Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[artboy76]

If you want GT5 sound vs FM4 sound vs Real life sound for the 787b here you go, there are probably going to be some of the best examples you will find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81zhOQ5PvaE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNILs5iPiPg

[Nevermind, can't find a direct feed recording of the FM4 787b, will update]

Must say GT5 is really, REALLY close to the real deal.

Hang on a minute.....you posted up real life...then GT5...but not Forzas???

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

here it is.... sorry on this one theres not even a debate....forza smashes..SMASHES GT5 out of the park......like they didnt even turn up....

enjoy.....the sound..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snvabUH0cEs

 

[Killer46]

Yeah, no. It still sounds almost exactly the same, even compared to the video YOU posted. Take out the rose colored earplugs and listen again.

It does sound very similar. You must not have ears, if you can honestly say that the pitch and tone are not similar. Also it DOES sound like an engine.

No, just no.

The sound in GT5 just sounds like a computer created tone that's then recorded by a $5 microphone and compressed down to 28kbps.

It's horrible.

It doesn't sound like the real car (there's more to a real cars sound than just the tone) and it doesn't even sound good. It has the exact same wooshing/whiring sound that all cars in GT have.

 

[artboy76]

I'm afraid with this one GT5 fangirls will just have to take one for the team and get over it. You've more chance of credibility by continuing to argue that, and i quote, tyre pressures are pointless unless you own an F1 car.... lol....

 

[I'm Motarded]

You've more chance of credibility by continuing to argue that, and i quote, tyre pressures are pointless unless you own an F1 car.... lol....

Wow, that isn't from this thread is it? lol
Thing is, I'd guess a least 60% of people playing GT5 do actually have an F1 car in their virtual garage.

 

[Luminis]

Wow, that isn't from this thread is it? lol
Thing is, I'd guess a least 60% of people playing GT5 do actually have an F1 car in their virtual garage.

Well, not quite. The initial point, as far as I am aware of it, was that tyre pressure is a "negligible" setting, as it only really matters under changing conditions. F1 and such came in later, more as a means to point out how much influence tyre pressure can have on a car.

By the way, changing conditions, Forza has them. The track temperature at the Bernese Alps is significantly lower than it is at, say, Laguna Seca. So yeah, that argument would be moot anyways, even if it wasn't downright silly to begin with.

 

[GT6mebe]

Forza has got the high pitch sound close but there is no warble. GT5 has got the warble correct but does not have the high pitch note. Hmmmmm....difficult but I will take GT5 because it looks better.

 

[Imari]

Forza has got the high pitch sound close but there is no warble. GT5 has got the warble correct but does not have the high pitch note. Hmmmmm....difficult but I will take GT5 because it looks better.

Ah, yes. When discriminating amongst sounds one should always choose the better looking game.

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[Luminis]

GT5 (idle, revving, at speed):


FM4 (idle and revving):


FM4 (at speed):


Real life (revving, idle, at speed):


Now, even with the relatively low quality of the real life footage's audio, I'll say this: If someone's calling the 787b sounds of GT5 amd FM4 equal, while the constant, whooshing vacuum-cleaner-esque sound that seems to affect all of GT5's cars is still clearly audible with GT5's 787b, I'll say that that person is either deaf, biased, or both. Don't get me started on preffering GT5's sounds.

Seriously, close your eyes, try to ingore the watermarks of each video and just listen to them. FM4 isn't perfect, but it's much closer to any real life video I've found than GT5. Which is hardly suprising; GT5's sounds were never top notch. Overall, they were average at best. Is it suprising to see that one of the last straws that some GT5 afficionados were clinging to, in terms of engine sounds, is now being bested by T10? Hardly, in my opinion. If you're asking me, it was to be expected.

I fail to understand why there's such a huge debate over it, actually. If one wanted to fail FM4, look at the rims and the fact that FM4 seemingly can't model different rims or different offsets on the front and rear. That's a point to criticize, because it is inaccurate. The sound, so? Compared to GT5? Laughable.

 

[imported_xxDingerxx]

Certainly in the time I've spent on track and proving grounds, tyre temp and pressure were the two most commonly checked things.

Yes it is but right here is the thing. Why are you constantly checking you tire temperatures?

When I do it, its because the track temperature is in a constant state of flux which has an effect on the operating temperature of the tire. Thats the main reason any of us are checking and changing our pressure accordingly.

