Formula 1 STC Saudi Arabian Grand Prix 2021Formula 1 

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LeGeNd-1
I can understand Lewis' hesitation in wanting to overtake Max (if he hadn't been told by the team that Max is giving the place back). Max basically tried to run him off the road multiple times in T1-2 in the race. When you're dealing with a driver like that, you don't know what he's planning when he starts slowing down on the straight and weaving a bit left and right. For Max, if neither of them finishes it's good. For Lewis, he absolutely MUST finish and get the points.

If Max wants to make it clear to give up the place, he would stick to the right wall, not vaguely in the middle of the track (also the wall on the left narrows a bit in that area).

Add to that, both drivers obviously didn't want to be the first one to cross the DRS detection point.

So it's a misunderstanding complicated by Max' aggressiveness earlier causing Lewis to be ultra cautious (rightly so), compounded further by the DRS detection being in that area.

Then on lap 42 he let Lewis past in the same spot, and then immediately takes the place again. Cheeky, but Max knows Lewis can't defend too hard because he can't afford DNF.

Then Lewis' final pass on lap 43 (which was as clean as anything, he left Max plenty of time to cutback instead of going off track). It's probably a last ditch effort by Max - that by running off the road, the stewards would also give Lewis 5 second penalty (which neutralises his own penalty), and they can resume the fight on track.

All in all, a very messy race. We know what Max is like but he's definitely feeling the pressure this weekend. Mistake in quali and so many moments of desperation in the race. Not helped by the poor T1-2 chicane (similar corner at Maggiore GP in GT Sport and Oscherschleben T1-2, which always causes chaos) and weak/inconsistent stewarding by FIA/Masi as usual.

But hey, at least we have a 1 race battle royale shootout :lol: Fully expecting a Senna-Prost 89/90 moment there. Get your popcorns ready folks!

P.S. I have no idea how Lewis got FL with his right front wing endplate missing. Since Brazil this guy's speed is just on another level.
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I see a lot of people asking why lewis didn't do this or do that, and I understand that these drivers have incredible reaction times. I also understand that lewis did cuck it up a bit but I think he's receiving too much push for this. I don't know if ya'll watched the same race that I did but that incident happened incredibly fast, between 2.5 - 3.5secs. It happened so fast that by the time bono got on the radio to confirm that max was slowing down to let lewis pass, the incident was already happening.

With that happening so fast, max almost in the middle of the track doing basically a little wiggle, bono hopping on the radio, with the added knowledge of a billion vcs happening through out the race and the drs zone coming up and still trying to figure out what max is doing in front of you....that sounds like major MAJOR information overload. I don't care how fast someones reaction time is, that comes down to muscle memory and twitch, I genuinely don't think the human brain can process that amount of information and uncertainty that fast.

In the end lewis touched his wing at the back.....then Toto turned up Lewis AI to 110% and he went on to set fastest last and win the race with a damaged wing. Im not a max fan like at all but im of the same opinion as him that it is what it is and I hope we stop talking about it lol
 
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With that Max penalty, well, I'll just paraphrase from the monorail episode of the Simpsons:

FIA: Well, my work is done here.
Me: What do you mean "Your work is done? That penalty didn't do anything."
FIA (laughs): Didn't it? (beams out)

I want to give Max leeway because young drivers have a habit of being overly aggressive - Hamilton had his bad episodes earlier in his career. But frankly, I am tired of Red Bull, the FIA and all his fans constantly excusing his method of driving because for all the talent he has, his tactics are not brilliant in the slightest; they are utter slop.
 
