FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[bullet360]

They could have a million sites, some people will never admit their game got bested.

Well it depends on "who" plays "what" game and believes what "bested" means to that certain individual... And unfortunately, sad but true.

 

[Akira AC]

Most of the Forza players in this section play both games. I think that makes for better discussion since there is less biased opinions that way.

I would believe that, but sadly most of this discussion is based over the bias of being discussed in this section instead of the GT section.

And, the discussion here tents to be biased, favouring FM and it doesn't even explore the FM flaws(specially FM3 flaws), apart from that, any discussion towards content is shifted over the whole STvsPR issue, disregarding the existence of more tracks and gameplay conditions, which is different from discussing only the cars featured in each game.

And there is also a reason of why the content featured in GT and not in FM is never discussed, the reason is bias, as simple as that.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

Someone should make a list of all FM flaws.

Also, Akira where did you get your AC avatar?
It's full of win

 

[zr1chris]

I would believe that, but sadly most of this discussion is based over the bias of being discussed in this section instead of the GT section.

But this is a GT site. Forza is just one section of the forums. This entire site is based on Gran Turismo not Forza. Most of the people if not all came here for GT talk first and then moved over to other sections of the forums such as this one.

 

[bullet360]

I would believe that, but sadly most of this discussion is based over the bias of being discussed in this section instead of the GT section.

And, the discussion here tents to be biased, favouring FM and it doesn't even explore the FM flaws(specially FM3 flaws), apart from that, any discussion towards content is shifted over the whole STvsPR issue, disregarding the existence of more tracks and gameplay conditions, which is different from discussing only the cars featured in each game.

And there is also a reason of why the content featured in GT and not in FM is never discussed, the reason is bias, as simple as that.

What gives the forza fanbase the beliefs that gt players are only willing to play that series of racing... You all act as if we are too ignorant to enjoy and perhaps like other racing games more than the GT series. Sure we WILL get the fanboy here and there, but you have to be pretty dense to believe that this threads arguement is fair and even. I have spent the same, if not more time on the relases of nfs releases (nfs underground, underground 2, most wanted, pro street, carbon etc) within the time frame of gt's game releases (gt3, gt4, and gt5), and have enjoyed the forza series to an extent to WANT to buy a wheel, xbox and forza.

 

[Akira AC]

Someone should make a list of all FM flaws.

Also, Akira where did you get your AC avatar?
It's full of win

I made it myself, If you want one tell me the SQ logo I'll make it for you(since I'm kind of bored right now)

But this is a GT site. Forza is just one section of the forums. This entire site is based on Gran Turismo not Forza. Most of the people if not all came here for GT talk first and then moved over to other sections of the forums such as this one.

True, but it is still in an isolated location from the members who regularly play GT series. Besides, most people who discuss FM over here are here because the Forza forums are way too restrictive with the content of their discussions.

What gives the forza fanbase the beliefs that gt players are only willing to play that series of racing... You all act as if we are too ignorant to enjoy and perhaps like other racing games more than the GT series. Sure we WILL get the fanboy here and there, but you have to be pretty dense to believe that this threads arguement is fair and even. I have spent the same, if not more time on the relases of nfs releases (nfs underground, underground 2, most wanted, pro street, carbon etc) within the time frame of gt's game releases (gt3, gt4, and gt5), and have enjoyed the forza series to an extent to WANT to buy a wheel, xbox and forza.

That absolutely not true, all I'm saying is that the discussion under bias and often overlooks flaws and critical points that should be addressed for Forza(Forza 3 to be precise), FM3 is never compared to its predecessors while GT5 is, and the predecessor's content shown in FM1 and FM2(which are games that I really like) is never compared to nowadays content, because of my biased opinion towards FM3, DLC model overlooking positions and other reasons often related with bias.

 

[zr1chris]

I made it myself, If you want one tell me the SQ logo I'll make it for you(since I'm kind of bored right now)

True, but it is still in an isolated location from the members who regularly play GT series.

