Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[omgitsbees]

I experience next to zero frame drops or tearing. The occasional framedrop in heavy traffic, but almost no screen tearing. What are you doing when you tend to experience it the most?

You just don't know what to look for then. It's there on every track and once you notice it, you'll always see it and it's very distracting.

 

[VXR]

Smoke the tyres on Forza 4 and turn the free-cam to look at the nearside profile and it experiences slowdown, too.

 

[artboy76]

After


Before


The second vid is by one of the best drifters in GT5 and yes he is Japanese.
As you said there is some pixelation but it is better and the amount of smoke in that second vid in my opinion is just crazy. I dont know how he got so much smoke.

Vids are a bit....meh...very dull.....

this is more like it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qliXt8kFS9k

 

[Northstar]

Both games fail miserably at smoke. GT5 takes a "one size fits all" approach and just has the same amount no matter what. Forza 4 has cotton balls coming out of the tires.

Language Warning? (I don't speak Japanese so I just want to cover myself)

 

[omgitsbees]

Smoke the tyres on Forza 4 and turn the free-cam to look at the nearside profile and it experiences slowdown, too.

Ooh wow, slow down that is very specific and in a camera position that no one is going to use during normal gameplay. GT5 has slowdown and screen tearing all the time, whether it be in the cockpit view, or 3rd person chase cam, just simply playing the game, there are performance issues.

 

[VXR]

I'm just trying to keep the balance of this thread impartial. I've noticed it more in 4 than I did in 3, anyway.

And for the record, my allegiance lies firmly with the Forza series.

 

[high_end]

Ive experienced screen tearing from games like halo 1 on pc and many other fps shooters from then (10 yrs ago) to now...ive never thought gt5 tearing was anything remotely as bad as that...i remember having to drop my resolution in quake 3 to 800x600 and messing with vsync settings to avoid all tearing and remain competitive...so different strokes i guess...i heard the tearing is less so now in 2D but ive always experienced none or very close to none while in 3D...in 2D for the short time ive experienced the tearing was never bad enough for me to post on a message board about it...the jaggies in forza though bothered me in the first 2 minutes after playing the demo when it came out and i went straight toa message board asking if the retail version would also be bad and if forza 3 was also just as jaggy...and when i picked up gt5 the first day i switched back n forth between both games to see how they compare in antialiasing and while both had it forza was just double in how much it jumped out at me...also believe the lighting from the sun in forza magnifies the way it looks...if gt5 lighting were similar its possible that its jaggies could be alot worse. Im not even talking about jaggies on standard cars or even forzas cars...im talking about everything else where theres supposed to be a consistent straight or curved line like tracks, road stripes, lakes, fences, the horizon...it just really bothered me instantly and was a big factor in me taking an interest in what gt5 had to offer...remember on a 73" tv everything is clearly seen so maybe others have not experienced the bad aliasing if they are using smaller sets

 

[PzR Slim]

Ive experienced screen tearing from games like halo 1 on pc and many other fps shooters from then (10 yrs ago) to now...ive never thought gt5 tearing was anything remotely as bad as that...i remember having to drop my resolution in quake 3 to 800x600 and messing with vsync settings to avoid all tearing and remain competitive...so different strokes i guess...i heard the tearing is less so now in 2D but ive always experienced none or very close to none while in 3D...in 2D for the short time ive experienced the tearing was never bad enough for me to post on a message board about it...the jaggies in forza though bothered me in the first 2 minutes after playing the demo when it came out and i went straight toa message board asking if the retail version would also be bad and if forza 3 was also just as jaggy...and when i picked up gt5 the first day i switched back n forth between both games to see how they compare in antialiasing and while both had it forza was just double in how much it jumped out at me...also believe the lighting from the sun in forza magnifies the way it looks...if gt5 lighting were similar its possible that its jaggies could be alot worse. Im not even talking about jaggies on standard cars or even forzas cars...im talking about everything else where theres supposed to be a consistent straight or curved line like tracks, road stripes, lakes, fences, the horizon...it just really bothered me instantly and was a big factor in me taking an interest in what gt5 had to offer...remember on a 73" tv everything is clearly seen so maybe others have not experienced the bad aliasing if they are using smaller sets

Not commenting on your opinion but where did you learn that sentences end with three full stops and begin with a lower case letter? It really makes reading your opinion difficult.

