Forza 5 physics vs GT6 аnd other sims

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ildd
GT6 has some torque steer, just not as much as it should be.
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My understanding was that on a flat surface it had none. All the examples I've seen of claimed torque steer have been on non-flat surfaces (ie. Goodwood).

The tire width bug was fixed with 1.03.
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Good to know.
 
Imari
Because it's impossible to get measurements out of GT, because it doesn't provide telemetry.

But you're talking about a game that had at least two entirely separate physics modes in GT5P, three in GT5 (online/offline/SRF). Which physics are we comparing?

GT still doesn't model tyre pressure. GT presumably doesn't model tyre deformation either, because if they do it's the most well kept secret ever. GT has demonstrably no torque steer on a flat surface. Tyre width wasn't modelled at all in GT5, and last I checked it was buggy in GT6. GT has tyres (RS) with close to physically impossible levels of grip. I'm sure there's more stuff I'm forgetting, and I haven't gotten into the subjective stuff yet.

These things can be compared, because one game has them and the other doesn't.
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Speaking of flat surfaces, levels of grip and buggy modelling. In Forza 5, it seems cars will only rollover on the grass.
Do you think that's a flaw in the physics or tyre model? Or perhaps a hidden driver aid that prevents the car rolling over while on track?
 
Imari
Because it's impossible to get measurements out of GT, because it doesn't provide telemetry.

<snip>
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Since it is impossible to get telemetry out of GT, how is it possible to compare GT's physics with others? Quantitatively.
 
jimipitbull
Speaking of flat surfaces, levels of grip and buggy modelling. In Forza 5, it seems cars will only rollover on the grass.
Do you think that's a flaw in the physics or tyre model? Or perhaps a hidden driver aid that prevents the car rolling over while on track?
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I've rolled a car on Tarmac. So no, no physics issues there.
 
GBO Possum
Since it is impossible to get telemetry out of GT, how is it possible to compare GT's physics with others? Quantitatively.
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You can't do it quantitatively, obviously, and nobody claimed that you could.

What you can do is compare them qualitatively and subjectively, which you'll notice is pretty much the whole thread. There are reproduceable tests that can be performed, they just don't give you a number output.

jimipitbull
Speaking of flat surfaces, levels of grip and buggy modelling. In Forza 5, it seems cars will only rollover on the grass.
Do you think that's a flaw in the physics or tyre model? Or perhaps a hidden driver aid that prevents the car rolling over while on track?
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Not to a great extent. It's difficult to do, but it can be done. It's pretty difficult to roll a car on tarmac in real life too without the help of bumps or other things.

There was a huge fuss way back when the original A-class failed it's elk test, simply because any remotely modern car isn't supposed to be able to do that no matter how badly you mistreat it.

Having never tried to seriously roll a car in real life (and having no intention of starting now), I still think it would be a lot harder than most people expect. It's not the movies, cars are designed pretty much with the specific goal of keeping all four wheels on the ground as much as possible, and that includes making sure the loaded wheel lets go before the CoG has enough force on it to start to topple.
 
Imari
You can't do it quantitatively, obviously, and nobody claimed that you could.

What you can do is compare them qualitatively and subjectively, which you'll notice is pretty much the whole thread. There are reproduceable tests that can be performed, they just don't give you a number output.



Not to a great extent. It's difficult to do, but it can be done. It's pretty difficult to roll a car on tarmac in real life too without the help of bumps or other things.

There was a huge fuss way back when the original A-class failed it's elk test, simply because any remotely modern car isn't supposed to be able to do that no matter how badly you mistreat it.

Having never tried to seriously roll a car in real life (and having no intention of starting now), I still think it would be a lot harder than most people expect. It's not the movies, cars are designed pretty much with the specific goal of keeping all four wheels on the ground as much as possible, and that includes making sure the loaded wheel lets go before the CoG has enough force on it to start to topple.
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I was in a 96 Monte Carlo (by no means a sport car or ridged ride) the driver managed to get in a sideways slide and subsequent tank slapper down the interstate at 75mph. I can say from experience cars do not "trip" easily. He managed to pull out of the slide, eventually.
 
