FORMULA 1™ Magyar Nagydíj 2007

[Solid Lifters]

Ron Dennis was PISSED OFF! Man, he looked livid. Did you see him toss his headphones off, and then grab that Spanish-looking tech guy by the back of his neck? Even the announcer said, "For a man whose team just went 1-2, he's NOT a happy man."

Wow, the drama, man. lol

It looks like maybe some team members were looking out for Alonso's best interest. No doubt, I feel somebody may be fired for this.

If Alonso acted alone, it was a very dirty trick. I'm not approving of his methods. I thought Alonso had more class than this if he did it deliberately.

 

[slackbladder]

If Alonso acted alone, it was a very dirty trick. I'm not approving of his methods. I thought Alonso had more class than this if he did it deliberately.

Agreed. I was astounded and I kinda' hope he's vindicated. But I just son't see it.
And in the press conference afterwards, just by looking at Alonso he looked grim, as if he'd just run over a dog rather than getting pole! He looked like someone who'd been found guilty at a trial...

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

^^i don't know whether he's broken his contract but he's definitely broke ron dennis's heart...how often do you see a team boss so upset when 2 of his drivers are in the top row? Apparently alonso's physio was involved as well..which meant alonso's planned this before qualifying and the team was not involved...how devious...

I wondered who that was that Ron Dennis angrily grabbed a hold of during the TV coverage following Alonso's pit stop. Even the commentators seemed confused by it. I assume this was Alonso's physiotherapist.


Reports are already coming in about this ever increasingly bizarre and ugly situation:

According to several observers in the media centre here in Budapest, McLaren boss Ron Dennis had hard words with Fernando Alonso's personal physiotherapist after it appeared that the reigning world champion shrewdly held up teammate Lewis Hamilton in the final pit stop service.

Dennis, after slamming his headphones down on the pit wall in disgust, then walked the length of the Hungaroring pitlane with his arm around the McLaren-clad physiotherapist -- not letting go either when talking briefly with the press or with an FIA representative.

It is alleged by media sources that Alonso had only vacated his pit box after a furtive signal from the physio, despite the fact that his tyres had been changed and the lollipop raised.

Alonso protested that he did not mean to prevent Hamilton from completing his out lap in time: "I'm sorry for him but I leave the pits when I'm told to."

If it turns out Alonso used his physical therapist to plan ahead of time this strategy without informing anyone else on his team... wow... how more ugly can things at McLaren get?!?!?!


This would also explain why even Alonso's own crew showed almost no joy in the garage area when he won pole... and certainly would explain why Ron Dennis is so incredibly angry, and how Alonso looked as guilty as a wolf caught with wool in his mouth during the post qualifying press conference!


While Independence Day was a month ago, it looks like the real fireworks display has only just begun!

 

[picklesam]

yes that guy was the physio...and there's tv footage of him giving the signal apparently...the whole thing's definitely pre-planned between him and alonso...thats why ron was upset. i dont think he'll be punished by mclaren though since championship points are still on the line.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I really have to give Hamilton serious props for how he conducted himself after the qualifying session and during the post qualifying press conference.

While you could tell Alonso looked sheepishly guilty, and Hamilton clearly knew what Alonso had done, he still shook Alonso's hand, and while clearly angry over the situation, I thought he showed an amazing amount of restraint while at the same time, making it pretty clear to everyone that he was displeased with what happened, but at the same time, he graciously held back from actually pointing any fingers.

For a rookie, he has shown a great deal of maturity, even more than some of the veterans, and certainly more than the reigning champ.

This kid just keeps on impressing me, and at least he has given me a slimmer of hope for the future of F1. 👍

 

[Solid Lifters]

Actually, I was a bit disappointed in Hamilton. Why he didn't step up to Alonso and totally b****-slap him, I'll never know. lol

 

[picklesam]

yes i totally agree...lewis doesn't let his competitors know that he's upset. he gets on with it because he doesn't want alonso to know he's got to him...and therefore still manage to have a mental advantage by not showing any emotions. Where as alonso is a hot head and will let everybody know if he's not happy...eg US gp darting towards pitwall...

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I'd love to see the kind of captions GTP members would come up with in the F1 Picture Caption Game thread from the following photo:

 

[picklesam]

LOL..or this one..

 

[darkfinal]

http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/motor/formula1/es/desarrollo/1023669.html

Hamilton didn't follow team orders and McLaren blocked him with Alonso.

