FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scaff
  • 8,743 comments
  • 624,529 views
Until some folks startet to resort to some personal digs, but hey, what's the difference, right?

It's still discussion not flaming. THE FIRST THING I Did was point out the smoke that had nothing to do with opinion but fact as we can all see with our own eyes, then the some of yall became defensive.
 
So this thread is now the FM vs. hypothetical-PC-FM4 thread?


EDIT:




http://www.abload.de/img/gt3_rs_1080znkl.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz40/borisyohanavitch/Forza%203/Stitched%20Shots/PorschePanameraStitch.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8273/forza35y.jpg[/IMG

But I do agree with waiting until the game is out to compare. Or at the very least wait for the demo.[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

The Porsche's are edited and pieced together and still don't compare to the quality of the pre release shot I posted. The third pic looks very average.

[quote="cuco33, post: 5921668"]Actually you can get that quality. T10 said from the get go that all images they've used for promo use have been taken directly from the game and are not bullshots, meaning not post processed on some PC with edits. In game the visuals are good but when you pause and go to photomode you basically allow the game to bump up the visuals for even better looking visuals. All racers do this to my knowledge, even if adding more AA or doing model swaps. GT is even guilty of this.

One of the problems was in the photo export. When uploading to FM.net the quality of the photos you take in the game reduced due to compression issues and when you uploaded that photo to a site like photobucket or flickr, those sites add their own compression techniques sometimes further reducing the quality of the image even more. T10 went out of their way to give us big photo mode, meaning no compression at all, and improve the photo export to resolve issues we had before.
[/QUOTE]

I have a capture card to bypass compression, the pre-release photos are extremely high quality and nothing like what can be captured. I'm just reminding that we had this in 2009, people getting carried away.

It is certainly possible to get something similar in quality generated on console for photomode but Forza 3 didn't have it for us customers. We'll have to wait and see how good FM4 photomode is. We can't compare these pre release images to GT5 gameplay. People have already fallen foul posting this below as gameplay two years ago and even FM3 photomode didn't get close.

[url]http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/2592/fm3sti1.jpg[/url]
Even a pixel perfect capture card can't grab this quality as the retail Forza 3 never generated anything this good.

[quote="OGL, post: 5921553"]LOLWUT?! There is plenty of gameplay released just today in good quality on gamespot. And we haven't even seen the Nordshleife yet.:sly:[/QUOTE]

That's true. I hope they give some attention to the Nurburgring.

[quote="Hotspitta, post: 5921848"]Hey Chromatic, big fan. ontopic. I agree that GT5 still has that extra [I]shine[/I] and the Nurb in gt5 is better. But that's about where it ends. As a game Gt5 doesn't hold a candle against FM4 nor FM3 for that matter. I wont get into the detail other that i bought a ps3 for gt5 and sold it after a couple of months. Fm is where its at. I'm pretty certain that forza 4 graphics fedility can match gt5.

Anyone should know that especially you. The possibilties... No more endless searching for the right angle for reflection and nice hotspots to appear. And as a bonus we get Bigshot.
[/QUOTE]

Forza 3 has some awesome road textures, far superior tyre and wheels in photomode and yes I agree that overall FM4 will surpass GT5. GT5 has lots of issues in photos and gameplay. I'm surprised how bad the tyre renders are in phototravel, how the colour banding is and pixelation everywhere, so many low poly wheel arches. T10 do it right by swapping in a tessellated car on some nice tyres.

Bigshot
[url]http://download.xbox.com/content/mgs/forza/en-US/forzamain/blog/mainimage/BMW_M5_Bigshot_on_track.jpg[/url]

Looks pretty good so far. I won't be able to access bigshot unless I get xbox live gold. You only get a very limited amount of uploads but at least its generated at high res.
 
Last edited:
It's still discussion not flaming. THE FIRST THING I Did was point out the smoke that had nothing to do with opinion but fact as we can all see with our own eyes, then the some of yall became defensive.
If you consider mentioning the downside that GT5's graphics come with (which basically everything in GT5 does) getting deffensive, fine.

However, when people start some calling others names because they appearently can't think of any better arguments, that's when the debate isn't worth being continued, in my opinion.
 
^I haven't "name called" once in this thread .Stop making up stuff.

I was never debating the graphical fidelity of GT5 other than the smoke.

