Forza 5 Is A Major Dissapointment, Will DLC Save It?

[TokoTurismo]

Yea, because highly detailed models of the interiors of all the cars just happened overnight right? Of course the decision make them all autovista took time away from other things that could have been done. That being said, it's my belief that was only half the problem. The other half is Greenbucks and M$ realizing they had a large enough base of lemmings that would just lap up the rest of the cars via DLC.

Agreed, and I'll back you up to expend more. Let's face it, autovista overall is a feature that should have never existed in a racing game, or any racing game ever. Fans of the franchise have never asked for it, auto shows are there for that and no can't say otherwise. I remember using it once or twice in FM4, but then I never used it again. There was no reason at all to cut half the cars that were modelled so good out. I mean come on, the Reventon too?

The only reason I believe why the cars were cut out from FM5, is not because of Autovista, but to buy them again via DLC. Forza Horizon (from my experience) was used as a test subject to see if those were blind will buy its DLC that had some cars new to the series, some cars from the previous and some cars reused changing there appearances. Now that it had succeeded, T10 believes they can get away with it again due to, yet again, the fanboys. "Were not holding cars back" yeah okay Dan Lies a lot.

@Speedster911 - I, along with many former Forza diehards will agree 100 percent with what you posted. Unfortunately, even here at a GT site, there are those who have dug themselves in to defend T10 and Forza no matter what. These types tend to get very emotional when you point out flaws in their favorite toys.

I myself was a big fan of Forza from back then. I mean I said before Forza 1 was better than GT4, and I ain't lying. But now? Not anymore. Since FM3, T10 has changed Forza beyond anyone's belief, and noticed what they've been doing in their forums. Deleting anything that's negative about their precious franchise and banning people who say so as well. @Speedster911 nailed it down perfectly.

I feel bad for you and the "true" diehard fans of Forza that have to suffer from all this. Not the fanboys that have T10 up their rear so far up, their gone. I also noticed this too, and the good example is in this thread.

 

[King1982]

Agreed, and I'll back you up to expend more. Let's face it, autovista overall is a feature that should have never existed in a racing game, or any racing game ever. Fans of the franchise have never asked for it, auto shows are there for that and no can't say otherwise. I remember using it once or twice in FM4, but then I never used it again. There was no reason at all to cut half the cars that were modelled so good out. I mean come on, the Reventon too?

The only reason I believe why the cars were cut out from FM5, is not because of Autovista, but to buy them again via DLC. Forza Horizon (from my experience) was used as a test subject to see if those were blind will buy its DLC that had some cars new to the series, some cars from the previous and some cars reused changing there appearances. Now that it had succeeded, T10 believes they can get away with it again due to, yet again, the fanboys. "Were not holding cars back" yeah okay Dan Lies a lot.

I myself was a big fan of Forza from back then. I mean I said before Forza 1 was better than GT4, and I ain't lying. But now? Not anymore. Since FM3, T10 has changed Forza beyond anyone's belief, and noticed what they've been doing in their forums. Deleting anything that's negative about their precious franchise and banning people who say so as well. @Speedster911 nailed it down perfectly.

I feel bad for you and the "true" diehard fans of Forza that have to suffer from all this. Not the fanboys that have T10 up their rear so far up, their gone. I also noticed this too, and the good example is in this thread.

Really?? I dont agree.

 

[UKMikey]

I feel bad for you and the "true" diehard fans of Forza that have to suffer from all this. Not the fanboys that have T10 up their rear so far up, their gone. I also noticed this too, and the good example is in this thread.

Perhaps you could clear this up. Are you saying that true fans of Forza would've boycotted the game until it had the feature set they wanted while people who bought and enjoy the game despite its flaws are are arselicking fanboys? Just wondering since unlike the official forums, no-one here seems to be deleting negative comments about Forza but are instead debating them on their merits.

Apologies if I've misread or misunderstood your post.

 

[VXR]

@Speedster911 - I, along with many former Forza diehards will agree 100 percent with what you posted. Unfortunately, even here at a GT site, there are those who have dug themselves in to defend T10 and Forza no matter what. These types tend to get very emotional when you point out flaws in their favorite toys.

My favourite toy has the best photomode, great feeling cars and plenty of variety. No wonder I defend it, I enjoy it more than any other. I'd give my right arm for anything that took it further from track racing to let it go to locations as breathtaking as Driveclub to Dirt's Monte Carlo. I can't think of any racing features that would improve the racing side for me, unless it was a BTCC Super Touring era add-on. Funny how it works, catering for one set of fans rather than others. If it was further the way you want it, I'd probably hate it.

