Ford planning LeMans Return + Ford GT revival

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

You don't win Le Mans with a 7.0L V8 anymore. It's about efficiency, reliability, and consistency.

Only since 2012 and this year it was won by a 4.7 litre V8 but anyway...

 

[YSSMAN]

Maybe I am, but if I am wrong, why hasn't any of them got the balls to mock up something to get them out of the lull of American cars these days? Everything American's do nowadays is take something from someone else and put it in a different shape with a different name and call it amazing.

Chevy SS - Holden Commodore
Dodge Dart - Chrysler 200
Dodge Charger - Chrysler 300
Yes they are all from the same company, but that's the thing. It's boring like that. Who wants to buy an MKz when they can have a Fusion, the exact same car. Why buy any GMC, when Chevrolet offers the same thing at most times at a lower cost. Seriously, who would want to buy a Ford C-Max energi, when you could have a Volkswagen Passat that gets the same mpg for 11k cheaper.

No one is original. They all take orders. How are you to expect their racing to be any different? What they to do, ask Mazda to build the engine?

I think you're mixing up a lot of things here. So, are you upset about:

A) Platform sharing

B) Globalized product development

C) Marketing

D) All the above

Winding the clock back to 1969 and giving each individual brand a development budget is downright insane. Its what spun GM off the rails in the '80s, its what nearly killed Ford in the early '00s, and its absolutely what was killing Chrysler up until Fiat took over. Sure, there is absolutely an issue with outright badge engineering, but with the elimination of brands and a better definition of brand identities, despite similar parts, can be entirely different in execution.

A globalized marketplace calls for globalized products, and that's going to include engines, transmissions and overall executions that are similar in the US, Australia, Germany, and yes... Even China. Development costs are crazy high these days on the global scale, but it isn't as though we won't see special engineering projects now and then.

In regard to Ford going into racing, well, it isn't exactly like they have a major racing program out there these days. Aside from their NHRA and NASCAR support, they supply engines for TUDOR, and that's really it. I'm definitely under the assumption that they've got a budget, and it sounds like they're willing to use it. They've got SVT to do plenty of work, in addition to Ford Racing. If they are going to leverage their TUDOR support into this GTE project, I'm willing to bet it'll do fantastic.

 

[Northstar]

I'm just referring to original GT40.

You mean the one that failed miserably under English leadership and was only competitive after Shelby (an American) got involved? Keep in mind during that same period, Shelby was giving Ferrari something to worry about in the GT class with the Daytona Coupe.

No one is original.

Welcome to the real world, as you delve further into it, you'll find this is hardly something that's limited to U.S. manufacturers.

 

[Slash]

Why do I have a feeling it will be Coyote powered...

 

[Swagger897]

I think you're mixing up a lot of things here. So, are you upset about:

A) Platform sharing

B) Globalized product development

C) Marketing

D) All the above

Winding the clock back to 1969 and giving each individual brand a development budget is downright insane. Its what spun GM off the rails in the '80s, its what nearly killed Ford in the early '00s, and its absolutely what was killing Chrysler up until Fiat took over. Sure, there is absolutely an issue with outright badge engineering, but with the elimination of brands and a better definition of brand identities, despite similar parts, can be entirely different in execution.

A globalized marketplace calls for globalized products, and that's going to include engines, transmissions and overall executions that are similar in the US, Australia, Germany, and yes... Even China. Development costs are crazy high these days on the global scale, but it isn't as though we won't see special engineering projects now and then.

In regard to Ford going into racing, well, it isn't exactly like they have a major racing program out there these days. Aside from their NHRA and NASCAR support, they supply engines for TUDOR, and that's really it. I'm definitely under the assumption that they've got a budget, and it sounds like they're willing to use it. They've got SVT to do plenty of work, in addition to Ford Racing. If they are going to leverage their TUDOR support into this GTE project, I'm willing to bet it'll do fantastic.

A lot of that you describe of me is correct. But my main point was (and I guess the rant wasn't so clear about until the last bit at the end) if an American Auto group (other than Corvette Racing) is to enter now after some great amount of years, and hype up everyone, how are they to be any good when they don't have a dedicated manufacture racing division?

Welcome to the real world, as you delve further into it, you'll find this is hardly something that's limited to U.S. manufacturers.

