Formula One Gran Premio De España Santander 2011

[Akira AC]

What about his performance has been luck? Last year, he was the World Champion despite some mistakes, a lot of poor reliability and the occasional brain fade. This season, he has upped his game and is walking away with the championship for now. Out of the first five races, he was won four and taken a second place (and that was only the strategy that cost him the win).

So far this season, he has stepped up his game to levels the others are finding hard to cope with, he has shown incredible speed, better racecraft and is utilizing strategies well. More to the point, other than a practice crash at Turkey (which he bounced back from), he has not made a single mistake and is generally a class above the field. He has shown that he can overtake and defend.

So having said all that, I await your response as to where he has been lucky.

Well,during the current season Vettel hasn't found mayor logistic or extraordinary problems while in race,while Hamilton,Button and specially Webber found themselves in pretty bad situations,if you consider the Webber's pace on the last races you find that he manages better performance but he ends up losing when a situation like a mechanical failure comes up,the same can be said about Hamilton and Button,I'm not questioning Vettel performance,he is the very best driver on F1 currently but is not entirely the reason of why he is leading this championship season.

As for Alonso,he doesn't maintain consistency,I mean,he can be very brilliant on some part of the race,but keeping both pace and performance is what makes a great racing driver,he can have some good performance moments,but he doesn't keep up the pace for a whole race,Which brings me to imagine what can Kobayashi achieve in a race car like Ferrari's,is not to hard to consider the pace that Kobayashi manages through an entire race,which in,my opinion would be better than Alonso's pace and performance.

That's what I consider Alonso as an overrated driver,while there is more drivers with way more potential than him.

 

[Alex.]

I never had him in my signature.

I've always been a Massa fan, I'll admit, but to be honest I'll be surprised if Massa's going to drive for Ferrari for much longer. In a perfect world Rosberg would take the seat since it's obvious the current Mercedes car is going nowhere, and Kobayashi would then take Rosberg's seat.

Must've been thinking of Duffers or someone instead, my bad. It was one of you Massa fans

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Which brings me to imagine what can Kobayashi achieve in a race car like Ferrari's,is not to hard to consider the pace that Kobayashi manages through an entire race,which in,my opinion would be better than Alonso's pace and performance.

I doubt it or if it was it wouldn't be much better. The pace in this race a was dictated by the tires, how the car deals with them, and strategy. If Alonso didn't cover off Vettel early on he would have been more consistent.

My theory is that the tires are actually masking the cars performance and the performance is bridged a bit, but on better tires the Ferrari would be pretty terrible.

 

[The Outlaw]

Well,during the current season Vettel hasn't found mayor logistic or extraordinary problems while in race,while Hamilton,Button and specially Webber found themselves in pretty bad situations,if you consider the Webber's pace on the last races you find that he manages better performance but he ends up losing when a situation like a mechanical failure comes up,the same can be said about Hamilton and Button,I'm not questioning Vettel performance,is is the very best driver on F1 currently but is not entirely the reason of why he is leading this championship season.

As for Alonso,he doesn't maintain consistency,I mean,he can be very brilliant on some part of the race,but keeping both pace and performance is what makes a great racing driver,he can have some good performance moments,but he doesn't keep up the pace for a whole race,Which brings me to imagine what can Kobayashi achieve in a race car like Ferrari's,is not to hard to consider the pace that Kobayashi manages through an entire race,which in,my opinion would be better than Alonso's pace and performance.

All I will say is that there is A LOT more to it than that...and if you think Fernando has an issue with maintaing pace throughout a race, you're sadly mistaken and quite naive for thinking that.

First of all, Ferrari was quite majorly handicapped (in terms of setup) after their new rear wing was banned just prior to FP3 (which I've heard was worth .5)...this means they had wasted valuable time in FP1/2 working on a setup that wasn't to be. Secondly, there are many technical variables in F1 from race to race, particlarly with the new Pirreli tire and how each car is able to get them to work & last. The Ferrari is one of the kindest cars on the tires, and with the new super hard Pirreli that was introduced for this race, the Ferrari was bound to be quite weak on this tire, considering they don't have enough DF to get the tire to work properly with the rest of their package (according to Pat Fry). If anything, luck was completely against Fernando this weekend in terms of what he had to work against.

