- 164
This is for what?! Giving me crap for what?! I'm not allowed to stand up for Forza in a sea of hate?! I thought this was America! Huh? Isn't this America?! I'm sorry! I thought this was America!
Forza 3: Leaving A Delayed GT 5 In The Pits
- Thread starter Simple SIM
- 274 comments
- 27,206 views
This is for what?! Giving me crap for what?! I'm not allowed to stand up for Forza in a sea of hate?! I thought this was America! Huh? Isn't this America?! I'm sorry! I thought this was America!
- 2,523
- South Florida
- Organ-Donor
Whatever makes you happy. And this is hardly a 'sea of hate' here. Maybe in your mind everyone is out to get you but its far more unbiased here than other places you look. Besides this is a Gran Turismo site, not a 'gotta defend Forza and find faults with GT' site.
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- 164
Everything you or I say is heresay until GT is released anyway, so it doesn't matter either way.
- 2,523
- South Florida
- Organ-Donor
What does that have to do with anything? We were never talking about facts or speculation. Point is you are a troll and try to disguise your biased statements and pass them off as unbiased, but I can see right through that. Most of your replys are finding flaws with GT and pro's with Forza 3. Either way Forza 3 is great in its own right as GT5 will be too. I'm just putting you in your place where you belong. I'm just tired of all these GT5, Forza 3 comparisons.
You should just spend more time on the Forza forums and less time here, people here actually enjoy GT and are looking foward to it. They arent trying to spend all their time defending Forza and bashing GT in subtle ways.
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- 103
America is a forum?
You assume that all the people in here are from America. Ops. Тъп си бате.
This thread is going nowhere. I think that the power that be should intervene.
Seismica
Premium
- 4,346
- Guisborough
- GTP_Seismica
The only problem i find with the GT AI is that that form a line right from the start. But the majority of the races in Prologue are rolling starts, whereas in GT4, you noticed they all moved into a line right off the start line.
About the AI knowing where you are on the track on FM3, thats utter BS. They will still ram you if you come out of a corner slow, and they will still swipe you if you try and overtake them on a corner. Infact in terms of player awareness, its about the same as GT.
And If you look at F1 races, they all follow the same line, and both FM3 and GT5P have the AI overtaking eachother.
I don't see what the problem is with the AI on either games, except for the grid start on GT, but thats probably fixed, idk, i can't remember the last time i did a grid start on prologue.
About the AI knowing where you are on the track on FM3, thats utter BS. They will still ram you if you come out of a corner slow, and they will still swipe you if you try and overtake them on a corner. Infact in terms of player awareness, its about the same as GT.
And If you look at F1 races, they all follow the same line, and both FM3 and GT5P have the AI overtaking eachother.
I don't see what the problem is with the AI on either games, except for the grid start on GT, but thats probably fixed, idk, i can't remember the last time i did a grid start on prologue.
- 84,446
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Metacritic.com
So, for games scoring a Metarating of 80% or better...
XBox360 exclusives: 35
PS3 exclusives: 37
And two of those XBox360 exclusives are about to be released for PS3 as well (making it 33:37 sometime next week). For reference, I've removed from the lists games available for one console but not the other but also available on another medium (PC, Wii/DS, iPhone).
Please stop making flamebait posts based on information you know to be untrue.
- 2,523
- South Florida
- Organ-Donor
^^ Amen. Thank you moderator.
I see you guys have a lot to say and it's good to see you get it off your chest.
Long hard day at work. My daughter's gone to sleep, the woman is having a shower and now plaiting her hair, and I had a couple of beers and read this thread. Comedy gold! Thank you, made me forget about the stress at work.👍
Long hard day at work. My daughter's gone to sleep, the woman is having a shower and now plaiting her hair, and I had a couple of beers and read this thread. Comedy gold! Thank you, made me forget about the stress at work.👍
- 2,523
- South Florida
- Organ-Donor
I see you guys have a lot to say and it's good to see you get it off your chest.
