Force feedback is just plain wrong (T500RS)

[weavty1]

What a ridiculous comment. The OP is not saying 'I can't hold the wheel' he is saying that you cannot LET GO of the wheel while going down a straight without the car crashing which YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO as Thrustmaster have made a huge thing about there being no 'centre wobble' on this HUGELY expensive wheel and is supposed to be one of the advantages over the (significantly cheaper) Logitech G25/G27. If one of the KEY SALES POINTS is in fact erroneous, I'd say it's a pretty big deal.

Please, if you don't have anything intelligent to add to the discussion, just refrain from posting.


Again, we all KNOW THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH THE LOGITECH's. The point is that this wheel is supposed to have fixed that as one of it's key sales points. See above re: unintelligent comments.

'unintelligent comments'... Nice one. However, I can still contribute to the discussion, with my [VALID] opinion and proactive comments to the aforementioned user. The video posted above, displays, EXACTLY how every other G25/G27, DF/Pro/ProGT, and YES, even 500TS, and the Fanatec counterparts, the EXACT characteristics as all of the other wheels on the market today. Big deal. The Thrustmaster version, is just the 'cream of the crop', expensive-fancy-dancy version, of the all the rest. Just like there are $30 FILA's, LA Gear, Sketchers, and then you have the $120+ Puma's, Nike's, Reebok's, etc.

 

[tribolik]

Circuit De La Sarthe

Ok theres your problem - its the bumpiest track it GT5 - if you tryed that there IRL you would end up in the hospital.

Try it on that big straigh SS something

 

[TwinturboCH]

I think the biggest point of all this should be, WHY should I tolerate a wheel that cost $600, yes SIX HUNDRED EXPLETIVE-ING DOLLARS, that behaves like this? I'd rather have a simple spring-loaded wheel with no force feedback than this nonsense.

It feels like the car has a slinky at each corner instead of urethane bushings. It's like one of those playground rides that is mounted on four springs; it yaws about completely unrealistically. Every car in the game does it. This is so unrealistic, I almost want to say that it's MORE REALISTIC to drive with a controller!

Exactly. If you pay $150-200 for a G25/27 then it is (sort of) acceptable, if you pay $100 for a DFGT, then you pretty much expect it, but for a $600 wheel, it's a god damn joke.

 

[NTIV10]

Give me a second, and I'll try another track and put up a video.

 

[Destinkeys]

Just not sure if, either IRL or in a game, why you wold even WANT to take your hands off the wheel? That a standard driving technique where you come from?!

The more important issue is, how much FORCE does it take to dampen that oscillation? I find it VERY minor with a DFGT (perhaps you can go to a GameSpot or other game store and try a DFGT out to compare) in GT5.

Seriously, dude, what you going to do? Go back to a gamepad? Or just keep playing something else until the first holographic, 3D, tactile and kinesthetic motorized simulator with artificial gravity effects comes out? You might have to wait a while!

I mean, if you are content to go around a corner without being thrown to the side, or brake and not be thrown forward, you have already abrogated your right to insist on COMPLETE simulation accuracy... Having to hold the wheel at all times is the LEAST of your issues!

 

[TwinturboCH]

'unintelligent comments'... Nice one. However, I can still contribute to the discussion, with my [VALID] opinion and proactive comments to the aforementioned user. The video posted above, displays, EXACTLY how every other G25/G27, DF/Pro/ProGT, and YES, even 500TS, and the Fanatec counterparts, the EXACT characteristics as all of the other wheels on the market today. Big deal. The Thrustmaster version, is just the 'cream of the crop', expensive-fancy-dancy version, of the all the rest. Just like there are $30 FILA's, LA Gear, Sketchers, and then you have the $120+ Puma's, Nike's, Reebok's, etc.

Your comments about the OP lacking strength were COMPLETELY unintelligent, so argue all you want, it doesn't make you right. If you want to make a sensible contribution, then feel free, but pointless comments are unnecessary and unwanted.

Why is everyone constantly missing the point? Fact is, Thrustmaster claim the 'centre wobble' problem is elimnated in their wheel and the OP's video shows that to be utter rubbish. My advice to the OP would be return the T500 and get a G25/27 for a third of the money. Hell, buy two and race your mates and you're still $200 in the black.

 

[NTIV10]

This is a point that I think a lot of people are missing. I don't care about how it behaves when I take my hands off, or even when I'm going in a straight line. It's just easier to show the behavior this way.

The problem is that the forces the wheel is demonstrating in that video happen ALL THE TIME, in EVERY corner. The car literally fights you around each corner, and it's infuriating.

Just not sure if, either IRL or in a game, why you wold even WANT to take your hands off the wheel? That a standard driving technique where you come from?!

