Formula One Proposes Miami Grand Prix for 2019 Season

821
United States
Tennessee
tnfedexman
Not sure I'm interested in F1 anymore. Seems the whole thing is in shambles. Feuding manufactures, whinny drivers, and it doesn't apply to my driving. Why go?
 

adb

534
Poland
Poland
Makes me wonder, from now onwards, will street tracks be more like Baku, with low speed, low downforce, tight corners, but with a massive straight/flat out section? Especially with them trying to make racing more exciting, I feel the only way to do this on street circuits is to make them slipstream fests
 
1,476
United States
United States
Depends on if they want to have a party zone or an actual attempt at a race. Very very few street circuits seem aimed at actual racing. Baku is as close as we get to see an actual race take place on a street circuit which isn't just a procession (and it's still...mostly a procession).
 
183
United Kingdom
Birmingham
Wixon3000
I'd rather have another race at one of the many great US race tracks than a street circuit. I can't think of any of the previous F1 US street tracks that were any good.
 
1,476
United States
United States
The US has, arguably, the best racing tracks in the world. However, almost none of them are "F1" spec...in that they can't accommodate large fancy crowds of rich people/patrons. Instead we end up with stuff like COTA...(le sigh)
 
20,678
TenEightyOne
TenEightyOne
The US has, arguably, the best racing tracks in the world. However, almost none of them are "F1" spec...in that they can't accommodate large fancy crowds of rich people/patrons. Instead we end up with stuff like COTA...(le sigh)

It's not just about infrastructure (although that's important), it's about the flatness of the track, size of run-offs, accessibility for safety vehicles etc. etc.
 

Jimlaad43

GeoGuessr God
Premium
10,525
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
formula-e-miami-eprix-track-layout-project-2018-miami-eprix-track-layout-project-8280024.jpg
 

Robin

Premium
16,799
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
It's going to be Valencia all over again! Can't they find anywhere better in Miami to put it?
 
6,293
Canada
Canada
It's going to be Valencia all over again! Can't they find anywhere better in Miami to put it?
Have a look at a map of Miami, see what you can come up with lol.

Honestly...it might not be terrible.

People said Baku would be terrible when they looked at the circuit map.

The fact that they’re using the bridge over to Dog Island shows that there will be fairly significant elevation change...that bridge is a good 50’ in the air, probably more.

The scenery will be rather spectacular, with the marina right under the bridge, the skyscrapers of downtown Miami, and Miami Beach and the crazy rich islands in the distance.

Looking at a super simplistic map like the one we have, it’s really tough to tell how good the circuit will be for racing, as we can’t see actual apexes, street widths, etc.

I spent at least a few hours looking at maps of Miami, and couldn’t come up with anything as good as the proposal - I had looked at Dog Island, but figured shutting down the main bridge to the Port of Miami would be a no go...turns out I was wrong :lol:

Edit: forgot to add, the thing that Miami does have going for it, as far as hosting races, is unpredictable weather. Similar to Malaysia, downpoors can roll in out of nowhere, drench the city for 15-30 minutes, and then its back to blue sky. Could make for some interesting racing.
 
11,092
England
Bromley
V16T91
E0nLeader
Why are so many godawful layouts put into practice in American F1? Phoenix had it. Caesars Palace had it. There's others too, like Champ Car's San Jose. And this'll join them if ever it comes to pass. Sometimes I do think Chase Carey only acknowledges the existence of his country, and nowhere else.
 

Northstar

The Original Party Worm
Premium
23,486
United States
Anoka, MN
RokkitShipp
Why are so many godawful layouts put into practice in American F1?

Our population centers are mostly laid out in grids so it's hard to have a decent layout.

Sometimes I do think Chase Carey only acknowledges the existence of his country, and nowhere else.

I don't think he's alone in wanting to tap into the U.S. market considering how many chances we have had at having GP's. It's a massive market that could net an insane amount of money if they ever really got a following, so I can see why they have been willing to give it more chances than they probably should.
 
6,293
Canada
Canada
Why are so many godawful layouts put into practice in American F1? Phoenix had it. Caesars Palace had it. There's others too, like Champ Car's San Jose. And this'll join them if ever it comes to pass. Sometimes I do think Chase Carey only acknowledges the existence of his country, and nowhere else.
How do you know it will be terrible? Were you one who was convinced that Baku would be terrible?

What specific features make it terrible? The four 90’ corners (4 of about 15 turns in total)? The long straights with good passing opportunities? The bland backdrop?

I mean, you’ve seen a line drawn on a piece of paper, and your 100% sure already.....