OutlawQuadrnt
With that Max penalty, well, I'll just paraphrase from the monorail episode of the Simpsons:

FIA: Well, my work is done here.
Me: What do you mean "Your work is done? That penalty didn't do anything."
FIA (laughs): Didn't it? (beams out)

I want to give Max leeway because young drivers have a habit of being overly aggressive - Hamilton had his bad episodes earlier in his career. But frankly, I am tired of Red Bull, the FIA and all his fans constantly excusing his method of driving because for all the talent he has, his tactics are not brilliant in the slightest; they are utter slop.
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Agreed. I'm done with their crap. It's turned into a cult there.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if we see a 2021 version of 1990 Suzuka next weekend, cause knowing Hamilton and Verstappen this year, it would be the most 2021 way to end this almost chaotic season.
 
OutlawQuadrnt
With that Max penalty, well, I'll just paraphrase from the monorail episode of the Simpsons:

FIA: Well, my work is done here.
Me: What do you mean "Your work is done? That penalty didn't do anything."
FIA (laughs): Didn't it? (beams out)

I want to give Max leeway because young drivers have a habit of being overly aggressive - Hamilton had his bad episodes earlier in his career. But frankly, I am tired of Red Bull, the FIA and all his fans constantly excusing his method of driving because for all the talent he has, his tactics are not brilliant in the slightest; they are utter slop.
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The thing I don't understand is regardless of him being young and aggressive, Lewis at Max's age had less experience in F1. By the time Lewis gain the same the amount of years experience that Max has now he was already showing signs of being more methodical and precise with his aggression. Because despite Mclaren being terrible for his personhood and developing his own personality, I think those years at Mclaren gave Lewis a level of discipline and precision with his aggression that he then took to Mercedes.

But with Max I just don't see that at all. The Redbull mentality is "On the limit at all time, take every opportunity and leave nothing on table"....its very "Maverick". And while that's great for Qualifying (turn 27 disagrees) its horrendously dangerous for racing. It seems like he doesn't know the concept of timing is everything. Its ok to not push at this time or that time. Its ok to back off the racing line even if you're in the right. You don't have to pass right now at this second....wait.

With the FIA not punishing him for YEARS and still barely doing so, I can only see this getting much much worse.
 
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Siren
The thing I don't understand is regardless of him being young and aggressive, Lewis at Max's age had less experience in F1. By the time Lewis gain the same the amount of years experience that Max has now he was already showing signs of being more methodical and precise with his aggression. Because despite Mclaren being terrible for his personhood and developing his own personality, I think those years at Mclaren gave Lewis a level of discipline and precision with his aggression that he then took to Mercedes.

But with Max I just don't see that at all. The Redbull mentality is "On the limit at all time, take every opportunity and leave nothing on table"....its very "Maverick". And while that's great for Qualify (turn 27 disagrees) its horrendously dangerous for racing. It seems like he doesn't know the concept of timing is everything. Its ok to not push at this time or that time. Its ok to back off the racing line even if you're in the right. You don't have to pass right this second....wait.

With the FIA not punishing him for YEARS and still barely doing so, I can only see this getting much much worse.
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I'd honestly say that this mentality you're talking about is the aspects of modern racing thought. Especially with some younger guys, it's 'get mine and screw everyone else' oor 'if i don't pass, then I'll never know when I get another chance'. We saw it at Monza, saw it at RBR, saw it in Brazil, and now in Saudi Arabia. It's aggresive and exiting sure, but it is very ill-advised, especially soooooooooo late in a season when you're tied on points with a resurgent rival like Hamilton.
 
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Brake checking is possibly the greatest sin a racing driver can commit short of driving straight into someone. It shows a complete disregard for the safety of yourself, your competitors and the fans watching in the stands. It's a truly cowardly act and a 10 second penalty is a disgrace as punishment for such an incident. A sudden 2.4g deceleration when another driver is a handful of metres behind you deserves the entire book being thrown at you. The bloke is a petulant child who has never been told no.
 
Mum and dad say that I shouldn't care because "you can't do anything about it" and "it is what it is" which kinda makes me feel like crap as an F1 enthusiast. I do care about this championship, and I do care about the integrity and competence of the stewards because it sucks to see such contentious decisions being made. What are the rules and regulations even for if they'll just be overridden all the time? Consistency is such a vital part of the stewarding and if it's not there, it ruins everything - leading to continual bickering between teams, drivers and fans. We don't want that, we want fairness, justice and respect to ensure that everyone gets the same thing no matter what. Rules are supposed to be objective.
 
