Forza 5/6 vs GT6 (See First Post Before Posting)

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 5' started by espeed623, May 23, 2013.

  1. SuperCobraJet

    SuperCobraJet (Banned)

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    Nice to know, but if your not online where is the leader board info coming from thats posted during all the career races in FM5?
     
  2. BoneSawTX

    BoneSawTX

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    It's obvious you won't get the leader boards nor any of the features that require you to be online, and the Drivatars you get will be the generics it comes with.
     
  3. Ialyrn

    Ialyrn

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    Didn't I just show with my last video that FM5 and FH2 both load up and work fully without the Xbox one connected to the internet?
     
  4. SimTourist

    SimTourist

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    The Drivatars are gonna be the latest ones you've downloaded, not stock ones.
     
  5. BoneSawTX

    BoneSawTX

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    My statement was based off not connecting at all. I was trying to cut off the next stupid question
     
  6. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Right, so I've gathered from this little discussion:

    You do not need a connection to play or enjoy FM5.

    Connections might cause steering lag for some.

    I think, that's it. Did I miss anything?
     
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  7. SuperCobraJet

    SuperCobraJet (Banned)

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    You showed that once downloaded, you can still play the game, sort of.
    However, XBone is not like the previous consoles.
    All the profiles are "online" only.
    You could boot up FM4 and previous FM games from the disc on the 360 and play the entire game with a offline profile and never go "online".
    That is not possible with FM5 on the XBone.
    BTW I think at this point, the lag interference is coming from the wireless router.


    Almost.
    Once the game is downloaded, you can still play it, in a fashion, while disconnected.
    The enjoy it part is debatable, at least on a long term basis.
    There is no question the purposed design of the XBone and the game is to be played online only.
     
  8. Ialyrn

    Ialyrn

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    I am sorry, but no, just no. you can play every part of the game offline, except for the online multiplayer (obviously). This is just the same as FM4 and all previous Forza games before it.

    Edit:

    Look, it is plain as day to see that I loaded up both FM5 and FH2 without a connection to the internet. FM5 I have on disk, FH2 is a digital download. I showed I was not connected via the dashboard and via the network settings page. I even showed myself driving around for a couple of minutes as well. The profile I used is the one I have had since Xbox live first started, and it has ALWAYS had a Gold subscription connected to it. The Xbox one in its current state will work the same as the 360 before it, and the original xbox before that. Seriously, how much more do you need to be proven wrong about this?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
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  9. SuperCobraJet

    SuperCobraJet (Banned)

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    Yes and no.
    Outside of designed intention Yes.
    Under designed intention, no.
    How many offline profiles do you have on your XBone?
    I have several on my 360 I can use to play FM4 and I don't have to "unplug" anything.
    I don't call that the same.
    I could not do anything with FM5 without connecting first with a "online" profile.

    Yes it will work without any drivatar or other updates.
    I'm not saying you can't do what you show you can.
    My point is, you cannot play under a offline profile as you could with the 360.
    As said the console and game are design intented to be played "online connected" only.
    You just pointed that out.
     
  10. Ialyrn

    Ialyrn

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    Pulling the Ethernet cable from my console, was to show that you don't even have to have an internet connection to play and enjoy forza. Your argument was not about using a non gold profile though, it was about been connected to the internet. You said and I quote:

    "My first area of concern is if it could be bandwith related.
    Since you have to be online to play FM5"

    This is the point I have contested with this, not in using a profile created offline. I will grant you however that you cant seem to be able to create a new profile while offline with the Xbox one, which I didn't know till I just tried. I haven't made a profile 100% offline since I made my main account back on the original xbox on its day of release, which was before xbox live released. and this is a major oversight on Microsofts part. If you have an issue with that aspect though, then you need to bring it to the attention of Microsoft on their own forums, on twitter, or via facebook. Something to which I have just done to Phil Spencers twitter before posting this messing. To still be required to have an internet connection for an initial one time setup at this point is some major bs, and you do have a valid point in this respect.

