FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Zer0]

Art style? When trying to recreate real life, there should only be one art style: Real life.

[youtubehd]0JXfumJJuQ4&hd=1[/youtubehd]

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I don't know. I guess I'm different. GT's colors seem way to saturated for me. Things in real life are not that vibrant as they are in GT for the most part. The best lighting in GT is during rain or cloudy skies. It's then when I think GT shines but bright sun looks "cartoony" too me.

Monza looks a bit cartoony but I agree GT5 looks better when there is cloudy skies or rain especially on this track.

Looking pretty and looking real are two different things. I've never seen grass in my life look so green as I have in GT5.

I thought you got the Nurburgring GP DLC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bBbN1T9lLI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdN4Edw7xV8&feature=relmfu

GT5 looks pretty real while Forza looks like they are doing the fanatasy thing with real world tracks.

This is a recent lap on the track, they added a little bit to it but it's mostly the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqFLc5HJ14U

Art style? When trying to recreate real life, there should only be one art style: Real life.

Try telling T10 that. GT5 bright tracks look good with an overcast. I don't know why they overdid the brightness in Monza or the Eifel tracks as default though but when you turn it down a bit due to there being time change on tracks it looks pretty good.

 

[Luminis]

[youtubehd]0JXfumJJuQ4&hd=1[/youtubehd]

I think everyone of us knows what real life looks like and should be depicted like, by using our own two eyes, right?

Using differently saturated colours in a video doesn't mean that it's right to do the same in GT5. Unless, of course, you wanted to simulate what a movie would look like. And last time I checked, that wasn't the case.

Try telling T10 that. GT5 bright tracks look good with an overcast. I don't know why they overdid the brightness in Monza or the Eifel tracks as default though but when you turn it down a bit due to there being time change on tracks it looks pretty good.

It's the same for Forza... It also looks much better when you're on the 'Ring with an overcast sky.
All I was actually trying to point out was the double standard that I perceived when I read that bit. People are quick to call Forza cartoonish, but if GT5 does a similiar thing, it's its "art style".

I agree, but all software houses do that. The biggest feature drop, for me, was the online play from GT4. Really, really disappointed with that. YT uploads I really couldn't care about.
But, as you say, for the FMvGT thread.

Well, I went ahead and took it here, then
Thing is, I don't know about many companies that do that kind of last-minute feature drops - or rather, there haven't been many games I followed for which this would be true. As far as games I care(d) about go, GT is probably the only one that did it to that extend.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

It's the same for Forza... It also looks much better when you're on the 'Ring with an overcast sky.
All I was actually trying to point out was the double standard that I perceived when I read that bit. People are quick to call Forza cartoonish, but if GT5 does a similiar thing, it's its "art style".

Yes, the difference is though Forza 3 does not have a time of day and most things look cartoony like the way the car colours look in-game. They also changed the track detail and layouts to what they find they liked better and that is not sticking to real life. The relating to reality with Forza 3 is not there for me on the most part. When I drive the tracks in GT5 I can relate to onboards I've seen of other cars driving the tracks and it looks very similar. In Forza, it is like you are driving a track that is more a vague representation. Circuit de Catalunya is one of the better tracks I would say in Forza where you can relate to reality better than most other real tracks in the game.

 

[Luminis]

Yes, the difference is though Forza 3 does not have a time of day and most things look cartoony like the way the car colours look in-game. They also changed the track detail and layouts to what they find they liked better and that is not sticking to real life. The relating to reality with Forza 3 is not there for me on the most part. When I drive the tracks in GT5 I can relate to onboards I've seen of other cars driving the tracks and it looks very similar. In Forza, it is like you are driving a track that is more a vague representation. Circuit de Catalunya is one of the better tracks I would say in Forza where you can relate to reality better than most other real tracks in the game.

I wouldn't argue against that, because the lack of track accuracy in FM3 is one of my biggest issues with the game. However, if I'm looking at a picture, I can't tell a thing about the track accuracy. It's just about the lighting/colour saturation. GT5 and Forza seem to get it wrong, but fot GT5, it's its art style, and for FM3, it just looks cartoonish. Which seems strange.

