Formula 1 Grand Prix de Monaco 2016

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dopedog
If i were him i'd not be moaning to much at Red Bull......
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Even though they gave him the opportunity in the first place (which I'm sure he's very grateful for), the pit crew cost him the win - he has every right to moan at them.
 
GTPorsche
That's giving a lot of credit to drivers that most likely don't deserve it. Not all the drivers on the grid could put the Merc on the podium.
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Lol......
For sure we know Vettel could, Button could, Alonso, Kimi, Massa, Ricciardo, Max, Bottas, Romain possibly, after that I'd say most drivers could at least get top 5 in a Merc.
It isn't rocket science this guys, but if you want to believe that Lewis and Nico would still be where they are if they were in a Manor then i'll leave you to your fantasy world of la la land....
 
That isn't at all what anyone here is saying.

Anyway, no point in debating with someone that just spins the focus of it in a completely different direction.
 
dopedog
It isn't rocket science this guys, but if you want to believe that Lewis and Nico would still be where they are if they were in a Manor then i'll leave you to your fantasy world of la la land....
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Nobody has said they believe that, unless you can quote otherwise? Hint, you can't.

Part of the F1 game is to get yourself the best car - Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel, Raikkonnen, Ricciardo, ... none of those were simply gifted their drives. If you want to get to be a world champion then it's well-known that you have to get yourself into a winning position. Few people luck into it.

You might argue that Jenson Button's streak of luck was the greatest of any recent champion but then you'd have to consider on the off-hand that for the second half of the season it took raw skill in a car whose performance the competition had quickly overtaken.

To be the best you have to work with the best, you have to show fantastic performance for that to happen.
 
trustjab
I read elsewhere Hamilton made the call to stay on wets that long. Gotta hand it to him to keep them and the ULTRA SOFTS for more than 30 laps. And he had built a little gap towards the last laps. He may have been handed the lead thanks to RB's blunder, but he kept his car in the lead with huge pressure from D.R.
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Kept his car in the lead with huge pressure......c'mon, it Monaco, he barely had to defend.

Earlier in the race, Hamilton was how many seconds per lap quicker than Rosberg, but still couldn't get past? Rosberg was slow as molasses, yet was able to "defend" his position.

And at one point, Hamilton did crack under preasure, making a massive mistake under braking which sent him off the circuit - fortunate for Lewis, he went off at a place where he ended up paying zero consequemces for his mistake.

Don't get me wrong, the decision to stay on wets and then go straight to US was a gamble, and Hamilton made it work. That said, Hamilton's race overall, was good, but not great. Other than the tire gamble, there was nothing that spectacular about it.
 
TenEightyOne
Nobody has said they believe that, unless you can quote otherwise? Hint, you can't.

Part of the F1 game is to get yourself the best car - Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel, Raikkonnen, Ricciardo, ... none of those were simply gifted their drives. If you want to get to be a world champion then it's well-known that you have to get yourself into a winning position. Few people luck into it.

You might argue that Jenson Button's streak of luck was the greatest of any recent champion but then you'd have to consider on the off-hand that for the second half of the season it took raw skill in a car whose performance the competition had quickly overtaken.

To be the best you have to work with the best, you have to show fantastic performance for that to happen.
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But none of that changes the fact (it actually highlights my point) that Riccicardo would do well to remember why he is where he is. I like Dan a lot, but he needs to pop his toys back in his pram and get on with it.... switch him with Saintz and he's back aiming for top 10 finishes and Saintz is pushing for top 3's....
 
dopedog
But none of that changes the fact (it actually highlights my point) that Riccicardo would do well to remember why he is where he is. I like Dan a lot, but he needs to pop his toys back in his pram and get on with it.... switch him with Saintz and he's back aiming for top 10 finishes and Saintz is pushing for top 3's....
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Pretty sure Ricciardo will be over it by the next race and all smiles again but put anyone in his shoes, at that exact moment in time, you're going to be annoyed, it's natural human reaction. You simmer down eventually.

