Formula 1 Emirates United States Grand Prix 2019Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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Short of suddenly winning a race or stealing a podium, there's little Albon could do to justify his future seat any more than he already has.

-Consistent top six.
-Finished every race.
-Outscored Verstappen.
-Outscored Gasly's own performance as a Red Bull driver when comparing similar number of races.

So, yeah if he's not in the seat it's because millions of dollars of sponsorship appeared in someone else' bank account or something similar. Let's remember Verstappen's first win was more or less an accident...so short of that kind of luck for Albon I don't know what more he could do.
 
Am I the only one not convinced by Albon yet? Yes it is his first season in F1 and he has suddenly swapped cars mid-season, so does deserve some slack, but I don't think he's done enough.

He might have finished top 6 in each race and outscored Verstappen, but that's the bare minimum for the former and Verstappen's fault for the latter.

He has beaten Verstappen 4 times - Belgium where Max crashed out, Italy where Max had to start from the back of the grid and got damage on lap 1, Japan where Max crashed and Mexico where Max had a bad start and a puncture. Whenever Max hasn't had any issues, he has been ahead of Alex at every moment. Look at Singapore and Russia, which were pretty much the only races where that was possible.

He's nowhere in quali, having qualified 6th in all quali sessions without external factors getting in the way (best position being 5th thanks to Bottas' crash in Mexico). Alex's one good drive so far was Mexico, but that was really only the first stint and as soon as he was put on the 2 stop his pace disappeared and he fell a long way behind Leclerc who was also on the awful strategy.

We also need to take into account that Albon is still crashing a lot in practice and qualifying, him and Gasly have spent the year racking up the most damage of everyone on the grid. Red Bull are running out of spares because of this.

There are 6 cars capable of scoring podiums, but the second Red Bull still hasn't stood up there. Mexico was the first and only time that car has completed a lap in the top 3.

Don't get me wrong, he's doing a much better job than Gasly, but I think he could do with another year in Toro Rosso and Red Bull should get someone like Ocon, Ricciardo, Hulkenberg or Alonso in with a 1 year contract and give Albon the seat in 2021 once he's got the crashing out of the way.
 
Jimlaad43
Am I the only one not convinced by Albon yet? Yes it is his first season in F1 and he has suddenly swapped cars mid-season, so does deserve some slack, but I don't think he's done enough.
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From various bits I've seen in interviews with Horner he's performing better in the garage then Gasly. If all other things are equal this may still give him the edge. With that said I still think he's showing more fight than Gasly, that's why he's finding the "edge" more quickly. On balance Albon > Gasly in my opinion.

I also think he's wrecked fewer cars than Verstappen in his first Red Bull season, but I may be mis-remembering :D
 
He is doing better then Gasly but that is basically all you can say, I do think he is missing the ingredient to make the next step though, but it is his first season, it's just there hasn't been a real standout performance in terms of speed yet and usually a good talent shows that even if they end up crashing alot.

He will probably keep the seat but that is because Redbull lack good options, he has two failed drivers as rivals unless Redbull get someone like Russell, but who knows if it's even possible.
 
Jubby
You can roll your eyes all you want. In another words, Lewis may be a great racer and undeniably well within the top 10 of the modern era... but that reddit post lays credence to his lack of emotional maturity. I expect that out of Max... not a 6-time WDC and hall of Famer.
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Which reddit post is this referring to? I must have missed something.
 
Jubby
Lewis may be a great racer and undeniably well within the top 10 of the modern era... but that reddit post lays credence to his lack of emotional maturity. I expect that out of Max... not a 6-time WDC and hall of Famer.
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For "well inside the top 10 of the modern era" we can probably read "at the top of the top 10 of all time" given his astonishing achievements.

With regards to his "lack of maturity" and what you tell us about how that fits with your personal expectations of a driver... let's say that he is emotionally immature, his results show that your implied conclusion that he can't be that good because he's immature is incorrect. He is that good. I disagree that he's immature any more than somebody like Senna was, or a number of drivers who we now consider legendary. He's driven and singly focussed, one might even argue that he approaches race-by-race situations with more thought and aplomb than many who've gone before him. The way he works is the way he works and the results show that it pays.
 
Jimlaad43
Am I the only one not convinced by Albon yet? Yes it is his first season in F1 and he has suddenly swapped cars mid-season, so does deserve some slack, but I don't think he's done enough.

He might have finished top 6 in each race and outscored Verstappen, but that's the bare minimum for the former and Verstappen's fault for the latter.