Long hard day at work. My daughter's gone to sleep, the woman is having a shower and now plaiting her hair, and I had a couple of beers and read this thread. Comedy gold! Thank you, made me forget about the stress at work.👍
👍 I'm just calling that guy out for being a troll in disguise. He wants people to believe he isn't biased against GT but he clearly is deep down. I give credit where credit is due and I believe both Forza and Gran Turismo are great games in their own right, and have no problem with him defending his precious Forza but he is spending 95% of his time finding faults with Gran Turismo and boasting about Forza. And his "360 has better games anyway" comment pushed me over the edge and made quite clear what he is: a troll in disguise.
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- 713
- UK
I think it's true that in the past the PS3 did struggle with good exclusives, but it is 100% now up there with the 360, and if, as you have, you don't include any titles aslo available on PC, then the PS3 edges ahead.
Of course, if you ignore the PC as it's not a console and I'd wager the majority of console owners don't play these titles on their PC's, the balance does shift back to the 360, albeit, it's still not enough to warrant any outlandish claims that the PS3 is in anyway lacking in any way..
So both are looking healthy IMO.
But it's all numbers at the end of the day, even in outright games, the PS3 is catching up nicely, I think the current >80% metacritic scores are around 167 Vs 131..
On just about every front I can think of the PS3 cannot be attacked for lacking in anything.. other then possibly we'd all like it to be cheaper
- 84,446
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Indeed, the numbers can be massaged this way and that - I excluded PCs on the grounds of the definition of the word "exclusive".
There were 14 more games available for the 360 and not the PS3, but available for the PC, Wii/DS and/or iPhones (in the last case, usually XBLA games) - and a number available for PS3 and PC, but not 360 (which I found odd).
Curiously there was a small number of games available for 360 and PS2, but not PS3 - usually the tosh sports games EA releases every year with some new names. I found that marginally interesting, but also excluded these games - my PS3 plays PS2 games, so I can play these games alongside someone with a 360 and the same game.
However, no amount of massaging of numbers will ever generate this:
JakeCourtney
Both machines have good exclusive titles. Both machines have a similar number of 90%+ and 80%+ exclusive games. Both machines have a similar number of 80%+ downloadable (PSN/XBLA) games.
Which gives only two possibilities for the above statement. First is actual ignorance - really not knowing any better. Second is feigned ignorance - pretending not to know any better... Essentially, dumb or troll.
- 84,446
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
I gave him a 10pt Infraction a couple of weeks ago - he made a large textwall post which was, generally, correctly spelled and punctuated and, as such, obviously not written by him (it was regarding a new car just announced). After a request to cite his source like every other thread in the Auto News forum went completely ignored, I told him not to make another post on the site until he had. He PMed me a protest to say I couldn't do that because it wasn't against the AUP and I PMed back to show that, in fact, it was. 12 hours passed and he thought I might have forgotten, so he made a post elsewhere and I hit him up with the 10pts.
Sadly, that took him to his 30pt limit - having previously been issued 2 Warnings and 2 Infractions by 4 completely different moderators, none of which were me.
Naturally, this was my fault (similarly the other Warnings and Infractions weren't his fault either), so he registered a new account called "famineisatosser" and tried to post a bunch of crap like that on my Visitor Messages. Several more accounts came and went with similar behaviour. He tried to make a thread to show everyone just how mean I am - which pretty much showed that he was a pitiful, whining brat instead.
Right now he's pretending to be someone else and behaving as he ought (which is all we ask anyway). One of these days he'll have another spack-attack and I'll have a new signature from him.
I do like the part about being my #1 online enemy. Because angry words bashed into a keyboard really bother me. Given that I know his full name, address and course supervisor at his university, he should be reasonably glad I'm not his #1 online enemy...
Sadly, that took him to his 30pt limit - having previously been issued 2 Warnings and 2 Infractions by 4 completely different moderators, none of which were me.
