Formula E racing series launchedOpen Wheel 

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Di Grassi's cap brought out my inner child immaturity.

"FAG"

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Jimlaad43
Basically a massive "Screw you" to Red Bull. He's only driven that car for a few minutes and he sticks it on pole. Talent or what?
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The Formula E grid hardly has the depth of talent of Formula 1. Do you honestly think Vergne would have been on pole if he was racing the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg, Ricciardo and Vettel? And if so, why didn't he manage it in Formula 1.

Vergne was only ever a second-tier driver in Formula 1. So, too are many of the drivers in Formula E - like Heidfeld and di Grassi and Buemi and Alguersuari.
 
I really enjoyed today's race. Notice how this track had some actual corners that weren't 90 degrees, chicanes or hairpins and had good racing. Can't help but think that this had something to do with it.
 
That was a damn good race! Vergne showed his talent right there, pole and leading on his first day in a new car? That's impressive.

It's almost a 3 horse race already. with Di Grassi, Buemi and Bird way ahead of everyone else.
 
prisonermonkeys
The Formula E grid hardly has the depth of talent of Formula 1. Do you honestly think Vergne would have been on pole if he was racing the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg, Ricciardo and Vettel? And if so, why didn't he manage it in Formula 1.

Vergne was only ever a second-tier driver in Formula 1. So, too are many of the drivers in Formula E - like Heidfeld and di Grassi and Buemi and Alguersuari.
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Vergne is not Alonso, but he's not Di Resta either. I'm not sure he's worse than any of Button, Perez, Hulkenburg, Massa, Bottas and Grosjean. His race pace was closer to Ricciardo's than Vettel's was, and JEV's racecraft and awareness is excellent.

F1 is all about opportunity, so don't make it seem like the drivers you named were chumps. Heidfeld beat five GP winning teammates in his time in F1, Buemi beat Bourdais by a similar margin to what Vettel did earlier and Alguersuari outscored Buemi in his last season. Trulli was the only driver to ever match Alonso over a season! (though that was over a decade ago, he ended up leaving F1 through the back door after losing regularly to the forgettable Kovalainen)
 
aarror
That was a damn good race! Vergne showed his talent right there, pole and leading on his first day in a new car? That's impressive.

It's almost a 3 horse race already. with Di Grassi, Buemi and Bird way ahead of everyone else.
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Prost and Heidfeld have skills but are unlucky or making bad mistakes.
 
Akmuq
Think that one through, he didn't manage it for the same reason Ricciardo hasn't. Neither have had the fastest car on the F1 grid at any stage.
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prisonermonkeys
The Formula E grid hardly has the depth of talent of Formula 1. Do you honestly think Vergne would have been on pole if he was racing the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg, Ricciardo and Vettel? And if so, why didn't he manage it in Formula 1.

Vergne was only ever a second-tier driver in Formula 1. So, too are many of the drivers in Formula E - like Heidfeld and di Grassi and Buemi and Alguersuari.
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Agreeing with Akmuq here. I wasn't aware PM that JEV was a "2nd tier driver" based on a couple seasons, and Riccardio was presumably "top tier" based one season? For all we know could be Riccardios only ever season of GP podiums... rash judgement much?
 
Where was it written that any Toro Rosso driver was guaranteed a promotion to Red Bull? Vergne evidently didn't meet the expectations of Red Bull, so why should he have been promoted? And how is one pole position in a different series any proof that Red Bull have gotten their driver line-up fundamentally wrong?
 
Nobody said as much. I think what we all took issue with is your question of why JEV never achieved a pole position in F1 (it should be obvious why) and your second tier driver label when his opportunities to impress have been limited. Was Rosberg top tier when he was poodling around in the Williams and McLaren declined signing him?

