FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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If you want to know what your typical casual player wants, take a look at NFS titles. That franchise caters basically solely to casual players.
 
I am a bit biased, but I think PGR is a great alternative to the "sim" that GT/Forza portray to be.
 
Regarding the car lists, it's all a matter of personal taste. I prefer sportier cars, race cars, etc but I also love taking 'normal' cars and building them to be a bit competitive. I also don't mind taking a 'normal' car stock/mostly stock on any given track.

A gripe I have with this split in standard vs premium is the fact that the POS Prius (yes... I can not STAND the Prius) got premium treatment yet the most iconic car in recent years, the Bugatti Veyron, is a standard... and the eye soar is the fact that the Veyron was first introduced AFTER GT4 so why is it even a standard to begin with?
Kei cars are OK with me but I'd rather not use them. There is way too big of an emphasis in Kei cars in GT games. I know, different strokes for different folks but you are racing and Kei cars don't necessarily cross my mind when racing. And neither does the H1 Hummer (here's looking at you Forza4)
 
Luminis
If you want to know what your typical casual player wants, take a look at NFS titles. That franchise caters basically solely to casual players.
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Tell me about it. First time I was at my friend's new place after his newborn came home... he popped in Shift 1 and gave me the controller. He had almost every assist on. I looked at him and said 'dude I like a challenge and I like realism'

After switching assists off he thought no way would I be able to drive, and I did quite well my first go. He has GT5 and says it's 'too hard for him'.
I'm a big believer in the fact that when making a game more realistic, the less people will want it. It's why outside of GT and Forza (because technically they can be played like an arcade game), the racing genre that dominates is arcade.
 
cuco33
It's why outside of GT and Forza (because technically they can be played like an arcade game), the racing genre that dominates is arcade.
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Exactly, and I'm a firm believer that GT and FM do well because they can be turned into arcade games at the flick of a switch.

However, games like NFS Hot Pursuit and The Run are what the casual crowd (appearently) likes. They wouldn't sell well if they didn't - and those games are absolutely not focused on daily drivers.
 
cuco33
A gripe I have with this split in standard vs premium is the fact that the POS Prius (yes... I can not STAND the Prius) got premium treatment yet the most iconic car in recent years, the Bugatti Veyron, is a standard... and the eye soar is the fact that the Veyron was first introduced AFTER GT4 so why is it even a standard to begin with?
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GT PSP import (it also explain why it's one of the less ugly standards, it was created way later than GT4 models).

PS : Oh man do I hate those "casual" debates :dunce:

"Casual" means freakin' nothing. And I won't even comment on the term "normal".

People minds are seriously ****ed up if they think there is a "normality" in this world.

Damn, I said I wouldn't comment on it :grumpy:
 
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The Veyron is an icon and new to the series. If PD were working on GT5 all this time, or even had plans as to what their premiums would be, why not make it a premium? I mean a Toyota freakin Prius is a premium but not the (at the time, was surpassed by the Veyron Super Sport leaped that as well) fastest production based car in the world. EVERYONE knows what a Veyron is. The interior in my eyes is gorgeous and could have looked great if premium. It's a car most would want to take to those photo travels... NOT a freaking Prius. And for some reason PD made it drive like total crap in GT5 yet it's a fast car around even the TG track (at one point it was fastest on their TG track leaderboard). But hey... Got that Prius!! :inserts facepalm:
 
Luminis
Because it's not Japanese.
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lol true... even so, I'd have been fine with getting a basic color interior for it (and I'm not the biggest cockpit driver). The Veyron you could build in various colors and materials, including the interior. They don't need to model every color, every trim, every material. Just toss us 1 like a regulary black and call it a day. Buy in PD's eyes Prius > Veyron and that... is freaking blasphemy. Who wants to take a Prius to a photo travel location for photos anyways?!
 
G.T.Ace
The Furai (which I find way more important than the Veyron) is Japanese and still just a Standard car.
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Another example, and it's not the only one. I don't get how they put racing series where all the cars are standards and have some really gorgeous premium examples that could easily have been used for those.

It might be just me or the fact that I absolutely loathe the Prius to the Nth degree.
 
G.T.Ace
The Furai (which I find way more important than the Veyron) is Japanese and still just a Standard car.
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I doubt that the Furai is as much of an icon (or as well known) as the Veyron. In fact, I doubt that it's anywhere in the same league, popularity wise.