However, Forza's tracks are static. If the track temperature doesn't change, the only difference would be the friction caused by how hard you drive.

EDIT. O.K . I think this thread is turning into a farce. Some of you have got to stop acting like someone has just shot your dog simply because someone prefers GT over Forza.....Fangirls, artboy76.....Grow up!!!!

 

[Luminis]

However, Forza's tracks are static. If the track temperature doesn't change, the only difference would be the friction caused by how hard you drive.

So, if you can't change the tyre pressure, you would use the very same tyre pressure at the Bernese Alps (freezing cold) and Laguna Seca (pretty hot)?

Also, what about how fast the tyres gain and lose heat, even on the very same track? For a very short race, tyre wear is of no concern, so I can set my tyre pressure to a lower value, in order to make the tyres heat up faster. Should the race be significantly longer, I might want to increase the tyre pressure a bit to reduce tyre wear, even though the tyres won't heat themselves up as fast.

 

[imported_xxDingerxx]

So, if you can't change the tyre pressure, you would use the very same tyre pressure at the Bernese Alps (freezing cold) and Laguna Seca (pretty hot)?

Hold on a second, couple of questions...

Firstly. Are you trying to tell me that racing on the Bernese Alps on Forza 4 is even close to accurately representing what its like to racing in freezing conditions in real life?

Secondly. Are you also trying to tell me you would use the same tire for racing in freezing conditions that you would use at a track in a very hot climate?

If the answer to either questions is yes, please don't ever try racing in real life as there is only ever going to be one way it ends (and it will be a very sad tale to tell).

 

[Scaff]

I'm afraid with this one GT5 fangirls will just have to take one for the team and get over it. You've more chance of credibility by continuing to argue that, and i quote, tyre pressures are pointless unless you own an F1 car.... lol....

EDIT. O.K . I think this thread is turning into a farce. Some of you have got to stop acting like someone has just shot your dog simply because someone prefers GT over Forza.....Fangirls, artboy76.....Grow up!!!!

OK - I asked you nicely yesterday to address the points that people were making and not attack them for the point.

You two seem to have not taken that on-board or are under the impression that I was not serious, artboy in particular this is not the first time we have had this conversation.

Take a day off from Forza Planet to think it over the pair of you, attacking other members, no matter how much you disagree with them is not acceptable.


Scaff

 

[I'm Motarded]

Ah, yes. When discriminating amongst sounds one should always choose the better looking game.

Yes, who are we to argue with logic

 

[Luminis]

Firstly. Are you trying to tell me that racing on the Bernese Alps on Forza 4 is even close to accurately representing what its like to racing in freezing conditions in real life?

Actually, I don't know, because I'd assume that that would hinge on factors that I am not aware of; such as the difference between air temperature and track temperature at the Bernese Alps, as that would play a major role in whether Forza's depiction is realistic or entirely off track.

Secondly. Are you also trying to tell me you would use the same tire for racing in freezing conditions that you would use at a track in a very hot climate?

Well, yes, I would if I was trying to replicate the situation in Forza and GT, for that matter. Because I would have to, as there are no tyres specifically with a compound suited for cold weather. Nor is there one in GT5, is there?

But that's besides the point, isn't it? What I'd do on a race track has very little to do with your statement that the conditions are always the Forza. which is obviously false.

If the answer to either questions is yes, please don't ever try racing in real life as there is only ever going to be one way it ends (and it will be a very sad tale to tell).

So, after questioning my abilities as a track driver (or rather, a mechanic, really), I'd have to ask: What has any of that to do with your point about the conditions in Forza always being the same, which they aren't?

Changing conditions, same tyre = tyre pressure is important, even if we were following your logic that it has only negligible effects on the car otherwise. Oh, and maybe I should make a comment about your driving abilities, based on the fact that you deem tyre pressure so unimportant. I'd rather debate your point instead of attacking you, though.

 

[tribolik]

Real life (revving, idle, at speed):

I dont doubt your conclusions but were IRL is that???? in your room?

 

[Luminis]

I dont doubt your conclusions but were IRL is that???? in your room?

Damn, I fail at copy pasting

This is the video I wanted to embed:

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Damn, I fail at copy pasting

This is the video I wanted to embed:

Man this thing is spot on!

 

[RedSuinit]

No, just no.

The sound in GT5 just sounds like a computer created tone that's then recorded by a $5 microphone and compressed down to 28kbps.