The strange maneuver between Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton at Hungary's GP Quali season appears to turn into one of the most surrealist episodes in this sport's history. After accusing Alonso for deliberately blocking his teammate during his last pit stop and the FIA, pressed by the british media, opened an investigation about the spanish' move, the fault is... Hamilton's! Ron Dennis had a talk with both of his drivers and the british admitted he didin't follow the team's orders. The team told him six times to let Alonso pass him during the Q3, but Hamilton kept pushing hard.

Then, with both of them arriving to the pits, McLaren decided to stop Hamilton by ordering Alonso not to move. That's what the spanish explained, saying that it was a team order. This way, there are no possibilities of penalizing Alonso, since radio conversations demonstrate everything was due to the team's strategy, that Alonso didn't do anything that he wasn't told to, and that the one who made a wrong move was Hamilton by not following the orders. Ron Dennis' angryness came up by the chaos that his team brought up by misfollowing his orders, and having to block Hamilton in order to follow said strategy.

I won't believe this until I read the same at a non-spanish media site, buuut... It keeps sounding weird to me.

(Yes, it was me translating the whole thing. Creepy, eh?)

 

[livemusic]

If that's true that would be amazing.

 

[slackbladder]

Okay - www.autosport.com

McLaren team boss Ron Dennis has confirmed Lewis Hamilton was to blame for the qualifying incident involving the Briton and teammate Fernando Alonso, after the rookie driver ignored team orders earlier in the session.

Weeeeell....assuming this IS correct...I think many owe Alonso an apology (including me). I kinda' hoped there was some "other" reason though.
HOWEVER, I still don't get a few things. Why didn't he leave when he saw Hamilton behind him (no timer?)? Why grab hold of Alonso's trainer (Dennis got it wrong?)?
The critical side of me is saying Dennis is being very clever covering for Alonso so he keeps his pole. But he's essentially blaming Hamilton. So...what do people think?

Although the Spaniard had been waved by his "lolly pop" mechanic to leave the pitlane, Dennis revealed Alonso's engineer had instructed him to wait as a consequence of Hamilton disobeying the team's orders earlier on.

Can someone explain this?

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Sounds like Ron Denis and McLaren doing some damage control to prevent any penalties.

Alonso's management team is certainly goingto have their hands full, and in full damage control mode... I suspect they'll also have to find him a new physical therapist.

 

[slackbladder]

I love the impartiality of the spanish rags, and there ability to not let facts get in their way of telling a good story.
Agreed. Alonso's management team is certainly goingto have their hands full, and in full damage control mode... I suspect they'll also have to find him a new physical therapist.

Read the autosport link. All in English and from Ron Dennis himself (it would seem). The more I read it the more confused I am

Okay edit that. You've read it!👍
I don't get it though.

I thought that, to avoid penelties but dumping on Hamilton? Doesn't seem likely just for saving Alonso. We'll see in the race tomorrow. If Hamilton wins *conspiracy*

THIS seems conclusive (I guess ) www.autosport.com

World champion Fernando Alonso has said McLaren teammate Lewis Hamilton triggered the incident the duo were involved in during qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix.
Alonso got pole position after controversially making his teammate wait in the pitlane for some ten seconds before he got his car moving.

Not sure I like Alonso ragging on Hamilton but I guess he has a point and if indeed true Hamilton is in the dog house.

 

[darkfinal]

DN, I love the impartiality of the rest of the world towards Alonso when compared to Hamilton, too.

Apparently, the lollipop man wasn't supposed to lift it so soon. He was confused by Hamilton behind the spanish. In any case, the engineers are the ones to control the driver's exit, and the orders were to make him wait a couple seconds.

 

[Christhedude]

hey guys, i've been at the track yesterday. just been there for the friday practise. we set a the tribune at turn 14/start-finish straight. was pretty cool. will upload some pics later looking forward to the race tomorrow

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

DN, I love the impartiality of the rest of the world towards Alonso when compared to Hamilton, too.

Right, because after all Hamilton has been behaving just like Alonso.

Apparently, the lollipop man wasn't supposed to lift it so soon. He was confused by Hamilton behind the spanish. In any case, the engineers are the ones to control the driver's exit, and the orders were to make him wait a couple seconds.

A couple? Try thirty seconds, and other than post race anecdotal coverage, we have no proof that they were ordered to hold Alonso up for 30 seconds.





Assuming this news is accurate, if by laying blame on Hamilton neither driver is penalized by F1, then that would explain why, regardless of how bizarre and unrealistic it is for McLaren to blame Hamilton.

If they blamed Alonso then F1 would likely relegate him to the back of the grid.