 

[Baltimore212]

So... how are the physics?

 

[TokoTurismo]

Perhaps you could clear this up. Are you saying that true fans of Forza would've boycotted the game until it had the feature set they wanted while people who bought and enjoy the game despite its flaws are are arselicking fanboys? Just wondering since unlike the official forums, no-one here seems to be deleting negative comments about Forza but are instead debating them on their merits.

Apologies if I've misread or misunderstood your post.

Yep. It is indeed the official forums I'm talking about.

 

[UKMikey]

Yep. It is indeed the official forums I'm talking about.

Once again, my apologies for any misunderstanding. When you said in this thread I wasn't sure whether you were referring to my previous post.

So... how are the physics?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/forza-5-physics-vs-gt6-аnd-other-sims.292112/

 

[McLaren]

Yea, because highly detailed models of the interiors of all the cars just happened overnight right? Of course the decision make them all autovista took time away from other things that could have been done. That being said, it's my belief that was only half the problem. The other half is Greenbucks and M$ realizing they had a large enough base of lemmings that would just lap up the rest of the cars via DLC.

Most of us learned long ago that anyone who can't refer to Microsoft as anything but M$ didn't really have opinions worth regarding with any importance to start.

Agreed, and I'll back you up to expend more. Let's face it, autovista overall is a feature that should have never existed in a racing game, or any racing game ever. Fans of the franchise have never asked for it, auto shows are there for that and no can't say otherwise. I remember using it once or twice in FM4, but then I never used it again. There was no reason at all to cut half the cars that were modelled so good out. I mean come on, the Reventon too?

Well, that's your opinion & just because you never use it doesn't mean no one else does. Fans may have never asked for it, but what they did ask title after title was for T10 to update many of the poor models from FM2 & 3. AutoVista has fixed many of those issues.

The only other alternative was PD's route; keep all the cars separated in 2 tiers. Yep, that worked out for PD considering the backlash it got as well. Both companies were screwed from the start regarding updating their rosters onto next gen.

As far as forum issues go, several of you need to realize the moderators put in place are not T10 staff. I don't know who appoints them & perhaps that person needs to be removed, but the mods I've observed over the years have been regular members promoted to it.

I don't agree with that choice, or the graphics-obsessed gamers, but the point is T10 makes a product. They don't brainstorm ways to rip people off.

No Wolfe, they clearly do. Remember? Their names are M$ & Greenbucks. It's all about benjamins to them & we're just lemmings since we think otherwise.

 

[Wolfe]

\Forza Horizon (from my experience) was used as a test subject to see if those were blind will buy its DLC that had some cars new to the series, some cars from the previous and some cars reused changing there appearances. Now that it had succeeded, T10 believes they can get away with it again due to, yet again, the fanboys. "Were not holding cars back" yeah okay Dan Lies a lot.

I bought all of Forza Horizon's DLC because it was a different game; a game that appealed to me more than FM4. Turn 10 never forced anyone to buy any of FM4's DLC (I skipped half of it), so some of the repeat DLC cars were only repeats if you chose to buy them for FM4 (a different game). Some bought Horizon's DLC because it was the only Forza game they've bought or played. It's not simply about being "blind" or a "fanboy." The game wasn't Forza Motorsport 4.5.

I don't think Forzavista is really a worthy use of development time and I don't think all of the FM4/FH assets needed to be reconstructed from scratch for FM5, but it's a new console, new standards of quality (regardless of whether I believe they're excessively high), a new experience. Turn 10 does exist to make a buck, but they aren't out to plunder our wallets. They produce what they believe people want. In Horizon, that meant a detailed open map on one DVD (versus FM4's two discs) that necessitated a cut in the car list, which meant the only way to bring back some of the cars people wanted was to reintroduce them as DLC; the only alternative was for them to remain gone forever. In FM5, it means delivering MEGA-ULTRA-HD GRAFIX with a smaller selection of all-new assets to satisfy the pixel- and polygon-phobes who rate games by graphical sophistication and expect a tangible bump in quality from a next-gen console. I don't agree with that choice, or the graphics-obsessed gamers, but the point is T10 makes a product. They don't brainstorm ways to rip people off.

 

[Imari]

Agreed, and I'll back you up to expend more. Let's face it, autovista overall is a feature that should have never existed in a racing game, or any racing game ever. Fans of the franchise have never asked for it, auto shows are there for that and no can't say otherwise. I remember using it once or twice in FM4, but then I never used it again. There was no reason at all to cut half the cars that were modelled so good out. I mean come on, the Reventon too?

Autovista is a logical extension of a photomode type game mode. Lots of people hate photomode too and find it a waste of time, and for others that's all they do.