Oh no, I realize it else where in other European manufactures. Audi, my favorite company is a main culprit too with Lamborghini and VW... HOWEVER, their racing teams allow them to use some things and put it in their production cars which benefit the whole auto group... What does Ford do with racing? Well, they don't race, people buy their cars and modify without their help. Chevrolet on the other hand, has had a hand in racing since forever almost, but other than what goes into Corvette to Corvette, I really don't hear much else from that aspect. The SRT Viper was almost an exact chasis rebuilt for their racing team, and the Audi R8 uses what I found up to 70% of the production car...

I'm pretty sure the NASCAR Ford Fusion uses just about 0.0001% of the same components as the production car. Minus the fuses if they'd even go that far..

 

[ShobThaBob]

Useless thread. It isn't happening.

 

[YSSMAN]

Couple of things...

But my main point was (and I guess the rant wasn't so clear about until the last bit at the end) if an American Auto group (other than Corvette Racing) is to enter now after some great amount of years, and hype up everyone, how are they to be any good when they don't have a dedicated manufacture racing division?

Well, technically they do have Ford Racing, which does have their hand in multiple racing programs, but a dedicated FIA-style program, they do not. They have created turn-key Mustangs for GT racing previously, and they have had moderate success with it... But it is by no means the same kind of thing that they had going on back in the late '80s and early '90s between the Mustang and Thunderbird and the wide variety of programs each model participated in.

HOWEVER, their racing teams allow them to use some things and put it in their production cars which benefit the whole auto group... What does Ford do with racing?

Well, that entirely depends on what you're looking at in terms of race-to-road from every brand. Generally speaking, it seems that more often than anything, it is F1 technology that drops downward through the racing series before reaching our vehicles, and even then, those technologies seem to vary wildly in their actual application. Of recent memory of a Ford Racing product finding its way into current vehicles, well, I'm either grasping at straws or coming up short. Certainly, the BOSS 302 Mustang from 2012-2013 derived a lot of its performance potential from the GT500R program, in addition to warmed over chassis bits that had evolved since the chassis first showed up in 2005. I can think of a transmission development program that likely eventually lead to the PowerShift automatics we have today that showed up in a Mustang racing car from 10-15 years ago, but again, actual ties to what we have are likely a bit thin.

I do think that you're expecting a bit too much from a new Ford GTxx program, here. Historically speaking, while the Ford GT40 was a pretty big leap forward for the company in terms of outright engineering, keep in mind that a lot of what was in the car were off the shelf bits and pieces from other projects - including Ford's own NASCAR efforts. I'd generally expect the new modern example to be much of the same, wherein despite the new chassis, applications of other bits and pieces from other Ford products seem like a no-brainer. Hell, it very well could be our first application of their EcoBoost tech on a V8, which, people have generally been clamoring for since the start.

 

[Swagger897]

Couple of things...



Well, technically they do have Ford Racing, which does have their hand in multiple racing programs, but a dedicated FIA-style program, they do not. They have created turn-key Mustangs for GT racing previously, and they have had moderate success with it... But it is by no means the same kind of thing that they had going on back in the late '80s and early '90s between the Mustang and Thunderbird and the wide variety of programs each model participated in.




Well, that entirely depends on what you're looking at in terms of race-to-road from every brand. Generally speaking, it seems that more often than anything, it is F1 technology that drops downward through the racing series before reaching our vehicles, and even then, those technologies seem to vary wildly in their actual application. Of recent memory of a Ford Racing product finding its way into current vehicles, well, I'm either grasping at straws or coming up short. Certainly, the BOSS 302 Mustang from 2012-2013 derived a lot of its performance potential from the GT500R program, in addition to warmed over chassis bits that had evolved since the chassis first showed up in 2005. I can think of a transmission development program that likely eventually lead to the PowerShift automatics we have today that showed up in a Mustang racing car from 10-15 years ago, but again, actual ties to what we have are likely a bit thin.

I do think that you're expecting a bit too much from a new Ford GTxx program, here. Historically speaking, while the Ford GT40 was a pretty big leap forward for the company in terms of outright engineering, keep in mind that a lot of what was in the car were off the shelf bits and pieces from other projects - including Ford's own NASCAR efforts. I'd generally expect the new modern example to be much of the same, wherein despite the new chassis, applications of other bits and pieces from other Ford products seem like a no-brainer. Hell, it very well could be our first application of their EcoBoost tech on a V8, which, people have generally been clamoring for since the start.