And, looking at FM4, it did take a huge step forward, and people are still making that point: It looks cartoonish. When GT5 does depict the same things that make some people consider FM4's pictures to look cartoonish, I just wonder why GT5 isn't considered cartoonish, too.

 

[Spagetti69]

In Forza, it is like you are driving a track that is more a vague representation.

Not sure I can fully relate to that.

Suzuka to my understanding has 3 variants. Except in GT land you get 2.

Le-Sarthe has a Bugatti variant in real life. Not in GT they don't.

Tsukuba also has a variant. That is also not available.

Maybe you think I'm taking your vague statement out of context.
Overall though I feel those Circuits have been better fully represented in F3.

 

[Bogie 19th]

The track accuracy in FM3 is actually pretty dang good, with the exception of the Ring.

 

[t.o.]

The track accuracy in FM3 is actually pretty dang good, with the exception of the Ring.

I thought you guys knew. When talking about tracks in a GT5 vs FM3 debate you're supposed to only use one track in the debate. Whichever one makes GT5 look the best. We're not beating a dead horse here anymore, were beating it's skeleton.

 

[Ral UK]

Well, I went ahead and took it here, then
Thing is, I don't know about many companies that do that kind of last-minute feature drops - or rather, there haven't been many games I followed for which this would be true. As far as games I care(d) about go, GT is probably the only one that did it to that extend.

As far as racing games go, yes, that was a big one. In fact, as far as games go, that "were massive". But it's not unique to PD. In fact, T10 dropped the public custom lobbies from F3 after categorically stating at E3 that "All FM2 online options will be in FM3". Not a biggie with me but big enough for them to bring them back for F4.

 

[Zer0]

I think everyone of us knows what real life looks like and should be depicted like, by using our own two eyes, right?

Using differently saturated colours in a video doesn't mean that it's right to do the same in GT5. Unless, of course, you wanted to simulate what a movie would look like. And last time I checked, that wasn't the case.

If you want a boring looking game yes, if you want the better look for your game not. Every movie has its own art style or depiction of the reality. If you ever saw a making of with a second camera filming in the background vs the final scene you will know the differences. Every magazine photograph is adjusted and color corrected before publishing. Etc.

This is what Kaz said:

“‘Better than reality’ – yeah, that’s one way of putting it. In a way, it’s kind of a given that it’s going to look better than reality. The thing about reality is that the criteria for looking “real” are actually a lot stricter and volatile than you’d expect. The way the sun shines, reflects off something, the way it lights scenery – we seldom have the opportunity to see what we consider “reality” under the best and most aesthetically pleasing conditions.”

“Every time we go out to the circuit and take photos of cars, we get that same impression again. When you see a race on television, compared to a race in a game, you realise that the reality isn’t as shiny or pleasant as the game. However, these “best conditions” do indeed exist. They happen every once in a while. Maybe, once a year, you’ll be watching a race on TV, or you’ll be outside, and a cloud will move in an ideal direction, and the sun will shine down at a perfect angle, and maybe just for a moment you’ll have this beautiful scene right in front of you.”

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5s-graphics-too-good-to-be-true/

A game with vibrant colors is not automatically cartoony. A game with unrealistic lighting, unrealistic looking materials, overdone reflections, etc + saturated colors it is, but the problem in that case is not only in the colors. Proof is that you can adjust the saturation in your tv and the game is still looking the same.

 

[t.o.]

If you want a boring looking game yes, if you want the better look for your game not.

I want a game where when I play it I go "Damn that bleep looks real". No racing game has hit that yet. FM3 and GT5 has had moments like that but on average nobody has hit that yet.

 

[Luminis]

As far as racing games go, yes, that was a big one. In fact, as far as games go, that "were massive". But it's not unique to PD. In fact, T10 dropped the public custom lobbies from F3 after categorically stating at E3 that "All FM2 online options will be in FM3". Not a biggie with me but big enough for them to bring them back for F4.