But anyways, I think it was obvious that my comment wasn't to be taken 100% seriously. Although, I still think there's some truth to it.

cuco33
It might be just me or the fact that I absolutely loathe the Prius to the Nth degree.
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Well, I'm the same. The Prius is the epitome of the kind of car that, in my opinion, has no place in a racing game. A Suzuki Cappuchino, sure. But a Prius, which wa solely build to be green and get good MPG? :indiff:
 
The Prius is alright in my opinion, because it's the iconic hybrid car and even GT2 already had one. Gran Turismo is all about car history and the Prius is an important part of it, if you like it or not. Not to mention that it's some sort of advertisement for Toyota and that GT5 simulates the behavior of the Hybrid engine(s).

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I doubt that the Furai is as much of an icon (or as well known) as the Veyron. In fact, I doubt that it's anywhere in the same league, popularity wise.
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True, but it nullifies the "it's not Japanese" argument and I, personally, couldn't care less about the 1001 HP New Beetle from Bugatti.
 
Not to sidetrack it more but one/two of the reasons why I hate the Prius is that if people wanted good fuel economy, diesels have been doing what the Prius does for almost 2 decades. Also, the full lifespan of the Prius, meaning building it, consumer usage, and disposing it, was already identified as being dirtier than an H1 Hummer. Green my ass!

Just wait a few years when leases are up and people buy something new. Want a true hybrid? Lithium Ion + diesel is estimated to get you over 100mpg but of course... the oil companies don't want that ;)

It's a heavy slow piece of crap and yes... I've driven one (coworker was visiting our site and had it as a rental. He too loathed the car and I only drove it at lunch time once)

Sorry for the side track. :indiff:
 
G.T.Ace
The Prius is alright in my opinion, because it's the iconic hybrid car and even GT2 already had one. Gran Turismo is all about car history and the Prius is an important part of it, if you like it or not. Not to mention that it's some sort of advertisement for Toyota and that GT5 simulates the behavior of the Hybrid engine(s).
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The thing for me is, the whole idea of the Prius is basically opposed to that of racing cars. Foollowing the Prius' philosophy, that's just wasted fuel.

It's fine to include it for the sake of automotive history, if that's what a game tries to do. Whether one likes that kind of attempt for a game is a whole different topic, though. I guess one could discuss that in-depth all by itself.

G.T.Ace
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True, but it nullifies the "it's not Japanese" argument and I, personally, couldn't care less about the 1001 HP New Beetle from Bugatti.
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't like the Veyron myself, as I still consider it to be an ugly boat, but as far as car history goes, I find it to be more important than most recent cars, including the Prius or the Furai.

And I have a distinct feeling that a Japanese equivalent of the Veyron would've been premium.
cuco33
Not to sidetrack it more but one/two of the reasons why I hate the Prius is that if people wanted good fuel economy, diesels have been doing what the Prius does for almost 2 decades. Also, the full lifespan of the Prius, meaning building it, consumer usage, and disposing it, was already identified as being dirtier than an H1 Hummer. Green my ass!
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That's why I dislike hybrids and ellectric cars in general. They're pseudo-green, at best. And people buy the crap about them being soooo good for the environment...
 
I'm not a fan of it myself, just saying it has its place in GT.

Something I realised just a couple of days ago by the way, the Benz Patent Motorwagen, the Motorcarriage, the Model T and the Auto Union Typ C Streamliner were cut completely from the game, I still hope they'll release Premium versions from these cars as DLC. Especially the Auto Union would be a fantastic addition to the game, just imagine the cockpit. <3

Anyway, I just think these cars are, or were, what make Gran Turismo so unique.
 
One thing I'm hoping that is in FM4 is when you upgrade the exhaust they actually show the upgrade, and change the sound of the car. I really like that In GT5. With FM4 new lighting I think that would be a nice feature. I hate having a high horsepower car with the stock exhaust.




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2006 Ford GT
 
G.T.Ace
Anyway, I just think these cars are, or were, what make Gran Turismo so unique.
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Yeah, it's somewhat nice to have a game that includes those cars for the sake of history and quirkyness. But, to be honest, it's okay for me if it's the only game that does so ;)
 
jabofu
I dont know how accurate VGChartz.com is, but I had a laugh comparing some sales figures.

GT5 6.43 million
FM 3 4.91 million
Shift 2 0.52 million

Their "most realistic racing game", that is just poor.
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But for a series with a not so solid first entry, they did pretty good.

And Shift 2 done a lot of things right, it is very easy to tweak things and make a very good sim out of it, it also is the only title available on PC, and on PC the detail and feel is very close to a proper sim title, just much better thought out gameplay wise.

They have great car and track selection, good race variety, best AI on the market, good damage, and a very solid physics engine (dumbed down in parameters as it is, everything makes sense and nothing was fudged.)

If they are serious about it and if they has the resources, don't discount Shift being one of the top runners among FM and GT.
 
More importantly, half a million isn't that bad, but I think I get his point - if EA things that exlusive rights to Porsche will make that gap up, they're sorely mistaken.

