FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[zr1chris]

Yeah I don't think T10 is going to just give us 100 additional cars for free. No game company gives away that amount of extra content for free.

 

[Spagetti69]

Rollover is hampered in Forza too.

I was not aware of that.

Sorry to hear about your liveries loading slow too.
Mine haven't quite reached GT's general loading speed of anything yet.

 

[McLaren]

Obviously the DLC has to be purchased, but is not about the money, its about frequency and amount of content in relation with the game, for GT5rologue PD offered a DLC update for free, while FM3 fans have to deal with this. I'm sorry, but people have to pay 800MS points at release for each pack, is 4 packs per year and the content itself is split pretty badly, to match the car listing featured in GT5 people have to buy 2-3 DLC packs, which sums 30 cars but costs $30(each one at launch), and I'm sorry but 30 cars are less than 10% of the content featured in the game(restricted to only cars, and check the DLC model for games like Dirt3 for example) and people have to pay half the price of the full game to get that content, in relation on how other games manage the DLC I found FM3 DLC model really abusive towards its users, and its not like Iracing, because FM3 is not a hard core 1 to 1 simulation, because the driving aid and structure makes it a console game semi racing sim, not a full racing sim.

I am not going to discuss Forza's DLC with you any more. You've made posts in the past that show you making up (i.e lie) about the prices of the packs themselves. You've also made posts complaining about the DLC system works when it's that way for near every Xbox game.

In short, I've seen enough posts from you about Forza's DLC marketing to know you don't have any idea how it works & thus, it wouldn't be worth discussing with you about it.


Actually, now that I'm reading your post, I see you're sitting here making up things again. So much for that claim that you only lied about the "wind physics". The packs are not 800MS points. We have told you this before. There were also not 4 packs per year.

Hot Holidays - 12/8/2009
AutoWeek Car Show - 1/12/2010
Motorsport Legends - 3/2/2010
Jalopnik Pack - 3/8/2010
R&T Car Pack - 4/9/2010
Exotic Pack - 5/10/2010
Summer Velocity - 6/8/2010
World Class - 6/29/2010
Community Choices - 12/14/2010

Out of the 9 Packs available, 8 were released within' a year. We told you this before, too. The pricing you keep complaining about is also not up to T10. Microsoft is in charge of the pricing behind Xbox Live; it is only up to the developers to decide what content they want to release. So much for that point you were trying to make....

 

[tribolik]

I was not aware of that.

Sorry to hear about your liveries loading slow too.
Mine haven't quite reached GT's general loading speed of anything yet.

Talk about liveries slow loading speeds... Ive been waiting for my GT5 liveries to load since the game came out and still no dice...

 

[BusierDonkey]

I was not aware of that.

Sorry to hear about your liveries loading slow too.
Mine haven't quite reached GT's general loading speed of anything yet.

Though I've been on the Forza side of things primarily since back in my PS2 days, I do have to interject here.

When you build up a considerable amount of layer-rich groups, the system does start to take longer to load them as your collection grows. Right now I have about 40 rally car liveries I've created, all the FnF cars, many Star Wars liveries, and at least 100 other fully painted cars in my garage I've made in the last couple years. Most of them use every layer available to me.

Since T10 announced I will be able to take my groups into FM4 but not entire designs, I've been convertig my cars into groups. Right now when I scroll through the groups it litterallly chugs every time I scroll. It's getting worse the more cars I convert.

Now that being said, I'd rather have a small loading delay in a menu than no livery editor whatsoever.

 

[FyreandIce]

I am not going to discuss Forza's DLC with you any more. You've made posts in the past that show you making up (i.e lie) about the prices of the packs themselves. You've also made posts complaining about the DLC system works when it's that way for near every Xbox game.

In short, I've seen enough posts from you about Forza's DLC marketing to know you don't have any idea how it works & thus, it wouldn't be worth discussing with you about it.