FIA based is what I was also referring to. Not quite entirely sure as how they are going to pick their drivers too, as in from what programs.

Some people have too much hype for this project, that's what it is imo. They expect the 60's to come back and actually contest with LMP1. Some of the die-hard American Ford fans who've only been exposed to American racing don't quite understand how it all works in the FIA, as the FIA aren't broadcasted as much as say, TUDOR, or even how Grand-Am used to be. If Ford can manage to be on the same level as Aston, for the first in 50 years, I'll be amused.

 

[AudiMan2011]

New Ford GT concept, now with a twin turbo Ecoboost V6:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-detroit-motor-show/all-new-ford-gt-revealed-detroit

 

[sems4arsenal]

Yes folks it's time for this gif again

 

[Earth]

Color me disappointed

It has no character. Just a big mashup. Generic

 

[catamount39]

Beautiful job Ford!

 

[sems4arsenal]

This is like the Huayra all over again, a bit ugly but damn I love it, now put some stripes on it (RIP Manual btw)

 

[Lizard]

Looks like a cross between an old Ford GT and a Ferrari 458.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Color me disappointed

It has no character. Just a big mashup. Generic

I agree, was expecting something different. The exhaust placement is interesting though.

 

[yabiggoose]

 

[GTboyz]

I just need to hear the sound, then those V6 scepticism in my head will hopefully gone.

 

[ECGadget]

I think it looks very Ford. Not the best looking car, but very Ford. I love it. Only downside... I wish there was a manual option, but there is still hope! (Not that I will ever get to drive one, but still would be nice! xD)

 

[andrea]

Asterion, anyone?

 

[GT5 Level 41]

Love the body, hate the instrument cluster. Needs old school analog gauges.

 

[dice1998]

 

[Liquid]

Pros:

Front end
Sleek
Well proportioned

Cons:

Rear end
Headlight bulbs
The way the middle tapers and slots into the rear and the rear bends outwards around it

Overall: 61%

Concepts are always wild and ostentatious. Interesting to see how the real thing looks compared to that.

Edit: Down to 61% after that full shot of the rear end. Hideous. It looks like Milhouse with that blue brow and big red eyes.

 

[Cano]

This doesn't look Ford at all. But it looks absolutely freaking smashing. Love it. Love the color too.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Concepts are always wild and ostentatious. Interesting to see how the real thing looks compared to that.

I bet you this thing is 95% production ready.

 

[Legro]

It looks quite long. I like the way the air can go from both sides of the side intake and the fact it has design cues from the original GT40, but doesn't look like from the 60s. Also, twin-turbo V6, so it'll piss off the V8 purists.

 

[CodeRedR51]

It looks quite long. I like the way the air can go from both sides of the side intake and the fact it has design cues from the original GT40, but doesn't look like from the 60s. Also, twin-turbo V6, so it'll piss off the V8 purists.

It's doing that quite well already.

 

[Cano]

It's doing that quite well already.

Indeed. I'm trying not to say something. I think it's the fact that it's not a straight-up GT revival like the previous car (something they could not have done because, well, they did it already) what more or less keeps everyone from going omfgnov8, but it's also hard to argue having a proven racing motor under your bonnet and 600 conservative hp to brag about.

Even so, I',m sure we'll see retrofits once this hits the streets.

 

[Keef]

Dem aeros OMG.

I have to say, it is awkwardly long. The long rear overhang is unusual for mid-engined cars. However, it is better for aerodynamics. Obviously it serves the same purpose as various "long tail" versions of race cars like the later GT40s, Nissan R390 and F1 GTR amongst others. It is a totally modern interpretation of the American mid-engine supercar and actually incorporates some interesting designs like the flow-through aerodynamics. This should reduce drag and also give the rear wing much more direct airflow to work with. Because this allows airflow under the wing, it can still be very functional at its lowest setting and not induce any more drag by being on tall stalks.

I still think the P1 is the most beautifully sculpted aerodynamic device ever but this thing ain't half bad either. Better than a damn laFerrari...I just wish this competed at that same level of performance.

Anybody think this car can kill a Speciale or 650S?

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Am I the only one wondering what game is gonna be the first to have this in it?

 

[Keef]

I'm kind of curious where the engine's intake air comes from. From the big side intakes? If so, how do the route it into the engine bay when it's that close to the rear wheel? Do they take it straight down, under the gap and up into the engine? Sounds complicated.