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24HuresdeLoL
I'd honestly say that this mentality you're talking about is the aspects of modern racing thought. Especially with some younger guys, it's 'get mine and screw everyone else' oor 'if i don't pass, then I'll never know when I get another chance'. We saw it at Monza, saw it at RBR, saw it in Brazil, and now in Saudi Arabia. It's aggresive and exiting sure, but it is very ill-advised, especially soooooooooo late in a season when you're tied on points with a resurgent rival like Hamilton.
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I gave up on max getting better after Monza. If you're driving so aggressive that you're not on the race line, don't even have space to make the corner and you literally drive over someones car to the point where if the Halo was designed any different the other driver could've been paralyzed or worse......and you still think you're in the right ??? How do you not re-evaluate your entire driving approach for the rest of your career after that ?

This is why I like Lewis's driving style. He doesn't maul his opponents but rather he stalks them. Its why so many drivers hate when he's behind them because he put's them on edge. He actively chooses not to pass and stick within a few tenths behind to study their driving and look out for a weakness then once he finds it he pounces and goes for the pass.
It's what he did to Max in brazil (granted he had that warp speed engine), He stayed behind Max then baited him into defending the slower line 3 corners in advance then went for the pass.

I literally never see max doing plays like that. Its always push push push push then a risky pass. When he sticks the landing its magical and "pure racing talent", the second coming of Senna, Alonso smiling ear to ear. But when he bins it its colossal mayhem followed by "well i left the space and he braked later than me, he didn't leave space or backed out".
 
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OutlawQuadrnt
FIA: Well, my work is done here.
Me: What do you mean "Your work is done? That penalty didn't do anything."
FIA (laughs): Didn't it? (beams out)
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This is similar to when Lewis gets a penalty.

In Silverstone, he still won as no one else is quick enough to challenge.

Brazil after he spun albon.
The penalty system needs "race place penalties"
As in Brazil we saw how fast he rocketed past everyone.
 
Max disagreed with the problem incident in turn 1 saying how he made a mistake and went a bit deep and wasn't able to make the corner. But Lewis didn't make the corner as well so max shouldn't be the only 1 punished. (Lewis couldn't make the corner because Max shoved him wide and made it impossible for Lewis to even attempt)

This is where the dark evil Red Bull mentality comes to light. Any decent race team and manager would have told the driver to admit the mistake and say you didn't think it was worth a penalty, and glad no one's race ended because of it. Yet here they are, still pushing the idea that Max is being singled out wrongly for the incident. The whole incident was Max losing control of the car and nearly wiping out Hamilton for the second time in 3 races, of course he should be singled out.

After Hamilton's bonehead incident at Silverstone got a penalty he dealt with it better, and indeed has driven with more precision following that. Max hasn't changed 1 microscopic bit of his driving, a symptom his team is now betraying him by inflating his ego instead of making him more mature and methodical in his attacking.
 
LeGeNd-1
P.S. I have no idea how Lewis got FL with his right front wing endplate missing. Since Brazil this guy's speed is just on another level.
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Red Bull gives you drag reduction? :lol:
 
Finished watching the race replay, though the overall race was spoiled in my general feeds due to all the craziness that took place.

Hamilton definitely drove to one of, if not his toughest win ever. It was actually a bit concerning seeing him and Max completely winded after they got out of their cars; I was honestly half-expecting Hamilton to faint during the podium interview. Still did a good job keeping it clean and, in typical Hamilton fashion, was able to pull out the fastest lap despite having a loss of downforce.

