Forza 5 physics vs GT6 аnd other sims

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I think different people have different ideas about what - what is the "driving physics" For some - it's physics unmodified road cars from the garage rent, how these cars are similar to real cars. For others - is the physics of the car after a serious tuning and tuned for racing. Perhaps this is why there is no consensus and a lot of controversy.
no matter the situation youre describing, the physics are not changing.
 
I think different people have different ideas about what - what is the "driving physics" For some - it's physics unmodified road cars from the garage rent, how these cars are similar to real cars. For others - is the physics of the car after a serious tuning and tuned for racing. Perhaps this is why there is no consensus and a lot of controversy.

IMO, unless a physics engine makes an obvious blunder its hard to crown one over the other. They don't have any way to test out scenarios (a sandbox of sorts). Even if they did how to contend with all the variables. Even if you could manage to give the cars the same inputs things like tire pressure, road surface, tire type, etc. are almost impossible to control. While you can point out flaws that are way outside the norm, It gets tricky when they all fall somewhat close. Unless we agree on a set of tests and outcomes; with proper testing methodologies and a good scoring system. A way to test physics that is repeatable. I'm not sure how anyone can be convinced one sim is better than the other.
 
What might be toughest to figure out is normal or mild driving, well within the limits of traction. When testing a game, I use extreme maneuvers and drifting techniques to push the physics engine out of its comfort zone. Hard Scandinavian flicks, tank slappers, lift-off oversteer, and so on. Even if a game "feels right" when you're racing, something is inaccurate in the physics engine if drifting doesn't work right.
 
Now, I'm planning on buying a classic 1990 Miata in real life and I've been comparing the car in GT6/FM5 and they drive so differently, how do I even make a judgment lol?
 
I like that in F5 - cars roll over - correctly. in F4 and Gt6 overturn a car during an accident - it is difficult
 
A replica from my garage - HKS CZ200S vs real HKS CZ200S :)

GT6 has some shortcomings, but in the end I have to make the most of what's given.
Would love to see FM5 replica of HKS CZ200S at Tsukuba :D :grumpy: Forgot FM5 has no Tsukuba :banghead:

 
What do you think about this?
Steering wheel for Xbox one yet are exotic, fm5 among players. But first of all interested in the opinions of owners of steering wheels.and comparison with how it feels Gt6 vs fm5 and compared with fm4 and PC simulators.
But since most of the players using the joystick, your opinion is also interesting.In gt6 very easy to overturn a car, it is in fm5?
You can't turn the cars in forza 5, the physics suck
 
You can't turn the cars in forza 5, the physics suck
Thats weird, I've seen many videos of FM5 and all the cars looked like they were turning. Even from personal experience, I'm pretty sure my cars turn as well..
 
Thats weird, I've seen many videos of FM5 and all the cars looked like they were turning. Even from personal experience, I'm pretty sure my cars turn as well..
That is compared to actually driving a car on a track....yes I understand that must seem weird to you...you probably don't have a license yet lmao
 
That is compared to actually driving a car on a track....yes I understand that must seem weird to you...you probably don't have a license yet lmao
So, in other words, you're not able to prove what you say. Got it 👍
 
Get out of mommy's basement and go do some driving on an actual track young fella....
I'm not sure how that is going to show us how the cars aren't turning in FM5, because we can all clearly see that they are.

You'd think that being an adult in mid 40's you'd be able to put up more of a debatable argument other than "LoLz dis game sux." Your 40 year old self reminds me of my 14 year old self.
 
I'm not sure how that is going to show us how the cars aren't turning in FM5, because we can all clearly see that they are.

You'd think that being an adult in mid 40's you'd be able to put up more of a debatable argument other than "LoLz dis game sux." Your 40 year old self reminds me of my 14 year old self.
Awww ouch
 
^^All it takes is one to mess it up for everyone

What is this FM6 your talking about anyway
Compared to the physics in gt6 and assetto corsa, the physics when turning a car at higher speeds in forza 5 is way off....and no one here was talking about forza 6
 
The weight transfer was by far the worst problem I had with FM4. Look, I am a horrible gamer, but I am a very experienced racing driver, so when I play these sims, I bring with me the information and experience I've gathered from the track. A friend of mine that I play with on GT6, for example, has no real-life track experience, but he plays sim-races a lot. When we compare lap times in GT6, he absolutely schools me. Meanwhile, almost all of my lap times in both GT6 and FM5 are almost identical to my real-life times. I drive in the games the same way I drive in real-life.

That being said, if I'm playing a racing game, I am expecting certain behaviors and factors to take place. When they don't, I fall flat on my face. There are times when I snap-correct a potential oversteer that should actually happen, but doesn't end up happening in the game, thus just causing the car to pivot as if a drunk driver is behind the wheel. The more unrealistic the game is, the worse I am at it, so to speak.

Now, back to FM4. The weight transfer under braking is awful! A lot of cars understeer like pigs when their balance should fall forward and I just can't tell where on earth the grip in the tires are in that game. FM5 feels so much better. Anyone that claims that FM5 is just a slight improvement over FM4 surely doesn't know what to look for. GT6 is also full of flaws.

Here's something that might not make much sense. Both Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport are able to replicate how vehicles handle very well. It's when the cars don't handle very well where both games still need major improvements. Not sure if that makes much sense to anyone or if I'm just an old man babbling. When you have control of the car, it drives how it should. It's when you lose control that the games need to work on.

Very interesting post @TheCrazySwede . So given all that you said, what's your conclusion? How do you compare GT6 to FM? Are they equal, i.e. both have different flaws, but equally so, or is one clearly better than the other from a realistic physics point of view? And how much relative experience do you have in each game? (I'm assuming you use a wheel?)

