Formula 1 Großer Preis Santander Von Deutschland 2012

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by ghskilla, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. Bye Ya

    Bye Ya

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    I feel the same way, as long as the stewards discipline the use of the run off areas for an advantage. Not just with Vettel, but there were cars putting all 4 tires off several times during the race, and that should not be allowed.
     
  2. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

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    Vettel being demoted to 3rd is a punishment, had he let Jensen pass he could have passed him cleanly afterwards, 20 seconds is too harsh (I am not a fan boy) but after all the hard work in qualy and the whole race punishing him from 2nd to fifth isn't fair.
     
  3. Rub1nho

    Rub1nho

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    I'm con. I really wonder why the worlds top motorsports discipline need run-off strips on which you can land a freakin 747. These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world yet an 8 metres wide track isn't enough?
    No of those Tilke abominations deserves to be an F1 track imho, they lack any of the charm or challenge of the 'vintage' tracks like Monaco, Montreal, Monza, Albert Park or Spa (and even that one they ****ed up now...).
    No wonder I'm more drawn towards Nascar and Australian Supercars nowadays...
     
  4. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    It seems ridiculous now that so much time is spent searching for penalties for the slightest of offences. A lot of the drivers have said they loved Karting because it was just racing, no politics, no stringent regulations, just sport and entertainment. Formula 1 has gotten to point where it has become far too political, and is a huge business venture. At the end of the day, it is a sport, it is their to entertain the masses, and their is nothing entertaining about costing someone three places because they happened to be a few inches off track when they passed someone they were clearly faster than.
     
  5. GTPorsche

    GTPorsche

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    If it was earlier in the race, he would have received a drive-thru penalty and still lose about 20 seconds, so how is it not fair?
     
  6. hawkeye122

    hawkeye122

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    So what if he worked hard? Look at any other sport. You work hard in Soccer/Football practice all season, go to a match and get a red card.

    "But thats not fair! He worked really hard!"

    Yeah, it doenst work like that. He cheated, therefore he gets punished- no matter how hard he worked.
     
  7. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    Yet, if Hamilton was to pull off a similar move to deny Sebastian Vettel the World Championship at the end of the season, would it still be so entertaining?

    Besides, Vettel wasn't 'inches' off track - he was practically in Austria.
     
  8. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    If he performed a similar move then chances are he'd be penalised too and then have his second championship taken away from him.
     
  9. SilverArrow

    SilverArrow

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    Some of the run off are for the benefit of other racing series, in DTM for example they run completely off the track after turn 1 as their normal line.
     
  10. dhandeh

    dhandeh Premium

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    http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/400x/22130283.jpg
     
  11. Centura

    Centura Premium

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    It depends on the track. You would only lose around 12 seconds in Hockenheim.
     
  12. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    I'll admit it's a bit of an exaggeration, but before he officially left the track his front wing would have only been a few inches behind Button's. It seems way too close to warrant a 20-second penalty
     
  13. dhandeh

    dhandeh Premium

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    I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.
     
  14. Nessy

    Nessy

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    I'm glad to see Vettel got what he deserved :D. Was it a bit too harsh?... maybe, but remember the precedent for questionable harsh penalties has already been set (ie: Hamilton qually a few races ago), so really i'm glad to see the consistency from the stewards for once... though will it stop me from moaning about the stewards decisions in the future, when it comes to my favourite drivers being called to account?... No!, probably not. :lol:
     
  15. SilverArrow

    SilverArrow

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    Mixed weekend for Kimi...
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    Yes, but you cannot overtake by gaining an advantage off-track. Vettel was able to get on the throttle sooner than Button, but he was marginally behind on track. In order to stay within the track boundaries, Vettel would have had to lift to avoid a collision, therefore Button would have retained the place (at least for that section of track). The incident (in the eyes of the rules) is no different to if he had cut a corner to gain the place.
     
  17. DaxCobra

    DaxCobra

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    ^ This picture makes no sense...
     
  18. dhandeh

    dhandeh Premium

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    It makes perfect sense, when Kimi is involved.
     