It's horrible.

It doesn't sound like the real car (there's more to a real cars sound than just the tone) and it doesn't even sound good. It has the exact same wooshing/whiring sound that all cars in GT have.

No, just no.

It doesn't. I have heard computer created tones recorded by a $5 dollar microphone and compressed down to 28kbps, and they sound far FAR FAR worse than this. It does sound like a car, but you clearly can't look at GT5 objectively. I have both GT5 and FM4, I play both regularly, and listen to both of them regularly. The ONLY thing GT5's sounds lack is a distortion filter to simulate loud noises. Something they sort of fixed with 2.0, but not enough, they only have it on the REALLY loud cars. The whiring is transmission noise (which has little differentiation between transmissions, outside of decible levels which admittedly GT does exaggerate at times) and the wooshing is wind noise, which tends to be really consistent IRL. Pretty much every car I have driven, wind noise sounds the same between all of them.

 

[Luminis]

No, just no.

It doesn't. I have heard computer created tones recorded by a $5 dollar microphone and compressed down to 28kbps, and they sound far FAR FAR worse than this. It does sound like a car, but you clearly can't look at GT5 objectively. I have both GT5 and FM4, I play both regularly, and listen to both of them regularly. The ONLY thing GT5's sounds lack is a distortion filter to simulate loud noises. Something they sort of fixed with 2.0, but not enough, they only have it on the REALLY loud cars. The whiring is transmission noise (which has little differentiation between transmissions, outside of decible levels which admittedly GT does exaggerate at times) and the wooshing is wind noise, which tends to be really consistent IRL. Pretty much every car I have driven, wind noise sounds the same between all of them.

The problem isn't what's lacking, the problem is that there's that constant sound of what I suppose is the dynamo they put the cars on to record the audio. If you listen closely, it's audible for most cars and it's still easy to notice with the 787B. Well, you probably don't even have to listen closely. Not that the sample itself is the big problem, in my opinion, but the constant background noise that is messing the whole thing up constantly and across the board.

I can't think of any other reason why there's always that vacuum cleaner like sound. Because, that isn't wind noise. You can even hear it when the car is being revved up and is standing perfectly still. Unless PD decided to link their wind noise to the RPM instead of the speed. Which I doubt.

 

[imported_Da-bomber]

GT5's 787b sound can't match real life's as close as forza can. What did people expect?

 

[Chagen46]

Man this thing is spot on!

Jesus Christ, how the hell are you supposed to SEE out of that thing?!

 

[Wolfe]

The problem isn't what's lacking, the problem is that there's that constant sound of what I suppose is the dynamo they put the cars on to record the audio. If you listen closely, it's audible for most cars and it's still easy to notice with the 787B. Well, you probably don't even have to listen closely. Not that the sample itself is the big problem, in my opinion, but the constant background noise that is messing the whole thing up constantly and across the board.

I can't think of any other reason why there's always that vacuum cleaner like sound. Because, that isn't wind noise. You can even hear it when the car is being revved up and is standing perfectly still. Unless PD decided to link their wind noise to the RPM instead of the speed. Which I doubt.

I would guess GT5's engine noises are synthesized, rather than recorded. Some engines are way too far off to be a simple matter of dyno noise.

The series has had the same signature "Gran Turismo sound" in its engine noises since the PS2 days. You can tell someone is playing GT3/GT4/GT5 just by listening, even if you're in the next room over (though you probably couldn't guess which one it is). Hell, when I began my first race in GT5 the engine audio immediately hit me with a wave of nostalgia, because it's so distinct. Distinctly wrong.

Maybe it's just me, but a game with recorded engine noises doesn't tend to stir up memories of the last game I played with recorded engine noises. I just think to myself, "yup, that's an B4/I6/cross-plane V8/V10/whatever."

The only thought that comes to mind when I'm playing a GT game is, "yup, I'm playing Gran Turismo."

 

[stevetam]

The only thought that comes to mind when I'm playing a GT game is, "yup, I'm playing Gran Turismo."

LOL. This is too true!

 

[Killer46]

The whiring is transmission noise (which has little differentiation between transmissions, outside of decible levels which admittedly GT does exaggerate at times) and the wooshing is wind noise, which tends to be really consistent IRL. Pretty much every car I have driven, wind noise sounds the same between all of them.

Again, no.