    As for Forza, the game is playable offline. The point I was contesting with you, not the point you have since made over profile creation in an offline environment.
     
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  11. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    Everything that doesn't require a multiplayer connection can be used. What can't be used with no Internet connection is multiplayer, rivals, uploading/downloading photos/paints/tunes, leaderboards, the message center and that's it. Everything else does not require you to be connected one bit.

    I'm also pretty sure you don't even have to do an initial start up connection either, as the game already comes with drivatars on it.

    Why do you keep fighting it even though you kept being told repeatedly? Aside from the actual part of playing multiplayer, why do you keep saying the game is online only?


    Did you bother testing your theory before saying it? Having removed my Ethernet cable and disabling wifi AND selecting an offline, brand new account, it launches up and runs just fine.

    So I suppose it's a good thing that the gripes about the game seem to be user induced. Looks like you can enjoy the game more once you settle with that
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  12. SuperCobraJet

    SuperCobraJet (Banned)

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    Oh, I see what you mean. Sorry my bad on that.
    That should have been worded differently.
    We've been on two different wavelengths.
    Also when I said that, it was my assumption, since I had to sign on with a online account to download the game, and again there was no provision for a offline profile.
    Obviously your post proved that it can be played disconnected..
    I had not tried to play the game without a connection and didn't know it was possible.
    Perhaps you could say, you don't have to be online, but it helps in that some aspects are not available without it.


    I too have the same original online account since PGR2 on the Xbox.
    I prefer the choice on the 360 where you can create either one.

    Yes, major bs is exactly what it is.
    But as I'm sure you know, MS is pushing hard to eliminate disc gaming so they can likewise eliminate the used game market, and the discounted trade in and resale, of which they now collect no money on.
    And frankly, they have no right to.
    However letting the cat out the bag at E3 prior to the release of XBone has cost them dearly.
    Eventually downloads and cloud servers probably will eliminate the used game market.
    That will truly be sad. The vast majority of my gaming is done through the savings of used games.
    FM5 being the latest in that category.


    Yes it is, in spite of the fact there is no official provision for doing so.
     
  13. Ialyrn

    Ialyrn

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    I just want to post my opinion on this bit, and let the other conversation pass into the abyss; since we seem to be on the same planet now with that, lol.

    Personally I don't care if MS do away with disk based gaming, or even if Sony follow suit (which they will eventually). The reason for this opinion of mine though is 100% down to been a pc gamer also. I have been using steam for a hell of a long time, probably longer than I have been a member of xbox live because of Half life and counter strike. So obviously I have been ushered into the realm of digital game buying very early on, even when the internet infrastructure wasn't really strong enough to support it. The thing is though that all of the arguments against Microsoft doing this on the Xbox, where also used against steam when Valve first started the whole digital store thing. The same things where over used games, sharing games with others, every argument was identical. The biggest point of contention was the game prices compared to a used game. The thing is though that the steam sales have largely negated that fact, and places like Humble bundle have improved on that even more. Not to mention key sites such as G2A (have to be careful with this one), greenman gaming (Awesome one to use), and so on. This is something I am sure would have followed onto the Xbox one had Microsoft's original intentions not been altered as much as they where, and they wasn't out right saying that they would stop the practice of selling on games purchased on a disk. The only issue I have with steam isn't even a issue with Valve themselves, but the fact that Activision still charge a ridiculous sum for older call of duty titles, by which I mean even as far back as the original COD game. Problem is though, that now we will never know if what Microsoft originally wanted to do would have decreased the price for new games shortly after release. At least not till the console's follow what has been on PC for a long long time. And the vast majority of what they wanted to do, was a direct copy and paste of what steam does.

    But anyway, I think this is very off topic for this thread. Considering it is a thread in regards to GT6 vs FM5. So we should perhaps leave this out of here, though if you would like to PM me in response to this post; I will certainly welcome it.
     