And why do France, Belgium, Germany, Austria, Italy, Monaco, Spain all need to have a Grand Prix, but the entire continent of North America has 3 F1 races, and South America has 1...and Africa has none. Why does “each country needs an F1 race” matter, why not X number of races per population demographic?

Let’s say 25 races per season, why not 5 races per continent?

Is having 10 races in Europe because of some invisible lines drawn on a map by some rich prick a few hundred years ago really that important?
 
6,470
United Kingdom
Southampton
RacingAtHome
Africa has none
There's Kyalami and Marrakech in terms of known race circuits. That's about it and Marrakech isn't really suitable for F1.

And why do France, Belgium, Germany, Austria, Italy, Monaco, Spain all need to have a Grand Prix, but the entire continent of North America has 3 F1 races, and South America has 1...and Africa has none. Why does “each country needs an F1 race” matter, why not X number of races per population demographic?
If you did that, 1/4 of the races would be in China and India.

Is having 10 races in Europe because of some invisible lines drawn on a map by some rich prick a few hundred years ago really that important?
Europe is where the teams are based and the FIA is based.

I'm intrigued as to what your calendar would look like.
 
6,293
Canada
Canada
There's Kyalami and Marrakech in terms of known race circuits. That's about it and Marrakech isn't really suitable for F1.
I suppose it’s impossible to build a new circuit? It’s not like Malaysia, China, Korea, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Valencia, Singapore, COTA, Turkey, etc at exactly “old circuits” like spa and silverstone.

If you did that, 1/4 of the races would be in China and India.
And?

Europe is where the teams are based and the FIA is based.

I'm intrigued as to what your calendar would look like.
I don’t have a calander in mind...I just don’t see why people get so hung up on the “1 race per country” thing.

And majority of the time, it’s Europeans who are the most hung up on it.
 
6,470
United Kingdom
Southampton
RacingAtHome
I suppose it’s impossible to build a new circuit? It’s not like Malaysia, China, Korea, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Valencia, Singapore, COTA, Turkey, etc at exactly “old circuits” like spa and silverstone.
I never said that. I said what the current options were.

I don’t have a calander in mind...I just don’t see why people get so hung up on the “1 race per country” thing.
I'm not. America's big enough in terms of size and potential market to have multiple races. I wouldn't say that about India for example.
 
11,366
Finland
Intercourse, PA
Carbonox
Taking F1 even further away from where the bulk of its fanbase are geographically located, even if it means building a bunch of new soulless circuits instead of using ones that already exist and are perfectly capable. Sounds like a great idea.
 
6,293
Canada
Canada
Taking F1 even further away from where the bulk of its fanbase are geographically located, even if it means building a bunch of new soulless circuits instead of using ones that already exist and are perfectly capable. Sounds like a great idea.
Could it be possible that the majority of fans are in Europe because most races are held in Europe?

An entire country the size of China is supposed to get excited about F1 because they have 1 race?

You remind me of Canadian hockey fans who say the NHL has no business having teams in LA, Vegas, Nashville, etc, because majority of the guys on those teams are from Canada, and therefor Moosejaw, Cranbrook, Trois Rivière, and Dildo Newfoundland should all have NHL teams.

Times change, things evolve. And besides, most people watch F1 on TV. They could have a race on the moon, everyone would still see it.
 

Famine

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
74,353
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
Let’s say 25 races per season, why not 5 races per continent?

Is having 10 races in Europe because of some invisible lines drawn on a map by some rich prick a few hundred years ago really that important?
Logistics. Or, to put it another way, spending money.


Mercedes is based in Brackley, UK. Ferrari is based in Maranello, Italy. Red Bull is based in Milton Keynes, UK. Renault is based in Enstone, UK. McLaren is based in Woking, UK. Force India is based in Silverstone, UK. Toro Rosso is based in Faenza, Italy. Williams is based in Grove, UK. Sauber is based in Hinwil, Switzerland.

Only Haas - a very recent addition to the grid - is based outside of this large circle (440mi radius):

f1-logistics.jpg


The smaller circle there, for reference, covers six of the ten teams and has a 30 mile radius. And Haas has a European base in Banbury, also within that smaller circle.

That large circle also covers eight of this year's nine European races. Only the Hungaroring is outside that circle.

Logistically, it is easier to get the cars, drivers, team personnel, equipment, broadcast media, race officials and personnel, and everything to do with the F1 circus to and from these eight European races. DHL - the series logistics partner - has a fleet of six Boeing 747s that it uses to transport almost all of the teams' equipment to the flyaway races, but just uses trucks within Europe.