Almost everyone that enters this site plays or has played GT. Why else would people come to "GT" Planet.com? Thats most likely the first reason that at least 95% of the people that visit this site are interested in when they first visit. You will get a much better balace of people who played both games in this section than if you put it in the GT section. The GT section will have allot more people who don't play Forza

 

[Akira AC]

Almost everyone that enters this site plays or has played GT. Why else would people come to "GT" Planet.com? Thats most likely the first reason that at least 95% of the people that visit this site are interested in when they first visit. You will get a much better balace of people who played both games in this section than if you put it in the GT section. The GT section will have allot more people who don't play Forza

You are missing the point, the fact that you play GT doesn't make you biased over that game, if that were true then this discussion should not take place, according to that logic.

 

[bullet360]

Almost everyone that enters this site plays or has played GT. Why else would people come to "GT" Planet.com? Thats most likely the first reason that at least 95% of the people that visit this site are interested in when they first visit. You will get a much better balace of people who played both games in this section than if you put it in the GT section. The GT section will have allot more people who don't play Forza

Well seeing this is in the FM section of threads upon GTP, I was just using that as an example of how things have been stated. I agree, the ones that have not played forza should reserve their right to post if the thread does get brought up over there. Thats all im trying to say.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well seeing this is in the FM section of threads upon GTP, I was just using that as an example of how things have been stated. I agree, the ones that have not played forza should reserve their right to post if the thread does get brought up over there. Thats all im trying to say.

This topic has been brought up in the GT section. Ad nauseum. As you can imagine, it never ended well. As Chris mentioned - there's a good chunk of players over there who haven't played Forza. Mix this with the average mindset of needing to pick a side, dash liberally with plenty of "X game sucks/rules" comments, sprinkle with petty insults in place of discussions, and heat with the ensuing flame-wars.

There's nothing wrong with preferences (heck, we all have them), but I imagine Scaff's intentions with creating this thread here, as opposed to yet another in the GT section, is that by and large, this thread has progressed with solid debates, and that there's far less of a chance that members will stumble in with an axe to grind over any particular franchise.

Well, scratch that... we all aren't happy with EA over the Porsche exclusivity

 

[zr1chris]

You are missing the point, the fact that you play GT doesn't make you biased over that game.

Exactly my point. You will find allot more people in this section that play (or played) both games than if you put it in a GT forum on a GT site.

 

[Akira AC]

Exactly my point. You will find allot more people in this section that play (or played) both games than if you put it in a GT forum on a GT site.

Exactly, but you are missing again the point, playing both games doesn't make you unbiased, that my point.

The Porsche thing is kind of irrelevant for me, sure you miss the 962 and the 550 spyder but you get Rufs, which I like, a lot, also new different cars, which is one of the pluses from FM.

And is nice to see that T10 withdraw the compensation system, I just hope that it wont affect online races, players with "bonus grip disguised as assists" will have an unfair advantage against the ones who will not use it(like me), I just expect a host list type instead of the race-making system, because it has huge flaws.

 

[tribolik]

Exactly, but you are missing again the point, playing both games doesn't make you unbiased, that my point.

The Porsche thing is kind of irrelevant for me, sure you miss the 962 and the 550 spyder but you get Rufs, which I like, a lot, also new different cars, which is one of the pluses from FM.

And is nice to see that T10 withdraw the compensation system, I just hope that it wont affect online races, players with "bonus grip disguised as assists" will have an unfair advantage against the ones who will not use it(like me), I just expect a host list type instead of the race-making system, because it has huge flaws.

No it doesnt, it makes you see the faults of both and the strong points of both... and the physics from what I could read are the only advantage GT5 has over Forza and that probably will change with FM4...

I havent played Forza (so according to someone here I shouldnt even be posting) but from what Ive seen and read I want to play it more and more... and GT less and less... and Ive been a big GT fan since GT3

 

[zr1chris]

Exactly, but you are missing again the point, playing both games doesn't make you unbiased, that my point.