That what I consider Alonso as an overrated driver,while there is more drivers with way more potential than him.

And how do you know this? Please enlighten me.

Funny how so many want to discount a 2x WDC (and someone who I feel has onlyg gotten better since those 2 WDC)....on the basis of total BULLCRAP.

 

[F1 fan]

How was he making fun of Vettel?

On the other hand you could argue that Vettel was unable to pass a car (Alonsos Ferrari) that was at least a second per lap slower, at a time in the race where Vettel's DRS and KERS was working.

It was to do with his tone and the "emoticon" at the end.

Although I certainly agree with most of what you have said, stating that he is "generally a class above the field" is again a bit much IMO. If anything, the RB7 is the only thing that is arguably a clear class above the field. Again, Vettel is superb...I just get rather irritated with how supporters continue to hype up his ability (as being a level above)...seemingly to forget that the other top dogs of the sport (Hamilton & Alonso) are in far inferior equipment on the whole. People need to step back and take a better perspective on things. And no...I'm not dissing Vettel in anyway.

I agree about Alonso being in inferior equipment, but I'm not so sure about Button and Hamilton. They are at a disadvantage in qualifying form. How much a disadvantage is entirely debatable. They seem very strong in race pace. When you look at the top 4 positions in the championship, Vettel has almost twice the points that Webber has, and Hamilton has quite a large gap over Button and 10 points more than Webber. So either Webber's been criminally underperforming this season, or Vettel is a class above the field. Which is it?

And I could say that too many people talk Vettel down. This irritates me probably as much as people "talking him up" does to you.

As for Alonso,he doesn't maintain consistency,I mean,he can be very brilliant on some part of the race,but keeping both pace and performance is what makes a great racing driver,he can have some good performance moments,but he doesn't keep up the pace for a whole race,Which brings me to imagine what can Kobayashi achieve in a race car like Ferrari's,is not to hard to consider the pace that Kobayashi manages through an entire race,which in,my opinion would be better than Alonso's pace and performance.

Funny how you question the pace of the man frequently described as the most respected/feared in the paddock.

after their new rear wing was banned just prior to FP3 (which I've heard was worth .5)...

While I don't deny that the new rear wing could have been worth a tenth or 2, half a second seems unrealistic to me.

 

[The Outlaw]

.

While I don't deny that the new rear wing could have been worth a tenth or 2, half a second seems unrealistic to me.

Sorry, I meant the new package. The new wing was probably worth 1-2 tenths as you said.

 

[Akira AC]

Funny how you question the pace of the man frequently described as the most respected/feared in the paddock.

Speaking of michael schumacher

 

[The Outlaw]

It was to do with his tone and the "emoticon" at the end.

I agree about Alonso being in inferior equipment, but I'm not so sure about Button and Hamilton. They are at a disadvantage in qualifying form. How much a disadvantage is entirely debatable. They seem very strong in race pace. When you look at the top 4 positions in the championship, Vettel has almost twice the points that Webber has, and Hamilton has quite a large gap over Button and 10 points more than Webber. So either Webber's been criminally underperforming this season, or Vettel is a class above the field. Which is it? .

Vettel has clearly owned Webber thus far...no questions asked whatsover. But beyond that, there's simply no clear cut answer saying Vettel is a class above the rest though (particularly Alonso & Hamilton)...especially given that Hamilton & Alonso are constantly under the pressure of having to play catch up thus far. The Points only mean so much to begin with, given the fact that torwards the top there's more spread in the points allotment. To answer your question though, I'd lean more torwards Webber massively underperforming in a car that should at the very worst be able to achieve a 2nd place everytime out. Vettel has performed brillantly thus far IMO...but is he performing at a level above everyone else? I really don't know...nor does anyone else really.

Funny how you question the pace of the man frequently described as the most respected/feared in the paddock.

Since aki knows best, he should get on the phone with Ferrari and tell them his controversial (to what they must believe) insight

 

[Sureboss]

Pretty good race, exciting to watch the Lewis v Vettel battle. I think it is still obvious the track is terrible for overtaking, but the cars look quite good. If they tightened up the first corner, that'd make it better, as well as removing the chicane at the end of the lap, which is always going to make it harder for attacking in to the first turn.

