Formula 1 Off Season, Launches and Testing thread 2019-20Formula 1

[AshenGraey]

Currently on episode 5 of drive to survive. It’s better than the first season, I’m really liking it. You don’t need to be an F1 newbie to enjoy it. It focuses on the human element of the sport.

I just finished it today. It really is better than the first season. That being said, I wished they'd do an episode for each of the team over the length of the whole season rather than focusing on a select few drivers based on the biggest highlights/drama that took place over the season. Either way, 2020 is poised to be one of the biggest year in F1 based on the current hype, if it really delivers, the 3rd season might be even better.

On a side note, now that testing is over, anyone has any predictions for the 2020 season? As much as I want to see Mercedes clinch another record breaking championship with Lewis not only matching Schumacher's 7 titles and beating his record race wins, I don't think they will be as dominant as they were last year. I'm thinking it's not going to be about just the top 3 teams, we might see some of the midfielders taking some podiums or even win races and the championship decided in Abu Dhabi.....I can't wait for the season to start and I'm shaking with excitement

 

[Veinz]

For me its Mercedes, Red Bull with Ferrari in no mans land. The rest is too hard to say because the mid field is always competitive. Haas and Williams seem like they will be ones fighting for scraps though.

Mercedes are a machine, no one can stop them with these regulations. They will be up there in 2021 as well.

 

[ThePotatoKing]

On a side note, now that testing is over, anyone has any predictions for the 2020 season? As much as I want to see Mercedes clinch another record breaking championship with Lewis not only matching Schumacher's 7 titles and beating his record race wins, I don't think they will be as dominant as they were last year. I'm thinking it's not going to be about just the top 3 teams, we might see some of the midfielders taking some podiums or even win races and the championship decided in Abu Dhabi.....I can't wait for the season to start and I'm shaking with excitement

I think it's gonna be a really close battle between Mercedes and Redbull this year with Leclerc also competing for race wins, but apart from that, Ferrari doesn't seem to be capable of posing a challenge for the title. Mayyyybe McLaren could be taking a win or two but they will be the team to beat in the midfield nonetheless(Or Racing Point, if the whole ordeal with the discount W10 actually works out).

The rest of the midfield looks to be closer than ever. Even Williams seems capable of scoring well, so it's really difficult to ascertain who will come out on top.

 

[twitcher]

Anyone know more details about what could potentially happen to the season of the Italian based teams are unable to participate in either the whole season, or specific rounds?

I’ve read that if less than 16 cars start the race, the race does not count as a championship round. So if Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Haas, or even Alpha Tauri cannot participate in a race, would the whole race be called off?

That seems to put an awful lot of power in the hands of a few teams. I realize that there are rules written, but rules can be changed. With all the money that teams have invested in the 2020 season, and with the potential for participating teams to move up the Constructor’s table and earn more money, I have a tough time seeing teams voluntarily withdrawing from events / the season.

On one hand I could see a team saying, “nope, we won’t travel to country X because of the danger,” but let’s say Australia invokes a travel ban and 2 week quarantine with Italy, but Australia itself is safe enough to travel to, I don’t see the British based teams withdrawing simply because Ferrari and Co. can’t make it.

Interesting times ahead, both for the sport, and the world at large.

 

[PeterJB]

I just finished it today. It really is better than the first season. That being said, I wished they'd do an episode for each of the team over the length of the whole season rather than focusing on a select few drivers based on the biggest highlights/drama that took place over the season. Either way, 2020 is poised to be one of the biggest year in F1 based on the current hype, if it really delivers, the 3rd season might be even better.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Netflix crew told them to really lay on the swearing. It felt really forced compared to last season, especially from Gunther.

 

[twitcher]

Anyone know more details about what could potentially happen to the season of the Italian based teams are unable to participate in either the whole season, or specific rounds?

I’ve read that if less than 16 cars start the race, the race does not count as a championship round. So if Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Haas, or even Alpha Tauri cannot participate in a race, would the whole race be called off?

