FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[barryl85]

But (not necessarily replying to you directly) saying GT5's soundtrack is embarrassing is just a tad bit presumptuous.

We all know who this was aimed at, I dont think its over the top at all.

You are just looking into it too much - the word embarrassing can be a very strong or light way to describe any given situation as theres no in between with something thats slightly embarrassing to something thats extremely embarrassing.

Me mentioning GT5 music as being embarrassing has been totally taken out of context to the way I originally intended on it being understood. The more I try to explain the worse it gets frankly.

I was meaning it was embarrassing as far as it being worthy of a mention from a subconsious/consious listner i.e. "wtf are you listening to" - you then need to explain.

 

[Luminis]

I don't give a rat's ass about Mr. Yamauchi's musical tastes. It just happens we kind of share similar tastes, or so it seems.

Which is all well and good. However, when reading this:

You may not personally like the music they are using for the game, but you should really try to *understand* the logic behind their choices. What Western people often hear as "another elevator music" is what Japanese contemporary-jazz authors currently experiment as of the most important genres for their musical scene.

If you take a time and explore the whole logic behind deliberate choices made for soundtracks in all GT games, maybe you would better understand the very clear and logical path of development of the unique and recognizable atmosphere of Gran Turismo series soundtracks. Also, no game except Gran Turismo can say it had the world's best piano player willingly opted to play for it's main theme and record his versions of some best classical pieces around for it's soundtrack.

I'm fine with other people liking that stuff; however, what's with that "if you don't like it, it's because you don't understand it" attitude?

As has been brought up earlier, it's not the first time I've read this sort of argument in favor of GT5. This is just another "if you don't like GT5, you don't understand Kazunori's vision" kind of thing.

I, for one, am turning the music of while racing and select a few tracks I like for the menues, because I don't like the jazz music. I don't dislike jazz in general, there are some artists who play some very nice jazz. I just don't happen to like GT5's songs - does that mean I don't understand why it's in the game? And, more importantly, why would understanding that be supposed to touch me so deeply that I started to like it?

For me, this argument isn't about whether I like the music but about people telling me that I'm supposed to like this stuff because it's oh so special. And, at the end of the day, it isn't even that, in my opinion.

PD can have the greates piano player of all times playing their songs or the best Japanese producers create some sort of jazzy tune - who gives a damn?
Am I supposed to like Micheal Jackson's music because he's considered to be the king of pop, and if I don't, I just don't understand the deeper stuff about it?

 

[HBK]

I was meaning it was embarrassing as far as it being worthy of a mention from a subconsious/consious listner i.e. "wtf are you listening to" - you then need to explain.

This off topic might be derailing a bit yes

I'm just saying that if someone asks you "wtf are you listening to", you might just answer "it's the crappy soundtrack of that game". No need to be embarrassed about that.

Well, in my opinion anyway.

As for Vaxxtx, I apologize, I didn't know there were people on Earth that did never care about music

I'm fine with other people liking that stuff; however, what's with that "if you don't like it, it's because you don't understand it" attitude?

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that if you don't "get" why such music is in GT, you, in a way, don't "get" part of what GT is. I'm not saying that's wrong. We can't all have a full understanding on everything. We don't need to. I mean, one can perfectly enjoy a game, any game, while playing without any music. And that's fine. It's just that music is part of a game for a reason. And you can't deny that. Even if you're not interested enough to care about those reasons. Of course, those reasons should have little relevance as to whether you like things or not.

Not sure if I'm making myself clear here

 

[barryl85]

This off topic might be derailing a bit yes

I'm just saying that if someone asks you "wtf are you listening to", you might just answer "it's the crappy soundtrack of that game". No need to be embarrassed about that.

Well, in my opinion anyway.

I dont think you understand. Its not about actually being embarrassed, its just a way of describing how silly the music must sound to some people when they hear someone listening to it that they know wouldnt dream of listening to it.

