Formula 1 MSC Cruises Grande Prêmio de São Paulo 2025

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jimlaad43
  • 239 comments
  • 8,174 views
That was an awesome race....unless you are a Ferrari fan.

Max is freaking unbelievable fomt the pit to p3. And Kimi....well done mate.
Norris, this championship is now yours to lose. Great drive!!!
 
That's a huge trophy 😮

24 and 49 points to Oscar and Max respectively.
Surely Lando had this now with only 3 races to go.
 
Last edited:
He can do a Nico and afford second every race and still bag it surely? (Unless we have sprints remaining).
 
Oh wow, didn't notice Red Bull overtaking Ferrari in the WCC by 4 points, with Max doing a bit over 93% of the heavy lifting.
 
Last edited:
On balance, that was a good race to watch. This particular time, I was watching it in a pub here in Slovakia but without any audio so I was relying on the cameraman to keep me entertained.

Exemplary performance by Norris, he's looking ever closer to the title despite my feelings on the two McLaren drivers individually. Another disappointing race for El Nano, can only hope Newey has a trick up his sleeve up his sleeve next year; this year was written off a long time ago.
 
Stewards decision on Piastri

At the Safety Car restart on Lap 6, Car 81 (Oscar Piastri) attempted to overtake Car 12 (Kimi Antonelli) on the inside of Turn 1. In doing so, PIA did not establish the required overlap prior to and at the apex, as his front axle was not alongside the mirror of Car 12, as defined in the Driving Standard Guidelines for overtaking on the inside of a corner.

PIA locked the brakes as he attempted to avoid contact by slowing, but was unable to do so and made contact with ANT. This contact caused ANT to make secondary contact with Car 16 (Charles Leclerc), who was positioned on the outside and was forced to retire from the race as a result.

PIA was therefore wholly responsible for the collision. A 10-second time penalty and 2 penalty points are considered appropriate and consistent with recent precedents.
 
Stewards decision on Piastri

Opportunistic move for sure, but in the moment I thought some restart leniency could have been applied.
I guess they also took the outcome into account. Which tbh is fair enough.
 
Piastri thought he was far enough alongside and shouldn’t have had to back out. Leclerc said Antonelli should’ve given Piastri more space.

I think they’re all racing to the wrong guidelines and need to check the current rulebook (or talk to Max, it’s how he’s always raced).
 
Piastri thought he was far enough alongside and shouldn’t have had to back out. Leclerc said Antonelli should’ve given Piastri more space.

I think they’re all racing to the wrong guidelines and need to check the current rulebook (or talk to Max, it’s how he’s always raced).

My first thought was “max would have gotten away with it” which tbh would probably have pi**** me off.
 
Last edited:
Piastri had to go for the move ultimately, Yeah Kimi could have offered more space and the racing guidelines suck but, it is what it is.

Piastri needs luck on his now as well as talent. This is Norris' title to lose now.
 
Piastri thought he was far enough alongside and shouldn’t have had to back out. Leclerc said Antonelli should’ve given Piastri more space.

I think they’re all racing to the wrong guidelines and need to check the current rulebook (or talk to Max, it’s how he’s always raced).
Yeh, I think Max wouldn't have bothered to try to back out he would have put front wheels to wheels to be ahead at apex and just push the other car off track. He would be fine with that because he is still the sensationalism darling of the sport - and seems to be the reason the rules get tweaked to allow moving under braking, and this whole "ahead at the apex" logic.

If Oscar tried this, then I would expect 100% penalty for forcing a driver off track.

Going to start a rumour Jamie Chadwick just got fired from her commentary job. Excellently articulated very logical the reasons the penalty was extremely harsh.

LeClerc was fired off the track and similarly shared his opinion that Antonelli was at fault.

Piastri was cadence braking and maintained position with his inside tyre over the inside edge of the track until after the contact.

It is clear Antonelli failed to leave space on the inside, he was defending and a car on inside had earned the space before or at the apex.

It is clear that Piastri never lost control of his car, he exceeded grip limit on one corner but not the other three and the car was still in control.

F1 stewards this year having an absolute shocker of a season. Consider the penalty for Max in Spain was a 10 second penalty.
Piastri's championship is in trouble. That engine failure by Norris in Zandvoort is making this title be closer than it should be as we head to the end of the season.
If you are going to bring up Zandvoort as unlucky for Lando you should also give credit to where things have fallen his way:
  • Australia he made similar mistake running off and was lucky to keep control returning to track and easily could have been swapped with Piastri.
  • Imola he was not as quick and on alternate strategy that ended up being a massive advantage and gaining him points.
  • Hungary similar alternate strategy became lucky advantage.
  • Austria had track position but was struggling "I need pace, help please!" I have never heard such a desperate plea from a "championship contender" and never heard a team coaching such a driver to specific apex guides to help them defend from their team mate.
  • Silverstone was lucky that Piastri got the penalty for the safety car restart.
  • Monza was lucky the team swapped position after their pitstop mistake.
  • Singapore optimistic aggressive clumsy overtake caused collision lucky no damage and advantage position.
  • Brazil Sprint Norris runs wide in T2 has car vacuums water out of puddles onto the line and Piastri spins on it.
  • Brazil dubious stewarding penalty cost Piastri points.

