FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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saidur_ali
The poor image comparison is just a point being made, someone using the worst GT5 image they can find comparing it to the best FM image they can find.
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It's not looking for the worst image possible for comparisons. Many of the ones I've taken in GT5 weren't done to intentionally show the faults of standards. You only need to do A/Bspec Pro Lupo race and drive by the AI to see how awefully jagged the rear hatch is and that's while in motion. Even standing still you see it stick out and taking a pic no matter which way will show off these massively jagged edges. Why do a Lupo race rather than an event that could taylor towards a nice premium?
 
bullet360
I couldnt agree more, so many forza/gt comparisons have either been "debunked" or re compared. Not really helping the image of forza's fanbase when they (fm fans) create almost unethical comparisons..

I mean, not only were they comparing standards on (obviously) low quality generated couses (Mt Aso) to some of fm3's nicest models and scenery, but they also made it seem quite a challenge to get the same camera angles in 2 different games. And yes there are more and better (fair) comparisons that are not only out there and around, but why is it that the really bad ones are always the ones that appear the most? We only support facts that are stated to support (or balance) the level of competition.
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Unfortunately, the GT fanbase do the same thing. It's the nature of the beast on the internet.
 
I'd say it's entirely Sony's fault for feeling pure numbers were the way to take the franchise when they meant such a compromise for a series that's always pushed its graphical fidelity as hard as its driving model.
 
Eh. Sony sure is to blame for some of the stuff that happened to GT5. But there are so many awkward (or, frankly, horrible) design decisions that I think that PD should start to rethink their way of approachings games in general.

Some of the decisions make sense, in that they artificially draw the game out (like the paint chips or the leveling system, for example). It seems like they're purely there to slow the player's progression through the career mode to make it appear to be more than it actually is.

However, at the same time, I can't really think of these things as good decisions. There's so much awkward stuff in GT5 that can't be attributed to hardware limitations or a lack of time. That's what has me worried about the franchise as a whole. No matter how much money, time or computing power PD will have at their disposable, that won't stop them from including paint chips instead of a colour palette, for example.

Hence, I wouldn't put all the blame on Sony. Some, sure. But, PD should really get someone to remind them of how to design a game...
 
Morsolo
On that note, something that really annoys me is, why do racing games continuously ignore Australia? We have some of the deepest racing history in the world, along with probably the most devoted and passionate fans in the world. Our racing was "mans racing", where someone would drive their kids to the track, kick them out and ruin there car with a bunch of other blokes around Mount Panorama. Forza scores massive points for at least including V8 Supercars. Gran Turismo loses all credibility here because of their 3 Australian cars that were all lame copy-pastes from GT4 (and GT3 in the case of the AU Falcon).
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I'll add to this, that the Sedona track (fantasy track located in Arizona) was designed after Calder Park raceway, located in Australia. Both feature a high speed oval (Thunderdome), a road course outside the stadium area connected to the oval, and a drag strip all integrated into one stretch of asphalt. In the game's opening, you see the Australian Supercars racing at Sedona.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calder_Park_Raceway
 
Morsolo
On that note, something that really annoys me is, why do racing games continuously ignore Australia? We have some of the deepest racing history in the world, along with probably the most devoted and passionate fans in the world. Our racing was "mans racing", where someone would drive their kids to the track, kick them out and ruin there car with a bunch of other blokes around Mount Panorama. Forza scores massive points for at least including V8 Supercars. Gran Turismo loses all credibility here because of their 3 Australian cars that were all lame copy-pastes from GT4 (and GT3 in the case of the AU Falcon).
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Just a side note, I am here in the States, and I have to say, I LOVE watching the V8 Supercars. I got hooked about 10 minutes into the Race 1 of 2011. I am up to race 16, and already have my top 3 favorite drivers! Russell Ingall, Jaime Whincup, and Shane Van Gisbergen.

Thats one of the main reasons I got FM3. I saw the cars in there!

The nice thing about it, is in 2013 the Supercars will be coming to Austin, TX. I am about 45mins away from the new track. I am buying tickets as soon as they are on sale.
 
BusierDonkey
I'll add to this, that the Sedona track (fantasy track located in Arizona) was designed after Calder Park raceway, located in Australia. Both feature a high speed oval (Thunderdome), a road course outside the stadium area connected to the oval, and a drag strip all integrated into one stretch of asphalt. In the game's opening, you see the Australian Supercars racing at Sedona.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calder_Park_Raceway
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I never noticed the similarities, interesting.

Also, on a side note I live extremely close to the Calder lol.
 