He has beaten Verstappen 4 times - Belgium where Max crashed out, Italy where Max had to start from the back of the grid and got damage on lap 1, Japan where Max crashed and Mexico where Max had a bad start and a puncture. Whenever Max hasn't had any issues, he has been ahead of Alex at every moment. Look at Singapore and Russia, which were pretty much the only races where that was possible.

He's nowhere in quali, having qualified 6th in all quali sessions without external factors getting in the way (best position being 5th thanks to Bottas' crash in Mexico). Alex's one good drive so far was Mexico, but that was really only the first stint and as soon as he was put on the 2 stop his pace disappeared and he fell a long way behind Leclerc who was also on the awful strategy.

We also need to take into account that Albon is still crashing a lot in practice and qualifying, him and Gasly have spent the year racking up the most damage of everyone on the grid. Red Bull are running out of spares because of this.

There are 6 cars capable of scoring podiums, but the second Red Bull still hasn't stood up there. Mexico was the first and only time that car has completed a lap in the top 3.

Don't get me wrong, he's doing a much better job than Gasly, but I think he could do with another year in Toro Rosso and Red Bull should get someone like Ocon, Ricciardo, Hulkenberg or Alonso in with a 1 year contract and give Albon the seat in 2021 once he's got the crashing out of the way.
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I don't disagree with you. My thinking is that if Red Bull stays true to form in the sense that they will only promote from within, I do think he's done plenty to keep the seat if he's pitted against the like of Gasly or Kvyatt. As stated in my previous post, it's a fact that he is not fast enough to keep up or even challenge Max yet which should come with more experience and confidence in the car and in the team. If not, then he just wasn't meant to be in a top team.

If Red Bull decides to break their mold and bring someone else from outside the RB program (like the few people you mentioned for instance) I'm positive they would probably do a better job in the car. After all, even if RB is not quite in a position to really challenge for the win at every single track/race, Max has shown on numerous occasion that the car is at the very least podium material.

I never once thought that Albon would be winning any races but I did think the biggest achievement for him this season would be to put that car on the podium when Max has one of his "typical Max moment". He hasn't shown that he can do that yet, but overall his performance has been solid for someone who jumps in a car mid season.
 
Personally I think Albon is their guy. He might not be outdoing Max yet but let's not forget Max has a huge amount more experience with this car and the team pretty openly directs most of their efforts towards Verstappen and his car

Albon has shown, first of all, that he can drive the car around the track, which is already an upgrade over Gasly's performances. He's shown he can utilise the car's advantages and bring it home right where it should be - that being 6th - with some consistency, and he can make overtakes on track which makes him an upgrade over Kvyat who you can never be sure how safe the moves he makes will be.

Yes, he's not joining Max in fighting the Mercs and Ferraris, but I think that will come in time. The guy is still a rookie so I think it's remarkable the way he's been able to adjust to two different cars in a single season and still extract close to the best the car can deliver. If he is blessed with some continuity and trusted with the seat, I think he will start really getting involved in the fight up front.

I think it also helps that he seems like a very pleasant young man with good focus. I get the sense Albon is a very good learner and listener, just from the things he says to the media. RB knows Max is essentially at the top of his game right now so I don't see it as a huge detractor that they have a driver that basically just needs more time in the cockpit.

I think there's a sizable advantage to RB staying young in their driver lineup. Vettel and Hamilton aren't getting any younger and I feel if you drop Albon in favour of an older more experienced driver - say Hulk, Ricciardo or Alonso (I really think seeing an Alonso return is a serious long shot, though), you sacrifice the chance for these two young drivers to learn and grow together and the chance at having continuity in your lineup for multiple years - something RB could definitely do with.

So to me Albon is a no-brainer given the current situation, but Red Bull have certainly made some questionable decisions even in very recent memory, so I'm prepared for them to take a totally different route.
 
I think people are misinterpreting our enthusiasm for Albon. No one says he's the next world champion, or even a race-winner. But when I look at his performance thus far, it'd be a crime for Gasly or Kyvat to end up back in the proper Red Bull seat. I don't think the junior program has any drivers ready to immediately jump into the seat either...so we're simply pointing out that it'd be bizarre for Red Bull to boot him after this half-year's performance.