I know the new circuit owners said they were prepared to make changes if necessary. Maybe straightening the fast right in the middle of the lap (turn 9?) so that drivers can attack better in to turn 10.

Nice to see Sauber pick up some points too.

 

[Ardius]

Turn 9 is one of the better corners! No, just revert the track to the non-chicaned version - the problem was even apparent with the super-long DRS that the cars simply lose too much ground in the chicane that they are not close enough on the straight.
The rest of the track is fine as it is, as I really don't see them making it better..only worse. For the rest of the track to be improved, it requires widening it and changing the profile of some corners (like turn 9) which either lose some character or are going to be very expensive due to their knock-on effects to run-off areas.

I would be happy however with them perhaps completely altering turn 1/2 to allow more of an overtaking fight and perhaps cleaner 1st laps. While its also great corner combination (with turn 3), I think I'd be willing to see that bit changed as I could see it helping overtaking a lot.
But turn 9 is too good of a corner to lose, being almost flat on that corner is somewhat of a thrill!

 

[kimi123]

As expected not much overtaking. RBR is super fast in the qualifying but in the race it is pretty close. Mercedes GP were slow. Alonso and MS had great start. It was good for a Spanish GP though. It is mostly boring races here.

 

[Alex p.]

He wasn't laughing at first akmuq.

??? I simply laughed at his comment. *Ding Ding Ring etc.*

I was totally LMAO over this. (Altough I'm a Seb-Supporter-*oll hail ze SS club*)

 

[F1 fan]

??? I simply laughed at his comment. *Ding Ding Ring etc.*

I was totally LMAO over this. (Altough I'm a Seb-supporter-*all hail to SS club*

akmuq implied peter's comments were meant as a joke. I was trying to point out his serious tone.

 

[Alex p.]

wonder why no one has mentioned anything about Michael Schumacher yet 6th and beating his teammate after what happened in Turkey he needs some big 👍 IMO

You are right man, Schumacher did fine today and to all Americans: it is not Shumacher, it's Schumacher.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I'll make sure to tell all Americans.

 

[Alex p.]

I'm glad you are going to do that, thank you. And yes, I should have said: To all non Germans. But when one thinks about non-educated people, it's always, well-Americans, my sub-conscious has been racist again, sorry dude.

(Do not want to start a war...oh wait...)

 

[Sureboss]

Turn 9 is one of the better corners! No, just revert the track to the non-chicaned version - the problem was even apparent with the super-long DRS that the cars simply lose too much ground in the chicane that they are not close enough on the straight.
The rest of the track is fine as it is, as I really don't see them making it better..only worse. For the rest of the track to be improved, it requires widening it and changing the profile of some corners (like turn 9) which either lose some character or are going to be very expensive due to their knock-on effects to run-off areas.

I would be happy however with them perhaps completely altering turn 1/2 to allow more of an overtaking fight and perhaps cleaner 1st laps. While its also great corner combination (with turn 3), I think I'd be willing to see that bit changed as I could see it helping overtaking a lot.
But turn 9 is too good of a corner to lose, being almost flat on that corner is somewhat of a thrill!

I agree, it is a good corner. But it shouldn't be at the detriment to the racing ability of the track, the run down to turn 10 isn't quite long enough, I don't know if they can make the straight a bit longer, I can see a bit of a looping hairpin at the end of that straight and a bit beyond, don't know if they could extend in to that area.

 

[Ardius]

It will be a truly sad day when we butcher tracks trying to find overtaking. Honestly, its actually good to have some tracks on the calendar where overtaking isn't as easy or possible but the track is more of a challenge to drive or challenges aerodynamics or whatever.
Catalunya, Hungaroring and Monaco don't provide much overtaking at all, but they are all brilliant tracks to drive and feature some of the best corners in F1. While yes its sometimes boring to watch races at these tracks, I don't really like the idea of "fixing" them. I think there is a place for tracks which aren't easy to overtake on.

Suzuka can sometimes be pretty boring too...but it would be heresy to change that layout!

I willing to let them change some corners, but some shouldn't be changed. In Catalunya's case, I'd rather them just revert to the old layout rather than change it.