If you're going to model cars to a high quality anyway, which they were, you might as well throw in a little extra like Auto/Forzavista so that the people who want to can get all anorak about it.

 

[shadynader]

@Speedster911 - I, along with many former Forza diehards will agree 100 percent with what you posted. Unfortunately, even here at a GT site, there are those who have dug themselves in to defend T10 and Forza no matter what. These types tend to get very emotional when you point out flaws in their favorite toys.

Ahh... Emotional investment... It's blinding Going purely off the regulars here I reckon about 99% of the time, I basically know just by looking at the name, what the stance of their posts are going to read like, who's going to like said post and who is going to oppose it. All without reading it. There was a thread that popped up in the GT6 section, I wont say the name of it but I knew just by the title who would have trouble agreeing with any of the points made and would try to deflect. I was not disappointed.

It's funny reading posts like "I don't care for weather and who likes night racing anyway" or "I'm glad PD left out a livery editor because I don't want to see penis cars every 2 minutes" Don't get me wrong, these might be genuine opinions of some people, in their own right that is (I can't think why any racing fan would be opposed but that's besides the point), they are normally followed by deflection. "but I'm all about Physics, Physics, Torque steer, Physics" or "No content, half a game, T10 is just out to **** you over" which again could be genuine feelings. But when linked in the way they are it is easy to see right through to the subtext.

People will always have preferred choices but I don't know why people would limit themselves to just one game when it is blatantly obvious to anybody with half an interest in cars or racing that neither of these titles are anywhere close to being the complete package and most probably never will be. What they do offer though is well worth the entry fee.

My biggest problem with the two games is that they are too similar in certain ways but they are still different enough to keep me entertained when I feel like playing, even though I am a 'racer' more than a 'car guy' and these games certainly are not the highest calibre racing games out there (see PC). I also feel the format is stale but that is probably down to fatigue of me playing FM 3 4 5 and GT PSP 5 6 in the order they released. But like I said, I'll be there come FM6 and GT7 and admiring what both bring to the table and I'm sure most people will still be around to defend their "favorite toy" of choice.

"He who dies with the most toys wins" 👍

 

[Bogie 19th]

Most Forza players if not all have a common gripe: T10 keeps eliminating the good stuff from the previous games to introduce new stuff.

Yup, we have been complaining about content missing. But we have overlooked the missing content for a new gen, new release game that needed to be started from scratch. Luckily it does what we want it to do. Race Race Race, with ACES physics and fun.

 

[Speedster911]

^^ Hmm, I can live with the start from scratch approach. FM on the first Xbox started as a rather humble but ambitious project. And look how it progressed over 2 generations of consoles! FM4 really did take the franchise to new heights.

I suppose they're off to a good start. Probably by FM6 or 7, we're going to be wayyy ahead of what they could do with FM 3 or 4 (in terms of progression and innovation).

 

[UKMikey]

Yup, we have been complaining about content missing. But we have overlooked the missing content for a new gen, new release game that needed to be started from scratch. Luckily it does what we want it to do. Race Race Race, with ACES physics and fun.

Yes, it pretty much delivered what they said it would in online articles and the only major thing missing seems to be legacy wheel support which I'm not using anyway, so it's tough for me to get emotionally worked up over the other omissions.

 

[VXR]

If taking a car around the track had suffered, then I could see having a Forzavista mode would be a step in the wrong direction, but the handling hasn't suffered and moved on so far from Forza 4 that I can't believe some are still on the fence due to only 200 cars. If they were all hyper cars with no variety and no imagination I could understand it, but they run a broad collection of different types of cars so really, it doesn't feel limited in numbers at all.

As for Forzavista, well if you get to look around a 250 GTO on a regular basis, more power to you. For the rest of us, it's allowing you to virtually look around cars you might never see in real life and that's not a bad deal for anyone.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Wasnt a fan of Forzavista until recently...Now im loving it and use it everytime i buy a new car.

 

[skazz]

Just out of interest, is there any concrete release news on track DLC for Forza 5?

I enjoyed Forza 3/4 as much as GT5, but the limited track selection in Forza 4 got pretty old. I can't justify buying the XBOne (when they finally release it in my country) and a TX wheel right now because I know I'll get frustrated by the launch tracklist very quickly. A laser scanned Nordschleife would help, but Forza seems to have dropped a lot of the short configuration tracks as well presumably leave a big hole in the variety of the lower classes.... Or am I being pessimistic about this?

 

[Myles Prower]

The games a nice filler as I wait for PCARS to come out

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

Most of us learned long ago that anyone who can't refer to Microsoft as anything but M$ didn't really have opinions worth regarding with any importance to start.