 

[omgitsbees]

Ive experienced screen tearing from games like halo 1 on pc and many other fps shooters from then (10 yrs ago) to now...ive never thought gt5 tearing was anything remotely as bad as that...i remember having to drop my resolution in quake 3 to 800x600 and messing with vsync settings to avoid all tearing and remain competitive...so different strokes i guess...i heard the tearing is less so now in 2D but ive always experienced none or very close to none while in 3D...in 2D for the short time ive experienced the tearing was never bad enough for me to post on a message board about it...the jaggies in forza though bothered me in the first 2 minutes after playing the demo when it came out and i went straight toa message board asking if the retail version would also be bad and if forza 3 was also just as jaggy...and when i picked up gt5 the first day i switched back n forth between both games to see how they compare in antialiasing and while both had it forza was just double in how much it jumped out at me...also believe the lighting from the sun in forza magnifies the way it looks...if gt5 lighting were similar its possible that its jaggies could be alot worse. Im not even talking about jaggies on standard cars or even forzas cars...im talking about everything else where theres supposed to be a consistent straight or curved line like tracks, road stripes, lakes, fences, the horizon...it just really bothered me instantly and was a big factor in me taking an interest in what gt5 had to offer...remember on a 73" tv everything is clearly seen so maybe others have not experienced the bad aliasing if they are using smaller sets

Look, i'm not a mod or anything, I can't tell you what to do, but this post is beyond ridiculous and i'm not even going to try to make an effort to read or understand it.

Even if there isn't a rule that says you need to make an attempt to not butcher the english language; No one is going to read this or take you seriously if this is going to be a regular thing with you.

 

[Terronium-12]

high_end, as has been alluded to, and included in ForzaPlanet's AUP:

You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters.

Ellipses are not to be confused with commas or periods, or even a semi-colon for that matter. The next time you present a statement/post in such a manner it will be deleted.

 

[high_end]

Sorry i'm getting used to this new galaxy tab and its not easyusing touchscreen keyboard. I'll try to take my time or just use my desktop when coming to this site. I kind of just try to get my thoughts out and input them. Making corrections is sort of a pain. Just trying tomake use of this xmas present.

 

[PzR Slim]

Sorry i'm getting used to this new galaxy tab and its not easyusing touchscreen keyboard. I'll try to take my time or just use my desktop when coming to this site. I kind of just try to get my thoughts out and input them. Making corrections is sort of a pain. Just trying tomake use of this xmas present.

No problem. Was just really difficult to read to your post.

 

[omgitsbees]

The one thing that continues to hurt my experience with Forza is not having a racing wheel that I can use for it. I hate Microsoft so much for choosing not to support Logitech wheels, it makes absolutely no sense to me. I have a perfectly capable Driving Force GT wheel, there should be no reason why I can't just plug the thing in and start playing Forza 4 on it.

I really wish I could understand Microsofts reasoning behind this. Instead Microsoft chooses to support the super expensive, premium manufacturer that you have to order from all the way in Germany. Fanatec makes great wheels, but man are they pricey.

There are technically alternatives, but none of them match the DFGT wheel, I would have to downgrade and forget that. Waste of money. Fanatec is really the only option for someone like me who is serious about their racing sims.

 

[Killer46]

My main issue with FM is the continued lack of system link support...

 

[omgitsbees]

My main issue with FM is the continued lack of system link support...

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not with this. Why would you want this?

 

[Killer46]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not with this. Why would you want this?

Why would I be sarcastic?

Not everyone who has this game has internet that can support a semi decent online experience let alone a good one.

Of the 6 people I used to run regular system link games with (LAN parties if you will) I'm the only one with internet that supports a good online experience and only one other has any type of internet at all.

All of my friends got FM3 looking forward to the system link races and every single one of them dropped the game within a month because it lacked system link support. With FM4 only 2 of us actually bought the game and I'm the only one still playing it on occasion.

 

[omgitsbees]

Okay that makes sense, it just seemed like an odd thing to say at first. Microsoft's reasoning is they really want you to subscribe to Xbox Live Gold, I guess.

 

[Killer46]

Okay that makes sense, it just seemed like an odd thing to say at first. Microsoft's reasoning is they really want you to subscribe to Xbox Live Gold, I guess.

The whole xlink kai and XBC problem was fixed long ago with the max ping filter on system link.

T10 simply refuse to acknowledge that people play games offline and thus refuse to properly support them

 

[Imari]

The one thing that continues to hurt my experience with Forza is not having a racing wheel that I can use for it. I hate Microsoft so much for choosing not to support Logitech wheels, it makes absolutely no sense to me. I have a perfectly capable Driving Force GT wheel, there should be no reason why I can't just plug the thing in and start playing Forza 4 on it.

I really wish I could understand Microsofts reasoning behind this. Instead Microsoft chooses to support the super expensive, premium manufacturer that you have to order from all the way in Germany. Fanatec makes great wheels, but man are they pricey.

There are technically alternatives, but none of them match the DFGT wheel, I would have to downgrade and forget that. Waste of money. Fanatec is really the only option for someone like me who is serious about their racing sims.

There's probably reasoning for not supporting the Logitech wheels, I'm guessing there's something political going on there. Logitech stepped on Bill Gates dog, I dunno.