Actually, now that I'm reading your post, I see you're sitting here making up things again. So much for that claim that you only lied about the "wind physics". The packs are not 800MS points. We have told you this before. There were also not 4 packs per year.

Hot Holidays - 12/8/2009
AutoWeek Car Show - 1/12/2010
Motorsport Legends - 3/2/2010
Jalopnik Pack - 3/8/2010
R&T Car Pack - 4/9/2010
Exotic Pack - 5/10/2010
Summer Velocity - 6/8/2010
World Class - 6/29/2010
Community Choices - 12/14/2010

Out of the 9 Packs available, 8 were released within' a year. We told you this before, too. The pricing you keep complaining about is also not up to T10. Microsoft is in charge of the pricing behind Xbox Live; it is only up to the developers to decide what content they want to release. So much for that point you were trying to make....

Don't forget that every one of the car packs are a "free" version which made it so you could see the real models of the other cars and get one of them for free.

The only DLC you really had to pay for was the Nurburgring track DLC.

 

[t.o.]

Don't forget that every one of the car packs are a "free" version which made it so you could see the real models of the other cars and get one of them for free.

The only DLC you really had to pay for was the Nurburgring track DLC.

And IMO it was well worth the money. If it was real life the guy at the gate would know my name now I've been running on that track like it's going out of style. It never gets old for me.

 

[ItsHim]

As far as DLC goes, there were indeed 4 offerings from PD:
the Chromeline cars, the Stealth cars, the Schick Camaro (NA) and the GT Academy Special GT-R (Europe/Australia(?)).

I've got no problem at all paying for worthwhile content (been a XBL Gold member for long enough), but just not forget all this is content originally made for the game in the first place.

As for FM2, one had to buy the DLC because the new cars were much more potent (R5 anyone? The Nissan Sentra was free though).

As for FM3, T10 wanted to do a pack every month for 12 months, but it seems the numbers didn't work in the end and this plan obviously came to a premature end. Or didn't it?

And it's pretty bad form to call someone a liar just because he or she doesn't get his or hers facts right. We all do at some point in time - I do for sure on a regular basis.

 

[McLaren]

And it's pretty bad form to call someone a liar just because he or she doesn't get his or hers facts right. We all do at some point in time - I do for sure on a regular basis.

When you get your facts wrong & someone corrects you, that's one thing.
When you go stating the exact same thing again afterwards, to support your "argument", then be prepared to for a harsher reply.

 

[drivatar]

Forza 3

• Graphics are uneven. (When run at 1080p), there is screen tearing and occasional slowdown (there is screen tearing and slowdown for me, so I'm giving my choice as higher res possible blame, but I'm not sure).

There is no tearing in-game and dropped frames are rare. During replays v-sync isn't enforced but there's almost no tearing. Turn10 cares a lot about performance and you can see it in their games.

The other major advantage for the Forza engine is the fact that (in-game at least), the game is v-synced and will never tear.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-forza3-evolution-article?page=3

 

[Luminis]

As far as DLC goes, there were indeed 4 offerings from PD:
the Chromeline cars, the Stealth cars, the Schick Camaro (NA) and the GT Academy Special GT-R (Europe/Australia(?)).

Should we count Forza's free DLC, too, then?

The VIP car pack which came for free with the LCE, the Motorsport Legends pack, which came free with new copies, and so on?

 

[ItsHim]

Should we count Forza's free DLC, too, then?

The VIP car pack which came for free with the LCE, the Motorsport Legends pack, which came free with new copies, and so on?

If you'd like to turn my statement in yet another argument, please do. Besides the stealth and chromeline cars were not free of charge.

Speaking of which, dlc is the answer to the question of how much content a publisher/developer should offer for a given retail price of a video game.

You didn't see the relevance of this at the time I made my original comment, maybe this helps you to understand my reasoning better.

 

[Jamezinho]

I've got no problem at all paying for worthwhile content (been a XBL Gold member for long enough), but just not forget all this is content originally made for the game in the first place.