Naturally, this was my fault (similarly the other Warnings and Infractions weren't his fault either), so he registered a new account called "famineisatosser" and tried to post a bunch of crap like that on my Visitor Messages. Several more accounts came and went with similar behaviour. He tried to make a thread to show everyone just how mean I am - which pretty much showed that he was a pitiful, whining brat instead.
Right now he's pretending to be someone else and behaving as he ought (which is all we ask anyway). One of these days he'll have another spack-attack and I'll have a new signature from him.
I do like the part about being my #1 online enemy. Because angry words bashed into a keyboard really bother me. Given that I know his full name, address and course supervisor at his university, he should be reasonably glad I'm not his #1 online enemy...
Seismica
Premium
- 4,346
- Guisborough
- GTP_Seismica
Famine, what's that quote in your signature? I understand you made a lot of friends on GTP along the years as a moderator, but that Dan guy seems to be in love with you.
I think its because he out-trolls forum trolls, but backs his arguments up with facts and statistics, which is a low blow on an internet forum, whereby most arguments are based on opinion
And we all respect him for that
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
This is what I was going to post.
I haven't found a remarkable bot in a racing game yet, either on console or PC, All of them behave relatively well until you get into a battle in a turn, or even a straight in many cases, and then they all tend to become bratty children. F3 is no exception.
I've given up hope in finding anyone arguing one game's A.I. over another to be worthwhile.
I've pointed out several examples in replays of them giving racing room. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they may not be able to, they are working within the same physics grip confines as you are. Sometimes they do barrel into parked cars, but usually they avoid it. The GT AIs don't even try.
And if you look at BTCC races they spend more time ramming each other sideways than racing. Different racing series have different driving styles, and F1's tendency to fall into line astern with no overtaking is a result of their heavy use of aerodynamics and open-wheeled nature. Why is this even relevant?
Seismica
Premium
- 4,346
- Guisborough
- GTP_Seismica
Fair point i suppose. But if i was in a race, i would try and block my opponent from going past in the corners, i wouldn't give them racing room. You see plenty of examples (in real life) of racers forcing eachother off the track, and even more examples of collisions resulting from the second car not giving in to being forced off the track. Having only played the FM3 demo twice, cut me some slack. What i said before was just my observation, i broke far too late, missed the apex, came out slow and got rammed by the car behind. Theres plenty of replay evidence to show players overtaking on the inside of a corner, and getting spun in the process.
I suppose if you say sometimes they give racing room, just having that variance in there leans a little further towards realism than GT, but there are similar instances in GT of the AI giving room, maybe not as a result of you being there (maybe just understeer), but it does happen.
I was just pointing out, it would be ridiculous to say AI is bad in either game just because they stick to a line. I think at some point someone said it was bad AI to drive in a line, but they are supposed to...?
- 202
- YossiGab , GTP_YossiGab
For me, a good AI doesn't mean that it drives exactly on the correct line or not, or whether it's easy to pass him or not (some people might say that if it's hard to pass the AI then it means he is good and I totally disagree).
For me, a GOOD AI means that if I'm looking at replay it will be very hard to distinguish whether the car was driven by the computer or human driver.
Of course it all depends on the game level (beginner...expert), but basically, they both should be more or like at the same quality, same mistakes (from time to time), late braking, offense/defense driving (depends on current place) etc. Exactly like the "Turing Test" for computers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test)
SuperCobraJet
(Banned)
- 2,472
- Virginia USA
- SuperCobraJet1
I would extent that to practically any argument of one game over another, particularly F3 and GT5.
Regaurdless of the differences, the basic fact is if you are a console racing game enthusiast, between the top two games, you can play one by the end of this month and/or the other somewhere around March. Assuming you have, or if not, aquire the required console.
Critiques aside, ultimately thats the choice.