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  14. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    ^^ Good points; paragraphing helps! :D
     
  15. SuperCobraJet

    SuperCobraJet (Banned)

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    Well now that the online/offline thing is out of the way, I'm still not sure what is causing the lag.
    At times its absent and at other times its very prevalent.

    Now that I have spent some time analysing it, I can notice it right away in the analogue stick movement.
    Even in the menus the stick movement is noticeably delayed.

    The only other thing I've noticed is there is some frame rate skip and stutter during the races at times.
    Not sure if that is related to the problem or not.

    The good thing is as long as the lag doesn't come into play, I'm beginning to see why some of you like the on-track and drivability better than FM4.
    The game does seem to have a more finite dimension in the physics, control and tuning.
    I'm beginning to like it as well.
     
  16. Ialyrn

    Ialyrn

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    With regards to the controller, it will be what I pointed out before over the 2.4GHz wireless signal between the controller and the console itself. Something is interfering with the signal. Dont confuse this with the connection to your router though, as it is a separate built in 2.4GHz transceiver in the Xbox one and the controller, which are only there to communicate with one another. You stated it was better while plugging in via a micro usb cable, so I would suggest just using that for now; even though it is a bit of a hindrance been cabled to a console all the time.

    As for the frame skipping in Forza, I may have a solution for you. Turn your console on and remove any disks in the blu-ray drive, and make sure you have no digital games loaded up. Press and hold the xbox logo power button on the front of the console itself for around 5 to 10 seconds. This will force a full cold boot of your xbox one, and may solve the issue you are experiencing with stutter every now and then. An alternative option is to turn the consoles "instant on" mode off, as this has the same effect as a forced restart via the power button I mentioned above. Obviously though a lot of people like the instant on mode, as it allows the use of the "xbox on" command to boot the console up. With that mode turned off, the Xbox one is not listening for that command in its powered off state.
     
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  17. RPM Bibblefish

    RPM Bibblefish

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    What track are you having the choppy frame rate issues on, not le mans by any chance?
     
  18. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Interesting. :tup:
     
  19. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    I've always had problem with choppyness on Le Mans, but only online when people are talking. I tend to mute everyone online now.
     
  20. SuperCobraJet

    SuperCobraJet (Banned)

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    Thanks for the tips.
    With the usb cable connected I did not get any lag, but I haven't played that long with it connected.
    I may have to do that, to verify it is never present when it is connected.
    The lag is intermitten without it.
    I've executed the cold boot, so I'll see how the frame rate is now.
    I prefer to leave the "instant on" in place if possible, but at some point I may change it just to see if that makes a difference.

    Yes, Lemans is one of them and in Career mode races.
    It seems you get at least one there every race.
    It's also happened at Nurb GP, Catalunya, and Spa.
    I am so conditioned to them from playing GT5 and 6, I dont pay much attention to it.

    EDIT: After the cold boot I ran all the races in Modern Sport Compact.
    I've only had one very slight blip at Indy. None at the rest including Lemans.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  21. RacerPaul

    RacerPaul

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    Indeed, me too. Not just for choppiness prevention :D
     
  22. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    Yeah, thats true. I just tend to mute everyone thats not my friend now :lol:
     
  23. Ialyrn

    Ialyrn

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    I figured as much. You have to treat the Xbox one like a PC, at least in the sense that you can leave a PC running for an extended period of time; but occasionally it will need a cold boot just to aid in clearing out the system ram. Some programs still suffer with memory leaks, and they don't always get flushed out of the ram properly.
     
  24. Max911

    Max911

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    Well, the original tracks are better. But this is an opinion. You can't say a game is better based on facts, it depends on your personal preferences that determine fun factor. For me, sheer volume of content and how the game drives is what wins it. I also use a G27 which makes it a lot more fun too. Can't play FM5 at its best without investing some serious $$$ in DLC and a compatible wheel with proper pedals and a shifter.
     