Moreover, the combined distance for a team like Mercedes, in that top small circle, to get to and from the nine European races is approximately 9,000 miles. We can assume that's representative (the two Italian teams have a shorter distance for Monaco, Le Castellet, Barcelona and Spielberg, the seven UK teams have a shorter distance for Silverstone, Spa and Hockenheim), so for the nine European teams, the European Grands Prix cost about 80,000 miles.

The nine European teams rack up nearly a million miles a year of travelling to and from races. Even allowing for the Hungaroring - which is only just outside the circle - to reduce the average distance, it's more than 9,000 miles of travel for each of the races outside this circle. And that means that each "flyaway" race is, on average, as great a distance as the eight European ones are combined. And that's accounting for the fact that some races will double-up so there's no need to fly back and out again.


It's not really to do with rich pricks drawing lines in places centuries ago. It's logistics and the expense of it all, combined with the traditions of the sport that means all the teams are concentrated where they are.

And why do France, Belgium, Germany, Austria, Italy, Monaco, Spain all need to have a Grand Prix, but the entire continent of North America has 3 F1 races, and South America has 1...and Africa has none. Why does “each country needs an F1 race” matter, why not X number of races per population demographic?
Couple of interesting examples in there. France hasn't had a Grand Prix in a decade until this season. The Austrian Grand Prix has dropped off the calendar twice since 1987, missing 17 years. Italy (Monza, Imola), Spain (Barcelona, Valencia and Jerez) and Germany (Nurburgring, Hockenheim) have all repeatedly held two Grands Prix a season across the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s, as has the UK (Silverstone, Donington, Brands Hatch) which you didn't mention. Commonly they're labelled as something else - European Grand Prix, or San Marino Grand Prix, or Luxembourg Grand Prix - but they're still geographically in a nation with another Grand Prix of its own.

Nevertheless, it comes down to a combination of what you're talking about (fair distribution) and what I mentioned above (logistics). And tracks. And branding.

It makes sense to have so many grands prix in Europe on a logistical basis. However it doesn't make sense to hold them all in the UK simply because six (seven if you include Haas) of the ten are based in the UK, because then the non-British teams are doing all the travelling and only UK consumers get to see it. So the races are held around Europe, within that big, 440-mile circle that also contains the teams. As there's many countries within that circle, it makes sense to distribute them around the countries.

It also doesn't make sense to have them all in the UK, because we don't have many Grade I (F1) circuits. We did have, but Donington practically died trying to bring its facilities up to modern standards and Brands Hatch simply didn't bother (not that I'm sure it can). But then not many countries do - there are 36 of them worldwide, and 17 are in Europe (not including Azerbaijan or Russia). Those 17 are distributed across 10 nations, and only one nation does not hold a Grand Prix. Portugal (Estoril), if you're interested.

Now, if I were interested in fair distribution but also mindful of logistics, I'd say "Okay, hold one race in each of those ten nations.". And... F1 kinda does that.

It also makes the branding easier. This race is "The British Grand Prix". This race is "The Hungarian Grand Prix". This race is "The German Grand Prix". It stops the waters being muddied, like when the sport had a US Grand Prix in New York (which eventually didn't happen), the US Grand Prix West in Long Beach, the US Grand Prix (East) at Watkins Glen, the Detroit Grand Prix and the Caesar's Palace Grand Prix - sometimes having three of these races run in a single season. Branding is very important to F1.


So why does the sport do "flyaway" races at all? Well, the same reason it still holds a race at Monaco, which is hideously unsuited to F1 racing: tradition (Brazil, Australia, Japan, Canada); glitz and glamour (Singapore, Abu Dhabi); and a metric butt-tonne of cash (Azerbaijan, China, Russia).

Yes, it's absolutely worth expanding into new markets but, as we've seen, sometimes it doesn't work. With countries paying a small fortune to create a Grade I circuit and Bernie's business model of charging them several million a race which they try and fail to recoup with ruinously expensive tickets (Bernie didn't care that the GDP/capita of India is 3% of that of Singapore), it wasn't sustainable.

Perhaps Liberty's way of doing things is different, but on the past experience of Korea, India, Malaysia and China - all of which still have a Grade I circuit - there's not many African countries I can see that would be queuing up to join them. South Africa is the only one that could carry it off with minimal investment, as Kyalami is already Grade 2 and the right sort of length. There's only a handful of other race tracks in the continent, and only a couple outside of South Africa, but none have an FIA grading.

And that's probably why Liberty is looking to have a few more races in the USA, where this kind of investment isn't a problem. And on street circuits so they don't have to be built. Although how it'll sort the branding out I don't know.