  19. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    To stay on the track he would have to:

    a) hit the throttle later because the corner would be tighter without the runoff use;

    b) lift it enough to avoid a collision.

    Going outside of the track, he didn't need to do either of those.

    I think Martin Brundle explains it very well:

     
  20. Ardius

    Ardius

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  21. Bye Ya

    Bye Ya

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    Could easily have broken his neck there.
     
  22. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

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    If this and other tracks didn't have a good run off area in some places, half the field would go off or crash, 1/4 of them in lap 1.

    And these tracks are not used solely for the "creme de la creme" racing drivers. Several competitons are held in these tracks, and even within F1, well... not gonna name drivers but... there are some "incident prone" peolpe out there every race.

    That is why I favour run-OFF areas that allow drivers not to slide through grass into the tyre bank, or get stuck in gravel traps, and instead manage to rejoin the race in one piece.

    Key word being run-OFF areas. Not alternative outside slingshot bits of track to allow rejoining at high speed and gaining an advantage.

    Be that this one that has no business being there on the exit of a slow corner or other ones that must be there at exit of high speed corners. The point is to have room to go OFF, get the car under control, rejoin safely. Not to allow a path to floor it and go round the outside.
     
  23. Blaze_409

    Blaze_409

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    lololololololol. So Typical!
     
  24. niky

    niky Moderator

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    At least it was just a Hyundai... :D

    -

    Basically, Brundle has it right. The overhead shots tell the whole story. Vettel didn't take a line that he could make the outside on, he was clearly aiming for an exit on the run-off. I.E.: he didn't understeer off the track, he wasn't pushed off, he was steering straight for the run-off just past the apex, where Button was still giving him half a track to work with.

    -

    I've stated my opinion on run-off before. It's there for a good reason. Leave it be. Gravel traps and close-up tire walls may be entertaining for you, but they aren't funny for the guys who are banging wheels out on the track. The only thing wrong here is that run-off area is too long. It should arc back into the track much sooner, given that it's a hairpin



    :lol:
     
  25. FahrerGott

    FahrerGott

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    Prime photoshop material
    I thought he was base jumping when I first saw it!
     
  26. Grand Prix

    Grand Prix Premium

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    Wait, people took Patrick the Starfish's gravel trap suggestion seriously?

    :lol:


    I'll make this very clear then.

    The tarmac run-off before the apex = OK (not OK for brake failures, but whatever, you guys think it's safe for the most part so I'll leave you be [​IMG])

    The tarmac run-off after the apex = not OK. Put grass there. Seriously. It's been the standard type of run-off for years, for a pretty good reason. If drivers try to take advantage of running off track, it serves as a natural and immediate punishment. It also makes it easier to see where the track boundary is, so you can get a feel for the corner. Anyone who has driven on an airport or parking lot race track knows how awkward it feels at first. If there is grass the driver will sub-consciously avoid it, unless they are a total :censored: :lol:
     
  27. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

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    Abit.off topic here but I was watching Highlights of the le.mans race the past year if i remember an Audi overtook a Pug using the grass, was this overtake legal or do different rules apply,thanks in advance
     
  28. Dodzzz

    Dodzzz

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    No, demoted to 3rd isn't a punishment, it's like taking back the money from a caught bankrobber and let him go unpunished. Soon the bank robber will try to rob again. :sly:


    It IS sport. Vettel's move was unsporting behaviour, so the penalty was perfectly appropriate for a SPORT. It's a few inches off track but it was clearly intended, to gain advantage over his opponent (Jenson) and that's unacceptable for a sport.
     
  29. Blaze_409

    Blaze_409

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    I dont think thats how it occured. He wasn't thinking beforehand that he was going to pass Button off the track.

    I think he realized the Red Bull is down on straight line speed. Penultimate lap. And Button defended the inside heavily.

    He was on the outside thinking about it and only when he got to the outer Apex did he just say F it I'm going to use the off track. He knew that he coudnt just drive the car on the curbs without spinning and he was very impatient but it certainly wasn't his intention from the very beginning.. He just got desperate. Too bad he didnt make a better decision.
     
  30. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Le Mans is run under different rules to Formula 1.