What I don't understand is why there isn't a Xbox-equivalent to the DFGT. Similar price point, similar build quality, etc. It seems to be at a level that most people who enjoy racing are willing to risk that amount of money to see if they enjoy a wheel. Fanatecs are too expensive, the other Xbox capable wheels are too crap.

There needs to be a quality Xbox compatible FFB wheel at the ~$150 price point. Not to mention that such a thing would likely be compatible with PC/PS3 as well (because why wouldn't you), and as such would completely demolish the market position of the DFGT. Who would buy a DFGT when a "DFGT-with-Xbox-compatibility" could be had for roughly the same money?

 

[Northstar]

There's probably reasoning for not supporting the Logitech wheels, I'm guessing there's something political going on there. Logitech stepped on Bill Gates dog, I dunno.

The 360 uses a different type of FFB than PC/PS3(Something like that, can't remember the specifics).

 

[Terronium-12]

Xbox 360 uses XID, and everything else supports HID.

 

[RedSuinit]

Xbox 360 uses XID, and everything else supports HID.

A very bad design decision if you ask me. Greedy Microsoft.

Ooh wow, slow down that is very specific and in a camera position that no one is going to use during normal gameplay. GT5 has slowdown and screen tearing all the time, whether it be in the cockpit view, or 3rd person chase cam, just simply playing the game, there are performance issues.

I must be blind as a bat, because I experience little of this. Not like in GT4 though, good gracious, the screen tearing in that game was ridiculous at times.

 

[Terronium-12]

Only in terms of widespread support. In terms of practice (looking at this in a rather short-sighted kind of a way) it's actually quite...practical seeing as XID is an MS technology.

Hopefully they won't limit peripheral support for the next gen Xbox.

 

[PzR Slim]

The one thing that continues to hurt my experience with Forza is not having a racing wheel that I can use for it. I hate Microsoft so much for choosing not to support Logitech wheels, it makes absolutely no sense to me. I have a perfectly capable Driving Force GT wheel, there should be no reason why I can't just plug the thing in and start playing Forza 4 on it.

I really wish I could understand Microsofts reasoning behind this. Instead Microsoft chooses to support the super expensive, premium manufacturer that you have to order from all the way in Germany. Fanatec makes great wheels, but man are they pricey.

There are technically alternatives, but none of them match the DFGT wheel, I would have to downgrade and forget that. Waste of money. Fanatec is really the only option for someone like me who is serious about their racing sims.

I'm sure MS would be happy to support Logitech but Logitech don't want to pay MS a royalty for every wheel sold to use there XID technology. Yes it would make Logitech wheels on the Xbox more expensive by an amount Thomas at Fanatec has alluded to but I'm sure plenty of people would buy a DFGT equivalent even if it was a little bit more expensive. Everyone seems to blame MS on this, Fanatec paid for it what's stopping Logitech?

 

[HBK]

Maybe because Logitech doesn't really care about racing wheels. It's just another line of products. If Xbox 3 is still limited to the use of XID, Logitech will only consider adding XID compatible wheels to their lines of products if they can make enough money out of it.

 

[imported_JJ72]

logitech care about racing wheels, they are not the top of the line but many years have provided middle range racers a good line of products, I grew up with them.

XBOX wheel was just a niche segment before Forza 4 hit, PC and PS2 was the main product mover, I don't blame them on not starting XBOX support since it really has quite some trouble to go through.

 

[t.o.]

The one thing that continues to hurt my experience with Forza is not having a racing wheel that I can use for it. I hate Microsoft so much for choosing not to support Logitech wheels, it makes absolutely no sense to me. I have a perfectly capable Driving Force GT wheel, there should be no reason why I can't just plug the thing in and start playing Forza 4 on it.

I really wish I could understand Microsofts reasoning behind this. Instead Microsoft chooses to support the super expensive, premium manufacturer that you have to order from all the way in Germany. Fanatec makes great wheels, but man are they pricey.

There are technically alternatives, but none of them match the DFGT wheel, I would have to downgrade and forget that. Waste of money. Fanatec is really the only option for someone like me who is serious about their racing sims.

I was with you until I read that line. If you're "serious" about your racing seems to me you'd be in a Fanatec right now. I have the G27 and the Fanatec 911 Turbo S (with Clubsport pedals) and the G27 is not in the same league as the Fanatec. The 911 does things that the G27 is physically incapable of doing. Hell, even the Microsoft original Wireless wheels does things the G27 can't do. This is fact. This is also a benefit of XID.

A very bad design decision if you ask me. Greedy Microsoft.

I hate Microsoft. You'll NEVER find Windows running on any computers in my house but this one I give the the nod on. Bad design decision? Sorry, anything but. I hate to say it but the industry needs to get onboard with XID. Just do the research and you'll see. They got this one RIGHT!