So if your Ron Denis, which would you prefer... 1 & 2 on the grid or 1 & 22?

Not saying this is why, only offering a reasonable explanation should this truly be what is now going on.

Although considering all the video evidence, of where the McLaren cars were on the track, and the reaction by Ron Denis and Alonso's own crew to Alonso's actions/or lack thereof in the pits suggest Alonso was clearly stalling on his own... if it was team orders, that lollipop would have never lifted until this so-called punishment time had been passed.

Frankly I think it's a pretty pathetic attempt to prevent Alonso from getting penalized, but at this point, I have given up hope on anyone in F1 to do the right thing. 👎

 

[daan]

Just as an aside, in qualifying, the fact the lollipop was raised doesn't really mean anything.

In Q2, at Alonso's stop, the tyres were changed, the lollipop was raised, but then the lollipop guy gave him a 5 second countdown using his fingers to tell Alonso when to go.

 

[picklesam]

Oh what a load of crap...ron's just covering alonso's arse so he wont get penalised...i told you guys he won't be punished because if championship points...his explanation doesnt make sense at all..

 

[darkfinal]

DN, read the post again. There are radio proofs of said decision.

 

[Metar]

Radio Proof > Rumors and ass-covering.

So apparently Alonso's innocent. As I said, the German commentators said while it was happening that Alonso's been told to stop. Though I still don't understand one thing: If McLaren wanted to punish Hamilton, there was another option - releasing Alonso in the right spot, but keeping the lollipop down for Hamilton.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

DN, read the post again. There are radio proofs of said decision.

What post has the audio from the radio that proves that McLaren did this to their own driver?

Oh what a load of crap...ron's just covering alonso's arse so he wont get penalised...i told you guys he won't be punished because if championship points...his explanation doesnt make sense at all..

Agreed.

Radio Proof > Rumors and ass-covering.

So apparently Alonso's innocent. As I said, the German commentators said while it was happening that Alonso's been told to stop. Though I still don't understand one thing: If McLaren wanted to punish Hamilton, there was another option - releasing Alonso in the right spot, but keeping the lollipop down for Hamilton.

Exactly! I'm sorry but there is simply too much evidence that doesn't back up this apparent latest excuse.



I'm starting to think the WWF is more honest and has more integrity than F1 now.

It's all so ridiculous.


F1 has now officially "jumped the shark". 👎

 

[Bram Turismo]

So if the radio stuff would be true, then Alonso would still have to start from the back, why? Well, the big boss says so:

116) b) If, in the opinion of the stewards, a driver deliberately stops on the circuit or impedes another driver in any way during the qualifying practice session his times will be cancelled. In this case, a team will not be able to appeal against the steward's decision.

If Lewis didn't follow teamorders, Ron should've delt with that after the qualifying sessions and not make Alonso stop which could cost him his pole. IMO, if Lewis did not obey to the teamorders, and Alonso was told to stop, then Ron should not be angry because clearly, he could see this coming. Or otherwise he was angry to cover the whole thing up.

Anyhow, I'm kind of with Digital-Nitrate on this one. In fact, it's getting ridiculous if Alonso doesn't get penalised for that move. First the whole Ferrari documents scandal without any action, and then something which is clearly not allowed by the FIA rules, and even that doesn't get a punishment? Then I'm thinking, where's the sport?

 

[slackbladder]

The only thing I don't buy on the covering up for Alonso idea was that they've blamed Hamilton openly. And Hamilton has remained silent. Personally I wouldn't, as a driver, take the rap for someone else particularly if they had cheated me out of my last lap. I'd tell them to go take a running jump. And I don't think Dennis would force him to either. It'd probably be against their contract anyway.
So really it could be correct. It may just be us the viewers getting ahead of ourselves.

I still don't get why Alonso stayed in front of Hamilton in the pits. But this would explain why Alonso was being held on his first pit stop and why he seemes agitated in his car.

Yeah, I think I get it now... Silly boy (you know who I mean).
If someone can convince me why Hamilton accepted this "lie" then I'll concede Dennis is simply saving Alonso's privates. I just can't see him saying "Yeah Ron, I don't mind taking the blame even the the son-of-a-**** cheated me!"

Anyway, we could do without this in F1. And it's not over yet. It could be Alonso is STILL put back places as, has been stated, Hamilton was held up all the same.

Never heard that phrase "jumping the shark" before LOL. And I used to watch Happy Days..