Is that so?

Many of the cars in these DLC packs are 2010 & 2011 models. Not bad for a game released in 2009, hey?

Don't let me stand in the way of your ignorance though.

 

[PzR Slim]

Is that so?

Many of the cars in these DLC packs are 2010 & 2011 models. Not bad for a game released in 2009, hey?

Don't let me stand in the way of your ignorance though.

See, this sort of thing is main problem with this debate. It's not that people have different opinions but that they have to make it personal. It's really not needed and counter productive to the whole debate.

 

[jabofu]

See, this sort of thing is main problem with this debate. It's not that people have different opinions but that they have to make it personal. It's really not needed and counter productive to the whole debate.

There is just too much misinformation going around and people post completely wrong and false "facts". This way the discussions and its participants get heated up and this whole thing gets pointless.

The mods should really send some people here in the holidays. We all know who I mean. Spreading false information on some occasions maybe stupid, but when some user gets on and on and on with it, it is not acceptable anymore.

Such a great forum gets abused by some people who hate fm anyway.

 

[Nooboogering]

People hate both games but I wouldn't call it hate. In this day and time they will have to come up with a new word.

 

[HBK]

I have a hard time understanding your argument guys

What's the point about DLC ? Forza have some, GT have none. To clarify, I'm talking about "real" DLC (i.e. content which is created after the game has gone gold) and not bout "project ten dollars-like" DLC (i.e. content which is cut off from the game as incentive to buy new games instead of used ones, incentive to buy collector editions, or incentive to preorder games).

Why having some DLC would be bad ? It's an option.

You are willing to spend X times 5$ in order to add X times 10 cars to your game ? Go for it. You are not ? You're still getting X times 1 car for free. You can even pick only Y DLC out of the X available !

I don't get it. DLC is good. Admittedly, it's expensive. Very expensive. But then again, they are options. You want ? You pay and have it. You don't want ? You don't pay and still get a free item as download incentive (so that you will be able to see other DLC cars when playing online).

And if we are comparing GT5 and FM3, GT mostly had corrective patches thus far. The only valuable additions we got (online events and OCD) could even be seen as fixes to the broken career progression anyway. Oh yeah, and we got new outfits, helmets and options to take pictures of our avatar. Yippee !

Edit : And to be even more clear, FM3 feels very complete without any DLC. You get about 400 cars with your vanilla game. It's just that you can add about 100 more cars if you want (and pay the price), 100 cars which are far from being mandatory (even if cool, of course, then again what would be the point of DLC if DLC content sucked).

 

[ItsHim]

Is that so?

Many of the cars in these DLC packs are 2010 & 2011 models. Not bad for a game released in 2009, hey?

Don't let me stand in the way of your ignorance though.

Then I stand corrected in so far, but my statement is still true for the remaining cars. Or isn't it?

And please refrain from second-guessing my statements. I'm not quite sure what you interpret from me saying I bought DLC for Forza 2 (as I did for Fable and Shift), but don't try to put words in my mouth.

Gt5 has DLC, the commercial success of DLC for Forza 3 is questionable as I learned it was not quite so sure T10 would release all planned DLC in the end and DLC, in general, is a way of charging additional money for a product. It's more than likely that content on offer via DL was produced along with the original game. There are plenty of examples across the industry and with Forza 2, all DLC was included in one of the later updates and only activated through a tiny download.

Why you personally think I hate Forza is beyond me frankly. I'm posting in this thread because I feel GT5 gets far too much flak and criticism to what I feel is appropriate.

I just feel the driving experience is really not up to GT standards and the game play offered doesn't appeal to me (any more) because I can't be bothered by painting, tuning, setting up a garage or chasing my own ghost to make it on the LB in the same AWD cars. Been there, done that.