  25. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Yes, that's a good way of putting it.

    Any amount of laser scanning or track accuracy ain't worth didley squat, unless the physics are "rich" enough to let you see and feel all the camber, bumps and elevation changes. Furthermore, if the physics ARE nerfed enough, subtle suspension changes should reflect in how you experience the track.

    Laser scanning ain't got much to do with it fraid'.
     
  26. I was a Gran Turismo fan from Gran Turismo 1 on PS1, I still am but as we go on from GT5 and GT6 I can't get over the premium standards, poor AI, poor customization, tuning, and no Speed Test and poor GUI which is boring and looks boring too. GT5 to me seems to have better aero, physics and handling model which in turn with a good transmission ratio which has markers for gear ratios actually worked and all elements worked together to change the speed of the car. This is not the case in GT6 its like nothing works. I could actually top speed test cars on GT5 with joy with aero, suspension, toe and camber working to affect the car with drag and counter in weight aswell. GT6 does not work like this its poo in my opinion.

    Even camber and toe seem pointless and don't seem to do anything. It's like they made the game more for kids and gave the handling an even more arcade feel down from simcade. Speed Test on GT5 for timing drag racing was took out of GT6. The only thing that Kept GT6 alive for me was drag racing on Indy with my friends in multiplayer. The multiplayer element of GT has always been good and you can comment in lobbies. I loved GT5 for good physics, Speed Test. I tried Xbox 360 and my enjoyment with physics and handling was hit and miss, good on some cars but poor and horrible for most other cars, so I sold the game and console to my nephew.

    But I loved FM4 having lots of cars and Porsche in the game and the graphics and AutoVista were brilliant and sounds were brilliant. I didn't like the handling physics. Now I took a leap of faith from rumours and comments on Forza 5 handling physics and so I decided to splash out my money on an Xbox One. Well I bought Forza 5 and I can say the handling physics on Forza 5 are so much better than Forza 4, a big improvement. I know its next gen but the steering is suddenly more amazing feeling and sim like that GT5 felt like as it matured and GT5 was great for me whereas GT6 feels all too easy like cars feel like go karts and weren't challenging and you couldn't feel the resistance when steering. GT6 feels more simcade that GT5.

    I'm glad to say Forza 5 on next gen finally nails handling physics, every car I've driven has felt enjoyable and exciting, drives differently but they don't slide round corners unrealistically anymore like in FM4, the cars feel great to drive although FM5 is not perfect its the best I've felt yet and the fact that I like the handling physics so much on Forza 5 is enough to make me not want to sell my Xbox One or Forza 5. I'm so glad because this was an expensive investment and I dived in unsure about it. I had no friends with a Xbox One so I could not demo the game at all. It's an expensive investment just for the Forza franchise alone but I may just buy Tomb Raider as I've always played the TOmb Raider games on Playstation. So I can now go and buy the game as soon as it releases exclusive to Xbox.

    I drove a few 4WD and RWD so far and they all feel great to drive. Forza 5 might not have the track or car count of FM4 or have Porsche, but look at the first Forzas on a new gen Xbox from Xbox - Xbox 360 and you'll see a big difference with each new gen in polygon count, graphics quality, and content and physics maturity. Customization is out of this world compared to GT5 or GT6. I feel as they go on from FM5 with FM6, T10 will get Forza 6 right and it will get better and better. The car choice and variety in Forza is better than having multiple versions of the same or similar car and having no interior detailing.

    I can at least drive an Arial Atom, a Ferrari F50, a McClaren P1 or a Ferrari La Ferrari. And many many more cars that just are not in GT like Escort RS 500 Cosworth and Escort RS Cosworth. I know Forza 5 doesn't have weather or day and night or that many tracks but I feel Forza 5 in that way was rushed for T10 for the next gen console release. With Forza 6 they won't be rushed as they are given enough time as has been given to all other previous iterations of the franchise. I'm really getting excited for Project Cars too and as a pure racing game I hope it does well, I have the Limited Edition preordered from GAME.co.uk.

