Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada 2011

[The Outlaw]

Besides the argument wasnt about who is "better" than who. It was about luck. And it was not "luck" that Vettel and Hamilton ended up in good teams early on in their career. Its not like he spun a wheel at Woking and ended up at McLaren. Alonso however won the proverbial lottery when he inherited his win in Bahrain 2009.

I still don't see how you can try to use this (or similar events where a bit of luck is involved) as some type of evidence to discount Alonso's ability though...as you originally had done. Alonso has had some stonking drives in his career - if you are not aware of this I don't think you have been watching Formula 1 either long enough or closely enough (or it could simply be the fact that one is a hater and rather ignore such to fuel their dislike...no disrepect though, as I'm not saying this IS the case).

By signing with Ferrari, Alonso arguably joined the most recognizable and consistently strong team in Formula 1, yet they were unable to create a car that was quite to the level of Red Bull's in 2010. Of course it was going to take a bit of luck to win at times given the fact that the Red Bull was the superior car! (something that was really out of Alonso's hands)

Also - As Alonso once said (he said this last year around mid season when things started going his way again), luck comes and goes. For example, Vettel had a lot of bad luck last year in terms of reliability issues in comparison to Webber....ironically, this season things seem to be going in the exact opposite direction, as Webber is constantly having some type of KERS issue in qualy.

Lastly, I don't see how you think Alonso is SO lucky (as it always takes some type of luck to win...whether it be relying on someone elses reliability issues, weather, or simply having a better car for that particular circuit). I mean he could have been a 4x WDC (instead he only has 2 @ 29 y.o.) had he gotten one more 2nd place instead of a 3rd in both 2007 and 2010. Hamilton has also been right up there with the best, but in 4 out of the 5 years he's been competing in F1, arguably just just hasn't had quite the equipment to seal the deal. He's probably becoming quite frustrated with this (I think we're especially seeing it this year), as he begins to watch Vettel rack up all this success so early in his career...despite the fact that he probably knows in his head he can beat Vettel given what happened in the lower Formulas.

So yes, "you make your own luck" as already quoted.

To me this statement is true to an extent, I think it is too much of a generalization. While there are certainly a lot of cases where you "you make your own luck", a lot of times luck happens to simply fall on your side. For example when the safety car came out at the last race in Monaco and allowed Vettel the cushion he needed to comfortably secure the victory. Luck simply fell on his side when Petrov hit the barrier and red flagged the race, allowing him a completely unpredicted/unplanned fresh set up rubber.

 

[ZEROX]

The weather says it might rain for the race. I've never watched any wet racing in Montreal so this could be interesting.

It's already rain in the morning.
And it's still cloudy.

Dunno if you can open this.

 

[shoeface33]

Quick note. Weather earlier in montreal was rain and all the forcasts i've read say rain and thunder for it for the rest of today and tommorow.

And just to siddle into this debate. I agree with whoever it was earlier, you do make your own luck. But the stewards dont like lewis' luck apparently. Anyone else notice that when vettle had a car about the same speed as the rest of the pack he can't/couldn't overtake without hitting people? (belgium last year) plus if you go back through old f1 season dvd's, vettle does absolutely nothing until he wins in monza in the wet which was only really because of a lucky guess to go to intermediate tyres when everyone else was on full wets (remember nico hulkenberg in brazil last year? No? Didn't think so)
He' only winning coz he has the best car. If they put d'ambrosio in that car everyone would say he was amazing and tip him to be the next world champion. If you wanna fan anyone; watch lewis for driving because he is the most entertaining driver to watch, but watch newey for designing the cars because he is the best at what he does

 

[chromatic9]

Apparently there's a track guide on the BBC with Schumacher and Coulthard that's really worth watching in the build-up.

It's raining at the moment and should be wet all day.

 

[Alex.]

Correct, it's raining. What's the betting we start under the safety car

 

[Hollidog]

I still don't see how you can try to use this (or similar events where a bit of luck is involved) as some type of evidence to discount Alonso's ability. Alonso has had some stonking drives in his career - if you are not aware of this I don't think you have been watching Formula 1 either long enough or closely enough (or it could simply be the fact that one is a hater and rather ignore such to fuel their dislike...no disrepect though, as I'm not seeing this IS the case).

Ive been watching F1 since 1998 so I like to think I know a bit about it. Easily more than anyone I know in real life. It also happens that both Button and Alonso are my least favorite drivers, because of the (what I deem to be) unrealistic amount of praise they get when there is a large amount of luck involved. I once heard that F1 is 30% car 30% engine 30% driver and 10% luck. Whereas with these two drivers I feel the luck percentage is more around 20% - 30%

By signing with Ferrari, Alonso arguably joined the most recognizable and consistently strong team in Formula 1, yet they were unable to create a car that was quite to the level of Red Bull's in 2009. Of course it was going to take a bit of luck to win at times given the fact that the Red Bull was the superior car! (something that was really out of Alonso's hands)

"Arguably" Ferrari have not produced a truly competitive car since 2008. And havent produced a dominating car since 2005. I will agree that they are the most recognisable and consistent.