 

[HBK]

List of FM2 DLC as of live.xbox.com

Motegi Track Pack

Release date: 05/09/2008
Size: 183.18 MB

December Car Pack

Release date: 05/09/2008
Size: 93.78 MB

March Car Pack

Release date: 05/09/2008
Size: 55.01 MB

The September Car Pack

Release date: 05/09/2008
Size: 39.79 MB

#1 Peugeot 207 S2000

Release date: 19/03/2008
Size: 55.01 MB

Road America Track Pack

Release date: 07/12/2007
Size: 168.36 MB

Renault Clio 197

Release date: 07/12/2007
Size: 93.78 MB

Seat Leon Cupra

Release date: 21/09/2007
Size: 39.79 MB

Nissan Tournament Pack

Release date: 01/08/2007
Size: 15.78 MB

#8 Peugeot 908

Release date: 01/08/2007
Size: 15.78 MB

Sorry, no unlock key so far.

Edit : I can do the same for FM3 if you want. Still no unlock key in DLC.

Edit 2 : Of course, this doesn't prove that DLC content was not produced during game production, but I very highly doubt such DLC content is completed before the game goes gold and is completely cut off for greedy reasons. Granted, that's not to mean such content was not *planned*. But it's obvious (with the exception of zero-day DLC) that most DLC content is produced after the game has gone gold. I don't know, it just seems logical. If they really wanted to rape our wallets, they wouldn't do it with less than one fifth of the final game content. They would be doing it with about half or at least one third of the game content and sell it as "fully featured extension/additional content".

 

[Jamezinho]

See, this sort of thing is main problem with this debate. It's not that people have different opinions but that they have to make it personal. It's really not needed and counter productive to the whole debate.

It was not intentionally personal but if someone is going to insinuate that Turn 10 withheld content developed pre-release of FM3 to cash-in on DLC then they should at least check the facts.

Most of the DLC packs offer new models from 2010/11. I think it's safe to assume that most of these cars were not ready to go before release and Turn 10 are simply offering the consumer the chance to drive the latest models.

The bottom line is, as with all DLC, you don't have to buy it. The way I see it, Turn 10 supporting their product and continually offering new models to drive over 12 months after release should be commended, not criticised.

Most GT5 fans are gagging for fresh content (myself included) and whether we get DLC or not remains to be seen. It does make me smile, however, when I see continued calls for it to be free. That's just not how things work.

 

[Jamezinho]

Then I stand corrected in so far, but my statement is still true for the remaining cars. Or isn't it?

These are the car packs in order of release:

Hot Holidays Car Pack:
2009 Aston Martin #007 Aston Martin Racing Lola
2009 Audi #2 Audi Sport Team Joest R15 TDI
2010 Audi S4
2010 Ferrari 458 Italia
2010 Ferrari 599xx
2010 Jaguar XFR
2010 Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SV
2009 Mercedes SLR Stirling Moss
2010 Nissan GT-R SpecV
2010 Porsche Panamera Turbo

The Autoweek Car Show Pack:
2010 Aston Martin One-77
2009 Audi R8 LMS
2009 Audi RS 6
2010 BMW Motorsport M6 Coupe
2010 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport
2010 Ford Shelby Mustang GT500
2010 Saleen S5S Raptor
2009 Lotus 2-Eleven
2010 Pagani Zonda R
2010 Porsche Boxster S

Jalopnik Car Pack:
2008 Mazda Furai
2010 Jaguar #33 Jaguar RSR XKR GT
2009 Ford #40 Robertson Racing Ford GT Mk7
2010 Aston Martin V12 Vantage
2010 Porsche 911 Sport Classic
1992 Bugatti EB110 SS
2011 BMW Motorsport Z4 sDrive35is
2010 Audi TT RS Coupe
2010 Aston Martin Rapide
2010 Honda Mugen Civic Type-R 3D

Road & Track Car Pack:
2010 Volkswagen Golf R
2009 Holden HSV w427
2010 Ford Taurus SHO
2010 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG
2010 Renault Megane RS 250
2010 Vauxhall Insignia VXR
2010 Mini Coupe Concept
2010 Bentley Continental Supersports
2010 Mazda MX-5 Superlight
2010 SEAT Leon Cupra R