I can't say I've seen him still bashing the team since Sunday.
 
Samus
Pretty sure Ricciardo will be over it by the next race and all smiles again but put anyone in his shoes, at that exact moment in time, you're going to be annoyed, it's natural human reaction. You simmer down eventually.

I can't say I've seen him still bashing the team since Sunday.
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Exactly my point. Hence me saying he should remember who put him at the front in the first place is valid....


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-...strated-as-monaco-meltdown-shows-how-far-awa/

Not forgetting Max will have the engine upgrade too at some point. Max is the best driver out there and he's 18.
 
At the end of the day...Monaco was Monaco. I do hope that Hamilton is encouraged by a win and finally puts up some proper competition for Nico.
 
twitcher
Kept his car in the lead with huge pressure......c'mon, it Monaco, he barely had to defend.

Earlier in the race, Hamilton was how many seconds per lap quicker than Rosberg, but still couldn't get past? Rosberg was slow as molasses, yet was able to "defend" his position.

And at one point, Hamilton did crack under preasure, making a massive mistake under braking which sent him off the circuit - fortunate for Lewis, he went off at a place where he ended up paying zero consequemces for his mistake.

Don't get me wrong, the decision to stay on wets and then go straight to US was a gamble, and Hamilton made it work. That said, Hamilton's race overall, was good, but not great. Other than the tire gamble, there was nothing that spectacular about it.
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Why do you attempt to discredit Hamilton's effort on Sunday by saying its easy to defend, or that he was lucky? People praised Senna once for the job he did at Monaco 1992 holding off Mansell after his long pit stop, even though Senna was fully on his way to losing before Mansell pit. People remember this race fondly and would call that a brilliant defensive job, even though the track was even tighter then than now.

Yet you keep on putting an asterik on his drive saying he outbraked himself one time and is lucky there isnt a barrier there anymore. Well there isn't, and so that point is completely unnecesary and takes nothing away from his drive, especially considering he already lost time there anyway.

This was the first time I can remember a driver ever going straight from full wets to dry tyres. The characteristics of the circuit make it a bit easier to keep the wets in order as the track is gentle on the tyres, but he still kept a decent pace on a track with everyone else on the better tyre, and made it work.
 
Peter.
Why do you attempt to discredit Hamilton's effort on Sunday by saying its easy to defend, or that he was lucky? People praised Senna once for the job he did at Monaco 1992 holding off Mansell after his long pit stop, even though Senna was fully on his way to losing before Mansell pit. People remember this race fondly and would call that a brilliant defensive job, even though the track was even tighter then than now.

Yet you keep on putting an asterik on his drive saying he outbraked himself one time and is lucky there isnt a barrier there anymore. Well there isn't, and so that point is completely unnecesary and takes nothing away from his drive, especially considering he already lost time there anyway.

This was the first time I can remember a driver ever going straight from full wets to dry tyres. The characteristics of the circuit make it a bit easier to keep the wets in order as the track is gentle on the tyres, but he still kept a decent pace on a track with everyone else on the better tyre, and made it work.
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Why do some people feel the need to take everything Hamilton does and put it on a pedastle? Did you read my post? I said the gamble on tires was well played, and that Hamilton drove well. Overall though, in my opinion, it was just a good drive, not a great drive.

People praise Senna's Defense against Mansel, because Senna is God and everything he did was worthy of the highest praise. In their defense, Mansel did have the far far supperior car, which is what makes Senna's defense of Mansel more impressive that Hamimton's of Ricciardo. Also Senna never dropped 4 wheels off the circuit :P. Both cases though, as well as Hamilton's inability to pass Rosberg until let through, just illustrates how impossible it is to pass at Monaco, which to me deminishes the impressiveness of any defensive effort, from anyone.

Pretty much the only way to pass a car with similar pace at Monaco is to pressure the lead driver into a mistake. That happened, but there were no consequences for it because of the way track limits are enforced.