 

[niky]

wonder why no one has mentioned anything about Michael Schumacher yet 6th and beating his teammate after what happened in Turkey he needs some big 👍 IMO

Was thinking about it, but with all the chaos in the midfield, I figure he was bound to get one race over Nico one of these days. But yes, he should be happy with this race after that disaster in Turkey.

On the other hand you could argue that Vettel was unable to pass a car (Alonsos Ferrari) that was at least a second per lap slower, at a time in the race where Vettel's DRS and KERS was working.

All Fernando, baby. He had the in-race pace to match McLaren and RBR. While he lost the lead fair and square, if he had just one more set of softs, he should have been able to salvage third or fourth. As it was, thanks to the qualifying kerfuffle, he was always going to be handicapped in terms of strategy. Sadly, if that Ferrari had its new wing, it may have given him the leeway Ferrari desperately need in qualifying to preserve their tires.

How many races now, have they used more tires than absolutely necessary in Qualifying? Embarrasing.

The whole race was embarrassing for everyone but RBR and McLaren. I mean how many times can you get lapped in an afternoon and still keep your pride? I think Massa's gearbox had the right idea. It was so disgusted with the Ferrari's race pace that it committed hara kiri.

-----

I'm loving the fact that we've had no full course yellows this season. This means who wins is determined by who has the best strategy, not who lucks out on the yellows. I think we have the tires to thank for this. Early in the stint, everyone is being cautious, trying to preserve the tires. As people lose grip and start snaking wide, they're not able to shut the door hard on the overtaking driver.

It's starting to look like MotoGP, actually. Which is a good thing.

 

[Ardius]

I honestly can't praise Schumacher for finishing 6th, but I will congragulate him on actually being on pace with his teammate for once though he did benefit from a much better strategy.
Whether his form continues we shall see, but the same thing happened last year - did well at Catalunya and Monaco and then fell back again.

It seems so laughable to me that its a now an event when Schumacher finishes ahead of his teammate. Says it all really.

It seems some people don't understand my (and others) lack of support for Schumachers efforts - as I see elsewhere that Brundle and DC are taking flak for being constantly critical. Basically - Schumacher has a reputation. One of beating all of his teammates, not by tenths, but by huge margins sometimes. My issue is and has always been this - obviously the point of hiring Schumacher is you get this reputation. If he can no longer beat teammates and struggle to even keep up, what is the point? People refer to Massa or Webber, but its different for them, those two are not expected to beat their teammates and for the most part do keep up or even beat Alonso and Vettel. And in any case, all three (Schumi, Massa, Webber) are currently talked about as being sacked at some point.
If Schumacher doesn't bring his immense ability to the table, why not just hire a young-gun who does? This is why I cannot praise Schumacher's performances, these are the results of a driver who is decent but needs to up his game, not the Michael Schumacher. People say that he is old, that we shouldn't expect him to be good anyway...but that brings us back in a circle to why even bring him back then?
Sure, its good results for a guy well over 40 competing against far younger drivers, but its nothing really to get excited about. And like I say, ignoring the guy's reputation makes it all a bit pointless.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Least exciting race of the year; few battles; Monaco in 7 days

 

[niky]

This is his make-or-break season. You could forgive one season off-form as he got back in shape and up-to-speed, but if he can't match Nico by the end of the year, he should walk. Mercedes GP aren't going to dump him... He's too good for marketing, but it'll be embarrassing for him to be handled with kid gloves.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Not everyone knows when its time to hang up the skates; or put away the racing suit.

Give him this season to see if he can get a podium; otherwise time to give another driver the seat for 2012.

 

[The Outlaw]

This is his make-or-break season. You could forgive one season off-form as he got back in shape and up-to-speed, but if he can't match Nico by the end of the year, he should walk. Mercedes GP aren't going to dump him... He's too good for marketing, but it'll be embarrassing for him to be handled with kid gloves.

I agree...if he generally continues to comprehensively get beaten by Nico by the end of this year, IMO I think he oughta just hang up his hat and call it a day. Although I must say I have the upmost respect for him to come back at his old age to do what he loves (can't take that away from him) and to take on such a huge challenge, while putting his reputation on the line...regardless of the outcome. And I certainly do admire his positive and optomistic outlook on things...especially after the miserable weekend @ Turkey (I would say he's bounced back a bit from that, after the result in Spain).