 

[Muzaffar]

After watching qualifying,i am just as confused as you guys.First things first,i do hope Fisi would get penalized for his action (totally ruining Yamamoto's qualifying lap not that i supported him) and serve you right Massa for being a 🤬 good thing his car had a problem,if not it would he would be in top 3.

The Alonso and Hamilton thing which got me 🤬 off!!! What the 🤬 was Ron Dennis,the jackoff spaniard physio or even McLaren was thinking of!!! Those 🤬 should just leave everything to normal,they would at least still be a 1-2 pole (as Ferrari has a lack of pace today....) Screw this qualifying,i better go and support the STR team if this keeps happening (oh yeah,good qualifying job by Liuzzi 👍 )

 

[picklesam]

If McLaren wanted to punish Hamilton, there was another option - releasing Alonso in the right spot, but keeping the lollipop down for Hamilton.

this is what doesnt make sense...ron dennis has the ultimate power in the team..if hamilton was held up as punishment the order would have came from ron...alonso's engineer don't have that kind of power...and besides knowing what kind of relationship ron and lewis have, if you were alonso's engineer would you have big enough balls to delay lewis as 'punishment'?

 

[darkfinal]

What post has the audio from the radio that proves that McLaren did this to their own driver?

Well, if the FIA says that audio exists, it must be true...

The only thing I don't buy on the covering up for Alonso idea was that they've blamed Hamilton openly. And Hamilton has remained silent. Personally I wouldn't, as a driver, take the rap for someone else particularly if they had cheated me out of my last lap. I'd tell them to go take a running jump. And I don't think Dennis would force him to either. It'd probably be against their contract anyway.

Precisely, because Hamilton ALREADY did his last lap. He wasn't supposed to do another one. If he followed the team's orders, this wouldn't have happened since he'd have another lap to do. So, it's not like he was held back from doing his last lap, but he still tried to make ANOTHER one.

 

[slackbladder]

Okay more from autosports news - www.autosport.com

Asked about the team orders he ignored earlier on, Hamilton said: "I was at the end of the pitlane; there was me, Fernando and Kimi. Just with the situation, I didn't want to disrupt the opportunity that I had.

You guys work it out.
As far as I can see Hamilton DID throw things out of whack BUT Alonso's engineer may have decided to keep Alonso waiting to deny Hamilton a final lap ON PURPOSE...perhaps. Like I said try to work it out..I can't

Okay, Hamilton was kept behind Alonso to stop him from doing another lap? Why didn't someone tell him? And if that is true than Alonso still purposely held him up? Oh I'm going to go now..

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

So if the radio stuff would be true, then Alonso would still have to start from the back, why? Well, the big boss says so:

116) b) If, in the opinion of the stewards, a driver deliberately stops on the circuit or impedes another driver in any way during the qualifying practice session his times will be cancelled. In this case, a team will not be able to appeal against the steward's decision.

If Lewis didn't follow teamorders, Ron should've delt with that after the qualifying sessions and not make Alonso stop which could cost him his pole. IMO, if Lewis did not obey to the teamorders, and Alonso was told to stop, then Ron should not be angry because clearly, he could see this coming. Or otherwise he was angry to cover the whole thing up.

Exactly right.

As someone already mentioned, if Ron Denis really wanted to penalize Hamilton by delaying him in the pits, all he had to do was keep him there after Alonso left.

This excuse simply doesn't hold water. First of all, this so-called team penalty is absolutely unprecedented, it goes against FIA rules, and it only hurts their position. Second of all, if it was some planned penalty, why did Ron Denis lose his cool when Alonso left the pits late, and why was the first target of his anger Alonso's physical therapist? It's all so ridiculous, and frankly it's making McLaren and F1 look like a 3-ring circus, and not the world's premiere professional motorsports racing league that it is supposed to be.

If someone can convince me why Hamilton accepted this "lie" then I'll concede Dennis is simply saving Alonso's privates. I just can't see him saying "Yeah Ron, I don't mind taking the blame even the the son-of-a-**** cheated me!"

If Ron thinks this is the best move to insure the team is 1 & 2 on the grid, I can definitely see Hamilton playing along... assuming of course any of this is real.

Never heard that phrase "jumping the shark" before LOL. And I used to watch Happy Days..

I had to add the link, as I didn't think many people would get the reference.

 

[Bram Turismo]

and serve you right Massa for being a 🤬 good thing his car had a problem,if not it would he would be in top 3.

What?

as Ferrari has a lack of pace today....

Ferrari does not have a lack of pace, both Ferrari drivers showed a faster pace in the last 3 races, although Kimi's car failed on him and Massa is a complete disaster in the wet...