Anyways, we're allowed to have different oppinions on this. You can think it was an amazing spectacular drive from Lewis, I can think it was just ok.

Ridox2JZGTE
What if Rio get to drive Merc ? Will he be able to get podium ? :P
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Depends what track. Monza, or maybe even Mexico, it's not that hard to imagine.
 
Hamilton's drive was good, it wasn't anything particularly special. Obviously the main strength was his tyre/pit strategy and after that Monaco did indeed do most of the work, as did the RB mechanics. As this video shows he was struggling massively on the slicks in the last few corners, with a normal stop he'd have been 10 seconds behind.

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom...__-_Relive_Red_Bull's_pit_stop_nightmare.html

He didn't have to do that much to keep the Ultra tyres, plenty of other drivers did the same thing because clearly they were not that soft.

He did defend from Ricciardo about three or four times from memory but there wasn't really an onslaught.

He did a good job, that's all there is to say really.
 
Perez was voted driver of the day for Monaco, and he got 3rd in a car that isn't as good as last year's version was.
 
dopedog
Rio?

You could argue that drive of the day was Perez.
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Rio seems to be better than his team mate Wehrlein in terms of making soft tires last longer, and I think I read that Rio had trouble with his tires ( Ultra Soft ) that was fitted on his last pit, something being worn already ( not fresh )

Perez is great during the race, I agree, though for me to choose for driver of the day is tough, either Ricciardo or Perez, not Hamilton, he just got lucky :P
 
GTPorsche
Perez was voted driver of the day for Monaco, and he got 3rd in a car that isn't as good as last year's version was.
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Well its still got a Merc engine in it which helps put it in places it probably doesn't deserve to be.
 
twitcher
Why do some people feel the need to take everything Hamilton does and put it on a pedastle? Did you read my post? I said the gamble on tires was well played, and that Hamilton drove well. Overall though, in my opinion, it was just a good drive, not a great drive.

People praise Senna's Defense against Mansel, because Senna is God and everything he did was worthy of the highest praise. In their defense, Mansel did have the far far supperior car, which is what makes Senna's defense of Mansel more impressive that Hamimton's of Ricciardo. Also Senna never dropped 4 wheels off the circuit :P. Both cases though, as well as Hamilton's inability to pass Rosberg until let through, just illustrates how impossible it is to pass at Monaco, which to me deminishes the impressiveness of any defensive effort, from anyone.

Pretty much the only way to pass a car with similar pace at Monaco is to pressure the lead driver into a mistake. That happened, but there were no consequences for it because of the way track limits are enforced.

Anyways, we're allowed to have different oppinions on this. You can think it was an amazing spectacular drive from Lewis, I can think it was just ok.
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Fair enough. I'm no Hamilton fan; I probably wanted to cry as much as anyone in the Ferrari garage the moment he won his first title, but ive always respected his talent and ability, and probably been forced to keep up with him to some extent with my father being a huge Lewis fan.

Stretching wets out to put on dries isn't easy, and is usually a ridiculous idea that will never work, so the fact that he made it work to me puts this up there as one of his best drives, even if he needed a little help from the Red Bull pit crew to get the win. Luck was on his side, but this is probably justice for him, though not for Ricciardo, for the team costing him the win after he drove a perfect weekend last year.
 
Tired Tyres
That didn't exactly help Rosberg did it? Credit where it is due, Perez did a very good job.
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The Manor Team also have Mercedes engines and they are the slowest team on the grid, and I really don't think it's because Werlein and Haryanto are slowest drivers on the grid.
 
dopedog
Not forgetting Max will have the engine upgrade too at some point. Max is the best driver out there and he's 18.
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Bold claim there, and an unusual time to bring it up, considering how poor of a weekend he had. Since joining Red Bull there has been very little evidence to even say he's the best driver in his team.

Sure he might be better than Kyviat, but Kyviat is probably in the Liuzzi batch rather than the Vettel batch of Red Bull young driver products, and definitely lucky to have gotten the seat over Vergne in the first place.
 
