Formula 1 Grand Prix du Canada 2011

[SmittMan]

Interesting Race,
Red Flags, Retirements and Restarts,
Safety Cars, Drive Through Penalties and Investigations.

Well done to Button, LOL Vettel made a mistake.

 

[happycorey]

Well Vettel finally cracked under pressure. I was really hoping to see Schumi and Kobayashi on podium, but it was definitely one of the most exciting races I have seen..

 

[Terronium-12]

Interesting race for sure, but I'm having mixed with all the safety car laps and what not. It feels like Schumacher got robbed of a podium by DRS. But I'm really happy about Button beating Vettel.

More like Schumacher was robbed of a podium because of DRS.

 

[lukecfc]

Interesting race for sure, but I'm having mixed with all the safety car laps and what not. It feels like Schumacher got robbed of a podium by DRS. But I'm really happy about Button beating Vettel.

So you don't feel as if Vettel got robbed of first place?

 

[Terronium-12]

How was Vettel robbed of first place?

 

[VEXD]

By being complacent.

That's how.

👍

 

[Submerged]

Well, Vettel wasn't "robbed" for the win, it was his to lose. Which he "lost" by not actually thinking that it was his to lose. If he had thought it was his to lose, he would have driven a lot faster to maintain his position after the safety car. And he wouldn't have been pressurised by that barnstorming drive!

One thing I will say about Vettel is that man certainly know how to do the safety car restart to maintain his position a bit too well..... That was so frustrating for me when I was watching the race as I wanted a close race at the front. Mind you, Alonso was the only driver who even got into an overtaking position to Vettel on the first safety car start. All the others, Alonso (2nd time I think), Kobayashi and Schumacher didn't quite time it that well. I was actually hoping Schumacher would activate his crafty brain for Vettel and get by him, but after the final chicane, something happened and Schumacher never saw him again...

Button....STORMING drive! Since Monaco, I could see that Button was more aware of things that were going on and attempting to make it work for him by making his own luck. That race, it came together. And awesome drive at the end! Fastest lap after fastest lap! And it really was quite nice to actually seem some fire and desire in some of the drivers when they realised that they could gain something from it.

Hammy.... Well, he obviously wasn't as dangerous as Monaco. But he doesn't seem to quite have his racing skills and his racing brain back yet. He seems to be a bit lost, actually. You could see he was totally at lost what to think when that accident happened, I believe. Hopefully after this, he will be a bit more intelligent....

Schumacher... It would actually have been nice to have seen him on the podium as he did work hard and he has shown his cunning and intelligence on the track. Plus, you could see he was showing his skill quite well there. And made some rather fast guys pretty damn ordinary.... Not bad for a 40 year old man!

 

[Tired Tyres]

Actually, When Button looked in his mirrors, Hamilton was behind him. Button took the racing line and any chances he had of seeing Hamilton were greatly decreased by the spray. As seen in Le Mans last night, it's up to the overtaking car to ensure that the manouver is safe. Hamilton could easily have lifted when he saw Button wasn't going to give the position up. He didn't. He expects people to move out of his way.

If he continues putting people in difficult positions the way he has been doing, then it's only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed. I don't like him for this very reason. He thinks he is bigger than F1 itself and doesn't play by the rules. He is a dirty driver. He is an accident waiting to happen and something's got to be done about him. He has to calm down and re-learn what battles to pick and when or someone will get hurt.

If he can't do this, he should be banned. He's starting to look like an amateur crashaholic. F1 rejects awarded him the reject of the race at Monaco. I'm sure they'll do the same here. You can flame me all you want, but he is dangerous. The past two races he's looked like a complete amateur with multiple accidents where he was either solely to blame or at least had to accept 50% of the blame. You can whine and call it racing incidents all you want, but as far as I'm concerned, there have been too many involving the same person to call them racing incidents.

I don't whine and I don't flame. I state my opinion you state yours. 👍

Don't compare the passing protocol in multi-class racing with F1. That's not about passing it's about lapping slower traffic so as not to interfere with each others race.