FM4 will endure the same criticisms fore better or for worse.
 
^I haven't "name called" once in this thread .Stop making up stuff.

I was never debating the graphical fidelity of GT5 other than the smoke.

FM4 will endure the same criticisms fore better or for worse.
Is your username "some folks" now? :odd:

Ah, forget it, I guess t.o. is right, best to leave this thread until the initial commotion has settled down a bit.
 
^There is no commotion. The some of you get worked up.

And you refuse to refute anything I said.
I name called no one. I started by speaking on the dynamics of the smoke.

It seems like you're giving up on something you're trying to win.
 
What the? I didn't want to spill it out, but if you can't get it, I was reffering to Astro-Racer's post where he thought of me and Bogie as T10/MS employees.

Just so you get it: I. Was. Not. Reffering. To. You. That's why I was talking about commotion.

Now, regarding the smoke. Nice you got that smoke in GT5. That's all well and good and I'd like that volume of smoke and the same dynamics in FM3/4. However, I'd rather have the little amount off smoke Forza offers for a very simple reason:

GT5's smoke still causes more issues than FM3's. Namely pixelation of cars and, from my experience and from what it looked like in the "Digital Foundry Lense of Truth"-video, it even contributes to framete drops and screen tearing. Now, I know it has improved and yada yada, however, the point remains unchanged: I am not the kind of guy who'd want to drop things like V-Sync or a steady framerate or resolution for added visual effects, plain and simple.

If you're different, fine. I'm just not in touch with PD's course of action to implement features that would strain the hardware beyond a steady 60FPS and somewhat decent V-Sync.

This goes for weather effects, too, of course.

Just don't expect me to write out the same full-fledged explanation every single time a new face appears in here and spews some one liner.
 
Well, if GT5 physics can't match up to FM3 physics, I think GT5 will not match up with FM4.
Considering your past posts about GT5's physics, I'd say you're very wrong.
@Bogie
That's a joke, GT5 is the best physics on console to date.
Again, no, not really. Both games lack in certain departments.
Guys FM4 is nearing release and some great info is coming out. This is bound to bring the haters in full force looking for a reason to justify playing a game they know in their hearts "failed" this time around by berating one that looks like it's headed to the next level. Brace for it because it'll be full tilt till about a month after release. The only thing that will slow it down will be the fact that while we're playing we wont have much time to come to the forums and debate a FM vs GT thread. We'll likely be in other threads where we'll have a hate free environment. So hold tight fellas.
So, the GT fanboys can't throw out any sort of complaint without being labeled as haters, but you can have folks like Hotspitta brown nosing the hell out of FM4 with comments like, "GT5 wrap it up"?

This section is nothing more than the GT5 forum, with the games switched around.
 
Both games lack in certain departments.

Agreed

So, the GT fanboys can't throw out any sort of complaint without being labeled as haters, .

It's the way their complaint is said. It comes out more as a flame and not just a complaint. For instance; take the line above which you wrote that I agreed with you on. Notice the way it's written vs the other people that just come here and flame on this thread. What you wrote opens the topic up for discussion. The way the "haters" write it just opens it up for argument and disrespectful comments back and forth.

Another example would be the difference between someone making a complaint about the Ring in Forza (which we can all admit it has it's flaws). Saying the Ring is too wide or this or that is fine because it opens it up for discussion or debate but when someone comes out and says the Ring in Forza sucks along with every other track, that is just looking for an argument.
 
Last edited:
It's the way their complaint is said. It comes out more as a flame and not just a complaint. For instance; take the line above which you wrote that I agreed with you on. Notice the way it's written vs the other people that just come here and flame on this thread. What you wrote opens the topic up for discussion. The way the "haters" write it just opens it up for argument and disrespectful comments back and forth.
So, again, the GT "haters" can't make flame posts towards Forza, but the Forza folks can towards about how GT is a failure of a game (note that these are claims normally being presented as facts rather opinions)?
Another example would be the difference between someone making a complaint about the Ring in Forza (which we can all admit it has it's flaws). Saying the Ring is too wide or this or that is fine because it opens it up for discussion or debate but when someone comes out and says the Ring in Forza sucks along with every other track, that is just looking for an argument.
True, but you think members here saying, "LOL, GT5 is done" is any better? I can perfectly see posts like Hotspitta's being open to argument just as much as someone claiming GT5 is the most realistic console sim.