The more important issue is, how much FORCE does it take to dampen that oscillation? I find it VERY minor with a DFGT (perhaps you can go to a GameSpot or other game store and try a DFGT out to compare) in GT5.

Seriously, dude, what you going to do? Go back to a gamepad? Or just keep playing something else until the first holographic, 3D, tactile and kinesthetic motorized simulator with artificial gravity effects comes out? You might have to wait a while!

I mean, if you are content to go around a corner without being thrown to the side, or brake and not be thrown forward, you have already abrogated your right to insist on COMPLETE simulation accuracy... Having to hold the wheel at all times is the LEAST of your issues!

 

[dmeech]

From my experience with my G27 most games do this. I figure its an issue with how the FFB motors work. It seems like it over corrects to center one way, then the other then so on until its jerking wildly.
At first it drove me nuts when i was playing some PC games and thought my wheel was broken. Then looked into how the FFB operates and figured this was the case and just keep the wheel grasped which can be annoying when i need to strech on straights.

 

[tribolik]

I have trouble hanging on to the wheel in the straights of la sarthe sometimes the cars even jump and I most say I enjoy it a lot - you cant let go of the wheel there.
In 99 because of the bumps a CLR flyed and he had is hands on the wheel...

 

[weavty1]

Just not sure if, either IRL or in a game, why you wold even WANT to take your hands off the wheel? That a standard driving technique where you come from?!

The more important issue is, how much FORCE does it take to dampen that oscillation? I find it VERY minor with a DFGT (perhaps you can go to a GameSpot or other game store and try a DFGT out to compare) in GT5.

Seriously, dude, what you going to do? Go back to a gamepad? Or just keep playing something else until the first holographic, 3D, tactile and kinesthetic motorized simulator with artificial gravity effects comes out? You might have to wait a while!

I mean, if you are content to go around a corner without being thrown to the side, or brake and not be thrown forward, you have already abrogated your right to insist on COMPLETE simulation accuracy... Having to hold the wheel at all times is the LEAST of your issues!

👍

 

[NTIV10]

I'd rather buy a wheel that has no force feedback at all than deal with this.

 

[NTIV10]

I mean, if you are content to go around a corner without being thrown to the side, or brake and not be thrown forward, you have already abrogated your right to insist on COMPLETE simulation accuracy.

I forgot to say, good on you for using "abrogated" in a forum post. I don't think I've seen that done before!

 

[tribolik]

Just not sure if, either IRL or in a game, why you wold even WANT to take your hands off the wheel? That a standard driving technique where you come from?!

I know of a great technique to drive with your knee on the wheel while on the phone (doesnt work with all trousers) but you have o set the force feedback to less than 5

 

[GregTheStig]

I've noticed the same sort of thing, and I only have a DFGT. I've noticed on a few other tracks that I can hold on with one hand and have it be (mostly) stable, but it definitely wasn't on Le Sarthe.

p.s. I drove an E60 M5 at the BMW Performance Driving School, all I can say is I envy you for owning one at one point

 

[x3n0n1x]

I've only seen it mentioned once in this thread, and i can't believe more people have not figured it out. The wheel doing that (which every one will, gt5 is doing it) is the game trying to give you tactile information of what your car is doing. If you are on an un-even surface at high speed the wheel will force itself back and forth to simulate that movement.

Look at the wheel in the video posted, notice as the car goes more and more out of control the wheel movements get more and more dramatic. Without this you would have no idea what what happening with your car other than the visual information. In a real car you can feel all of this, in the game it has to give you all that through the wheel.

While I too would like to be able to take both hands off the wheel on some of the longer straights, I would rather this tactile information be here than not. So until they come out with hydraulic racing seat seat ups to give you this information the right way we have to live with what we have, it just takes a little getting used to.

 

[tribolik]

p.s. I drove an E60 M5 at the BMW Performance Driving School, all I can say is I envy you for owning one at one point

Forget the BMW I just envy him for owning that wheel

 

[weavty1]

I'd rather buy a wheel that has no force feedback at all than deal with this.

Then go and do that, then....? 💡
I mean, I don't know what the point of this post was, if you hadn't used a force-feedback wheel before, and now don't like the fact that you dropped $600 buckaroos? Okay? I'm sorry.. Perhaps you should've found a mate with one, and tried it out first!

I personally don't like to spend over $100, and NOT at least tried something out before, I made my purchase, or even seen it in-action/in-person - Ie; vacuum cleaner, tv, car stereo, $600 PS3 steering wheel, exhaust for my car, etc. etc. It's like trying to find that one hot chick in a dark room, but the only catch is, the rest of the room is filled with drag-queens...

 

[NTIV10]

I've noticed the same sort of thing, and I only have a DFGT. I've noticed on a few other tracks that I can hold on with one hand and have it be (mostly) stable, but it definitely wasn't on Le Sarthe.

p.s. I drove an E60 M5 at the BMW Performance Driving School, all I can say is I envy you for owning one at one point

I wish I'd had the chance to drive one at Spartanburg. I got to do the M5 Driving Experience when I owned my E39 M5, which was still sweet.