Trust me, it didn't take any kind of extra symbols for me to figure that out about your posts. Of course, on any forum, little boys using hot women as avatars tend to have nothing important to say on any subject.

Agreed, and I'll back you up to expend more. Let's face it, autovista overall is a feature that should have never existed in a racing game, or any racing game ever. Fans of the franchise have never asked for it, auto shows are there for that and no can't say otherwise. I remember using it once or twice in FM4, but then I never used it again. There was no reason at all to cut half the cars that were modelled so good out. I mean come on, the Reventon too?

The only reason I believe why the cars were cut out from FM5, is not because of Autovista, but to buy them again via DLC. Forza Horizon (from my experience) was used as a test subject to see if those were blind will buy its DLC that had some cars new to the series, some cars from the previous and some cars reused changing there appearances. Now that it had succeeded, T10 believes they can get away with it again due to, yet again, the fanboys. "Were not holding cars back" yeah okay Dan Lies a lot.

I myself was a big fan of Forza from back then. I mean I said before Forza 1 was better than GT4, and I ain't lying. But now? Not anymore. Since FM3, T10 has changed Forza beyond anyone's belief, and noticed what they've been doing in their forums. Deleting anything that's negative about their precious franchise and banning people who say so as well. @Speedster911 nailed it down perfectly.

I feel bad for you and the "true" diehard fans of Forza that have to suffer from all this. Not the fanboys that have T10 up their rear so far up, their gone. I also noticed this too, and the good example is in this thread.

Yea, Autovista has no business in a racing game. But that's the problem. Despite what the handfull of defenders will say here, Forza has long since quit trying to be a racing game. It's just a game for graphics obsessed casual car lovers now, with racing just a sideshow they include because they know noone would buy their car show on it's own merits. I often wonder how it was the racing genre that got saddled with all this casual fluff. You don't see anyone whining there's no photomode in Call of Duty. Noone whining they can't see the engine parts of their Warthog's in Halo.

Like many I used to be huge Forza fan. Forza 1 and 2 were epic racing games. The "true" fans have long since been left behind though. And it's such a shame that fanboyism is so rampant on both sides of the debate. You got these guys over here acting like you insulted their moms when you say something bad about Forza. Then there's ones who act the same if you say something bad about GT. Both sets are detriments to their respective communities.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Yea, Autovista has no business in a racing game. But that's the problem. Despite what the handfull of defenders will say here, Forza has long since quit trying to be a racing game. It's just a game for graphics obsessed casual car lovers now, with racing just a sideshow they include because they know noone would buy their car show on it's own merits. I often wonder how it was the racing genre that got saddled with all this casual fluff. You don't see anyone whining there's no photomode in Call of Duty. Noone whining they can't see the engine parts of their Warthog's in Halo.

Like many I used to be huge Forza fan. Forza 1 and 2 were epic racing games. The "true" fans have long since been left behind though. And it's such a shame that fanboyism is so rampant on both sides of the debate. You got these guys over here acting like you insulted their moms when you say something bad about Forza. Then there's ones who act the same if you say something bad about GT. Both sets are detriments to their respective communities.

Granted, you are in the minority on your opinion, but honestly, I can't take this serious.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

The only reason I believe why the cars were cut out from FM5, is not because of Autovista, but to buy them again via DLC. Forza Horizon (from my experience) was used as a test subject to see if those were blind will buy its DLC that had some cars new to the series, some cars from the previous and some cars reused changing there appearances. Now that it had succeeded, T10 believes they can get away with it again due to, yet again, the fanboys. "Were not holding cars back" yeah okay Dan Lies a lot.

Sorry Toko, but I think you're a little out of line with this comment. I bought all of Horizon's DLC. Not because I'm a T10 fanboy, but because I legitimately love Forza Horizon. It's my favorite Forza and I'm still finding time to enjoy it to this day while a lot of people were done with the game in a few weeks or shorter after its release. I'm finding use out of all of the DLC cars, even the ones that were already in FM4. So I don't feel ripped off by T10 at all. As @Wolfe said, it's a completely different game.

 

[UKMikey]

Granted, you are in the minority on your opinion, but honestly, I can't take this serious.

I like how he claims to be part of some huge majority of "true" fans that think Forza isn't a racing game.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I like how he claims to be part of some huge majority of "true" fans that think Forza isn't a racing game.