(BTW... Commiefornia... cracked me up!) :)
 
Very interesting post @TheCrazySwede . So given all that you said, what's your conclusion? How do you compare GT6 to FM? Are they equal, i.e. both have different flaws, but equally so, or is one clearly better than the other from a realistic physics point of view? And how much relative experience do you have in each game? (I'm assuming you use a wheel?)

(BTW... Commiefornia... cracked me up!) :)

Haha, glad you liked that little footnote on California. Too many laws restricting proper motoring around here! :P
I've been a GT fan since the very first one, and I still am. Forza I've been playing since FM2, so I would say I got a good amount of experience with both.

FM5 compared to GT6 is quite unfair, actually, but even so, GT6 does make a nice stand on its own compared to the next-gen (current-gen now, I suppose) flagship racer. Things like graphical fidelity and sounds aside, GT6 is a brilliant game. Compared to FM4, GT6 simulates weight transfer very well. Catching tank-slappers as you throw your car around a track just gave GT6 a whole other dimension of driving compared to FM4's rather dull driving feel. You see, high performance cars like supercars, for example, have a ton of grip due to their setup and tires. What this means is that you'd have to work a bit harder to lose the grip, and when you do, the car "snaps" on you. It doesn't gradually lose grip like some Fiat on skinny econ-tires. On tracks like the Nordschleife, where you start going down-hill at very high speeds, leaning your car to one side while accelerating wouldn't cause your car to slide (like it does in FM4) but instead it would lose grip completely, throw you around and perhaps even flip. Now, even though GT6 doesn't always flip your vehicle over, it doesn't slide around like FM4 as if the car has so much grip it just skids around. Take a car slightly sideways downhill at high speeds, like the first sector of the Nordschleife or the drop between Turn 1 and Turn 2 at Laguna Seca, and begin to apply some throttle and the car tosses you around in GT6. Same thing if you decelerate at speed. FM4 just doesn't do that at all, and it takes away a lot of expectations from someone like me, who has experienced these things on a real circuit and when playing the game starts to react to the situation, expecting it to happen, but then it doesn't. Oddly enough, you get torque steer in FM4, but you don't get it in GT6. FWD cars just can't oversteer in GT6 for some reason.

I believe FM5 is a huge improvement over FM4, especially in the weight transfer and the suspension simulation under load. To anyone who has played FM5, but hasn't tried it with a wheel yet, know that it's a huge difference. Currently, FM5 is the most realistic console-sim I've played. It still has that slight gradual grip loss that eases you into loss of traction a bit too much. Don't get me wrong, you do experience gradual grip loss in real life, but it just feels like FM5 has some hidden assist holding your hand a little when this happens. I've been able to recover some ridiculous spins in FM5 that I would have no chance in recovering IRL. It is a game, after all, but the FM series has come a long way.

As someone who's a fan of both FM and GT, I'm very excited for the release of FM6 and GT7.
 
Here's another example of someone who understands what I mean with FM4's sliding grip.
He's set times around the Nordschleife in a Lexus LFA, along with many other cars, and compares his experience with FM4. Keep annotations on for subtitles.

Forward video to 3:44

 
One slight issue with that comparison that has come up before.

They are not the same LFA version. The one in FM4 is a Standard LFA, while the real one is an LFA Nurburgring, which has revised aero, suspension, engine, gearbox and different tyres.
 
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One slight issue with that comparison that has come up before.

They are not the same LFA version. The one in FM4 is a Standard LFA, while the real one is an LFA Nurburgring, which has revised aero, suspension, engine and gearbox.
There will still be similarities
 
There will still be similarities
And there will be differences, particularly given that one is optimized for the 'ring over the other.

Not to mention that the 'ring in FM4 is longer, wider and has totally different corner radius', add all those together and you have a comparison that has far to many potential issues with it to be considered objective.

One example I can also give is that the Autoweek reviewer complains that the real LFA has more grip and can take certain corners quicker than the game one, however the Evo review of the LFA Nur (at the 'ring) points out one of te advantages of the Nur over the standard car is its ability to take certain corners quicker!

A comparison should be between two cars of an identical spec at the very least.
 
And there will be differences, particularly given that one is optimized for the 'ring over the other.

Not to mention that the 'ring in FM4 is longer, wider and has totally different corner radius', add all those together and you have a comparison that has far to many potential issues with it to be considered objective.

One example I can also give is that the Autoweek reviewer complains that the real LFA has more grip and can take certain corners quicker than the game one, however the Evo review of the LFA Nur (at the 'ring) points out one of te advantages of the Nur over the standard car is its ability to take certain corners quicker!

A comparison should be between two cars of an identical spec at the very least.
A comparison of forza 5 with the real lap would be great.
 
A comparison of forza 5 with the real lap would be great.

This may be of interest (in LFA Nur terms)...

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/supercarvideos/273850/lexus_lfa_nurburgring_edition_video_review.html

...Chris Harris drove both back to back and describes the LFA Nur as having more mechanical grip than the standard car very early on (around 0:50 in the video).

I agree a FM5 lap comparison would be better, but having driven the 'ring I have to say that lap comparisons with games (and lap time in particular) can be massively misleading. Too many variables are at play to draw anything but very rough comparisons.
 
One slight issue with that comparison that has come up before.

They are not the same LFA version. The one in FM4 is a Standard LFA, while the real one is an LFA Nurburgring, which has revised aero, suspension, engine, gearbox and different tyres.

The point I was making wasn't to compare the two cars to each other. Just meant to point out what I was explaining earlier how in FM4, cars skid and slide a lot compared to how well some of these cars handle. The cars don't have that "snap" effect I was mentioning earlier. And as far as Chris Harris goes, that man wouldn't mind living in a world where everything slips and slides, haha.
 
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