It's a wonderful car. I sold it because it had 65k miles and if something had broken (especially SMG), I would have been bankrupted trying to fix it. I'll buy another one in the future. Such a shame BMW is abandoning the V10. The engine was by far the best sounding, most fun powerplant I've had the pleasure of experiencing. Driving a luxury sedan that sounds like an F1 car is quite the experience!

So after selling the M5, what did I do? I did the sensible thing and bought a Porsche. /sarcasm

At least my Porsche is still well within its warranty...

 

[MowTin]

Like many have said, the wheel lacks a dead zone. Just hold on to the wheel. It's just not a big deal.

But yes that wheel is overpriced.

 

[NTIV10]

Than go and do that then....? 💡
I mean, I don't know what the point of this post was, if you hadn't used a force-feedback wheel before, and now don't like the fact that you dropped $600 buckaroos? Okay? I'm sorry.. Perhaps you should've found a mate with one, and tried it out first!

I personally don't like to spend over $100, and NOT at least tried something out before, I made my purchase, or even seen it in-action/in-person - Ie; vacuum cleaner, tv, car stereo, $600 PS3 steering wheel, exhaust for my car, etc. etc. It's like trying to find that one hot chick in a dark room, but the only catch is, the rest of the room is filled with drag-queens...

How was I supposed to try out a T500RS, when it is still hardly even available to order online? My order was delayed by weeks after it was supposed to be available.

And I've had force feedback wheels before. Even with such (relatively) primitive games as NFS 3/4/5, they did not do this. Give me the FFB of the old days, or simple spring action, instead of this.

 

[Destinkeys]

One of the things that the wheel is supposed to do is give you tactile feedback on how the rear tires are gripping. IRL, you don't feel this as much through the wheel, but in the kinesthetics of knowing your car isn't pointed in the direction it is going. You feel it through the seat of your pants. They haven't got this kind of chair yet!

You are asking a lot expecting to get good accurate information about EVERYTHING the car is doing through ONLY a steering wheel, and yet have it still remain accurate to real life. It's one of the compromises you pay for not ponying up for one of those multi-million dollar gimbal-mounted full 3D simulators that they use for training astronauts and test pilots..!

But what seems to be an even MORE problematical issue is, from this thread, it appears you have NEVER used any kind of FFB wheel in any racing game before, yet you ran out and bought the most expensive one they make before even TRYING out a few cheaper ones to compare. You can't really complain about something that ALL wheels do, to one degree or another, or complain about common FFB techniques without any knowledge of the subject.

Me, I'd stick with what you have, get a DFGT, or just drop racing games altogether! Or start saving for that NASA simulator!

EDIT: Just saw your last post, but good grief! Those are arcade games without even the PRETENSE of realism. Deadzones as big as the Grand Canyon! Completely unrealistic handling models, little to no feedback at all. GT5 is a whole other level from those old arcade games. Just give it some time.

There are a lot of posts from first time wheel users (FFB type on sims) where they moan things aren't how they are USED to it. A few weeks later, that tune has sure changed! Think a bit more about what you expect that wheel to do, given all the other tactile inputs that are missing from driving IRL, and you'll see that they have taken the best way they could.

 

[weavty1]

How was I supposed to try out a T500RS, when it is still hardly even available to order online? My order was delayed by weeks after it was supposed to be available.

And I've had force feedback wheels before. Even with such (relatively) primitive games as NFS 3/4/5, they did not do this. Give me the FFB of the old days, or simple spring action, instead of this.

Same reason why they say to NEVER buy a first generation product, IMMEDIATELY right as it comes out, just to be trendy and say "oh I have this or that..." Really. You should've waited AT LEAST a month or so, so that you could observe what other owners were saying about theirs, not just some hyped-up press reviews (which the demo products given to them, are typically gone over with a fine-tooth comb by said company/manufacturer, prior to letting it leave their building, to ENSURE a satisfactory or 'good' review).

Sorry bud, but your fault on this one... ESPECIALLY, given the company's track record and what the company has developed/marketed before (correction: STILL being sold in NA.. lol):

And you NEVER did any other research on your $600 investment, other than the hype.....?



Whooooooops! Your bad.





AND.....

And I've had force feedback wheels before. Even with such (relatively) primitive games as NFS 3/4/5, they did not do this. Give me the FFB of the old days, or simple spring action, instead of this.

NFS.....? Really. Please insert foot in mouth on this one, sir. GranTurismo is a SIMULATOR [video game], not a PRIMITIVE game, as you so chose, to compare it to.







Problem; SOLVED.