Seismica
Premium
- 4,346
- Guisborough
- GTP_Seismica
If you have both consoles, buy both games. If you have been a fan of the GT series since the beginning, you will probably appreciate GT5 a lot more than FM3. But you will enjoy playing Forza, just because they're the same genre doesn't mean you have to only buy one of them.
Me? i own neither console. My Brother has a PS3, which i use to play Prologue. By March i hope to have the cash to buy a PS3 slim, a 32inch HD TV and a G25/G27. So around £700-£1000 really :/
- 4,323
What about Toca 2/3? That was some really fun pack racing, aware AI.
- 54
- EAsports017
i wouldnt be too concerned, once GT5 comes out all forza players will regret ever buying a 360
- 40,422
Because the 360 has no good games amiright?
Viper Racing (turns 11 years old this year) had AI that raced so competitively they could (and depending on the realism level, would often) crash each other out of contention.
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
These types of posts have no place here. Please refrain from fueling the fire of the flamewar. GT5 is going to be a great game, of that I am sure. But, FM3 (at least the dome that I have played) is also a GOOD GAME. Now please stop this nonsensical blabbery...
Maybe this has already been said but I didn't want to read that many pages...I don't believe FM and GT are direct competitors. They'll be compared but they don't compete. As people have said; most people knew a long time ago which game they'd buy. The only mistake I see is that they're missing Christmas and the large number of people that can't afford a 60 dollar game unless it's a gift. For us older people, we'll buy it whenever it comes out.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
While that isn't entirely true, there are a number of people who will throw out landmine posts to cause trouble... like one previous.
But there have actually been some good discussions of strengths and weaknesses of different racing games among a number of members here. You just have to tread lightly, and you can count on a few pillows and water balloons being thrown by any and everyone after a flamebait post by someone.
Toca actually has respectable A.I., if a little bland. In other words, the bots in the lead were fairly fast and all were pretty courteous. I'd stack up what I've experienced of bot A.I. like this:
On straights: all bots drive well. Except...
- Almost all games have bots which will bump you if you're going too slow; Toca's least of all, GT1-4 the most.
- If you're going faster then the bot in front, the bot will occasionally yield in PC sims - although seldom in Live For Speed, will sometimes yield in Toca, will yield briefly in Ferrari Challenge and then ram right into you before you can fully pass, and never yield in GT1-4, or Forza that I can recall.
- Forza 1 is unique in having bots which learn how you treat them. FM1 A.I. is a wild experiment in A.I. coding in which the bots have the personalities of teenagers. If you drive nicely and rarely bump them, they will generally respect you, although they will ram you if they "feel" like it. If you bash your way through them, they become murderous tards, and surprisingly, they will even gang up on you! I witnessed some amazingly devious tactics from them because the first race, I didn't respect them too much and ground my way past a few of them, and they never forgot it. I had to start a new profile in order to have decent racing in later stages.
Around turns: there can be trouble here.
- Toca is fairly polite, usually drifting out of your way and seldom rubbing metal.
- Ferrari Challenge bots tend to hold onto the line with a death grip, but won't ram you too often.
- PC sims are usually like Toca, but there can be moments of agression and bumping.
- Bots in Live For Speed, Forza and Gran Turismo will hardly ever acknowledge your presence, and will ram you if you're too slow or getting into their line.
- Forza 1 bots are anyone's guess.
Through chicanes: this is usually very bad.
- Only in Toca games do they take chicanes like race drivers would. Every other game I've ever seen is something of a bashfest.
- Once again, beware the Forza 1 bots. Anything is possible.
I'd have to add that Toca does seem to have some of the worst rubberbanding I've ever seen - if you get a lead, they will usually catch up at some point. However, Forza's bots in both versions have bots that tend to give up and cruise if you get a 10 second lead on them for a length of time. Gran Turismo unfortunately has "rabbit" cars which occasionally pop up, in which a car will be driven to 100% of its capacity, or more, and are nearly impossible to catch.
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