I don't know if it's been the recent amount of news being released, but there are folks in this forum who are making posts just as bad as the ones they claim the GT guys are making about each title.
 
Last edited:
Don't worry, I'm sure when Scaff pops in he will clean it up a bit but spittas posts seem less serious than say akiiras and his claims and opinions that contradict facts.
 
^ GT5's premium models still have the edge. That GT5 pic looks real. FM4 has made up allot of ground compared to where it was in FM3 but GT5 still holds 1st place in this category over any racing game ever made imo. It's starting to get close though.

So, again, the GT "haters" can't make flame posts towards Forza, but the Forza folks can towards about how GT is a failure of a game (note that these are claims normally being presented as facts rather opinions)?

I'm not saying to wrongs make a right but those comments usually are a response to the GT fans hating on Forza. Most of us have said good and bad things about both games.

True, but you think members here saying, "LOL, GT5 is done" is any better? I can perfectly see posts like Hotspitta's being open to argument just as much as someone claiming GT5 is the most realistic console sim.

Like FyreandIce said "spittas posts seem less serious than say akiiras and his claims and opinions that contradict facts."

I don't know if it's been the recent amount of news being released, but there are folks in this forum who are making posts just as bad as the ones they claim the GT guys are making about each title.

I think it is. GT fans were the same way when GT5 was about to drop. Thats all you heard was how GT5 is going to own Forza.
 
I'm not saying to wrongs make a right but those comments usually are a response to the GT fans hating on Forza. Most of us have said good and bad things about both games.
In the past, yes. Lately, it's been in response to nothing, but the new media.
Like FyreandIce said "spittas posts seem less serious than say akiiras and his claims and opinions that contradict facts."
That doesn't change a thing because he's not the only one & it's just going to get the GT5 posters riled up again.
I think it is. GT fans were the same way when GT5 was about to drop. Thats all you heard was how GT5 is going to own Forza.
Which is why I said this has become the GT5 forum....
 
Which is why I said this has become the GT5 forum....

I still think the GT guys were much worse. Things will settle down a bit once the game has been out for a while. I'm sure people will find things that could be better. Afterall no game is perfect. There will always be things that could be done better.
 
I still think the GT guys were much worse. Things will settle down a bit once the game has been out for a while. I'm sure people will find things that could be better. Afterall no game is perfect. There will always be things that could be done better.
Yes, they were worse, but that doesn't justify the hypocritical posts being made recently which is my point. Someone can make posts about GT5 being crushed, but when someone replies with a similar post that shows off GT5, they get told to come to this thread.

I'll cut it here, though. I made this mistake before in the GT5 forum & got bombarded by the very people I was referring to. And I know it will happen here if I push further.
 

Yeah, GT5 wins hands down. While the Forza LFA looks good, you know that it's an image from a computer game. If I didn't know a thing about GT5 and someone showed me that image, I would think someone took a photo of the LFA outside a real life cafe somewhere. That's the big difference.
 
Yeah, GT5 wins hands down. While the Forza LFA looks good, you know that it's an image from a computer game. If I didn't know a thing about GT5 and someone showed me that image, I would think someone took a photo of the LFA outside a real life cafe somewhere. That's the big difference.

I agree GT5 looks phenomenal in that shot. However, let's wait and see how great FM4 can look in it's photo mode locations. This vid looks as though FM4 might get a bit closer.

 
94424336.jpg

Yeah, GT5 wins hands down. While the Forza LFA looks good, you know that it's an image from a computer game. If I didn't know a thing about GT5 and someone showed me that image, I would think someone took a photo of the LFA outside a real life cafe somewhere. That's the big difference.

GT5 hands down doesn't win anything in that comparison. You're comparing the car under two COMPLETELY different light sources. Especially when it's know that FM4 has a scene similar to that GT5 pic's light source.

Why don't you wait till you can get FM4's LFA in this FM4 scene:

splash.jpg



Then we can start talking.
 
I'd be on the fence with this comparison shot. Outside of AutoVista, it's going to be quite hard to match Photo Travel. That's where GT5 brings the big guns and I think we all know that.

Granted, I think t.o. also has a point, the flat white lighting isn't helping FM4's LFA in that shot, I guess it's natural that the lighting looks a little dull in comparison.

