Lift off oversteer in FWD cars is actually the biggest flaw in GT5 in my mind. Even putting on harder tires in the back, doesn't even begin to come close to real life lift off oversteer in fx a Peugeot 206 gti. In the game you can pretty much go full on the brakes while dropping the clutch into a lower gear whilst turning in, without much more happening than a little oversteer and tire squeal. It would result in a violent spin in real life...I witnessed it several times on the Ring with my friend driving a bit beyond his ability in his 206 gti and getting a taste of the Nurburgring Armco...
I love GT5 to bits, and hope the Forza users feel the same about their game...
I own a 207 GTi which I bring to time attack trackdays time to time. In GT5, I can say it handles very accurate (without any aids, ABS OFF, BB=3-1), cornering and braking are simulated quite well, on comfort medium tyres, so I don't know which physics engine is better or not, which tyre model is the worst or if even there is a tyre model, but which I can feel in real life, I can feel on GT5, at least on my car model.
I race 125cc karts aswell, and I can say GT5 simulation on karts is not real at all. You have A LOT of grip on GT5 which doesn't translate to the real counterpart in terms of feel. May be it's a compromise taken by the fact you really need to feel on your butt what a kart is doing and what it's going to do the next millisecond, I don't know, but it doesn't feels like the real one. On a real kart you have to fight the wheel a lot finding for grip in corners while accelerating. On GT5 it's not the same.
I've played sim racing titles since Grand Prix saga by Geoff Crammond back on mid 90th. For the last ten years I've been playing rFactor, iRacing, rFactor2 beta, all of these on PC, and bought the PS3 only to play GT5 because I wanted something different.
The main problem on all of these sims / semi sims is the lack of your body feel. G forces, the suspension feel on your "seat", and of course the fear factor.
The so called hardcore sims (rFactor, iRacing) can have the better physics engine (took three full years to Kraemer to develop a new tyre model for latest iRacing patch, in example), but there is no way you can fully enjoy these premium physics if you can't feel the car. These sims feel a lot slipery, as is you are racing on ice. The physics engine and tyre model can be very accurate, but without feeling at the car forces they seems to be very difficult to master, and not at a par whith the real life counterpart.
Which I found on GT5 is a great compromise between feel and handling (compared to my real car, of course) which makes me enjoy GT5 more than others sims out there.
Sadly I can't test Forza because I own a G27 and the lack of support for it made me took the decision to buy a PS3, so I can't compare Forza against GT5 and the other sims I've tested before.
Anyway, I think GT5 is pretty good when you set it with no aids, ABS off and a proper brake bias for each car, and on any comfort tyres (any tyre beyond sports hard seems to have too much grip level and makes it unrealistic)
By no means I say hardcore sims are innacurate, only I say they feel very difficult to drive without feeling the car forces, may be due to the very accuracy they get from the physics engine, so I prefer to drive on a more enjoyable one and on one which I can feel something similar to which my own car does on the track. Force feedback in rFactor, in example, is not good at all, so you can't feel properly what's going under the tyres, making it difficult to control and feel even when the physics engine and tyre model is very accurate. You can have the better tyre model, but if you can't feel you are about to lose the rear end, then that accurate tyre model is a waste.
I trend to speak in terms of "a package". That "package" includes physics, tyre model, accuracy of tracks and cars, and more important to me, the feel what a car does and is going to do. If the latest is wrong, then the "package" is seriously hurted, but if all of these items are regular but well balanced, I have the best choice looking for an enjoyable driving on a sim.
Of course, it's my opinion and my feelings on the subject. Please excuse my English, it's not my natural language.
Have a nice day.
.....not biased at all...