F1 is about 24 hyper competitive race drivers out for everything they can get. Hamilton is more aggressive that most, no question about it, but to suggest he's a fatal accident waiting to happen is not on. 👎

 

[Lizard]

Great race and congratulations to Button.
They took the:censored: with the SC though especially when the track was ready for inters.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I don't think Vettel 'cracked', to be honest.

All season we've seen him build up a margin based on target lap times, he did that again in Montreal but admitted after the race that he and the team had underestimated the pace of Button.

He had to push to match Button's lap times and it just didn't seem the Red Bull was capable of it at that stage in the race. McLaren's more conservative wet setup was really paying off for them, Red Bull's balanced approach wasn't.

It was clear over the previous lap that Vettel was hanging on for grim life and having to push harder and harder to stay ahead, the car just didn't have that much grip at the back and we saw the result!

 

[Grayfox]

Vettle made a mistake like any driver would in the wet when you have a faster car right in your mirrors.

 

[Ardius]

Lots of hating on Kobayashi in the official post-race driver quotes. Heidfeld and both Williams drivers said he caused them problems. Seemed like there were a couple others too. Slow and unpredictable seems like the main undercurrent. No love by Massa for Karthekayen (sp) either -- who apparently was the backmarker who forced Felipe off line. (The SPEED idiots thought it was a Virgin.) Alonso, on the other hand, took the high road and didn't say anything about Button. He chalked the whole day up to bad luck. Smart move, that.

Hating? Thats an interesting way of reading those quotes, as I don't see any drivers complaining about Kobayashi, only explaining why they had misfortunte in their races.
Heidfeld, Barrichello, Rosberg and Maldonado's quotes sound like they were gutted because of the end result and explaining what happened. Not "damn that Kobayashi, he's a menace!". Rosberg even mentions how his incident was similar to when Sutil rammed him up the backside too (suggesting he understood how his contact with Kobayashi happened, not due to anyone's particular fault.)

No, those quotes are not comments on Kobayashi's talent or anything like that. I think most of the drivers appreciate he was sometimes slower in corners because he was running onto the wet parts of track and making his own mistakes. It probably doesn't help that the Sauber doesn't have an off-throttle blown diffuser for the corners or that its a lot slower in cold, dry conditions than almost all the cars it was fighting today.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Quite right, Kobayashi seems to be out performing that 'non-blown' car right now.

It will be interesting to see how the cars handle from Silverstone onwards with the 10% off-throttle throttle limit (if that makes sense ).

 

[Ardius]

Just watched a delayed version of the race, and I know there are a lot of 'omg lol that was a great race lol' people, but that was a putrid advert for F1 to the neutral N/A observer tuning in the for the first time:

1) Safety Car start? Are they the world's best drivers or sunday amateurs? Go watch Motogp at Silverstone to see how you should earn your keep.

2) Two 1-time world champions getting together (team mates on top of it), followed by a double WC getting together with a 1-time WC. I was waiting for the 'dada-tish'.

3) Endless nurfs (under safety cars?!), bumps, lost wings, cut chicanes...I can see how a new watcher might wonder what all the fuss is about.

4) Fat stewards falling (repeatedly) on track, in front of advancing racecars?! You are kidding me.

I don't know about that, of course mine and your view of it isn't necessarily going to be a "neutral" view (or even an American view). So I won't claim to know that.
But I don't think the casual viewer watching for the first time will be overly disgusted or anything with those points, more bemused probably than anything. The exciting race we had is what matters - those that are going to watch more races will have enjoyed that and those that don't think much of F1 because of fat stewards and monsoon wet conditions stopping racing are not really in the right mindset to be watching more F1 races.
If a casual viewer can't look past those points, then they were never going to fall in love with F1 anyway.

Also, you have to be joking about MotoGP...why do people keep going "those amateurs", "are the drivers cowards?" and "real men would have restarted in those conditions"? This is nothing to do with people being cowards.
Clearly you don't understand anything about the words "aquaplaning" and "visibility". There are very serious and very good reasons why they did not restart the race. Silverstone was nothing like the conditions in Montreal and was completely different circumstances (really, comparing bikes to F1 cars?).