Embarrassing is a word that gets used often for describing something thats unpopular or out of the ordinary.

 

[Vaxxtx]

This off topic might be derailing a bit yes

I'm just saying that if someone asks you "wtf are you listening to", you might just answer "it's the crappy soundtrack of that game". No need to be embarrassed about that.

Well, in my opinion anyway.

As for Vaxxtx, I apologize, I didn't know there were people on Earth that did never care about music

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that if you don't "get" why such music is in GT, you, in a way, don't "get" part of what GT is. I'm not saying that's wrong. We can't all have a full understanding on everything. We don't need to. I mean, one can perfectly enjoy a game, any game, while playing without any music. And that's fine. It's just that music is part of a game for a reason. And you can't deny that. Even if you're not interested enough to care about those reasons. Of course, those reasons should have little relevance as to whether you like things or not.

Not sure if I'm making myself clear here

I am not sure if you are either

I never said I dont care about music. Please read this....I dont care about the music in GT5 because it does nothing for me, and even seems out of place, and I dont care about music in another 99% of games.

That has no effect on anything else. When I listen to the music I like, its not in a game. Its while I am grilling, or driving, or working outside, or taking a jog. Not when I am playing a game. If I heard GT5's music while doing those things, it would do nothing for me.

Again whats with GT5's oh-so-special, magical, mysterious, spiritual, coded, holy, mystical musical score? Do people really thing its a deep connection or something? Wow, I feel like people are making a lot bigger deal about that sound track than it really is.

If its such a huge deal...please tell me the Oil Change music and how it fits into the feel of GT5? And if "Getting" GT5 is also "Getting" the music, then people who put thier custom soundtrack in dont "Get GT5" either I guess?

 

[Astro-Racer]

The music in GT5 gives the game character.

Something the Forza series has always lacked.

 

[HBK]

The music in GT5 gives the game character.

Something the Forza series has always lacked.

Not really, especially in Forza 3 (and likewise in Forza 4, it seems). I don't know how the game's composer is called but his menu music give the game quite a bit of character, to say the least.

I dont think you understand. Its not about actually being embarrassed, its just a way of describing how silly the music must sound to some people when they hear someone listening to it that they know wouldnt dream of listening to it.

Embarrassing is a word that gets used often for describing something thats unpopular or out of the ordinary.

My apologies then, this is simply a misunderstanding

I am not sure if you are either

One thing is for sure, I have a hard time following you

I'm not saying "you don't get it you're dumb". I'm just saying GT5 music has a meaning. You obviously don't care about its meaning and it's your right. But you can't just dismiss it. And I'm not saying this meaning is like profound or whatever "I"m cleverer than you" bullcrap. It just exists. You're not like dumb for not caring about it. Actually, this may even been the clever attitude to adopt

But whether you like it or not, whether you care about it or not, music is part of what GT5 is (which could be said for many other games).

 

[barryl85]

The music in GT5 gives the game character.

Something the Forza series has always lacked.

Flame bait much?

The music is abysmal

Good music to me would be something I have on my MP3 player or listen to in my car.

Not some piano track - however you think that adds character to anything i'll never understand.

 

[Astro-Racer]

The music is abysmal

Different people have different taste.

Everyone is aware that the GT series has smooth jazz for it's menu music. And it's this that gives it character and makes it stand out from the crowd.

I love it. Although, maybe that's because I'm not a teenager.

 

[barryl85]

I love it. Although, maybe that's because I'm not a teenager.

Are you assuming I am? I can assure you i'm far from it.

But i'm glad you picked up on the fact that musical tastes can be associated with age and I guarantee the target age in marketing of GT5 would differ hugely to the average age of people who listen to "smooth jazz".

I'd love to see whats on the MP3 players of all these supporters of the GT5 menu music, see how supportive of the genre they really are.

 

[phil-t]

Different people have different taste.

Everyone is aware that the GT series has smooth jazz for it's menu music. And it's this that gives it character and makes it stand out from the crowd.