Not what I would consider a last-minute drop, but yeah, other developers did it too. I guess there are lots of them, but I just don't know a thing about those

After seeing it happen with the two last 'full' releases of GT, it seems, well, like something you'll have to get used to when dealing with PD. Much like the constant release date issues.

If you want a boring looking game yes, if you want the better look for your game not. Every movie has its own art style or depiction of the reality. If you ever saw a making of with a second camera filming in the background vs the final scene you will know the differences. Every magazine photograph is adjusted and color corrected before publishing. Etc.

"A better look"? I mean, as far as I am concerned, if one was to try to replicate the real thing, the single best look would be exactly matching the real thing? How could you possible make something look more realistic than by making it look 100% like the real thing?
It's fine for movies that don't intend to do that, but for a simulator?

 

[zr1chris]

I want a game where when I play it I go "Damn that bleep looks real". No racing game has hit that yet. FM3 and GT5 has had moments like that but on average nobody has hit that yet.

Walking through the garage in PGR3 was the first time I had that moment. Im also still waiting for it to happen while driving.

 

[alucard0712]

If you want a boring looking game yes, if you want the better look for your game not. Every movie has its own art style or depiction of the reality. If you ever saw a making of with a second camera filming in the background vs the final scene you will know the differences. Every magazine photograph is adjusted and color corrected before publishing. Etc.

This is what Kaz said:

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5s-graphics-too-good-to-be-true/

A game with vibrant colors is not automatically cartoony. A game with unrealistic lighting, unrealistic looking materials, overdone reflections, etc + saturated colors it is, but the problem in that case is not only in the colors. Proof is that you can adjust the saturation in your tv and the game is still looking the same.

This.
Agreed completelly! 👍
GT looks natural and we feel it. We don't need the smart explainations about GT's graphics engine, we just see and feel. (exactly opposite is Forza, when T10 always talking about texture resolution, polygon count, lightning engine etc., They just try to convince us, to make us more blind) Good product don't need a adversment.

 

[Ral UK]

I want a game where when I play it I go "Damn that bleep looks real". No racing game has hit that yet. FM3 and GT5 has had moments like that but on average nobody has hit that yet.

I still think GT5 is the benchmark, as far as graphics are concerned. There was a "wow" factor.

However, graphics do not a game make. It just appeals to the masses(casuals), and me .

 

[cuco33]

I want a game where when I play it I go "Damn that bleep looks real". No racing game has hit that yet. FM3 and GT5 has had moments like that but on average nobody has hit that yet.

Some premiums in photo travel that I've taken shots of look like the real thing. Outside of that, not as much. No Forza shot I've taken looks like the real thing. You can tell it's from a video game, and can look phenomenal but there's always something not quite right (not that I care too much). So far some of the images I've seen of Forza 4 are at that premium photo travel quality but I'll wait until the game is in my system.



One thing I do enjoy... Dan Greenwalt and the T10 team not making PR claims of their title being the 'definitive' one. That lead to a bastardization of the webs and ironically one side neglected the fact that PD did similar with their 'standard' lines all over.

 

[Luminis]

There was a "wow" factor.

There was, for sure. It did fell apart due to inconsistencies, though.

Forza never managed to create a wow effect in the first place, though - at least not with the graphics. Other things did wow me about Forza though, primarily the community stuff and the customization, but that's a bit of a different topic.

One thing I do enjoy... Dan Greenwalt and the T10 team not making PR claims of their title being the 'definitive' one. That lead to a bastardization of the webs and ironically one side neglected the fact that PD did similar with their 'standard' lines all over.

*shrug* double sttandards is something one has to get used to when dealing with GT and FM.

 

[JDMKING13]

When I leave a gt5 replay on and a family member comes across it they always think its real and adore the graphics everybody has different tv's so its really hard to debate this topic. I have samsung 240hz true 1080P, and I love it!

 

[Spagetti69]

I can go with that king.
The replays impress me too.

 

[JDMKING13]

I can go with that king.
The replays impress me too.

No doubt man 👍 Im drooling to see this Autovista mode though looks real good, Im sure turn 10 will add more cars to it also.