Again, if a neutral viewer cannot understand when the commentator explains "they aren't going to restart because of fears of aquaplaning and visibility", then they were never going to be watching this sport for long anyway. If the commentators didn't explain this, then thats not really a problem with F1 and more with whichever broadcaster you watch, because this really should have been explained to stop comments such as these.

 

[Touring Mars]

I dunno either... the fat stewards falling over was a highlight of the weekend for me The incident during the race when the guy fell flat on his kipper with an F1 car coming straight for him caused me to swear out loud in amazement... and infront of my Mum too

I think it was a good advert for the sport - unpredictable, enthralling (eventually) and an amazing finish. F1, as we all know, isn't always as entertaining, but the Canadian GP had almost everything - frustration, farce, belly laugh moments, tension and excitement...

 

[Ardius]

I dunno, I laughed after I knew he was alright . It was a bit heart-in-mouth when Kobayashi was coming right at him (and then Petrov too!).
I don't really know what those marshalls were thinking trying to clear debris with only 10 second intervals between the cars? Surely they should wait till they have been picked up by the safety car?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't really know what those marshalls were thinking trying to clear debris with only 10 second intervals between the cars? Surely they should wait till they have been picked up by the safety car?

The safety car took a while to pick up the leader. They probably thought the field was strung out enough that they had more time, and that they could clear the debris quickly enough that the safety car would not have to stay out much longer.

 

[Ardius]

Probably, but as we saw, very optimistic.

 

[poolhaas]

I kinda laughed a little seeing Alonso stuck on the kerb trying to get away, I know I shouldn't or was there more damage to the car?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I kinda laughed a little seeing Alonso stuck on the kerb trying to get away, I know I shouldn't or was there more damage to the car?

I think he was just beached! If he hadn't got stuck on the kerb he'd have backed into the wall though, I guess it was a lose-lose situation.

The stewards felt that as he was on an 'out lap' Button was on an established line, Alonso hasn't said too much about the incident. The interesting upshot of that is (in my opinion) that Alonso seems to be maturing - now I just want Ferrari to give him a car that matches his overall talent.

 

[Mike Rotch]

This is nothing to do with people being cowards.
Clearly you don't understand anything about the words "aquaplaning" and "visibility".

As I watched a rebroadcast, I didnt know there was a 2 hr gap in the race due to monsoonal rain.

However, how the MotoGP were able to start their race in rain and standing water, with less contact patch to work with and equally poor visibility and the GP guys had to get a pacecar start, is still not clear to me.

 

[Ardius]

Silverstone = big wide track, lots of run off.
Bikes = generally fall over (not normal for them to crash or spin like a car) and go off the track.
As I've said in the other thread, I don't know all that much about bikes, but I would have thought they are easier to control in standing water when they don't rely on aero and extremely low ride heights, etc.

Montreal = very narrow track in some places, close barriers, not a lot of run off.
F1 cars = generally spin or crash and with the barriers so close will almost certainly stop in the middle of the track.
The drivers are not going to be able see anything and could spin through no fault of their own and have a big accident. Then the following drivers are either going to aquaplane as well trying to avoid the accidents or not see the accident because of the spray.

In F1 we could/would have seen a huge accident, potentially fatal. Whereas in MotoGP I imagine the chances of that are a little less (though fatalities are much more likely).

 

[TenEightyOne]

As I watched a rebroadcast, I didnt know there was a 2 hr gap in the race due to monsoonal rain.

However, how the MotoGP were able to start their race in rain and standing water, with less contact patch to work with and equally poor visibility and the GP guys had to get a pacecar start, is still not clear to me.

Your presumption that the visibility is 'equally poor' is, according to several F1 drivers (including Damon Hill, a highly competitive motorcyclist) incorrect.

You're also underestimating the differences between the new, modern, purpose built Silverstone Arena 11 circuit and the Montreal circuit - a high-speed 'street' style circuit with virtually no run-off areas.

As I replied in the thread you set up to specifically discuss this issue; starting the pack under the safety car was frustrating but necessary. Starting a pack of cars on a 135mph lap on a tight street circuit with standing water that was deeper than the tread depth would have been very dangerous.