But I agree, Shift 2 did a lot of things right. Sound, AI and track selection in particular.
 
Played the first Shift and I couldn't gel with the controls / physics.

It seemed ok but structurally inferior to GT / Forza. I wouldnt even think about buying Shift/Shift 2 even at discounted price !

I'm sorry but I will never hold it on the same high stead as Forza / GT.
 
barryl85
I'm sorry but I will never hold it on the same high stead as Forza / GT.
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Rightfully so, in my opinion. I liked Shift 2 a lot, and in a few areas, it even excelled FM and GT, but I still view it as the inferior game. Well, at least inferior to FM3, that is. Objectively speaking, I'd rate GT5 higher than Shift 2, but personally, I preffered the latter.
 
FyreandIce
Out near Sunbury and Calder Park Drive has been half fixed!
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Ah, so you're on the other side :) and "half" is right. :sly:

Anywho, I thought I'd weigh in now that I've got my foot in both camps. I completely agree that Forza's car list is more "accessible", Forza has a wider range of cars (at good quality).

GT5 is, what? 60% Standards; and of that 60%, only about 30% look bearable; and cancelling out the 700 versions of "Skyline", there is probably around the same amount of cars as Forza, just not as well spread.

However, I do see the appeal of Kaz's initial view of Gran Turismo to just "drive your every day car, in a game"... But frankly, that wears off pretty quickly... I don't go fork out $400 for a game and console to drive my '92 Honda Accord around all day, I could just - I dunno - drive my '92 Honda Accord around all day? That $400 saving would get me a fair amount of petrol; and I hear the physics in real life are pretty accurate; plus my car comes with a seat, steering wheel and everything! and it's a premium!

Whilst the range of "popular, fast/sports cars" is fairly equal between Forza and GT. I'm finding Forza's style and physics a bit more "fun" than GT's... GT feels "slow", whilst Forza gives you more of a sense of speed.

Again, iterating my previous post, I am not saying Forza is less of a "driving simulator" than GT, because they're both not really simulators at all.

All in all, I'm finding Forza more enjoyable than GT at the moment, but still undecided as to whether one is "better", yet.
 
Morsolo
GT5 is, what? 60% Standards
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Roughly 80%

Morsolo
I don't go fork out $400 for a game and console to drive my '92 Honda Accord around all day, I could just - I dunno - drive my '92 Honda Accord around all day?
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ThatÄs the point most people make when they came over to play Forza. "Why go for what I have when I drove the real thing on my way here?"
 
I think it defeats the purpose of a video game when one uses the term "Why would I drive what I have in a game when I have the real thing?" I had both a 2004 Mazda 3 fully loaded and a 2005 CTS-V in 2008. I'm pretty sure the most educated and intelligent safe driver isn't going to go 100mph in any road car, even for fun. I was that guy for the most part. I was 29 and had too much power under my foot. In the game I could drive fast on race tracks, in real life I had no desire to race my expensive fun mobile investment. Ad avoidable wear, risk accidents and kill my already high insurance for 2 cars and a motorcycle.

Why play fighting games if you can just go fight for real? Maybe someone under aged loves civics and wants to drive them. Thats the big picture some are over looking. Just ignore the cars you do not like and let those who do desire them enjoy them. I had no desire to use the Mazda 3 in any game but I'm not going say it shouldn't be there.

But that's just me...
 
LaBounti
Just ignore the cars you do not like and let those who do desire them enjoy them.
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Exactly, and that's why I'm saying that an even distribution of the cars is important. GT5 focuses pretty heavily on the lower end of the scale, which I think it shouldn't.

I'm not ssaying that daily drivers shouldn't be in a game. All I'm saying is that there's no reason to focus more on daily drivers than on sports cars or super cars. And that most people I know are not going for their daily driver first. That's usually an afterthought at best.
 
Luminis
Exactly, and that's why I'm saying that an even distribution of the cars is important. GT5 focuses pretty heavily on the lower end of the scale, which I think it shouldn't.

I'm not ssaying that daily drivers shouldn't be in a game. All I'm saying is that there's no reason to focus more on daily drivers than on sports cars or super cars. And that most people I know are not going for their daily driver first. That's usually an afterthought at best.
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At this point I'm convinced PD has no focus on car types anymore. FM seems to try to stretch the car types but not over saturate it. It gave us the Mito, The Feista. Other low end cars to modify with body kits and livery to enhance the appearance and engine swaps to add some extra life to them. That made them fun little cars. None of that fun was available to the GT5 cars. I feel FM is beating GT at its own game in terms of low end cars and what you can do with them by being able to remove the daily driver dullness.
 

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