With every Grand Prix so far this year, I've realized not to get my hopes up to high (especially in qualy...where he hasn't been consistant), as often times you don't know what to expect with the current Schumacher. He shows great flashes of brillance, but has had quite a bit of bad luck this year as well as a few small, but costly mistakes (like his mistake at turn 1 in Q3 @ Turkey) that have painted a terrible (and a bit jaded IMO) picture of what he is capable of. He still has great speed at times, but just doesn't seem to be as consistant as Nico, or more importantly able to deliver (for whatever reason) in the crucial moments when it counts....but maybe/hopefully he will be able to turn it up as the season progresses.

Anyway, it would certainly be a great story if he can return to top form or at least to a very high level where he can be extremely competitive...because I don't think it's good for any sport when such a legend comes back only to fail, and put a question mark over his legacy and the history of the sport.

 

[niky]

I think he was hoping to make a Michael Jordan style comeback... Only he did the Washington Wizards-era Michael instead of the Bulls 45 one, by mistake.

And there's a good analogy there... In basketball you don't have to play the full forty five minutes... You can bench your old players for about half of the game and they'll still make the required 20, 30, 40 points. In F1, Michael has to be in the car and at the top of his game for a full two hours. A bit much to ask of a forty year old man. His natural talent shines through sometimes, but I can't help but feel that his lapses owe a lot to the fact that he just isn't in the shape that these guys are in.

I mean, look at ROC... In a venue where he doesn't have to put up with multiple G cornering forces, he still shines compared to other top flight drivers.

(Of course, the format doesn't allow them to trundle him off the track at every corner... )

 

[F1 fan]

I think you're exaggerating things a little there.

 

[Anghammarad]

At the same time, you could bring up Alonso and Petrov from Abu Dhabi. Petrov was too fast on the straight to pass, but his pace was quite slower than Alonso would have been able to achieve in clean air. You also seem to forget the possibility that Vettel could have been getting the fuel management stage out of the way before going for the undercut. I'm not saying he definitely did, I'm just saying it was a possibility. The fact is, you can laugh at Vettel all you want, but you're just being immature. And like the example I gave, Alonso has had some difficulties passing Petrov. Don't forget Turkey last year, where he had to resort to contact to get past.

You, my friend, are reading much to much into what was intended as a tounge in cheek post.

 

[Peter.]

Umm.... You do know it was a joke right?

This. I wasn't being serious.

 

[BobK]

Nobody else noticed a great drive by Nick Heidfeld, dead last start to eighth place finish?

Certainly the TV coverage missed it.

 

[Dan_]

With the way Felipe has performed since his return, he should feel lucky & honored that he even has a contract for next year to begin with (especially with a team of such high caliber/prestige). I like Felipe a lot as a person, but the honest truth is that his lack of talent is continually being exposed... and in this dog eat dog sport, his time is running out. I don't know why DiMontezemolo needs to be ciriticized either, as Felipe has no one to blame but himself 9 times out of 10 when he underperforms relative to his teammate in equal machinery (which is likely the thing that is really killing his confidence and self belief).

All the excuses are getting old IMO, especially when so many are trying to point the finger away from Felipe...by trying to claim that it is the teams lack of support which is causing him to underperform. I find the double standards when it comes to criticizing drivers to be quite annoying. So many get off on harping on Schumacher (being dismissive to any outside excuses) whenever he underperforms...yet whenever Felipe underperforms by a country mile there are so many waiting to fall back on the "blame Ferrari" excuse

Well, if my post misled you to think I'm pointing my finger away from Massa, I sincerely apologize, because I'm not. His performance is way down from Alonso's and even from his past seasons, don't get me wrong though, Ferrari did took him that title away with the refueling incident at Hong Kong and the consecutive(habitual is more appropriate) pit failures.

As for talent, well he isn't much more than Barrichello or Trulli or whichever other average driver on the grid, couple that to the way Ferrari is managing him and failing miserably both drivers in such hard moment and then you'll have the recipe for a loser. Time to move to a lesser team and give room to younger and more talented drivers? I think so.