The likelihood of a serious accident occuring would have been very high - and we've seen the kind of accident that you can have there in the dry, let alone in the wet.

 

[daan]

However, how the MotoGP were able to start their race in rain and standing water, with less contact patch to work with and equally poor visibility and the GP guys had to get a pacecar start, is still not clear to me.

A MotoGP bike doesn't clear anywhere near as much water from the track that an F1 car will.

The wet tyre has a tread depth of five millimetres and is able to cope with a level of standing water of up to five millimetres before aquaplaning sets in. One of Pirelli’s wet tyres will clear up to 60 litres of water per second at 300kph, meaning that a Formula One car at full speed will clean up 240 litres of water per second

From here

A MotoGP bike will do a miniscule fraction of that.

Canada typically has a 1st/2nd corner accident due to the short run to the first corner and the tightness of that turn, so i think the safety car start was the right choice. We don't want a huge accident at the start with only 6 cars making it through the carnage, now do we?

 

[F1Addict]

Canada typically has a 1st/2nd corner accident due to the short run to the first corner and the tightness of that turn, so i think the safety car start was the right choice. We don't want a huge accident at the start with only 6 cars making it through the carnage, now do we?

We might've seen something similar to Spa 1998.

 

[Hollidog]

Pretty strange race really.

Vettel made what may have been a small mistake in the dry (perhaps only a lock up, not sure as I didnt see a good enough camera angle to make up my mind on it).

Schumacher and Kobayashi both drove beyond the limits of their cars, especially considering where their team mates finished. Speaking of Kobayashis team mates, Pedro De La Rosa's initials are PDLR, which look to me like the could spell out P DeaLeR.

I quite enjoyed Hiedfelds park in between the barriers, I think if the car was in a good enough condition (only looked like minor impact, similar to one we saw in Quali yesterday, who it was I forget though), he should have rammed it down 4 gears and turned it out of there. Had to laugh at Brundle when he said that Hiedfelds car "digested its own front wing". And of course at the marshall who fell over. Looks like he went and got on the piss when the race was red flagged.

Buttons team made a lot of calls in that race, and law of averages dictated that they would get at least one right. Kobayashi played it relatively conservatively strategy wise instead of risking like how Sauber usually do, and it almost worked out for them. People attributing luck to Vettels pit stop timings must not also forget that both Kobayashi and Massa were equally advantaged by the scenario. Kobayshi just chose to stay out.

 

[Peter.]

What. A. Race.

Sepctacular job by Jenson, his best ever win, and one of the best drives to victory i've ever seen. That's a Mansell-esque drive. And he thankfully prevented us from having to see the annoying finger for the 6th time. Also what a brilliant job by Schumacher, drove his way up to 2nd, but the faster cars came along and took back their places ,and he ends 4th, still, he showed those noobs how it's done . Also great job by Kobayashi, sad that he couldn't get a podium, but I think we may see him in a new car next year (watch out Vettel )

Honourable mention to HRT, equalling their best ever finish of 13th and 14th, securing a place ahead of Virgin in the WCC, yet again. Lotus, watch out

 

[Matti_Dude]

Great race, Jenson drove an awesome race, easily his best one yet. He was just flying, I thought he might have lost it when he overtook Mark on the damp section of the track but he held it together. It's nice to see somebody beat Vettel again. As for the safety car, I think it was a tough call to decide whether to start the race normally or not, but they then preceded to follow the safety car around for an unnecessary amount of laps when it should have gone in at the end of the first lap. Then it happened again under the restart, the track was so dry by the time the safety car went in that people were switching straight on to intermediates which just showed what a poor decision it was to keep the SC out.

 

[livemusic]

Great race, too bad I missed part of it. Two hours after the race started our broadcaster switched to a football match for the national championship, as normally the race would be over by then. The match ended and they switched back to F1 so I was able to watch the last five laps or so. That's how long this race was!

 

[Grayfox]

A MotoGP bike doesn't clear anywhere near as much water from the track that an F1 car will.

A MotoGP bike will do a miniscule fraction of that.

Plus with a bikes curved tire it has less chances of hydroplaneing.