I love it. Although, maybe that's because I'm not a teenager.

I'd say the disjoint nature of the music, e.g. 'The entertainer' in the auto shop, then some random music when you pick a car up, this makes the Piano jazz seem just bolted in for pretentious reasons..

I don't see what age has to do with things, I still can't stand smooth jazz at 40, it's like the emporer's new clothes to me..

I'm not complaining, I just turn off what I can (Bit of a PITA, but do-able), if it had been any main stream music, I'd have left it in..

 

[Luminis]

I'm not saying that.

I'm not saying you did, that's why I reffered to Amar's post

What I'm saying is that if you don't "get" why such music is in GT, you, in a way, don't "get" part of what GT is.

My point is, understanding doesn't matter here. Taste is not always something rational. Thus, being embarassed (although a word I wouldn't have used in that context) is perfectly possible, in my opinion. Even despite understanding why that music is there.

So an add of Porche with Deadmou5 playing in the background will make you feel the same if it was Michael Jackson?

Who's saying that? I used Micheal Jackson as an example that such things as sucess or general opinion of an artist are not going to sway my opinion and taste.

 

[Nessy]

For me personally, the GT series without the jazzy vibes just would'nt be the same, i find it relax's and soothes me and thus provides me with a more leveled approach towards my gaming.

Just out of interest Barryl (you can tell me to mind my own business) but what is your usual music taste.... country & western? , don't get me wrong i'm not knocking that genre there's some great country & western out there, just curious is all.

 

[HBK]

My point is, understanding doesn't matter here. Taste is not always something rational.

Fair point.

 

[Bogie 19th]

The music in GT5 gives the game character.

The music in GT5 sucks the big one.

Something the Forza series has always lacked.

The music in Forza sucks the big one.

 

[Shant J.]

I love GT's jazz, and I'm 20.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Cool. My custom sountracks for the games tend to have songs like Kickstart My Heart from Motley Crue, or even Fast Cars by Bon Jovi.

I leave the funky stuff for the bars I go to

 

[barryl85]

For me personally, the GT series without the jazzy vibes just would'nt be the same, i find it relax's and soothes me and thus provides me with a more leveled approach towards my gaming.

Just out of interest Barryl (you can tell me to mind my own business) but what is your usual music taste.... country & western? , don't get me wrong i'm not knocking that genre there's some great country & western out there, just curious is all.

Why would you think country and western? I didn't think I gave off that impression ha

I dont mind telling you at all, I have a mixed variety of favourites. mostly hip hop, club, indie, pop.

To be honest if I like a song or piece of music it doesn't bother me what genre it is I will listen to it.

 

[Spagetti69]

Love your music bogie but not in a game.
Think Shift has done rock to death TBH.

I normally turn off any music anyway. FIFA 10 menu music was the only one I left on.

Don't buy EA games anymore.

Ya know, Browsing Autovista with classical music in the background would be right up my alley. And I'm not a classical music sort of guy. Think it would add some class.

 

[Nessy]

Why would you think country and western? I didn't think I gave off that impression ha

I dont mind telling you at all, I have a mixed variety of favourites. mostly hip hop, club, indie, pop.

To be honest if I like a song or piece of music it doesn't bother me what genre it is I will listen to it.

I guess you did'nt really give off that impression, i think i was just clutching at straws to try to understand why your peers would disapprove/question you for listening to jazz..

TBH, i'm actually quite surprised you list Hip Hop (amongst other genre) as being something you most listen to... i myself have been heavily listening to real Hip Hop since the mid 80's to the present day, and i'm sure i don't need to remind you of the influence jazz has played within the realm of Hip Hop (aswell as other genre) since it's beginning...

As much as i love Hip Hop i too will listen to anything that takes my fancy regardless of genre but i'd never be remotely embarrassed (in whatever context) about listening to a bit of jazz, but hey! if we all liked the same thing , the world would be a pretty boring place.