Exotic Car Pack:
2010 Gumpert Apollo S
2010 Spyker C8 Laviolette LM85
2010 SSC Ultimate Aero
2010 Devon GTX
2010 Rossion Q1
2010 Joss JT1
2010 Mosler MT900S
2010 Radical SR8 Supersport
2010 Wiesmann GT MF5
2010 Spada Vetture Sport Codatronca TS

Summer Velocity Pack:
2010 Lotus Evora Type 124 Endurance Racecar
2010 Mercedes-Benz SLK 55 AMG
2010 BMW Motorsport X6M
2010 Morgan Aero SuperSports
2009 Chrysler Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8
2010 Bertone Mantide
2010 Mazda Mazdaspeed 3
2010 Ford Fusion Sport
2010 Subaru Legacy B4 2.5GT
2010 Peugeot 308 RCZ

World Class Car Pack:
2011 McLaren MP4-12C
2010 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG
2010 Mercedes-Benz CL 65 AMG
2011 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
2010 Fiat Punto Evo SPORT
2010 Acura TSX V6
2010 Kia Forte Koup SX
2011 Mazda 2
2011 Citroën DS3
2010 Mitsubishi Colt Ralliart

Community Choice Classics Pack:
1971 AMC Javelin-AMX
1973 BMW Motorsport 2002 Turbo
1970 Chevrolet El Camino SS 454
1971 De Tomaso Pantera
1982 DeLorean DMC-12
1987 Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth
1990 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5-16 Evolution II
1978 Saab 99 Turbo
1983 Volvo 242 Turbo Evolution
1957 Ferrari 250 California

As you can see, overwhelmingly new models, except the community choice pack, which as the title suggests, asked the fans which cars they would like in the game.

And please refrain from second-guessing my statements. I'm not quite sure what you interpret from me saying I bought DLC for Forza 2 (as I did for Fable and Shift), but don't try to put words in my mouth.

Could you please quote whoever this comment was aimed at?

Why you personally think I hate Forza is beyond me frankly. I'm posting in this thread because I feel GT5 gets far too much flak and criticism to what I feel is appropriate.

Again, who is this aimed at as I never said anything of the sort?

 

[zr1chris]

There is just too much misinformation going around and people post completely wrong and false "facts". This way the discussions and its participants get heated up and this whole thing gets pointless.

Agreed! There are some people in here that wonder why they are treated like idiots when they criticize Forza and its because there points are just plain false or invalid.

 

[t.o.]

People hate both games but I wouldn't call it hate. In this day and time they will have to come up with a new word.

And I will now coin the word: iHate

Edit : And to be even more clear, FM3 feels very complete without any DLC. You get about 400 cars with your vanilla game. It's just that you can add about 100 more cars if you want (and pay the price), 100 cars which are far from being mandatory (even if cool, of course, then again what would be the point of DLC if DLC content sucked).

This is so true. Take it from a guy who bought no cars for FM3. I just didn't feel the need to. So much in the game already and even at this late hour of the game's life I'm still finding fun and interesting cars to whip around.

 

[cuco33]

Akiraacecombat spreading misinformation?

Must be new...

 

[barryl85]

Why you personally think I hate Forza is beyond me frankly. I'm posting in this thread because I feel GT5 gets far too much flak and criticism to what I feel is appropriate.

I put GT5 in for a play at the weekend - I just couldnt get into it, and graphically I was left in two minds from what I had said before about it being fantastic, minus the screen tearing and all those graphical errors I actually felt it looked like the car didn't look right - hard to explain what I mean almost like a bad blue screen CGI effect where the car looked like it wasnt actually on the track and I had a go on Nurburgring in the rain - I couldnt use the interior view as I could hardly see a thing, In real life wipers actually work.