I understand that and I get your point but your missing mine. The point is, in the GT section your going to find much more biased people that have only played one game (especially in the GT section on a GT site) than you will among people that have played both. Bottom line is you can't tell me with all honesty that you think you will get a better none biased discussion in the GT section than you will here. Remember this discussion started because you suggested that this topic (GT vs Forza) should be posted in the GT section. I just don't think that's such a good idea and SlipZtrEm's past experience proves my point.

 

[cuco33]

I'm sure there will be options online before entering the race. It would be as easy as having the host select the assists and options or picking what you want as specified in the hopper lobbies menu. It's like that now

 

[bullet360]

This topic has been brought up in the GT section. Ad nauseum. As you can imagine, it never ended well. As Chris mentioned - there's a good chunk of players over there who haven't played Forza. Mix this with the average mindset of needing to pick a side, dash liberally with plenty of "X game sucks/rules" comments, sprinkle with petty insults in place of discussions, and heat with the ensuing flame-wars.

There's nothing wrong with preferences (heck, we all have them), but I imagine Scaff's intentions with creating this thread here, as opposed to yet another in the GT section, is that by and large, this thread has progressed with solid debates, and that there's far less of a chance that members will stumble in with an axe to grind over any particular franchise.

Well, scratch that... we all aren't happy with EA over the Porsche exclusivity

Makes me wonder why gt never had porsche... Be glad forza has it in previous releases

 

[bullet360]

I havent played Forza (so according to someone here I shouldnt even be posting) but from what Ive seen and read I want to play it more and more... and GT less and less... and Ive been a big GT fan since GT3

I wasnt meaning to exempt posts indefinetly, im just saying with the mindset that so many have of "flopza inferiority". THOSE individuals should refrain from posting, not the ones with open minds

 

[Akira AC]

I understand that and I get your point but your missing mine. The point is, in the GT section your going to find much more biased people that have only played one game (especially in the GT section on a GT site) than you will among people that have played both. Bottom line is you can't tell me with all honesty that you think you will get a better none biased discussion in the GT section than you will here. Remember this discussion started because you suggested that this topic (GT vs Forza) should be posted in the GT section. I just don't think that's such a good idea.

I get you point, and that's exactly the situation, but it replaces GT for FM, that is all, having this section on the GT5 section will cause a famboyistical lolcaust of immense proportions, but criticism over FM series would exist, which is not the case in this section most of the time, specially when the conversation deviates into irrelevant FM-only conversation(which has happen plenty of times with the new FM4 features announcements and so forth).

There has been moments in which both games have been analysed by both perspectives, but then someone comes saying GT is the best because of poorly justified which causes a criticism over GT at the end, as it has happen over the GT5 section during last 10 months, the same can be said about the counter arguments against any criticisms towards FM3, this spoils the conversation that includes members who get somewhere. Analogically if there is a bias or opinions towards FM, the bias against FM will be consider more critical than the observations themselves(like my case for example).

I'm sure there will be options online before entering the race. It would be as easy as having the host select the assists and options or picking what you want as specified in the hopper lobbies menu. It's like that now

Yes I know, if the matchmaking system has special filters it will save the online in FM, lately the only decent racing you can get is over A section, R sections are filled with noobs and lower sections don't have too many players.

Either that or server list, otherwise I have to set my own races with people who I used to play with in FM2.

 

[zr1chris]

I get you point, and that's exactly the situation, but it replaces GT for FM, that is all, having this section on the GT5 section will cause a famboyistical lolcaust of immense proportions, but criticism over FM series would exist.

So you think we should have a thread full of "famboyistical lolcaust of immense proportions" just so there will be more criticism of Forza??

There has been some criticism of Forza here ( I have been on the GT side when it comes to physics and premium car and track models) and I think the reason you don't see more is because there simply isn't as much to criticize against Forza. It's simply much more balanced. There isn't as many high and lows as GT. T10 does everything in their game equally for the most part. GT has some unbelievably great things about it and then you have things like standard cars and an unstable frame rate that leaves you scratching your head wondering why. It just is what it is. T10 does a pretty remarkable job with a less powerful console.