His ability, thus far, to complete races is almost more important than the other ones - with Max's tendency to go all-or-nothing, which hurts Red Bull's overall manufacturer points, a reliable top 5-6 finisher might be the perfect solution. Now, if he gets more comfortable and gets faster? Cool. I don't think anyone believes he's going to suddenly start beating Max, but who knows.
 
To me... Albon isn't good enough for that 2nd RBR seat. He isn't threatening any other car in the top 6 cars and he's far from it where his teammate is fighting for wins and podiums. No one expecting him winnings but RBR need a second car that put a little pressure to Merc and Ferrari. On merit that car is a "guaranteed " 6th unless something happens to a car in front. The only thing I see Albon is having is more media support given that he has British background and that he's doing better than Gasly in that car. Yet... Gasly is doing better than him in the Torro Rosso! So it could be that Gasly was having issues with that particular car.
 
I think it's far too late in the season to say Albon isn't good enough. He's coming in at a time where Max's season unraveled unfortunately. Max was a consistent Top 4 guy, starting to really finish strong and then once Charles & Ferrari found their footing, his season has had ups and downs; couple podiums, Top 6s, & retires. By this point, AMR is out of it anyway, but at least Albon gives the team some consistency depending on how fate decides to affect Max. It is an evaluation half for Albon anyway iirc, but I don't know who else they pick up. Some of the names suggested above are signed for next season: Ocon to Renault with Ricciardo, Alonso seemingly focused on the Indy 500 and done with F1, and Hulkenberg seems to be fighting just to stay in the sport.
 
evldave333
Did it?

Yes in an post race interview with Toto Wolf he said they had data that showed the ferrari LeClerc was driving was slow down the back straight. However LeClerc did have to revert to used engine set up earlier in the weekend which will have contributed to this... lets see what happens next 2 races...

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ite-hot-in-austin.5T8DgBQmSfjNEvrjHFygYF.html
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I can't find the Toto Wolf quote in that link?

Why would the telemetry be wrong?
 
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TenEightyOne
I can't find the Toto Wolf quote in that link?

Why would the telemetry be wrong?
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The quote was on the after race interviews on sky and LeClerc finished 50 seconds behind Bottas... The proof of the pudding will be Q3 at Interlagos when they go to highest engine modes (telemetry from the last race is moot anyway because LeClerc had a previous spec engine and Vettel only managed a couple of laps...)
 
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Betty blue
To me... Albon isn't good enough for that 2nd RBR seat. He isn't threatening any other car in the top 6 cars and he's far from it where his teammate is fighting for wins and podiums. No one expecting him winnings but RBR need a second car that put a little pressure to Merc and Ferrari. On merit that car is a "guaranteed " 6th unless something happens to a car in front. The only thing I see Albon is having is more media support given that he has British background and that he's doing better than Gasly in that car. Yet... Gasly is doing better than him in the Torro Rosso! So it could be that Gasly was having issues with that particular car.
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I agree on the latter case which is something regarding the car. That Red Bull needs a driver whose not too aggressive, and not too lean. It's something that Gasly mentioned about his driving style being too aggressive which didn't work for the RB15. So far, Albon is the man who seem to kinda get what the car's character is thus why he's consistently within the top 6 as compared to earlier this year with Gasly only finished in the top 6 for only 5 races out of 12. All that Albon needs now is to have more mileage in the car and perhaps take a little bit more risk. However do take note that Albon is still a rookie and have never driven an F1 car prior to the winter testing so overall he's still pretty impressive.
 
Prince.M5
I agree on the latter case which is something regarding the car. That Red Bull needs a driver whose not too aggressive, and not too lean. It's something that Gasly mentioned about his driving style being too aggressive which didn't work for the RB15. So far, Albon is the man who seem to kinda get what the car's character is thus why he's consistently within the top 6 as compared to earlier this year with Gasly only finished in the top 6 for only 5 races out of 12. All that Albon needs now is to have more mileage in the car and perhaps take a little bit more risk. However do take note that Albon is still a rookie and have never driven an F1 car prior to the winter testing so overall he's still pretty impressive.
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Horner said in interview this week that the seat is now Albon's to lose. That could be motivational-speak of course.
 
Have there been any rumours about anyone inside F1 gunning for the second RB seat? I think the praise of Albon is pretty justified, but more so if we're considering simply an Albon/Gasly/Kyvat world...which is where I'm coming from at the moment. I watched a few videos and it doesn't look like there is another immediate successor in the junior ranks right now for RB. We know they tend to like sticking inside the RB camp, but have any current/active drivers been rumored to be gunning for the seat?
 

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