Aside from that I got very bored even though the physics felt good I havent played GT5 in months and there was nothing new, money is now too easily attainable (thanks to all the moaners), having a nice garage with any car you want is too common now.

GT to me has always been about building my garage with all the expensive and desirable cars, golding the licences and then finishing all the races.

I'd say golding the licences could have been harder and the prize cars should have been far more exclusive. (I thoroughly enjoyed it though).

I'm now finished right up to endurance races in A-Spec and B-Spec (minus the Formula GT championship in B-Spec). I dont think I will go any further it just doesnt interest me and yet throughout the other GT games I was always into the endurance races for the prizes but the game is lacking in the prize car exclusivity dept for me to want to do this. (esp with all the duplicating and stuff - although other players garages has no effect on mine I like cars that have bragging rights).

And I have to mention this as its a real bug bear of mine - Standard vs Premium - I hate it as a concept and I hate it in the game, I believe if there wasnt such a thing GT5 would have much more on its side in the was of defense against rival games. Its one feature that should never even have been considered never mind integrated into what I was expecting to be the greatest console racer ever made.

I have always been a GT nut but I have opened my eyes to greater things not just what Kaz wants me to play.

I just feel the driving experience is really not up to GT standards and the game play offered doesn't appeal to me (any more) because I can't be bothered by painting, tuning, setting up a garage or chasing my own ghost to make it on the LB in the same AWD cars. Been there, done that.

I think the driving experience in Forza is great in comparison to GT5, I agree that GT5 has superior physics but not anywhere enough for me to want to play it more than Forza (and i'm talking about car on track time not the extras Forza offers).

If anyone could stereotype a game you just done it for Forza and its wrong. As far as leaderboards are concerned at least Forza has them ! The bit on the leaderboards that concerns me is Me VS my Friends not who can cheat their way to the top. Nice healthy bit of competitiveness between friends is great - esp when we set our own rules (usually same class same drivetrain e.g. B500 RWD).

The storefront makes tuning / painting easy if its not your thing at least its an option - an absolutely amazing one at that.

Upgrading the car is far superior to GT5 esp engine swaps - I'm a big Honda enthusiast (I know a lot of people dont like them but I do and thats all that matters) and Engine swaps is one of the most common things in the scene so it appeals to me ten fold, the subtle aero upgrades and wheel changes are also welcome. (I mention these because its available on 99% of cars in game and is far greater than what GT5 offers and not to mention GT5 has maybe 20% actually able to participate in the offering).

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

Wow...this thread is extremely entertaining.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Agreed! There are some people in here that wonder why they are treated like idiots when they criticize Forza and its because there points are just plain false or invalid.

Well, to be honest, it's like that on every forum, and not just here on GTP either. Just replace 'Forza' with the name of any other game. 90% of forum population just repeats what they have heard from someone else rather than having experienced it first hand. Or they just make things up. It's the other 10% that makes hanging around worthwhile though. 👍

 

[zr1chris]

Well, to be honest, it's like that on every forum, and not just here on GTP either. Just replace 'Forza' with the name of any other game. 90% of forum population just repeats what they have heard from someone else rather than having experienced it first hand. Or they just make things up. It's the other 10% that makes hanging around worthwhile though. 👍

Totally agree! 👍

 

[Vaxxtx]

Well, to be honest, it's like that on every forum, and not just here on GTP either. Just replace 'Forza' with the name of any other game. 90% of forum population just repeats what they have heard from someone else rather than having experienced it first hand. Or they just make things up. It's the other 10% that makes hanging around worthwhile though. 👍

Say it like it is. I am very glad I am not the only one that feels like that.

 

[JDMKING13]

People hate both games but I wouldn't call it hate. In this day and time they will have to come up with a new word.

This. 👍 Honestly there are people who played the game for a couple of months and tossed the game. How can you take that person serious? Also there are other people who have both games but lack a proper setup to fairly make true judgment. Its a shame man, honestly both games are great. They have there positives and negatives but in the end what doesnt ?