He should spend more time with us at the insidesimracing forums as well as the official forums. I guess the minority seems to be in the majority there,

 

[shadynader]

He should spend more time with us at the insidesimracing forums as well as the official forums. I guess the minority seems to be in the majority there,

I am on ISR... I fail to see how you came to the conclusion that you did, unless there is a secret place for all these fans to hang out and no one told me It's pretty much as barren as the GT section. IRacing rules the roost over there as it should do considering the site has the words racing and sim in its title.

Here's the thing, there are many, many factors that make up what is considered a true racing simulation. Forza does not meet the criteria in a lot of respects (for the sake of anybody's feelings let me say GT falls way short too). To be honest, a lot of my die hard sim playing friends scoff at me for playing the console racers in the same way I gently rib my real friends for playing the likes of NFS or Horizon and expect my admiration for their driving skills.

Here's the general feeling amongst the sim playing community. You have your 'racing sims'... your IRacings, Rfactor2s, GameStockCars of this world. then you have your 'semi sims'... Your Forzas, PCars, Turismos, etc. Then 'arcade racers'... NFS, Horizons, etc

 

[Bogie 19th]

I am on ISR... I fail to see how you came to the conclusion that you did, unless there is a secret place for all these fans to hang out and no one told me It's pretty much as barren as the GT section. IRacing rules the roost over there as it should do considering the site has the words racing and sim in its title.

I am there too, lol. Of course IRacing rules...jesus...that's a no brainer

Here's the thing, there are many, many factors that make up what is considered a true racing simulation. Forza does not meet the criteria in a lot of respects (for the sake of anybody's feelings let me say GT falls way short too). To be honest, a lot of my die hard sim playing friends scoff at me for playing the console racers in the same way I gently rib my real friends for playing the likes of NFS or Horizon and expect my admiration for their driving skills.

Yup, which is why sadly, the best option on console is Race Pro 07 from Simbin. Unless you want to race on PC, we have to settle for Forza and GT on console.

Here's the general feeling amongst the sim playing community. You have your 'racing sims'... your IRacings, Rfactor2s, GameStockCars of this world. then you have your 'semi sims'... Your Forzas, PCars, Turismos, etc. Then 'arcade racers'... NFS, Horizons, etc

Exactly. That's how it been for us for years.

 

[The Stig Farmer]

You people and your quaint little categories

Anyway, can we add "simcade" to the mix? Basically games that have their roots in the real world but have been dressed up a bit. I'm thinking of things like Horizon, DiRT, Grid etc... don't think it's fair to lump them in with Need for Speed and the like.

 

[shadynader]

Yup, which is why sadly, the best option on console is Race Pro 07 from Simbin. Unless you want to race on PC, we have to settle for Forza and GT on console.

I don't see why anyone who is interested enough to go into and compare, minute details, physics and realism in racing games, as you guys do, would settle for a console. I just cant get that round my head.

Exactly. That's how it been for us for years.

That's for everyone who may be in doubt.

You people and your quaint little categories

Anyway, can we add "simcade" to the mix? Basically games that have their roots in the real world but have been dressed up a bit. I'm thinking of things like Horizon, DiRT, Grid etc... don't think it's fair to lump them in with Need for Speed and the like.

I don't think its fair that pcars is lumped with GT and FM. I think it will be a lot more advanced on track in terms of most things. I'm with you but thats the vibe thats generally out there... Might as well add Arcimulator too while we are at it

 

[McLaren]

Trust me, it didn't take any kind of extra symbols for me to figure that out about your posts. Of course, on any forum, little boys using hot women as avatars tend to have nothing important to say on any subject.

Little boy, that's funny coming from someone who likely has been in high school the past 4+ years considering the only thing you can reply is to use my own statement towards you.

It's ok, some folks weren't meant to make it far down the evolution scale.

I like how he claims to be part of some huge majority of "true" fans that think Forza isn't a racing game.

He should spend more time with us at the insidesimracing forums as well as the official forums. I guess the minority seems to be in the majority there,

Just ignore him. Just a pissy fan who thinks the game should cater to his wants just because he's been playing since the beginning, but attempts to reinforce that view by ignorantly stating that all "true" fans share his view as well.

 

[mister dog]

Yup, which is why sadly, the best option on console is Race Pro 07 from Simbin. Unless you want to race on PC, we have to settle for Forza and GT on console.

Actually ordered Race Pro last week (should get it in the next days), I'm quite a good console racer so let's see how well i fare with this one as i never played a PC sim before.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I don't see why anyone who is interested enough to go into and compare, minute details, physics and realism in racing games, as you guys do, would settle for a console. I just cant get that round my head.

I do both PC and console. As for why others choose to not race on PC, they have their reasoning.

But since we are talking about console games here, and they want to race on console (as do I), we will all compare, minute details, physics and realism in racing games on consoles as well.