And don't preach to Red Bull's authority. Horner had no idea Ricciardo would be this good and expected Vettel to beat him handily. They even contemplated signing Raikkonen over Ricciardo, which was a mistake they fortuitously avoided.
 
prisonermonkeys
The Formula E grid hardly has the depth of talent of Formula 1. Do you honestly think Vergne would have been on pole if he was racing the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg, Ricciardo and Vettel? And if so, why didn't he manage it in Formula 1.

Vergne was only ever a second-tier driver in Formula 1. So, too are many of the drivers in Formula E - like Heidfeld and di Grassi and Buemi and Alguersuari.
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what makes it worse is qualifying is what he was soo bad at too.

Formula E would be equal or slightly lower then Indy quality wise going by the drivers, just everyone is inexperinced with the cars so it's easier for drivers to just come in and be up front with little or no experience.
 
prisonermonkeys
Where was it written that any Toro Rosso driver was guaranteed a promotion to Red Bull?
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I'd love to know who this is addressing because nobody made any such claim

prisonermonkeys
Vergne evidently didn't meet the expectations of Red Bull, so why should he have been promoted?
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Nobody made this claim.
prisonermonkeys
And how is one pole position in a different series any proof that Red Bull have gotten their driver line-up fundamentally wrong?
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3 out of 3, nobody said this either!
 
SagarisGTB
Nobody said as much. I think what we all took issue with is your question of why JEV never achieved a pole position in F1 (it should be obvious why) and your second tier driver label when his opportunities to impress have been limited. Was Rosberg top tier when he was poodling around in the Williams and McLaren declined signing him?

And don't preach to Red Bull's authority. Horner had no idea Ricciardo would be this good and expected Vettel to beat him handily. They even contemplated signing Raikkonen over Ricciardo, which was a mistake they fortuitously avoided.
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I would say Vergne is past the used by date for Redbull to keep him, and saying he is second tier is pretty fair, he was absolutely demolished by Ricciardo in qualifying and the only way he kept a decent score card against him was because making it to Q3 back in 2012 and 2013 meant you had less new tyres, and completely compromised your race compared to those who didn't make Q2.
 
I don't really buy that, I though that concept was overstated. Grid position was always a greater benefit than one extra very slightly fresher set of tires. If it wasn't, more drivers wouldn't have set times in Q3. As it was, only the drivers who were going to take up 9th or 10th on the grid regardless of whether they did a lap or not chose to not set a time. The choice of tires from 11th on was always more of a consolation than an outright advantage.

Vergne's excellent race pace was very much genuine. He was soundly beaten by Ricciardo at times (a four-time champion has as well), but there were occasions when he had the upper hand. I'd have liked to have seen Vergne alongside a proven teammate in his 3rd year or beyond. He has loads of talent, there is no mistaking it.
 
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SagarisGTB
I don't really buy that, I though that concept was overstated. Grid position was always a greater benefit than one extra very slightly fresher set of tires. If it wasn't, more drivers wouldn't have set times in Q3. As it was, only the drivers who were going to take up 9th or 10th on the grid regardless of whether they did a lap or not chose to not set a time. The choice of tires from 11th on was always more of a consolation than an outright advantage.

Vergne's excellent race pace was very much genuine. He was soundly beaten by Ricciardo at times (a four-time champion has as well), but there were occasions when he had the upper hand. I'd have liked to have seen Vergne alongside a proven teammate in his 3rd year or beyond. He has loads of talent, there is no mistaking it.
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Kyvats speed alone made him redundent though, problem for him though is he got some engine troubles quite a few times whilst way up the field, Vergne has had 3 years, at the end of the day your not good enough if your not better then everyone else.

F1 doesn't have room for journeyman anymore thanks to the finanical state, you either have world class talent or money.
 
Akmuq
I'd love to know who this is addressing because nobody made any such claim

Nobody made this claim.

3 out of 3, nobody said this either!
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Then why would @Jimlaad43 call Vergne's pole a "screw you to Red Bull"? I'm pretty sure he has been critical of their decision to promote Daniil Kvyat over JEV in the past.
 

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