BusierDonkey
I'll add to this, that the Sedona track (fantasy track located in Arizona) was designed after Calder Park raceway, located in Australia. Both feature a high speed oval (Thunderdome), a road course outside the stadium area connected to the oval, and a drag strip all integrated into one stretch of asphalt. In the game's opening, you see the Australian Supercars racing at Sedona.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calder_Park_Raceway
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Ohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygod.

I live... Erm, 2 miles from the Thunderdome. I can see it from my house and every Friday night I can hear the drag races. This makes me love Forza a million times more!

(Fun fact, two of the main roads out the front are the Calder Park Highway and Calder Park Drive.)

FyreandIce
I never noticed the similarities, interesting.

Also, on a side note I live extremely close to the Calder lol.
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Erm, haha, where do you live? I'm in Sydenham. (PM me if ya want)
 
Morsolo
Ohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygod.

I live... Erm, 2 miles from the Thunderdome. I can see it from my house and every Friday night I can hear the drag races. This makes me love Forza a million times more!

(Fun fact, two of the main roads out the front are the Calder Park Highway and Calder Park Drive.)



Erm, haha, where do you live? I'm in Sydenham. (PM me if ya want)
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Out near Sunbury and Calder Park Drive has been half fixed!
 
Luminis
Eh. Sony sure is to blame for some of the stuff that happened to GT5. But there are so many awkward (or, frankly, horrible) design decisions that I think that PD should start to rethink their way of approachings games in general.

Some of the decisions make sense, in that they artificially draw the game out (like the paint chips or the leveling system, for example). It seems like they're purely there to slow the player's progression through the career mode to make it appear to be more than it actually is.

However, at the same time, I can't really think of these things as good decisions. There's so much awkward stuff in GT5 that can't be attributed to hardware limitations or a lack of time. That's what has me worried about the franchise as a whole. No matter how much money, time or computing power PD will have at their disposable, that won't stop them from including paint chips instead of a colour palette, for example.

Hence, I wouldn't put all the blame on Sony. Some, sure. But, PD should really get someone to remind them of how to design a game...
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Sony is partly to blame for for not having any major in put on the game design or release window. Kaz almost seemed arrogant stating the cars take 6 months to models. That's not a good thing. T10 seems to be able to pump out 220+ cars a year with outsourcing with PD at only 75 . PD need new leadership, foreign leadership.....
 
LaBounti
Sony is partly to blame for for not having any major in put on the game design or release window. Kaz almost seemed arrogant stating the cars take 6 months to models. That's not a good thing. T10 seems to be able to pump out 220+ cars a year with outsourcing with PD at only 75 . PD need new leadership, foreign leadership.....
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Well, I guess they just left PD alone because they build GT up to what it is today. It's because of them that the franchise does so well, after all.

And I agree with you, taking so long to model a car is nothing to be proud of, in my opinion, and I also agree that new leadership should at least be considered. If only to make Kazunori aware of what's at stake.

I don't know whether foreign leadership would be necessary, though. There are enough Japanese game studios doing quite well, without the antics of PD. What's more important, in my opinion, is someone that speaks proper English so that they can at least tell the fanss what's going on...
 
LaBounti
Sony is partly to blame for for not having any major in put on the game design or release window. Kaz almost seemed arrogant stating the cars take 6 months to models. That's not a good thing. T10 seems to be able to pump out 220+ cars a year with outsourcing with PD at only 75 . PD need new leadership, foreign leadership.....
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To be honest while GT releases sell in the numbers they do Sony seem happy to leave PD alone (which is not always the best idea at all). Combine that with Kaz sitting on the Sony board and I fear its going to take something major to happen before we see any change at all.


Scaff
 
Luminis
Well, I guess they just left PD alone because they build GT up to what it is today. It's because of them that the franchise does so well, after all.

And I agree with you, taking so long to model a car is nothing to be proud of, in my opinion, and I also agree that new leadership should at least be considered. If only to make Kazunori aware of what's at stake.

I don't know whether foreign leadership would be necessary, though. There are enough Japanese game studios doing quite well, without the antics of PD. What's more important, in my opinion, is someone that speaks proper English so that they can at least tell the fanss what's going on...
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That's the thing that I'm unhappy with. Better relations with the fans who enjoy the game on a global scale, not some international PR guy. Keeping us in the dark about the game for years is just not good. Why did it take so long for them to explain standard car models and the inclusion to inflate the car list. The 800 high detailed cars dream was probably the biggest let down that could have been avoided. That 2010 TGS weather video from last year was a perfect example, there was no clarity on how it works and if it was global or if it was controllable. Too much lost in translation.