Verstappen has ridiculous amounts of talent, but I'm sick of seeing his hyper-aggressive driving style that puts himself and his fellow drivers at risk for relatively little gain. Also sick of Red Bull's BS this year. Horner's use of Charlie Whiting to crap on Masi (who, to be fair, did a poor job this race) was in remarkably bad taste, especially after getting a talking-to for 🤬-talking a track marshall in Qatar. I've tried to stay as neutral as possible, but I'm definitely rooting for Hamilton to take his 8th title next week. Verstappen will win a title at some point in his career, but his driving style and his decision-making needs to improve first. And Red Bull needs to chill with the toxic victim complex.

Bottas had a solid recovery drive this time around. Stealing 3rd right before the finish was epic. Of course, one could say that he shouldn't be behind an Alpine, but I'd say that was more down to Ocon putting in a very good drive. Gutted that Ocon couldn't hold on for the podium, but he still did an awesome job, and made up a good number of points for Alpine while Alonso struggled all weekend.

Honorable mention to Danny Ric for finishing 5th, and Gasly for 6th. Ricciardo has another solid performance, which is always nice given his struggles this year, and Gasly once again shows his prowess by dragging the AT kicking and screaming to another 6th place. I really hope Gasly is getting a lot more attention within the inner workings of F1 than he does on the broadcast, because he 100% needs to be in a mid-high or top-level team at some point soon. Still hopeful Alpine can snatch him up so that they can rock an all-French lineup with Ocon.

Gio gets his best result of the year with 8th, which is nice given his troubles this year.

Bose would be stupid as hell if they don't use the footage of angry Toto in an ad. Learn from Tide, Bose.

I hope we never return to this circuit.
 
Well that wasn't a sporting event, that was a farce. Both from the perspective of the track which is not suitable for F1 racing, to the antics of HAM and VER, to the control of the event by the FIA. VER's antics in his "defensive" moves was poor, but expected.

Off the second start it was the same basic scenario as Brazil in that he knew HAM had the jump on him but rather than cede the corner he brakes too late/eases off them, moves ahead of HAM because of it, then runs off the track because he's going too fast.

Then the lap 37 pass he did it yet again. Same tactic of not braking enough to make the corner and forcing HAM off on the outside. VER was not making that corner no matter what HAM did. That isn't how you defend a corner.

Then the slowing incident. That isn't how you let someone by, making them second guess what you're doing because it's so unusual. HAM was confused, not knowing what VER would do if he tried to go past. Then he did something incredibly stupid and that penalty for slamming on the brakes is absurd, but par for the course at this absurd event.

People saying HAM is partially at fault remember that whilst bizarre, he doesn't HAVE to overtake. If another car is going slowly ahead of you, you don't have to overtake it. So whether he was confused or being tactical, he did nothing wrong according to the rules by sitting behind him. What VER did though, very much against the rules and the penalty is worthless.

HAM and Mercedes were definitely being questionable with their safety car tactics but it seems that since it wasn't a formation lap it didn't matter anyway. Either way, neither side have been particularly sporting with that sort of thing all season.

Also it didn't seem to matter in the end but I've been saying for years now, ever since Monaco whatever year it was that killed the end of a race, they can't be allowed tactical tyre changes in a red flag period. It's farcical from a sporting POV.

Masi or someone above him, like Ross Brawn, really needs to sit HAM And VER down in a room before the final race and drill into them what is expected of a sporting event and racing cleanly, because otherwise Abu Dhabi is going to only be more of the same.
 
NotThePrez
Finished watching the race replay, though the overall race was spoiled in my general feeds due to all the craziness that took place.

Hamilton definitely drove to one of, if not his toughest win ever. It was actually a bit concerning seeing him and Max completely winded after they got out of their cars; I was honestly half-expecting Hamilton to faint during the podium interview. Still did a good job keeping it clean and, in typical Hamilton fashion, was able to pull out the fastest lap despite having a loss of downforce.