 

[Zer0]

I want a game where when I play it I go "Damn that bleep looks real". No racing game has hit that yet. FM3 and GT5 has had moments like that but on average nobody has hit that yet.

Looking 100% real is the target, obviously that only can be achieved with tons of processing power. You are not going to see "Avatar" quality in real time into the next years but actually you have games that get more close to that than others.

"A better look"? I mean, as far as I am concerned, if one was to try to replicate the real thing, the single best look would be exactly matching the real thing? How could you possible make something look more realistic than by making it look 100% like the real thing?
It's fine for movies that don't intend to do that, but for a simulator?

Videogames are not too different than movies. I don't see the problem playing a pretty simulator with a more vibrant color style than a sim with a bland amateur camera style. Is not that in real life don't exist vibrant colors or sunny days.. like I said that is not the main problem in a cartoonish looking game, there are a lot of factors, even scales, texture design, background integration, animations, modeling details, etc..

This for example:
[youtubehd]1bBbN1T9lLI&hd=1[/youtubehd]

 

[phillgt2002]

If you think about it you have no reason to talk about Forza like that. You may say that Forza has too vibrant colors and it looks fake and unrealistic : but GT5 has track that look too saturated. Compare GT5's Ring to the Ring in Forza. Forzas Ring looks right in terms of color , GT5's looks like a Green Giant commercial. Both games have ups and downs. Teall me this isn't looking real.

You can't say those are bullshots because the game looks exactly like that. From the looks of it Turn 10 got the Top Gear test Track right.

No I'm not a Fan boy of Forza , I just don't if you guys know that there is a new Forza coming out that looks potentially or better than GT5.

 

[JDMKING13]

Looking 100% real is the target, obviously that only can be achieved with tons of processing power. You are not going to see "Avatar" quality in real time into the next years but actually you have games that get more close to that than others.


Videogames are not too different than movies. I don't see the problem playing a pretty simulator with a more vibrant color style than a sim with a bland amateur camera style. Is not that in real life don't exist vibrant colors or sunny days.. like I said that is not the main problem in a cartoonish looking game, there are a lot of factors, even scales, texture design, background integration, animations, modeling details, etc..

This for example:

Yea you can see the difference alot in those two videos

 

[Da-Bomber]

Art style? When trying to recreate real life, there should only be one art style: Real life.

Well that's not going to work as real life isn't possible yet so to make the game more appealing they use art style. Don't know why you are arguing with me over something every game has.

 

[JDMKING13]

Maserati GranTurismo S

This looks real and its photoshop but just as a foundation GT5 looks amazing and real. I have seen the best photo galleries for FM3 and some guys can bring the greatness out off Forza with those capture cards however I have seen none that look real like some GT5 photos.

 

[t.o.]

This looks real and its photoshop but just as a foundation GT5 looks amazing and real. I have seen the best photo galleries for FM3 and some guys can bring the greatness out off Forza with those capture cards however I have seen none that look real like some GT5 photos.

Then you haven't looked hard enough.

 

[HBK]

Teall me this isn't looking real.

It's not.

The picture is nice but it is VERY obvious that it comes from a video game.

 

[JDMKING13]

Then you haven't looked hard enough.

Pleae show me I have looked at many galleries TVR and chromatic9's are the most impressive to me, but even in their photos I have not seen one that fools me. I have also seen TVR GT5 photos and some other great photo takers and they have some in there that I had to look at a couple times to make sure its GT5.

@ HBK exactly

 

[t.o.]

Pleae show me I have looked at many galleries TVR and chromatic9's are the most impressive to me, but even in their photos i have not seen a one that fools me. I have also seen TVR GT5 photos and some other great photo takers and they have some in there that i have to look at a couple times to make sure its GT5.

@ HBK exactly

Didn't have to look hard or long at all. And this is just quick searching.

 

[JDMKING13]

Nice pictures T.O. very nice but not realistic photos to me, If those look realistic to you I respect that not IMO though. I cant explain it but i can still see the game in those pics, they are very nice pictures though.