 

[cuco33]

I don't know why we're arguing over music. Music is pure preference. And both systems allow you to add your own music if you chose. With that said, like I said before, music plays little to no role in a racing game. Background music for menu navigation is the 'highlight'. In a story driven game, music is key but in a racer it's pointless.

 

[HBK]

I don't know why we're arguing over music. Music is pure preference. And both systems allow you to add your own music if you chose. With that said, like I said before, music plays little to no role in a racing game. Background music for menu navigation is the 'highlight'. In a story driven game, music is key but in a racer it's pointless.

Maybe we can agree to disagree ?

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Who's saying that? I used Micheal Jackson as an example that such things as sucess or general opinion of an artist are not going to sway my opinion and taste.

I was referring to you saying that music is only important for games that evoke feelings, such as rpgs. Which is nonsense really, as I pointed with my example. The importance of music+setting is in the eye of the beholder, and you stated your opinion as fact.

I have no problem with that really, just try to see the whole issue from other angles.

 

[HBK]

^ 👍

 

[cuco33]

Maybe we can agree to disagree ?

Always can, but music in a racing game is fluff. I'm not the rookie in Iron Eagle needing to hear 80s music to get in the zone. I get in the zone hearing my car screaming as I shift down a straight. To me... playing a sim with music on takes away from the immersion you get from hearing the bumps, the engine revving, the tires squealing, the wind passing by, the opponent on your ass, etc. In menus, they can have Britney Spears for all I car... I tend to change the menu BGM to something on the HDD but in game? 1st thing I do to switch it off.

The racing itself is the ambiance to emotions of the game. Story driven games need a good score to give you those feelings.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Maybe we can agree to disagree ?

Of course, but I find it amusing we're judging two car-game franchises on choice of background music and which one renders grass better.

That said, I do think BGM plays a vital role in racing games as well. Not so much while driving, but certainly during the menus. I kind of like the synthy elevator music tracks, but I turned off the slow piano-only stuff, feels out of place to me. Same goes for car dealership, I liked GTPSP dealership music better.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Love your music bogie but not in a game.
Think Shift has done rock to death TBH.

Thanks! Yeah, I have music off 99% of the time in racing games. The times I have it on is in arcade modes or splitscreen modes for fun.

Otherwise, I want to hear the engine, the transmission, the shifting, braking, wheel spin, you name it. All of it helps.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Always can, but music in a racing game is fluff. I'm not the rookie in Iron Eagle needing to hear 80s music to get in the zone. I get in the zone hearing my car screaming as I shift down a straight. To me... playing a sim with music on takes away from the immersion you get from hearing the bumps, the engine revving, the tires squealing, the wind passing by, the opponent on your ass, etc. In menus, they can have Britney Spears for all I car... I tend to change the menu BGM to something on the HDD but in game? 1st thing I do to switch it off.

The racing itself is the ambiance to emotions of the game. Story driven games need a good score to give you those feelings.

Wow....talk about a cheesy 80's movie I almost forgot about. You mean...this isnt how you are suppose to play? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP3f3FoJq-U&feature=related

 

[Daverytimes]

I don't see how 'understanding the logic behind something' is supposed to make it more enjoyable.

If I don't like Jazz, they can have the best reason in the world to implement it - I'm still not gonna like it.

For example, I can totally see the logic behind the paint chip system: It's a huge money and time sink. Does that mean I should find it more enjoyable than I do?

But will you be embarrassed by it?

 

[bullet360]

Judging somebody for not having mid-race music is just as wrong as judging somebody for leaving it in. ( not saying who did what specifically), but both sides of the arguement are pretty equal. Really all it comes down to generally is your opinion on "what" music you like to hear, and "what" you like to hear while racing. TBH l actually kind of do both while racing online. Sure i'll turn off the music more than i'll race with it, but are we wrong for doing more of one thing than another because we can?