SlyNine
I was in a 96 Monte Carlo (by no means a sport car or ridged ride) the driver managed to get in a sideways slide and subsequent tank slapper down the interstate at 75mph. I can say from experience cars do not "trip" easily. He managed to pull out of the slide, eventually.
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Though, on the other hand, I was in a 1997 Lumina (which was basically the same thing) where the driver got it very sideways and it did go up and over as soon as the front wheels bit (I even made a thread about it at the time; Wolfe probably remembers). It's very much a matter of circumstance.
 
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There are many factors that decide whether a car will flip. The weight, were it is distributed, suspension configuration, conditions at the time (weather, wind velocity etc.) grip of the surface... It would be very difficult to accurately model in a game. I have rolled a car on tarmac in FM5.
 
Tornado
Though, on the other hand, I was in a 1997 Lumina (which was basically the same thing) where the driver got it very sideways and it did go up and over as soon as the front wheels bit (I even made a thread about it at the time; Wolfe probably remembers). It's very much a matter of circumstance.
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I've spun a few, all on purpose without a hint of roll except for one. I was in a 95 Chevy Blazer and it hydroplaned at 50 mph. I did a 540 across 5 lanes and came to a stop on the edge of the shoulder facing the right direction. I needed more than new tires after that. If anything would have flipped i figured it would have been that.
 
Speedster911
Well, it's the same in all the PS3 GT games as well. But somehow, the cars during replays in GT games have always looked better.

I really wish T10 would give heed to requests of keeping the replay AND racing running at 60 fps. It really would make my day for sure, for a more realistic, TV race-like experience.
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That's always been my gripe with Forza, the replay is pants...
 
Yep, there was a time when I used to get mildly excited over FM4 replays, but they get stale fast.

With all of the GT games, I used to never get tired of the replays. Particularly the PS2 GT games - race and replays @ 60 fps.. that was a godsend!

Remember how GT gives you the option to have the cameras either car or track focused? That coupled with fresh camera angles with practically lap was the stuff!

It really is a shame and quite sad how a game with such an unbelievable car and track count, content and gameplay could fall so short in the sound design department.

Swear to God man, if PD just puts aside everything else, and focuses on sound development and physics exclusively... I just might get the PS4, just for this ONE game!
 
Tornado
Though, on the other hand, I was in a 1997 Lumina (which was basically the same thing) where the driver got it very sideways and it did go up and over as soon as the front wheels bit (I even made a thread about it at the time; Wolfe probably remembers). It's very much a matter of circumstance.
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My point wasn't that it couldn't happen, it's that it takes the right conditions. But I'd still say that its still unlikely in most conditions. I think it happens more often when the wheels hit something while sliding, or go off road and dig in to the dirt.

Cars rolled to easy in FM4. Perhaps they don't roll easy enough in FM5. But so what, it's not perfect.
 
Speedster911
Yep, there was a time when I used to get mildly excited over FM4 replays, but they get stale fast.

With all of the GT games, I used to never get tired of the replays. Particularly the PS2 GT games - race and replays @ 60 fps.. that was a godsend!

Remember how GT gives you the option to have the cameras either car or track focused? That coupled with fresh camera angles with practically lap was the stuff!

It really is a shame and quite sad how a game with such an unbelievable car and track count, content and gameplay could fall so short in the sound design department.

Swear to God man, if PD just puts aside everything else, and focuses on sound development and physics exclusively... I just might get the PS4, just for this ONE game!
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Agreed. Just imagine this. If PD was worth to show off a trailer of GT7 at E3 this year, and mainly focused on showing off the new sounds like #DriveClub. That'll be so epic! 👍
 
Fezz_ST
I have, my argument stands, unless something has changed in the 4 weeks I haven't played it
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Something did change. They altered the physics for MR cars about 3 weeks ago. They recently altered the 4WD physics too.
 
So does that mean that everyone arguing GT6 had better physics than FM5 from launch where wrong?!
 
Fezz_ST
So does that mean that everyone arguing GT6 had better physics than FM5 from launch where wrong?!
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I couldn't tell you mate, not played fm5 yet :/. I just know that gt6 had its physics improved after launch. My logitech wheel broke so I've not even experienced gt6 with a wheel to say how realistic it is. I just sold my xbox 360 wheel. Its amazing how changing to a wheel makes them totally different games. Man, how I hate the pad lol.
 

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