That whiring/whining noise is constant. At every speed, even stationary. It's part of what makes the games audio so terrible and just goes to show that they do not use real cars to get their samples.

I bet I could take the noise of the 787B in GT5, run it through a pitch shifter and than be able to recreate every other cars "engine" noise.

And as I've said before, you can't just make a car have a high pitched engine note and have it automatically sound the same as the real cars high pitched engine note.

There is so much character to engine sounds that GT5s synthesised sounds just do not recreate.

 

[RedSuinit]

Again, no.

That whiring/whining noise is constant. At every speed, even stationary. It's part of what makes the games audio so terrible and just goes to show that they do not use real cars to get their samples.

I bet I could take the noise of the 787B in GT5, run it through a pitch shifter and than be able to recreate every other cars "engine" noise.

Bet you can't. Now show some proof that you can. Back up your claims that they don't use engines to get their samples, because you have no proof. It's unsubstantiated opinion, and not fact. Funny how Scaff isn't hopping on this unlike with the Forza claims/exaggerations.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Bet you can't. Now show some proof that you can. Back up your claims that they don't use engines to get their samples, because you have no proof. It's unsubstantiated opinion, and not fact. Funny how Scaff isn't hopping on this unlike with the Forza claims/exaggerations.

I kind of understand trying to defend GT5's graphics, car list, tracks, even to a point...physics.

But are you really trying to defend GT5 sounds? Reallly? The one huge, glaring, nasty, flaw that PD calls car sounds, even hardcore GT fans can admit to being just plain bad.

Put any car in GT5 in a direct comparison to FM4 and there is a huge advantage in FM4's favor.

 

[RedSuinit]

I kind of understand trying to defend GT5's graphics, car list, tracks, even to a point...physics.

But are you really trying to defend GT5 sounds? Reallly? The one huge, glaring, nasty, flaw that PD calls car sounds, even hardcore GT fans can admit to being just plain bad.

In GENERAL that is the truth, but there are two or three exceptions. I.E. the 787B, the MarkIV, and a handful of others, especially after the update. Are they still lacking? Yes. Are they as horrible as some people make them out to be (SatansReverence)? No.

 

[espeed623]

In GENERAL that is the truth, but there are two or three exceptions. I.E. the 787B, the MarkIV, and a handful of others, especially after the update.

The GT MkIV is EXCLUSIVE to GT5, so of course that'd be an advantage in GT's favor.

 

[Killer46]

In GENERAL that is the truth, but there are two or three exceptions. I.E. the 787B, the MarkIV, and a handful of others, especially after the update. Are they still lacking? Yes. Are they as horrible as some people make them out to be (SatansReverence)? No.

Don't worry, I get what your problem is.

The GT5 crowd cling on to the 787B because for them, it's the only decent sounding car in the entire game.

Now Forza has the same car and it's engine sound is many times better and more realistic.

And all that update did was increase the levels of bass and doing that doesn't make the terrible sound samples any better.

*edit*

The only things GT5 seemed to get right with the 787B is the lumpy idle and the low speed neutral throttle garble the car has but they decided it was a great idea to put that garble across the entire rev range which simply isn't right.

 

[Luminis]

I would guess GT5's engine noises are synthesized, rather than recorded. Some engines are way too far off to be a simple matter of dyno noise.

Well, yeah, some are so wrong there's no way they've been recorded. However, I can't believe a sound engineer would allow these kinds of strange backround noises to mess their creation up.

Maybe it's just me, but a game with recorded engine noises doesn't tend to stir up memories of the last game I played with recorded engine noises. I just think to myself, "yup, that's an B4/I6/cross-plane V8/V10/whatever."

Good thing I prefer the latter over the nostalgia

Don't worry, I get what your problem is.

The GT5 crowd cling on to the 787B because for them, it's the only decent sounding car in the entire game.

Now Forza has the same car and it's engine sound is many times better and more realistic.

I actually thing that is kinda what's going on... I mean, that's the vibe I'm getting from it. I don't think it's hard to compare the audio samples at hand and come to the very simple conclusion that, as with almost every single other car, Forza's recreation of the 787B's sound is more accurate and better sounding. I don't see much reason or merrit int rying to debate the messed up sound away, but it does seem like the last straw that someone, who wants to believe that GT5's audio isn't decidedly inferior, was able to cling to.

And now, it's gone. Only one thing to do: Move on. An engine note is wrong in GT5. Oh dear, how suprising