Verstappen has ridiculous amounts of talent, but I'm sick of seeing his hyper-aggressive driving style that puts himself and his fellow drivers at risk for relatively little gain. Also sick of Red Bull's BS this year. Horner's use of Charlie Whiting to crap on Masi (who, to be fair, did a poor job this race) was in remarkably bad taste, especially after getting a talking-to for 🤬-talking a track marshall in Qatar. I've tried to stay as neutral as possible, but I'm definitely rooting for Hamilton to take his 8th title next week. Verstappen will win a title at some point in his career, but his driving style and his decision-making needs to improve first. And Red Bull needs to chill with the toxic victim complex.

Bottas had a solid recovery drive this time around. Stealing 3rd right before the finish was epic. Of course, one could say that he shouldn't be behind an Alpine, but I'd say that was more down to Ocon putting in a very good drive. Gutted that Ocon couldn't hold on for the podium, but he still did an awesome job, and made up a good number of points for Alpine while Alonso struggled all weekend.

Honorable mention to Danny Ric for finishing 5th, and Gasly for 6th. Ricciardo has another solid performance, which is always nice given his struggles this year, and Gasly once again shows his prowess by dragging the AT kicking and screaming to another 6th place. I really hope Gasly is getting a lot more attention within the inner workings of F1 than he does on the broadcast, because he 100% needs to be in a mid-high or top-level team at some point soon. Still hopeful Alpine can snatch him up so that they can rock an all-French lineup with Ocon.

Gio gets his best result of the year with 8th, which is nice given his troubles this year.

Bose would be stupid as hell if they don't use the footage of angry Toto in an ad. Learn from Tide, Bose.

I hope we never return to this circuit.
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Alpine has been the biggest sleeper hit this whole season and with Alonso so confident in having a title fight next year, its gonna get spicy.
 
McLaren
Horner throwing more shade at Masi.

www.racefans.net

F1 "missed Charlie Whiting" today says Horner after chaotic race

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner made his view of FIA Formula 1 race director Michael Masi clear after a series of controversial incidents and stewards' decisions in the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix.
www.racefans.net www.racefans.net

Interesting backlash by fans though that have said Charlie would've been much harsher on Max if he was still around.
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It's just a pretty unfortunate tactic to try and take the negative focus off his driver and onto someone else.

I said earlier this year that I was not a fan of broadcasting the team-to-FIA communications. It's essentially being used by teams to try and strongarm/undermine the race director during the race.

I am sure this still happened with Charlie Whiting (and as mentioned, there are examples where he gave one opinion and the stewards gave the opposite, i.e. Spa 2008). The difference is that the radio channel was not broadcasted to the public previously.
 
What's amazing to me is this stood a 99% chance of being a farce of a race, for any number of reasons.

It could have sucked because it's a soulless cash grab of an event planned at the very last second.

It could have sucked because it was a stupidly dangerous and blind track that invited danger.

It could have sucked because the nature of the track forced processional racing.

It could have sucked because race control were watching Peppa pig during every incident,

But it still managed to suck because of Max Verstappen's complete inability to race with Lewis Hamilton.

What a transcendentally awful driver he is.
 
Max is still most likely pissed about Silverstone, Baku and Hungry.
Victory was close for him at Baku.
He got screwed at Hungry and Silverstone.

If it wasn't for either one of these, he would've been WDC by now.
 
Imagine 1994 with schumacher with this set of rules. Hill would be crowned champion. Imagine Senna and Prost in Suzuka, no way Senna would be world champion.

It’s like watching soccer. The winner is the one who let’s the referee give a card to the other player. I really dislike it. Let them race, fight and crash.

Also, Hamilton says he didn’t know what to do…. I am sorry, are you not a race driver racing for the win. Don’t you just overtake at any given oppertunity? Hamilton knew fully well what he was doing. They were both playing a dangerous game. So neither should be penalized. But that’s just my opinion.
 