That seems to put an awful lot of power in the hands of a few teams. I realize that there are rules written, but rules can be changed. With all the money that teams have invested in the 2020 season, and with the potential for participating teams to move up the Constructor’s table and earn more money, I have a tough time seeing teams voluntarily withdrawing from events / the season.

On one hand I could see a team saying, “nope, we won’t travel to country X because of the danger,” but let’s say Australia invokes a travel ban and 2 week quarantine with Italy, but Australia itself is safe enough to travel to, I don’t see the British based teams withdrawing simply because Ferrari and Co. can’t make it.

Interesting times ahead, both for the sport, and the world at large.

Well I guess this answers my question



FIA will cancel a full round of even ONE team cannot make it. I know these are extraordinary circumstances, but I think they’re both setting a dangerous precedent, as well as potentially screwing over a lot of fans.

 

[Jimlaad43]

If the Italian teams are restricted from going but the others could go, just do the race as normal for the fans but declare it non-championship. That way the losses people have are less than a complete cancellation and we still get a race.

 

[-Fred-]

As someone who would rather see Ferrari where they belong (that's behind the Williams and McLarens, like in the good old days) I potentially wouldn't care much if they didn't make the grid at all.

 

[shoemaker]

Australian government have just activated phase 2 of their plan, this means no large groups of people in public. Sports events are likely to be now cancelled according to local media.

 

[twitcher]

If the Italian teams are restricted from going but the others could go, just do the race as normal for the fans but declare it non-championship. That way the losses people have are less than a complete cancellation and we still get a race.

What incentive does Williams have to travel all the way to Australia if there will be no points on offer?

Sure, teams like Merc and RB can afford to put on a travelling road show for fun, but can the likes of Williams, Haas, or Racing Point justify spending all that money for zero return (the return being points, which are converted to $$$ at the end of the season)?

 

[TenEightyOne]

If the Italian teams are restricted from going but the others could go, just do the race as normal for the fans but declare it non-championship. That way the losses people have are less than a complete cancellation and we still get a race.

The race is either on or it's not, in my opinion. Teams that can/will get there should be eligible for points. If a number of teams can't make the race through force majeure that isn't the fault of the series or the fans. If it's unsafe in general for anyone to travel then the race should be cancelled.

There are questions about the tyre supplier's ability to travel too, of course.

 

[twitcher]

Edit: deleted

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Australian government have just activated phase 2 of their plan, this means no large groups of people in public. Sports events are likely to be now cancelled according to local media.

If this were true, I wouldn’t be going to work today.

 

[BrainsBush]

7 teams (the non Ferrari engine teams) demanded a clear open communication statement from the FIA with regards to the 'secret agreement between them and Ferrari'. Otherwise legal action will take place.

One of the sources: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/shocked-teams-ferrari-fia-legal-action/4716003/

 

[TenEightyOne]

7 teams (the non Ferrari engine teams) demanded a clear open communication statement from the FIA with regards to the 'secret agreement between them and Ferrari'. Otherwise legal action will take place.

One of the sources: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/shocked-teams-ferrari-fia-legal-action/4716003/

Another link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51736247

 

[LeGeNd-1]

7 teams (the non Ferrari engine teams) demanded a clear open communication statement from the FIA with regards to the 'secret agreement between them and Ferrari'. Otherwise legal action will take place.

One of the sources: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/shocked-teams-ferrari-fia-legal-action/4716003/

If FIA are going to let Ferrari's result stand last year, I feel they should've reinstated Toyota's result in the 1995 WRC Championship as well.

I know it's early, but Drive To Survive S3 is gonna be even more crazy with this, DAS, RP copying Merc, the threat of coronavirus cancelling the season and that's all before the first race even started

 

[MisterWaffles]

About that letter from the rest of the teams regarding the FIA’s lack of communication over Ferrari’s engines. I think it’s safe to say that it’s either legal or gray at this point, or it would have been shut down by the FIA last year when they did their investigation. What I believe they mean by reaching a confidentiality agreement is Ferrari doesn’t want the FIA to release their secret engine spaghetti sauce recipe to the other teams so that they can copy whatever clever trick they’re using.