Putting both cars in similar loccations will probably help to make a better comparison... And while I feel that GT5 still has an edge in Photo Travel, I assume that a lot of the ups and downs in the comparisons that are bound to be made will hinge upon the photographers skills.

Right now, that's just a feeling, but I've seen people get pretty good shots out of FM3 with the right camera settings while others looked like crap - same goes for GT5 of course.
 
I'd be on the fence with this comparison shot. Outside of AutoVista, it's going to be quite hard to match Photo Travel. That's where GT5 brings the big guns and I think we all know that.

Granted, I think t.o. also has a point, the flat white lighting isn't helping FM4's LFA in that shot, I guess it's natural that the lighting looks a little dull in comparison.

Putting both cars in similar loccations will probably help to make a better comparison... And while I feel that GT5 still has an edge in Photo Travel, I assume that a lot of the ups and downs in the comparisons that are bound to be made will hinge upon the photographers skills.

Right now, that's just a feeling, but I've seen people get pretty good shots out of FM3 with the right camera settings while others looked like crap - same goes for GT5 of course.

There's even a shot of the LFA in the leaked trailer in a barn and the lighting on that looks better than the warehouse LFA shot above. I don't know what was with the decision to use that environment/lighting combo by T10. It really isn't all that flattering and I've thought that since day one.
 
I don't know what was with the decision to use that environment/lighting combo by T10. It really isn't all that flattering and I've thought that since day one.
Agreed. Other homespaces seem to be much more flattering.
 
HBK
Agreed. Other homespaces seem to be much more flattering.

To be honest every single other I've seen seems to be much more flattering. Maybe this is there way of giving us the "WOW" when we get it to our consoles.
 
Aside from photorealism we can talk about actual car models, from what I see FM4 isn't behind GT5 in this department and has almost 3 times the total amount of cars. Having them all look good and consistent is an achievement if you ask me.
But in terms of photorealism FM isn't far behind now and we haven't even seen all photomode locations. And ofcourse it is a major step forward from FM3 where in 300 pages of photorealistic thread on FM Forum there is not a single one I can call realistic - any random noob's photo in GT 5 will be miles ahead.
 
Bigshot
http://download.xbox.com/content/mg...in/blog/mainimage/BMW_M5_Bigshot_on_track.jpg

Looks pretty good so far. I won't be able to access bigshot unless I get xbox live gold. You only get a very limited amount of uploads but at least its generated at high res.

I get a 404 error with that url :(

What the? I didn't want to spill it out, but if you can't get it, I was reffering to Astro-Racer's post where he thought of me and Bogie as T10/MS employees.

Just so you get it: I. Was. Not. Reffering. To. You. That's why I was talking about commotion.

Now, regarding the smoke. Nice you got that smoke in GT5. That's all well and good and I'd like that volume of smoke and the same dynamics in FM3/4. However, I'd rather have the little amount off smoke Forza offers for a very simple reason:

GT5's smoke still causes more issues than FM3's. Namely pixelation of cars and, from my experience and from what it looked like in the "Digital Foundry Lense of Truth"-video, it even contributes to framete drops and screen tearing. Now, I know it has improved and yada yada, however, the point remains unchanged: I am not the kind of guy who'd want to drop things like V-Sync or a steady framerate or resolution for added visual effects, plain and simple.

If you're different, fine. I'm just not in touch with PD's course of action to implement features that would strain the hardware beyond a steady 60FPS and somewhat decent V-Sync.

This goes for weather effects, too, of course.

Just don't expect me to write out the same full-fledged explanation every single time a new face appears in here and spews some one liner.

You gotta let it go man.

Considering your past posts about GT5's physics, I'd say you're very wrong.

My past posts remain. I stand corrected about one issue, and that was regaining control of your car is way too easy in FM3. But when looking at the physics over all, I still find FM3's better. Keep in mind, I am talking all physics on average. FM3 is by far much better in the tire physics with the tire deformation response. And finally, the physics associated with damage, lost aerodynamics, and tire wear and much more prevalent and accurate in FM3. The physics included with damaged gear boxes, (transmissions), cars pulling left/right with damage front suspension.

GT5 has a more accurate physic model (IMO) when it comes to the actual car to the road feeling. They also reproduce better body roll (visually), and track feedback on bumps.
 
Back