GTPorsche
That's giving a lot of credit to drivers that most likely don't deserve it. Not all the drivers on the grid could put the Merc on the podium.
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True. Rosberg didn't put it on the podium ;)

twitcher
Kept his car in the lead with huge pressure......c'mon, it Monaco, he barely had to defend.

Earlier in the race, Hamilton was how many seconds per lap quicker than Rosberg, but still couldn't get past? Rosberg was slow as molasses, yet was able to "defend" his position.

And at one point, Hamilton did crack under preasure, making a massive mistake under braking which sent him off the circuit - fortunate for Lewis, he went off at a place where he ended up paying zero consequemces for his mistake.

Don't get me wrong, the decision to stay on wets and then go straight to US was a gamble, and Hamilton made it work. That said, Hamilton's race overall, was good, but not great. Other than the tire gamble, there was nothing that spectacular about it.
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If you win the race, that means your race was great. No question about it. He could have faded like his teammate and end up 7th, but he went ahead and pulled up to DR and was in the position to capitalize on any mistake. Let's not pretend his pit stop was fast either. 4+ seconds is an eternity. Merc had warm-up issues, which is why he made a 'mistake' at the chicane. It wasn't "massive" either. He kept the lead. It wasn't definitive that it would be of no consequence either, the stewards even investigated his move through the chicane and the defense against DR. Your post reads like a detractor. If you can't give him credit for his drive that's on you. Don't pretend that you're right with your opinion though.
 
GTPorsche
That's giving a lot of credit to drivers that most likely don't deserve it. Not all the drivers on the grid could put the Merc on the podium.
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Depends on the track but when they have those huge margins over the field like they have in the past (1 sec+) I think any one of them could.

The performance gaps are so huge between the cars these days that the cars are what win the races, it's then just down to the better of the 2 team mates to decide who comes first.
 
Many of the drivers in the F1 field could put that Merc on the podium.

Mind you, we have five former champions on the grid, one with four cups, one with three and one with two... two guys who've come in second in the championship a number of times, one driver who outperformed a four-time champion when they were team-mates, another who regularly outperforms the guy with the most second-places in the championship, and a bunch of GP2 and associated Formula champions.

Aside from questions about who's paying for what seat, none of these guys are what you'd call slow in any other series.

But the guys in the big name teams are often there on merit, and if Mercedes or Red Bull think it's worth the extra few million (or tens of millions) to put a guy in the seat with a 30-50% better chance of clinching that podium spot, they'll spend that money.
 
GTPorsche
Now that's a post I missed.

Max.. the best driver out there? In what universe are we talking?
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The one where we judge it on future potential, he's come into F1 at 17 and shown that you can overtake you can make F1 look exciting. I'd certainly say that we need a few more Max's out there.

If your saying Max isn't possibly the best driver out there are you saying F1 is so poor that an 18 year old can rock up and win a race?

To add i'm not a fan of any particular driver, problem is on forums theres ravaging fans of certain drivers same as you get your "PS4 is the best!!!111" "xbox 1 ROCKS!!!1111" mentalists on forums.
I say it as i see it with my opinion and Max is awesome to watch and he will be unstoppable one day, wasn't all that long ago Lewis was bumping into Massa every race weekend was it.... people have short memories.
Max is 18 he pushes limits but he's exiting to watch and seems like a nice guy with a great story and yes for me if Red Bull did well to sign him up because he has made such an impact.

And again regards drivers in certain cars etc, Bruno Senna was driving a HRT and at the back a lot, then he got drafted into Lotus at Spa and Qualified in 7th... ok so his race craft let him down in the race but on pure pace he was able to jump the grid due to the car under him.
All the teams know exactly where their car should be, Merc know it should be 1-2 in qualy, so a driver could get 5th 4th 6th 3rd and they would be failing (unless taken on as a very young hopeful).
Ri
Monaco BTW isn't a good race to judge anything on certainly not engine power anyway more so when its wet.
 
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