I don’t think Ferrari’s engine controversy even matters at this point anyways because with it last year they were nowhere close to even challenging Mercedes for any title. Plus, the Merc has wobbly wheels that make it do tires better, so that will no doubt make the dominant team even faster.

 

[lancia delta hf]

About that letter from the rest of the teams regarding the FIA’s lack of communication over Ferrari’s engines. I think it’s safe to say that it’s either legal or gray at this point, or it would have been shut down by the FIA last year when they did their investigation. What I believe they mean by reaching a confidentiality agreement is Ferrari doesn’t want the FIA to release their secret engine spaghetti sauce recipe to the other teams so that they can copy whatever clever trick they’re using.

I don’t think Ferrari’s engine controversy even matters at this point anyways because with it last year they were nowhere close to even challenging Mercedes for any title. Plus, the Merc has wobbly wheels that make it do tires better, so that will no doubt make the dominant team even faster.

What I'm interested in is that they say those wobbly wheels changing the aero isn't against the rules because it isn't electronically controlled, so does that mean Vettel can just open his DRS using a piece of string lol?

 

[TenEightyOne]

What I'm interested in is that they say those wobbly wheels changing the aero isn't against the rules because it isn't electronically controlled

Have you got a source for that specific statement?

I'm just a bit confused because if moving the front wheels was banned they'd have to weld up all the steering columns.

 

[Greycap]

The wobbly wheels break at least two of the technical regulations.

10.2.1 With the steering wheel fixed, the position of each wheel centre and the orientation of its rotation axis must be completely and uniquely defined by a function of its principally vertical suspension travel, save only for the effects of reasonable compliance which does not intentionally provide further degrees of freedom.

Driver input is not vertical suspension travel, nor is it reasonable compliance. And it changes both the position of the wheel centre and the orientation of the rotation axis.

10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion.

Changing the toe angle most definitely counts as an adjustment to the suspension system.


Whenever Ferrari does something slightly suspicious, such as this alleged engine cheating which in the end couldn't even be proven, or just happens to have some success people are quick to resort to the old-as-the-sky Ferrari International Assistance and "Jean Todt works for the FIA" arguments. On the other hand Mercedes can freely dominate the series and do things like the DAS while everyone is nodding in approval, yet nobody ever dares to point out that a certain Ross Brawn, who sold his team for Mercedes and was their team principal in 2010-2013, is the Managing Director, Motor Sports and technical director for the Formula One Group.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The wobbly wheels break at least two of the technical regulations.

Source? Bear in mind that it's legal under the 2020 rules even if it isn't legal under the 2021 rules.

Changing the toe angle most definitely counts as an adjustment to the suspension system.

Odd that the F1 engineers disagree, maybe you should send your CV in

Whenever Ferrari does something slightly suspicious, such as this alleged engine cheating which in the end couldn't even be proven, or just happens to have some success people are quick to resort to the old-as-the-sky Ferrari International Assistance and "Jean Todt works for the FIA" arguments.

I quite agree that claims like that are facile and childish.

On the other hand Mercedes can freely dominate the series

Most consistent performers even with a slower car

do things like the DAS

legal

everyone is nodding in approval

and admiration

yet nobody ever dares to point out that a certain Ross Brawn, who sold his team for Mercedes and was their team principal in 2010-2013, is the Managing Director, Motor Sports and technical director for the Formula One Group.

And yet... you dare. If the nepotism that you seemingly imply is true in Ross Brawn's case then why might not it by true in Todt's case?

 

[Pezzarinho17]

The wobbly wheels break at least two of the technical regulations.