Also - As Alonso once said (he said this last year around mid season when things started going his way again), luck comes and goes. For example, Vettel had a lot of bad luck last year in terms of reliability issues in comparison to Webber....ironically, this season things seem to be going in the exact opposite direction, as Webber is constantly having some type of KERS issue in qualy.

I think at least 2 out of 5 of Alonso wins can be attributed to luck. He won in Bahrain because of a plug failure from Vettels car. He won in Korea because Vettels engine blew up. And Im not sure if Alonso was behind them, But Webber also spun and took Rosberg with him, in fact Im fairly certain he was behind them. Oh and of course lets not forget the race that Ferrari literally gifted him.

Lastly, I don't see how you think Alonso is SO lucky (as it always takes some type of luck to win...whether it be relying on someone elses reliability issues, weather, or simply having a better car for that particular circuit). I mean he could have been a 4x WDC (instead he only has 2 @ 29 y.o.) had he gotten one more 2nd place instead of a 3rd in both 2007 and 2010. Hamilton has also been right up there with the best, but in 4 out of the 5 years he's been competing in F1 arguably just just hasn't had quite the equipment to seal the deal. He's probably becoming quite frustrated with this (I think we're especially seeing it this year), as he begins to watch Vettel rack up all this success so early in his career...despite the fact that he probably knows in his head he can beat Vettel given what happened in the lower Formulas.

Also the fact that the Great Alonso couldnt even pass Petrov, I mean PETROV at Abu Dhabi, was really the nail in the coffin for me. Say what you want about the scenario, but fact is, he couldnt get past. Then to make it worse he had a cry about it after the race.

 

[ZEROX]

Correct, it's raining. What's the betting we start under the safety car

Wait, it's rain. Then, no DRS?

 

[The Outlaw]

This is my last post on this matter. I'm tired of going around in circles as usual

"Arguably" Ferrari have not produced a truly competitive car since 2008. And havent produced a dominating car since 2005. I will agree that they are the most recognisable and consistent. .

And what's your point? Nor have the powerhouse Mclaren. And where was Red Bull before 2008? My point is - Fernando signed with the best team he possibly could at the time. Unfortunatley for him, they have just been a little bit off (so has just about everyone else though) in the past couple of years, due to the impressive rise of Red Bull. With that said, in recent years it has been an uphill battle to beat RB, sometimes counting on a bit of luck in order to win. I still have no clue how you conlude that because Fernando has had a bit of luck in order to win in his inferior equipment, that you can write him off as being anything less than one of the greatest drivers currently in the sport. Any team managers would tell you the same damn thing! (that Fernando is amonst the very best. Even Marc Gene, the Ferrari test driver clouts Alonso as being better than Schumacher in his prime) lmao

"I think at least 2 out of 5 of Alonso wins can be attributed to luck. He won in Bahrain because of a plug failure from Vettels car. He won in Korea because Vettels engine blew up. And Im not sure if Alonso was behind them, But Webber also spun and took Rosberg with him, in fact Im fairly certain he was behind them. Oh and of course lets not forget the race that Ferrari literally gifted him..

So what about the other 2 (not counting Germany) where he won fair and square, in what most would say was inferior equipment. Obviously it was not his talent that allowed him to achieve that result Also, it seems you only give credit or recognize a drivers talent if they win a race (yet you seemingly put aside the fact that to often win the race you must have the best car). What about all of the other results Fernando has achieved throughout his career in less than top of the shelf equipment?

Also the fact that the Great Alonso couldnt even pass Petrov, I mean PETROV at Abu Dhabi, was really the nail in the coffin for me. Say what you want about the scenario, but fact is, he couldnt get past. Then to make it worse he had a cry about it after the race.

So you've been watching F1 for ~ 13 years, yet you don't realize that overtaking Petrov in that case was basically an impossibilty due to the nature of the track, and more importantly the rather massive top speed and acceleration advantage the Renault had over the Ferrari (something you seem to be completely obvlivious to). I suggest you start getting more in tune with the deeper technicalities of the sports (or car characteristics in this case) to prevent from making such blind assumptions (as interludes has already done this weekend, by discounting Ferrari as a possible contender for victory).

 

[Alex.]

Wait, it's rain. Then, no DRS?

Correct, no DRS. I can seriously see them starting it under the Safety Car and having Lewis be the only one shouting on the radio to let them race.

 

[Prince.M5]

It's already rain in the morning.
And it's still cloudy.

Dunno if you can open this.

Well, TL is one of my friends in Facebook anyway

The sky looks dark, if that's the kind of sky in Malaysia then the condition will be raining all day long... Looks like we're set for the first wet race of the season!