 

[Akira AC]

True, but then stuff like the lack of content that GT has and FM doesn't have never comes into discussion, not only reduced to physics, it also includes the difference between the number of tracks on each game, features like track generator, Rally, differences between tire compound and modifications, also the weather changes and time changes which are recognized but never put as plus or relevant, just like the livery editor, there is also the photomode and the online system, I brought the discussion about the career both games which helped to analysed the flaws between both games and its career modes, the arcade options of each game was never discussed because of troll accusations. Neither is the damage model in a more critical extent, and the DLC model and car listing is never put in the table.

Those aspects are never discussed in this place, and almost everything reduces or is let towards the STvsPR issue, that is what doesn't allow a clear conversation about both games, which I believe should be consider but not overreacted while considering other stuff.

 

[zr1chris]

Nobody is holding you from discussing those things. If that's what you want to discuss then go for it. That's what this thread is here for.

 

[Bogie 19th]

akiraacecombat, if you have concerns over everything you mentioned, nobody is stopping you from bringing them up. Feel free, and knock yourself out.

However, the reason people have refrained from discussing stuff with you is because you continue to lie in many of your posts, and as you lose credibility, you lose replies.

 

[Akira AC]

Nobody is holding you from discussing those things. If that's what you want to discuss then go for it. That's what this thread is here for.

That's the thing, I want to, but then I get tagged as "troll", if you happen to come across what McLaren post earlier in this thread about my opinions then you will know what I'm talking about.

And I personally want to follow this discussion after the release of FM4(or when I get to play it), to get all things about both games updated.

Besides, the only lie I have told about GT5 is that it has wind physics, that's the only thing that McLaren found and he practically rub that in my face when I clearly state that was a misconception and never brought back that topic, besides he never corrected me or demonstrated why I'm wrong about the DLC model, other stuff like my conceptions about AV mode(which I'm still have) always are stated as factual and therefore lies, instead of being taken as opinions.

That's how it has worked around here for me, unfortunately.

 

[zr1chris]

Besides, the only lie I have told about GT5 is that it has wind physics, that's the only thing that McLaren found and he practically rub that in my face

Come on now. Who's fault is that?? What did you expect? If your going to post a lie then that's the sort of thing that's going to happen. If someone posted a lie about Forza to make it look better the same thing would have most likely happened. Just make sure you have your facts straight before you post (which pretty much goes for any thread not just this one) or let it be known that your not 100% sure of what your saying.

 

[Akira AC]

Come on now. Who's fault is that?? What did you expect? If your going to post a lie then that's the sort of thing that's going to happen. If someone posted a lie about Forza to make it look better the same thing would have most likely happened. Just make sure you have your facts straight before you post (which pretty much goes for any thread not just this one) or let it be known that your not 100% sure of what your saying.

Yeah, but such fault should not be used to cover the subsequent facts and opinions behind posts, that's the thing. You can correct someone from a lie or a misconception, but you cannot use that issue to overcome other topics that were discussed, as it happened, yeah I was corrected, but it was like 2-3 months before the discussion took place, and it wasn't even on topic, which had nothing to do with the discussion at all, and still was used to gave bias to my posts and therefore nullifying them. As it happens, people who studied both games and knew both games agreed with me, given my opinion with bias only caused people to go into the bias instead of the opinions, and that's how it has happen during the present time.

I don't find anything problematic with bias, my problem is that people usually goes after the bias, instead discussing the problem or topic at hand, ignoring the bias, that's the main problem that this discussion has, people here tent to believe that I like GT5 a lot, but I don't like that game at all, I also don't like FM3, the reason of this is because neither game does it right, and why would I point out the flaws the GT5 has when everyone posts them, doesn't make sense.

 

[Minty]

^It's best to just ignore those people.

If someone gives you a hard time over something like that, just admit it was a mistake, and then just ignore them when they try to bring it back up.

If you've made a mistake and apologized for it, there would be no reason for anyone to mention it again, and no reason for you to bother acknowledging anyone that does.

So if someone gets like that, and starts trying to derail the current topic of discussion by picking apart a mistake, ignore them and they won't succeed.



If you still feel some of your valid points were ignored, I see no harm in restating them.

 

[zr1chris]

^It's best to just ignore those people.

If someone gives you a hard time over something like that, just admit it was a mistake, and then just ignore them when they try to bring it back up.

If you've made a mistake and apologized for it, there would be no reason for anyone to mention it again, and no reason for you to bother acknowledging anyone that does.

Exactly.

Also, when you come out with a lie and state it as fact then you lose credibility as Bogie said. Then people are less willing to listen to what you have to say.

 

[stiorevo]

I like the graphics for FM4 but I still think the physics will not be the same, again. But we will wait and see. I like to say that GT is like a Ferrari and FM is like a Lambo. No matter how hard Lambo tries they just do not have the backing (F1) nor the heritage that Ferrari has. Not to take away from Lambo or FM at all. Also not to say that Lambo isn't a great company (or should I say Audi), it is just not a Ferrari. Then again I cannot wait to see what the Sesto Elemento is going to end up like. This is MO!

 

[Vaxxtx]

Eh, my ultimate gripe, about GT5 is two things.

1. Overhyped to death. After it was released I didnt get it till waaay later. I wasnt not excited. Everyone I knew from friends, to people that work at a game store said if you have a PS3 and NOT GT5 you are missing out. I was excited when I got it, and after a week I was still scratching my head wondering if I was missing something.

2. Quantity over quality. Plain and simple. Like a diamond ring at the bottom of elephant crap. Yeah the diamond is nice, but its covered in tons of crap. I cant see past it.

So I am one of those who isnt on GT5's side. I got rid of it a while back and have had 0 regrets. I am also not a huge Forza fan. I played FM1, and just recently (past month or so) FM3. I like it, and actually pre-ordered FM4. But I have no bones about picking the bad things out...problem is as far as a race game goes, there really isnt much to pick out.

I do believe there are a lot of people that bash a game w/o playing it. There were plenty of GT5 fanatics that talked about how bad Shift2 is/was. But when I sent them friends requests, they didnt even have the game. It all came down to "I heard this" or "I heard that" BS.

It seems most people on this thread have played both games but still prefer one over the other, and take it a bit too far...

In the end...they are freekin games. Unless they pay your bills, no need to take offense when someone talks them down.

 

[stiorevo]

Eh, my ultimate gripe, about GT5 is two things.

1. Overhyped to death. After it was released I didnt get it till waaay later. I wasnt not excited. Everyone I knew from friends, to people that work at a game store said if you have a PS3 and NOT GT5 you are missing out. I was excited when I got it, and after a week I was still scratching my head wondering if I was missing something.

2. Quantity over quality. Plain and simple. Like a diamond ring at the bottom of elephant crap. Yeah the diamond is nice, but its covered in tons of crap. I cant see past it.

So I am one of those who isnt on GT5's side. I got rid of it a while back and have had 0 regrets. I am also not a huge Forza fan. I played FM1, and just recently (past month or so) FM3. I like it, and actually pre-ordered FM4. But I have no bones about picking the bad things out...problem is as far as a race game goes, there really isnt much to pick out.

I do believe there are a lot of people that bash a game w/o playing it. There were plenty of GT5 fanatics that talked about how bad Shift2 is/was. But when I sent them friends requests, they didnt even have the game. It all came down to "I heard this" or "I heard that" BS.

It seems most people on this thread have played both games but still prefer one over the other, and take it a bit too far...

In the end...they are freekin games. Unless they pay your bills, no need to take offense when someone talks them down.

I agree they are just games. I had all of the forza's myself but I actually got rid of my Xbox 360 (too bad because my blue ray player just went out on me ) along with my Halo's and Forza's. I thought Forza was cool, but my personal preference is GT5. I did love the fact that Forza had a Lambo contest. That was cool!!!

I am in agreeance with you that you should try both games and then make a decision instead of just going off of what other people say, but for me GT5 will remain on top, that is until I get another 360 and try FM4