Driver input is not vertical suspension travel, nor is it reasonable compliance. And it changes both the position of the wheel centre and the orientation of the rotation axis.


Changing the toe angle most definitely counts as an adjustment to the suspension system.


Whenever Ferrari does something slightly suspicious, such as this alleged engine cheating which in the end couldn't even be proven, or just happens to have some success people are quick to resort to the old-as-the-sky Ferrari International Assistance and "Jean Todt works for the FIA" arguments. On the other hand Mercedes can freely dominate the series and do things like the DAS while everyone is nodding in approval, yet nobody ever dares to point out that a certain Ross Brawn, who sold his team for Mercedes and was their team principal in 2010-2013, is the Managing Director, Motor Sports and technical director for the Formula One Group.

I may be wrong (very likely to be wrong!), but are these not the new for 2021 rules that will prevent DAS next season?

 

[lancia delta hf]

Have you got a source for that specific statement?

I'm just a bit confused because if moving the front wheels was banned they'd have to weld up all the steering columns.

I don't have a source handy at present but I have seen discussions about it since it was revealed. They haven't banned ot for this season but I'm sure I've seen it has been banned for next season. The discussions I saw surrounding it was whether it should be banned now as it effectively alters the aero, and movable aero unit allowed. The response to this was that its allowed as it's not controlled by electronics. If that is true then surely it opens up new loopholes?

 

[TenEightyOne]

The discussions I saw surrounding it was whether it should be banned now as it effectively alters the aero, and movable aero unit allowed.

That seems unlikely because the benefits are more kinetic (tyre scrub) than aero, and moving the steering wheel affects the aero anyway.

I did find this about the dual-axis system:

This is allowed under the 2020 rules because the relevant clause says only: "The front wheels are adjusted solely by the steering and under the full control of the driver."

But the 2021 rules contain a clause which says: "The alignment of the front wheels must only take place through a constant function of a rotational movement of a single steering wheel."

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I don't have a source handy at present but I have seen discussions about it since it was revealed. They haven't banned ot for this season but I'm sure I've seen it has been banned for next season. The discussions I saw surrounding it was whether it should be banned now as it effectively alters the aero, and movable aero unit allowed. The response to this was that its allowed as it's not controlled by electronics. If that is true then surely it opens up new loopholes?

As above, the rules have been changed to ensure it is ruled out for 2021 but not 2020. The other teams however are still trying to rule it out for 2020, most likely down to the simple reason that they do not have it. Helmut Marko tried to claim it is illegal since it changes the ride height, and others have said it contravenes the specific parc ferme regulations.

Regarding the electronics argument, I've only seen that mentioned as an alternative version that would have been banned. Think of the brake bias system Renault were found to be using in Japan, it isn't that the brake bias was being adjusted that was the issue, but simply that it was an electronic device (therefore aiding the driver) that did the change.

I think it was Bottas that was also quoted as saying that Mercedes are not yet sure whether they will run DAS in Melbourne. Whether that is because the system won't give them the same benefit there, or whether it is due to the threat of a rival team protesting the design is another matter however...

 

[Biggles]

Currently on episode 5 of drive to survive. It’s better than the first season, I’m really liking it. You don’t need to be an F1 newbie to enjoy it. It focuses on the human element of the sport.

Still think Gunther should have been voted off the island in the first season ... along with Vijay Mallya.

 

[BrainsBush]

As expected the new 2021 F1 regulations have been delayed to 2022

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...elayed-until-2022.1lwtaLmpNcQd0z9SnMEyK8.html

 

[DesertPenguin]

2020 is over and 2021 will be the final year of this era of cars

 

[TenEightyOne]

Still think Gunther should have been voted off the island in the first season ... along with Vijay Mallya.

I believe it turned out that Mallya couldn't be evicted as he'd bought the island through a fifth-party offshore company that he had no memory of being the CEO of.

 

[PeterJB]

Williams have unveiled a new minty-fresh, Rokitless livery: