on, isn't it better to have TCS on?
     
  14. NevilleNobody

    NevilleNobody

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    I have no ethical issue using TC, it's just a game and with a controller you need a little help imho.

    I need TC2 on the Porsche now and it's butchered it, so slow out of corners it's ridiculous. undriveable now for me.
     
  15. Magog

    Magog

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    Why would TCS make a car slower? Losing grip means losing acceleration, no?
     
  16. danardif1

    danardif1

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    There is a % of slip that is desirable for best acceleration (I remember Martin Brundle used to say for a standing start in F1 the cars want to achieve 7% slip). What TCS can do is take away that slip by reducing the power available and then you don't get the power you want in order to go faster... which is why the lower you are comfortable running TCS the better, as the more natural slip from the tyres will be allowed and you will get better acceleration overall, provided you have some level of throttle control.
     
  17. SDSPOWER01

    SDSPOWER01

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    I am sure I read that he said that the excessive amount of torque present in GT sport is exactly the problem, causing the wheels to spin endlessly.
    Screenshot_20180906-104723.png
     
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  18. Lord Protector

    Lord Protector

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    It is not.
     
  19. SDSPOWER01

    SDSPOWER01

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    :confused: can you explain, I am confused..
     
  20. danardif1

    danardif1

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    If a car uses TC in real life, I use it too. I have no issues with using it in general, so if someone feels they need it to use a car that normally wouldn't have the option, that's okay by me it is 'just' a game, but my personal preference is keep it reasonably authentic.
     
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  21. azrilnazli

    azrilnazli

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    In iRacing Mercedes GT3, there are 12 TC values that I choose and adjustable while driving. Driving without TC in iRacing is suicide.

    So does in GTS, driving a GT3 car without TC is less realistic.
     
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  22. Boedefeld

    Boedefeld

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    Which cars don't use TC that are in GTS?

    The Mercedes F1 car and the SUPER GT cars, is that it?
     
  23. Magog

    Magog

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    I don't think the Beetle or Sambabus came with TC standard.
     
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  24. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    This is also my opinion , this must be the physical representation of the torque in GT that is totally wrong.
    How can you explain another way that a late '17 '18 F1 car's tires can handle around 6.5 G under braking and also laterally with the help of the downforce and around 3.5 G during a standing start from 0 kmh to 100 kmh in 2.5 seconds......
    In GT the same car spin till 4th gear and can't support more than 1.5 G out a corner or standing start ????
    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...e-rises-in-g-force.vX8IhGjqmsaCoyy2uKKOi.html
     
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  25. Knukel

    Knukel

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    If there's excessive amount of torque why not repeat the test with RSS tyres without slipping??
     
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  26. Lord Protector

    Lord Protector

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    Because the F1 car uses RM tires, instead of SH used in the video. Why not try the car with SH then?
     
  27. Azerach

    Azerach

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    I'm inclined to agree with the torque theory. Especially before the tyre update it was really easy to lose a Gr3 car on up to third gear. One Just needs to look at Tidgneys BoP analysis videos to see how pervasive the problem is.

    There has to be some kind of error in how torque is transferred from engine through the gears. The lower the gear the more excess torque is delivered. I should do testing on gearing when I get home.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  28. Lord Protector

    Lord Protector

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    The way I see it, the friction between tires and track is too low. Tires don't "want" to gain the grip when spinning.
     
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  29. phil_75

    phil_75

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    The problem is the default TC settings.

    1 Does basically nothing, only use for standing starts

    2 Too much, kills throttle when cornering losing too much time to be useful.

    3 For beginners.

    4 Why?

    5 Who why when where?

    They should be set with smaller increments.
     
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  30. BLiTZ

    BLiTZ

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    Since the new tyre model this is even more pronounced. The speed lost with FR cars on fast corners is now really noticable, if I have time then I try to kncok down to 1 for certain sections, but often that's not suitable if you have a slow corner coming up and need the stabilty of 2.

    Right now I feel I need a 1.5 setting.
     
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