FM4 was revealed at E3 and they held little back. We know that they have a fixed lighting for all environments to show off their global reflection system. We know there will be time of day versions of tracks like Shift 2(Done well). We know these these things because he reaches out to the core racing fans and keeps no secrets :).
 
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LaBounti
Keeping us in the dark about the game for years is just not good.
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Yup. What annoyed me to no end was the fact that most of what little they said was so ambiguous that it still was no clear answer to the point PD (seemingly) meant to adress. In fact, some of what was said by Kazunori raised more questions than it answered.

It's not just that they didn't try to communicate, but that they couldn't do so properly even when they wanted to. For a massive, internationaal company like Sony, that's a pretty big no-go, in my opinion. And I can't think of one good reason as to why things wen't that way, to be quite honest.
 
Luminis
To be perfectly honest, I think even Shift 2 did that, with its 170 or so cars.
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Doing more with less, even he career mode has more creatrivity and the track list is arguably one of the best for any sim racer. That's the deepest car list of any EA racing game including Sports car GT.

I wont miss night racing, I had to turn the suggested line on and Shift 2's line can easily send you into a wall.
 
tecknical
imo Forza's car list just plain craps on GT5's car list.
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GT5 has more cars, Forza 4 has more cars you actually want to drive(and that's just the ones confirmed so far:tup:).

I agree with Luminis about S2 as well, even without the DLC it has a great car list.
 
LaBounti
Doing more with less, even he career mode has more creatrivity and the track list is arguably one of the best for any sim racer. That's the deepest car list of any EA racing game including Sports car GT.

I wont miss night racing, I had to turn the suggested line on and Shift 2's line can easily send you into a wall.
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Totally agree. I dont mind at ALL going back and redoing all the races just because they are actually good. Track list bar none the best. Car list, small, but had all the ones I wanted. Legends DLC, just added to the mix.

Night racing with no line, AFTER rear ending a car and damaging your headlights, on Nords = pure evil.

Even though it could be really hard, I enjoyed the night racing. I really hope they have it in FM4. Not only have it, but do it great like S2, with the awesome lighting.
 
I've got to agree with LaBounti and Vaxxtx, Shift 2's track list certainly is something to behold. The only thing I could ever complain about is the widened Nordschleife and that's it. The car list is a perfect example of quality over quantity.

FM4's car list seems to strike a good balance between quality and quantity, though.
 
Yeah, every single car in S2U garage is a masterpiece and essential to drive. Considering the cockpit of all cars is best on the market and even FM4 isn't better it is incredible. And actually if you take out such rubbish cars like Toyota Prius from Premium cars GT 5 is gonna have even less amount of good cars of current gen quality.
 
The thing with S2's car list was that basically every car could be race modded - GT5 counted these as individual cars. Had S2 done so, it would've had more cars than GT5 had premium cars.
 
Basically, yes, that's what I thought as well... It's just about how you coun't them. I was quite suprised that EA didn't insist on counting the "Works" cars as individual cars.
 
Justin
GT5 has more cars, Forza 4 has more cars you actually want to drive(and that's just the ones confirmed so far:tup:).
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Not always true. Personally in such games I prefer driving "real world" cars to be enhanced to sports car levels with tuning, than race cars or supercars. Even though I most probably won't buy an X360 (and a wheel/pedal set just for it, since I've already got a one), I hope Forza 4 will include more of those. In my view it would gain much more appeal.
 
Uhm, excuse me, but you make it sound like Forza's car list consists of 50% high performance super cars and 50% of others. Forza has quite a lot of low- and medium performance cars. If my memory serves, the bulk of the cars is scattered across D, C and B class.

What Forza doesn't have, though, is a car list that consists of 50% Kei Cars and 25% mid-range stuff, with the remaining 25% being taken up largely by race cars. I don't know why it should be needed, though.
 
Luminis
Uhm, excuse me, but you make it sound like Forza's car list consists of 50% high performance super cars and 50% of others. Forza has quite a lot of low- and medium performance cars. If my memory serves, the bulk of the cars is scattered across D, C and B class.
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Actually, Forza 3 car list is pretty much evenly spread out over all classes. You have about as much F cars than you have like B cars or R1 cars. You may have a slight bias towards the "center" (C-B-A), but that's about it.

And yeah, that's one thing which have to be commended.
 
You're right, it's a very well balanced car list, but I think the slight bias towards the center of the performance scale was still somewhat noticible - not that thatt's a bad thing. After all, there are far more cars produced in that range than there are super cars, I think.
 

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