 

[ZEROX]

Correct, no DRS. I can seriously see them starting it under the Safety Car and having Lewis be the only one shouting on the radio to let them race.

Lol
It would be more cool to start without safety car. But if it's dangerous, they can't say no.
Aw, well, KERS won't help that much in overtaking. Guess, this will be showing pure driver's skill. In wet.

Well, TL is one of my friends in Facebook anyway

The sky looks dark, if that's the kind of sky in Malaysia then the condition will be raining all day long... Looks like we're set for the first wet race of the season!

But i bet it won't rain hard like Malaysia did.

 

[Alex.]

It's going to be a crash fest pal there's no doubt about it. That's IF they let them race.

 

[Prince.M5]

But i bet it won't rain hard like Malaysia did.

Who knows?

So just 5 minutes ago Team Lotus posted an image of the current condition of the track. Currently there's a Porsche Supercup race and the track is drenched!

 

[TenEightyOne]

Regarding DRS in the rain... I hadn't heard about DRS being disabled during rain (presumably when the track is officially 'Wet' on the FIA display).

I've just been through the FIA's sporting and tech regs for Formula 1 and can't find any reference to that... or to DRS at all! Does anyone have a link to any FIA directives on the topic?

 

[Sohvakettu]

Can the GP2 and porsche races that precede the the actual GP be viewed through the interwebs?

Edit: I can watch the main event through BBC stream. Waiting to see a thriller after watching the epic race at Le Mans.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Considering that there's no GP2 race in Canada, I'd have to say no, it can't be viewed online.

 

[The Outlaw]

Bummer. I was hoping for a dry race where we would have a much closer on track fight torward the front, on a track where Red Bull were likely to have the least advantage over the field. Now we're left with a wet, DRS'less race which will be a big advantage to the driver out front (most likely Vettel). Luck seems to be on Vettel's side this years Fair play to him though

 

[ZEROX]

It's going to be a crash fest pal there's no doubt about it. That's IF they let them race.

That's gurentee with a little run-off track like this.

Who knows?

So just 5 minutes ago Team Lotus posted an image of the current condition of the track. Currently there's a Porsche Supercup race and the track is drenched!

My god, that's full wet.
Oh, this gonne be fun. 👍

Regarding DRS in the rain... I hadn't heard about DRS being disabled during rain (presumably when the track is officially 'Wet' on the FIA display).

I've just been through the FIA's sporting and tech regs for Formula 1 and can't find any reference to that... or to DRS at all! Does anyone have a link to any FIA directives on the topic?

There's, if i'm not mistaken, i read it on autosport about a couple of month ago...but i don't think i can search it for ya.

Can the GP2 and porsche races that precede the the actual GP be viewed through the interwebs?

Dunno about that.

 

[Ferrari_1996]

So the race is starting at 6 GMT?

 

[Ferrari_1996]

1 hour 40 minutes until the race starts!!!

 

[Alex.]

1 hour 40 minutes until the race starts!!!

Under the SC

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Regarding DRS in the rain... I hadn't heard about DRS being disabled during rain (presumably when the track is officially 'Wet' on the FIA display).

I've just been through the FIA's sporting and tech regs for Formula 1 and can't find any reference to that... or to DRS at all! Does anyone have a link to any FIA directives on the topic?

FIA bans wet movable wings use. You'll need a subscription to Autosport to be able to view it, though.

 

[Ferrari_1996]

Under the SC

Please no safety car.....Really? For how long?

 

[ZEROX]

FIA bans wet movable wings use. You'll need a subscription to Autosport to be able to view it, though.

Wait, on practice and quali. What about race?
I can't view it since i'm don't suscribe it.

 

[Alex.]

Please no safety car.....Really? For how long?

Just my prediction my friend.

Correct, no DRS. I can seriously see them starting it under the Safety Car and having Lewis be the only one shouting on the radio to let them race.

 

[daan]

So the race is starting at 6 GMT?

1 hour 40 minutes until the race starts!!!

Do you pay any attention to anything we've told you? Yet another useless post, and a double post, from you.

 

[Carlos]

Please no safety car.....Really? For how long?

If it's going to be a sc start, I hope it's just the first round.. Plus the sc can't drive that hard in the wet so all those guys tyres and brakes will cool down fast, could be interesting..

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Wait, on practice and quali. What about race?
I can't view it since i'm don't suscribe it.

Wet races as well.

 

[ZEROX]

^
I see.
The the pure overtaking is on, then.

If it's going to be a sc start, I hope it's just the first round.. Plus the sc can't drive that hard in the wet so all those guys tyres and brakes will cool down fast, could be interesting..

Or it could be worse. Delay start.

 

[Carlos]

Let's just hope theres no sc at all at the start.. I don't mind sc during the race, it'll bring all the drivers back together, crazy pitstops and all that!