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

Microsoft, for whatever reason, decided to implement an XID protocol. So how does Microsoft entice companies to invest in development; they implement and enforce a licensing requirement to protect the companies (Fanatec, etc.) willing to develop wheels for the Xbox platform. If there wasn't any licensing system, no one would be willing to develop for a niche market with uncertain return on investment. The license narrows the playing field giving the few manufacturers of XID wheels a somewhat known market scope. I think it is less of a money making requirement of Microsoft and more of a protection system for developers. So until the market grows there is little room for Logitech.

In the case of Sony, I think they were smart in going with the more standard HID as they benefited by the availability of devices already on the market for the PC's; a larger market scope. Because of the large market there are more "players" willing to develop hardware solutions.

In a perfect world, I would have a choice of 8-10 wheels compatible with whichever system I decide to race on (PC, PS3, Xbox, iMac, Wii, Commodore Amiga, etc.). But, we virtual racers are actually a very small segment of the overall gaming population.

This is a Forza vs GT thread so I should post something relative. I purchased a Fanatec so I could play any racing sim released. And in the case of cross-platform titles I have been switching to the Xbox as they generally run better (graphics, frame-rate, etc.); perfect example F1 2011). Yes, a Fanatec is a little pricey but the investment is less if considering the "scope" of use. I can easily switch between platforms at will. My "will" in the fall of 2011 and spring of 2012 is Forza 4. It does so many things right (I didn't say perfect!) for GT5 to see any playing time anymore. Maybe GT6 will catch up...

My $.02

 

[omgitsbees]

I was with you until I read that line. If you're "serious" about your racing seems to me you'd be in a Fanatec right now. I have the G27 and the Fanatec 911 Turbo S (with Clubsport pedals) and the G27 is not in the same league as the Fanatec. The 911 does things that the G27 is physically incapable of doing. Hell, even the Microsoft original Wireless wheels does things the G27 can't do. This is fact. This is also a benefit of XID.

I'm also not made of money, and you misunderstood what I meant by that. Of all of the wheels that do work on the Xbox 360, the Fanatec is the only thing worth looking at. Even the DFGT is a better option if you can't get a Fanatec, but again, something happened that has made Logitech wheels to not be available on the 360.

Once I get the money i'll buy one, but it's still ridiculous having a perfectly good wheel that can't be used.

 

[X-Ray-Cat]

The one thing that continues to hurt my experience with Forza is not having a racing wheel that I can use for it. I hate Microsoft so much for choosing not to support Logitech wheels, it makes absolutely no sense to me. I have a perfectly capable Driving Force GT wheel, there should be no reason why I can't just plug the thing in and start playing Forza 4 on it.

I really wish I could understand Microsofts reasoning behind this. Instead Microsoft chooses to support the super expensive, premium manufacturer that you have to order from all the way in Germany. Fanatec makes great wheels, but man are they pricey.

There are technically alternatives, but none of them match the DFGT wheel, I would have to downgrade and forget that. Waste of money. Fanatec is really the only option for someone like me who is serious about their racing sims.

Take your issue up with LOGITECH...Not MS. MS have a specific set of requirements a device needs to comply to before supporting it. Now if Piss-ant one man operations like Fanatec can comply to it. If mad catz can comply to it, and who else makes a wheel for the xbox now? somebody else. Your issue lies with LOGITECH for being too lazy/stubborn to comply to the requirements to get a piece of hardware authorised and supported for the Xbox. Im sick and tired of people pointing the finger at MS like they are out to get logitech when its just logetich that wont make a device that complies to the higher standards of MS.

Now that I think of it. I put it down to logitechs insitance on not actually redeveloping their wheels. When the G27 came out, microsofts requirements and XID were well known and implemented. Logitech made the decision NOT to develop the G27 to comply. Instead they decided to remove a shifter feature, and add a few buttons. Now I know they went to helical gears, But fact is some of the real later models of the G25 had helical gears. When I took my G25 to a friends place we both noticed that mine was both alot smoother, and quieter than his. When we pulled them apart to find out why, we found his had straight gears and mine had helical (mine was purchased probably a month before the G27 was released). So really when Logitech decided to release a new wheel, all they did was take the last generation of the old wheel, remove a feature and make some small fiddly buttons. And you blame MICROSOFT because of logitechs laziness?


Edit: I apologise if I sound aggressive, It just really grinds my gears and gets me worked up when people CHOOSE to buy a wheel thats not supported made by a company that CHOOSES not to comply to the standards required and then blames the company that is trying to advance the industry by enforcing the higher and better standards.

Its like importing a new car from some 2 bit company overseas and then blaming the government for not allowing you to register it because it doesnt have things like seatbelts, airbags and crumple zones it needs to comply to the governments standards. It aint the governments fault your cars unroadworthy sunshine.