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Masi needs to tell the two of them for Abu Dhabi "If you two crash and wipe each other out, we will take 1 point away from your Drivers Championship". That way we can actually get a race rather than another Max divebomb ending up with them both missing wheels. We don't need Suzuka 1990, Adelaide 1994 or London ePrix 2016 again. They went down in memory for all the wrong reasons. Just make it very clear to Max and Lewis that if they end each other's races with a stupid collision, the FIA have the power to make sure that whoever is deemed to have caused it doesn't win the title. They're equal on points so it makes all the sense in the world to do it this way.
 
PletdeKoe
Imagine 1994 with schumacher with this set of rules. Hill would be crowned champion. Imagine Senna and Prost in Suzuka, no way Senna would be world champion.

It’s like watching soccer. The winner is the one who let’s the referee give a card to the other player. I really dislike it. Let them race, fight and crash.

Also, Hamilton says he didn’t know what to do…. I am sorry, are you not a race driver racing for the win. Don’t you just overtake at any given oppertunity? Hamilton knew fully well what he was doing. They were both playing a dangerous game. So neither should be penalized. But that’s just my opinion.
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No.....you don't overtake at any given opportunity lol. Did you even watch what happened? They were literally both fighting for the drs line, Max slowed down to hand over the position but also so he'd get drs after, Ham slowed down initially not to hand Max Drs, Hamilton isn't notified that Max is handing over the position, Max wiggles to the middle of the track slowing down more, then as Ham goes to overtake because he realized they were going too slow Max proceeds to break check Ham.....yes we he break checks Ham, then Ham hits the back of max. So yea Ham had no idea what to do because he wasn't notified that the position would be handed over until the actual crash happened, as far as he knows Max was trying to bait ham into handing drs.
 
PletdeKoe
They were both playing a dangerous game. So neither should be penalized.
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Perhaps, but VER is the only one that slammed the brakes on knowing HAM was right behind him. What HAM did was risky and strange, but not against the rules. Which is all that ultimately matters.
 
Last night's race was the perfect showcase of the FIA not knowing how to enforce their own rules. management seemed like a circus rather than the top tier of motorsport.

They should have given Bottas a penalty at least for that safety car BS.
 
I feel sorry for Max in a way, he's in a situation were he is desperately trying to please his dad, who has been living vicariously through him and used nepotism to get him to were he is. I think part of Max's driving choices are being driven (lol) by this pressure, trouble is he's more than crossed the line (boom boom) and he is looking horribly amateurish. He's driving like he's playing a video game with no consequences at all, being re-affirmed by a delusional boss... it is not going to end well.
 
ScottPye20
Mum and dad say that I shouldn't care because "you can't do anything about it" and "it is what it is" which kinda makes me feel like crap as an F1 enthusiast. I do care about this championship, and I do care about the integrity and competence of the stewards because it sucks to see such contentious decisions being made. What are the rules and regulations even for if they'll just be overridden all the time? Consistency is such a vital part of the stewarding and if it's not there, it ruins everything - leading to continual bickering between teams, drivers and fans. We don't want that, we want fairness, justice and respect to ensure that everyone gets the same thing no matter what. Rules are supposed to be objective.
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Not caring is a luxury, not the standard. It's fine to care about things and let yourself be heard as long as it isn't abusing anybody. Sure you can't do anything to change the result but multiple voices can change what occurs next if matters to the FIA (albeit a but if).

Season finale will be interesting. Especially in the remade Abu Dhabi circuit to be more faster and supposedly more overtaking. I was working during the GP and hearing the drama on my phone carried me through my shift constantly thinking about it :lol:
 
andrea
Last night's race was the perfect showcase of the FIA not knowing how to enforce their own rules. management seemed like a circus rather than the top tier of motorsport.

They should have given Bottas a penalty at least for that safety car BS.
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Assuming you mean the first SC, it was fine because they hadn't formed behind the SC at that point. It's only once the train behind the SC is formed, that you then have to keep 10 car lengths. They could've done him for driving unnecessarily slowly but they don't seem to care about enforcing that, as evidenced in quali.
 

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