Yes, it is clearly Norris's championship to lose. For as much as Zandvoort could have cost 18points, only the slightest changes in events could easily have Norris finishing second in Zandvoort and still be at a significant points deficit to Piastri.

Edit: added Brazil Sprint as it was lucky for Norris he was wide enough his tyres went around the puddle, and the onboard from Antonelli shows the spray that distributed water over an area that would have contributed to Piastri spinning.
 
Last edited:
a car on inside had earned the space before or at the apex.
This is the fundemental point for this incident and other similar ones this year.

You can't just be alongside approaching the corner - you specifically have to have your wheels alongside the mirrors of the car on the outside to earn the right to the corner, and specifically at the apex of the corner. Otherwise the car on the outside can do what they want (as Kimi did) and if you hit them it's your fault.


It appears that Piastri did get far enough alongside at one point but not at the apex, the only point that currently matters. With these current rules if you make a move down the inside you have to be sure you'll be ahead at the apex or you'll get pinged. Come off the brakes as Max frequently does, be ahead at the apex and overshoot to the outside of the track.


Same for the Lawson/Bearman incident in the sprint - due to the driving standards guidelines the focus for the inside car is entirely on whether they can maintain position alongside the mirrors of the outside car:

Video evidence from circuit cameras and onboard footage did not clearly establish whether the front axle of Car 30 was at least momentarily alongside the rear-view mirror of Car 87 prior to the apex, let alone whether this overlap was maintained at the apex – as would be required under the Driving Standards Guidelines for an overtaking car on the inside to be entitled to racing room.
 
Last edited:
With Ferraris dismal weekend contrasting with their WEC success, John Elkann has publicly criticised Charles and Lewis.

 
With Ferraris dismal weekend contrasting with their WEC success, John Elkann has publicly criticised Charles and Lewis.


A take so hot it needs its own fire department.
 
if you hit them it's your fault.
In my opinion, this is the fundamental mistake by the stewards.

Antonelli hit Piastri.

The onboard video you linked shows it clearly that the front of Antonelli's rear tyre hit the rear of Piastri's front tyre.

Piastri's car was in control and throughout the situation from when they were side by side was always moving relatively away from Antonelli and to avoid possible contact.

Antonelli could have left just 40cm more gap on the inside and he would have swung around the outside of Piastri and held position.

It is ironic that if Piastri just used less brakes and kept his front wheels along side Antonelli and just shoved him across the track it would have been better? It likely would have been a bigger contact between Antonelli and LeClerc and they might have both been out of the race.. And there still would have been a penalty because Piastri is not Verstappen.

It appears that Piastri did get far enough alongside at one point but not at the apex, the only point that currently matters. With these current rules if you make a move down the inside you have to be sure you'll be ahead at the apex or you'll get pinged. Come off the brakes as Max frequently does, be ahead at the apex and overshoot to the outside of the track.
I just don't understand the whole "at the apex, the only point that currently matters"...

The driver on the inside if they get alongside approaching the breaking point has earned the right to the inside line of the corner for most of the history of motorsports as far as I know. It's just common sense, I don't think it ever needed to be written into rules as it is mostly based on laws of physics.

The "ahead at the apex" as far as I can tell is a new thing for the situation that the driver on the inside is not along side approaching the corner but dives in deep. This was a new rule making malarkey for the facilitation, allowance, justifificatio of sensationalism (Verstappen) passes - specifically I think it was invented by the stewards at the US Grand Prix at Austin.

The stewards have now added this "prior to and" wordage in there to allow them to selectively apply the apex rule to a penalise a driver that already earned the point to the corner.

There's caveats that a driver can't get along side and then run a driver off track etc etc... but that is not the situation, it is clear Piastri was always going to be able to make the corner.. he was clearly trying to avoid contact...

It is a total stitch up, same sort to shenanigans that race director at Silverstone didn't broadcast safety car ending message until the cars were accelerating on Hangar straight with only 1 corner before safety car leaves the track.

-

I will still take Le Clerc's opinion as the most important as he was involved and the victim and he could see it was Antonelli's fault.

The steward are allowed to get it wrong. Fans don't need to justify the stewards getting it wrong. I don't even care if the stewards make blatantly biased decisions - it's just comedy at this point.
 
With Ferraris dismal weekend contrasting with their WEC success, John Elkann has publicly criticised Charles and Lewis.

"In Bahrain, we won the World Endurance Championship title. When Ferrari is united, we get results."

Well in that case, maybe the F1 team should bring in AF Corse to help run it as well.
 