    I think in terms of pure racing and pit stops, qualifying and realistic lap times and AI will be as everyone has said a good starting point for T10 and PD to realize that they are missing certain features that make real racing game. P Cars is one step closer to the real world when it comes to accurately simulating the racing events of a real life driver in racing. As for PD I won't be playing GT6 because I can't keep myself away from Forza 5. One more thing, Forza 5 car sounds are all unique and much better than FM4 again thanks to the better next gen technology. T10 are ahead of PD when it comes to simulating physics, brake fade or tire fade, i'm not sure what Forza 5 actually simulates maybe someone can corerct me here but FM5 seems to simulate more things in the physics side of life. Screeching annoying tyres in FM5 as they were in FM4 and early GT6 are now gone and more realistic in Forza 5.

    Plus when you tune up your car in Forza 5 every part adds or reduces weight of the overall car and all that is calculated and so is grip with tyre width, tyre diameter and tyre size, every wheel and every aftermarket part has a different weight factor too. I feel Forza 5 with paint in some ways is better or worse than 4. And its light years ahead of GT6. I really truly can not wait for FM6 if the physics experience of FM5 is anything to go by so far I'm enjoying just free test driving my cars in Forza 5 for hours of joy let alone completing the career mode. So yes this is my review and experience with Forza 5 so far even though some Forza 5 long term fans who have been with T10 longer than me would say Forza 5 is incomplete and misses a lot. Well it does. But its still truly worth it just for the enjoyment of the handling physics and car sounds and driving them. I've never had so much fun in a ferrari f40, ferrari f50, Escort RS Cosworth. I'm sure Forza 6 will fix a lot of things.

    My only wish that T10 would add a lot of cars that were in FM4. I miss driving many cars and one of them is the Ferrari F40 LM and the 599 GTO LM edition and many other faster versions of certain cars. More paganis, more koeniseggs. More aston martins, more nobles, SSC ultimate aero. More Lotus, a gumpert apollo. I could go on here. My Santas wish list to you T10. :) Since I own a PS4 I probably will be buying GT7 anyway aswell. If you got this far thank you for reading my super long post. Now go and buy and Xbox One and Forza 5. If not then don't :lol: You will regret the driving experience. If not Forza 5 you must try Forza 6. And I'm a die hard fan of both developers and both games. Ta ta
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
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  27. FordGTGuy

    FordGTGuy

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    Just wanted to poke my head in here and mention something I've noticed about Forza 5 since getting a racing wheel. This game is like a completely different game with a racing wheel compared to using a controller... I know... duh of course it is different... but hear me out.

    Using a racing wheel on Forza is like going from full assists on a controller to no assists. The way cars react is insanely different and you can tell instantly how much the tire model is held back by the controller. You have to fight cars tooth and nail if you want to be fast and using no assists takes a ton of practice.

    I can't recommend it more to try out a wheel on Forza 5 without assists.

    I'm not sure how this observation affects Forza 5 vs GT6 but it definitely affects my attitude towards Forza.
     
  28. Speedster911

    Speedster911

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    Man, don't I know it? :(

    Really wanted to get a wheel when I got FM4, and planning to get FM5 soon..want a wheel with that as well..

    Sadly (boooo friggin hooooooo), I can only get the X1 and both Forza games for now. Plus, ain't much space in my room to accommodate a proper set up anyway (doooooooohhh). :gtpflag:
     
  29. VXR

    VXR

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    It's a fight to be fast on controller, too when you have the aids off and sim steering. I've never been so tested in a racing game.
     
  30. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    I take all aids off and manual/clutch with a controller, but man for the life of me I just cant take simulation steering, its just to odd.
     
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