 

[kayman]

The thing is, this kind of thing can be dialed out on the pc. My g27 and g25 both handle very nicely in rfactor with realfeel or leoffb in combinations. That's in combination with some logitech driver settings. But the wheels handle exactly as you would expect. That's why some f1 teams use rfactors commercial version with realfeel for driver training and course familiarization including red bull. So I would suggest it's not the wheel but the games coding that's the problem. Annoying yes, but you'd have to put up with it. I'd take it back and get a g27 unless the wheel could be used for other games or on other consoles or on pc.

 

[tribolik]

Try to play Need for Speed Shift with it and youll feel a lot better

 

[NTIV10]

But what seems to be an even MORE problematical issue is, from this thread, it appears you have NEVER used any kind of FFB wheel in any racing game before, yet you ran out and bought the most expensive one they make before even TRYING out a few cheaper ones to compare. You can't really complain about something that ALL wheels do, to one degree or another, or complain about common FFB techniques without any knowledge of the subject.

As I just said, I have used FFB wheels before. And I will ask again, how am I supposed to try out a wheel? Last time I checked, there aren't exactly kiosks at the local GameStop with a half dozen different wheels hooked up to a PS3 with GT5 on it so you can compare them.

 

[ara]

This is a point that I think a lot of people are missing. I don't care about how it behaves when I take my hands off, or even when I'm going in a straight line. It's just easier to show the behavior this way.

The problem is that the forces the wheel is demonstrating in that video happen ALL THE TIME, in EVERY corner. The car literally fights you around each corner, and it's infuriating.

It looks like at the start of the video the wheel is already oscillating. I would be really interested to see you demonstrate how you started the oscillation. If you started the wheel at an angle like was shown and you just let go, I would completely expect it to oscillate like that.

You are correct in that this wheel does not apply the exact same forces that you experience while driving your M5. I think your simulation expectations might be too high.

 

[NTIV10]

Same reason why they say to NEVER buy a first generation product, IMMEDIATELY right as it comes out, just to be trendy and say "oh I have this or that..." Really. You should've waited AT LEAST a month or so, so that you could observe what other owners were saying about theirs, not just some hyped-up press reviews (which the demo products given to them, are typically gone over with a fine-tooth comb by said company/manufacturer, prior to letting it leave their building, to ENSURE a satisfactory or 'good' review).

Sorry bud, but your fault on this one...

Somebody has to be the first to bring it up that the wheel offers nothing else that the others don't already.

I have always been an early adopter. I bought every iPhone the first day they came out, as I did with the iPad, despite the fact that no one knew what to expect. I am fine with accepting the risks that come with that. This is why the world has return policies (which I haven't had to use for any early-adopted products, save for perhaps this one).

 

[GregTheStig]

I wish I'd had the chance to drive one at Spartanburg. I got to do the M5 Driving Experience when I owned my E39 M5, which was still sweet.

It's a wonderful car. I sold it because it had 65k miles and if something had broken (especially SMG), I would have been bankrupted trying to fix it. I'll buy another one in the future. Such a shame BMW is abandoning the V10. The engine was by far the best sounding, most fun powerplant I've had the pleasure of experiencing. Driving a luxury sedan that sounds like an F1 car is quite the experience!
...

Nice, I was there only a few months ago and I drove the M5, M6, and the competition package E90 M3, and honestly the 4.0 V8 in the M3 felt more like it came straight out of a race car, and the DTC was so much quicker than the SMG. But I'll be the first to admit that when I first went WOT in the M6 I was laughing like a school girl Going back to my E90 328i was nearly impossible after that lol.

And I'll miss that V10 and all its glory as well, but it sounds like the F10 M5 will be incredible.
And good luck on the Porsche, those things are sick 👍

 

[NTIV10]

And you NEVER did any other research on your $600 investment, other than the hype.....?

What research would you have suggested that I do? Care to offer an article that says "This wheel offers no better force feedback than any other wheel, and still is not realistic"

As I said above, someone has to be first

Nice, I was there only a few months ago and I drove the M5, M6, and the competition package E90 M3, and honestly the 4.0 V8 in the M3 felt more like it came straight out of a race car, and the DTC was so much quicker than the SMG. But I'll be the first to admit that when I first went WOT in the M6 I was laughing like a school girl Going back to my E90 328i was nearly impossible after that lol.

And I'll miss that V10 and all its glory as well, but it sounds like the F10 M5 will be incredible.
And good luck on the Porsche, those things are sick 👍

I have reduced grown men to fits of giggling by doing a full throttle launch in the M5. It's quite an experience.

 

[weavty1]

What research would you have suggested that I do? Care to offer an article that says "This wheel offers no better force feedback than any other wheel, and still is not realistic"

As I said above, someone has to be first

WELL QUIT YOUR GODDAM COMPLAINING THEN, if you KNEW the RISKS involved........