Ferrari are so stuck in their ways, maybe they should shut up & listen to who actually drives the car & listen to feedback, the only reason they won with Schumacher is because he demanded things & the only reason they won with Kimi is because he didn't listen or care.

They didn't listen to Vettel either but at least he tried, the team need a restructure.
 
Last edited:
I already have a feeling Lewis won't stick around past 2026 regardless of what happens, and probably the only reason Leclerc hasn't started looking elsewhere is that Ferrari is offering him the best pay package right now.
 
I already have a feeling Lewis won't stick around past 2026 regardless of what happens, and probably the only reason Leclerc hasn't started looking elsewhere is that Ferrari is offering him the best pay package right now.

I agree with Lewis, the 2026 ruleset has to come back to his strengths otherwise he will 100% be gone. I mean I'd love to see him have a tilt at WEC with Ferrari but that's extraordinarily unlikely.

Leclerc on the other hand, adoration for Ferrari will only go so far with him, it wouldn't shock me if he was talking to other teams already for 2027, especially if the '26 car is a dog or there aren't some fundamental changes to how Ferrari operate. I can sense a Leclerc-Piastri swap in the future.
 
Ferrari blames both drivers in a weekend where one got into a lap one skirmish and the other was wrecked in an incident he was an unfortunate victim of? Sounds like the chairman has a case of "Ferrari race strategy" too.
 
Last edited:
Ferrari blames both drivers in a weekend where one got into a lap one skirmish and the other was wrecked in an incident he was an unfortunate victim of? Sounds like the chairman has a case of "Ferrari race strategy" too.
...praising the WEC team which isn't run by Ferrari and probably the main reason to their success besides BoP-presents
 
Watched and listened to a few analyses now and my opinion is that the 10 second penalty against Piastri was complete BS.

He's really been unlucky in quite a few situations now.

That said I still think he got away something in the Austin sprint there.

Firstly because he also took out his main rival, but also secondly because I still think a penalty was in the cards.

So maybe it all levels out.

I just don't want Oscar's season to end on a really sour note because he's been so brilliant for much of it.

At least one more win for him please.
 
1762984544522.webp
 
I personally don't care if Ferrari never wins a race ever again and it's always entertaining to see them fail, but John Elkann is a nepo cancer that needs to go.
 
Watched and listened to a few analyses now and my opinion is that the 10 second penalty against Piastri was complete BS.
It is well reasoned that the stewards got it very wrong.
He's really been unlucky in quite a few situations now.
True that.
That said I still think he got away something in the Austin sprint there.

Firstly because he also took out his main rival, but also secondly because I still think a penalty was in the cards.
Seriously, I can't comprehend how there could possible be a penalty on Piastri.

If anything it could be: "car 27 wasn't significantly alongside at prior to and at the apex" so he gets the penalty according to Brazil steward logic. The reason that might also be valid in this case is he did not make 100% action to avoid collision like Piastri did in Brazil, and in addition he had been given more than a car width unlike the Brazil incident.

It was a racing incident 100%.

Norris gets away with zero blame while it was his bad start and then braking shenanigans that significantly contributed to it kicking off.

Norris is the reason the others were so close and got involved.

Norris's late braking and lack of turn in to the corner was shepherding Piastri off track to have to back off on the outside and lost positions. Cut back was the best logical option, and he was no where near the apex, there was plenty of room for another car on the inside.. If Norris turned toward the apex then there would have been room for Piastri to follow him. Piastri was ahead before the corner and might have tried to go around the outside but he would have been pushed off track and copped a penalty if not giving away points because he would have not been ahead at the apex due to the shape of the corner.

Hulkenberg was way too hot in and no where near alongside Piasti. Piastri left room for a car on the inside and if it was only Hulkenberg he would have just turned on the inside.

If Hulkenberg was allowing space for Alonso and avoiding hitting him, then he should have been stayed heavy on the brake and not driven into the car ahead.

It's mostly on Hulkenberg and almost a penalty because he is the main guy that could have avoided it. I would put 80~90% (edited) Hulkenberg, a bit more on Norris than the others for instigating the situation - nothing any close to any penalty as he "did nothing wrong" by rules, just not great racing, it was a mistake of a poor start, then he made a chess move to try to put Piastri in a position of disadvantage and it backfired.

Edit: it might not have been a chess move, it might have just been a mistake by Norris to not try to take the corner anywhere near the apex. That mistake is the reason he was still in the corner and became collateral damage in the Hulk smash Piastri accident.

Piastri didn't take out his main rival, he was just taken out.


So maybe it all levels out.
Maybe, but it has a long way to go to level out because despite Norris's bad luck with Zandvoort, Piastri has had it far worse.
I just don't want Oscar's season to end on a really sour note because he's been so brilliant for much of it.

At least one more win for him please.
I would say three more wins for him please :p
 
Last edited:
Piastri isn't that long in F1 but if there's a track he shines regularly it's Qatar. He won both Sprint '23 + '24 and finished 2nd and 3rd in the GPs, always in front of Norris.
 
Back