Forza Motorsport 7 E3 2017 Breakout Session: Putting Players in Control

4,167
Ireland
Warwick, UK
PJTierney
PJTierney
Some good nuggets of information there.

Still no word on if the Storefront will return; that was a good feature for painters and tuners in Forza Horizon 3 as it was much easier to find high quality content than it was in Forza Motorsport 6.
 
189
United States
United States
I want to love Forza but man I wish they would focus more of their attention on the driving experience. To me GT and Forza are both caught in there own loops. With every new iteration they either take steps backwards or push forward on things no one cares about.

Staying with Forza. After PCARS and AC taking most of my time I returned to Forza 6. I love the production value. The graphics the car collecting and customization. But it's all for not. The handling has improved over the years but it still feels like a FORZA game. If you drive the car outside the limits the whole thing falls apart. The cars have zero turn in. Steering inputs have to be gradual and the car has to be traveling at just the right speed for the corner. I strongly believe this is there to hide the fact that the cars pivot on a center axis.

The driver models and animations are so wrong I find it distracting and the replay's are rubbish. They look great when you get the right angle but it's rare. Can you just give us a TV presentation option and slow down the pace in the editing. GT is king in this department. If only their sound was good.

Sound could always be better. They were on the right track with FM4 but seem to go backwards after they lost the guy... forgot his name. He's on the GT team now, right?

Of course we could get into all the things it lacks as an actual racing sim, race weekends, qualifying etc. But to me if you can't get the fundamentals right whats the point.

PCARS 1 in my mind hit a great balance. It has it's problems but they seem to be addressing them with this next one. If they nail it I just don't see why I'd ever play the other games. But this is coming from someone who loves racing and the feel of driving a car. Then watching a replay that feels like I'm there. The other bells and whistles come second for me.

Anyway. I'm only frustrated because it's so close. Sorry for the rant. It's been said before but if only all these games could have a unprotected sex orgy, we'd get the perfect baby.
 
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576
mrPetros
great coverage from GT Planet! extra kudos!!

Sound could always be better. They were on the right track with FM4 but seem to go backwards after they lost the guy... forgot his name. He's on the GT team now, right?
wrong. the better audio guy still is at turn10, Nick Wiswell. he was doing sound in PGR2, PGR3, PGR4 before that.
AND Forza4, 5 and 6 ;)
GT got the former guy, but still a good catch. he knows how to create and run an audio studio.


if you pay attention to Forza7 E3 videos, sounds are already greatly improved from Forza6. Music options too(this article)
 
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3,163
France
France
"Even on track, if you’re driving through Le Mans and you pass the straights, the music that’s coming out of the speakers is going to be yours."
Cool feature! Not a game changer but I like how Turn 10 tries to make the game more lively.
 
1,052
Germany
Near Nürburgring
DanPrez
"Even on track, if you’re driving through Le Mans and you pass the straights, the music that’s coming out of the speakers is going to be yours."
Cool feature! Not a game changer but I like how Turn 10 tries to make the game more lively.

Honestly, when driving through LeMans, i don't want to hear any music at all! Just some engine running wild.
 
14,028
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Honestly, when driving through LeMans, i don't want to hear any music at all! Just some engine running wild.
Well than I suppose it's good that we can have an option to turn it on or off if we want.
 
10,458
Canada
Canada
Turn 10 keeps on blowing my mind on how much effort they put into their games. This Forza in particular will be my most favourite one! For one, I'm so glad Forza won't be your typical 'hardcore racing sim' that only focuses on being "hardcore". Instead, it is giving you joy and more freedom to let you do what you, as a player, want.

I appreciate what T10 are doing here so far, and hope they keep this up before release. Just hope they include stuff others are looking for though. ^^
 
6,214
England
England
I have the PS4 pro and T300 wheel, and I have really enjoyed all the Forzas on the old Xbox One as well on controller :indiff: I can see me buying an Xbox X, I can feel it happening just for Forza7 photomode:nervous: ..we shall see :sly: Is there any news on VR support for Forza on Console Xbox X etc?
 
189
United States
United States
I don't get the complaints about a feature that is not forced on people. Simple solution is turn off music.

Your right. I'm just expressing my frustration. This option/feature speaks to my original point. I want them to address the issues related to driving.

Their talking about hearing music down that straight. That's great, cool little touch. But that straight is about driving and handling the machine at high speeds. In FM 6 there is zero road feel. I want to feel the road not hear Thom Yorke crooning in the background.
 
14,028
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Your right. I'm just expressing my frustration. This option/feature speaks to my original point. I want them to address the issues related to driving.
So this feature added, and them quickly mentioning it, means that its not happening?

If these quotes are anything to go by
5:10 - Five year vision for the franchise (physics, gameplay, FRC, eSports etc.).
10:50 - Weather system and physics first (11:15 - Talks about Jebel Hafeet weather; dangerous place for scanning team due to extreme heat).
Then it would seem that something in the physics department is getting worked on. I haven't watched the vid yet so I dont know of what.

Their talking about hearing music down that straight. That's great, cool little touch. But that straight is about driving and handling the machine at high speeds. In FM 6 there is zero road feel. I want to feel the road not hear Thom Yorke crooning in the background.
Are you talking about with a wheel? Me being a pad user I wouldn't be able to feel the road like a wheel user, but I can definitely notice the bumpiness when driving cars.

Still if you don't want to hear it than the simple solution is just to turn it off.
 
576
mrPetros
I don't get the complaints about a feature that is not forced on people. Simple solution is turn off music.
I saw on one of the interviews mechberg, t10 communty manager say that this time they start with default music=off during race.
on e3 demos you can also see that.

Their talking about hearing music down that straight. That's great, cool little touch. But that straight is about driving and handling the machine at high speeds. In FM 6 there is zero road feel. I want to feel the road not hear Thom Yorke crooning in the background.
hold on a minute! not everybody has same taste as you. maybe I wana rock my favorite songs while I roar online. they implemented stuff people are asking. its not like they announce ONLY about music, right? :)

Is there any news on VR support for Forza on Console Xbox X etc?
facts:
-microsoft and amd are building a VR headset together (latest VR conf. , VP amd)
-phil spencer said no VR on xbox until everyting handy and wireless
-t10 says they have nothing to announce yet. (they did announce having a 30% GPU overhead though ;) )
 
189
United States
United States
I am a wheel user. I'm not trolling. My frustration comes from a love for what this game offers. T10 always talks about improving their phyisics and they usually do. Just never enough. The problem for me now is there is so much more competition than ever before. I want them to stay relevant for all the good things they do. That's it.:cheers:
 
563
Italy
Italy
So this feature added, and them quickly mentioning it, means that its not happening?

If these quotes are anything to go by


Then it would seem that something in the physics department is getting worked on. I haven't watched the vid yet so I dont know of what.


Are you talking about with a wheel? Me being a pad user I wouldn't be able to feel the road like a wheel user, but I can definitely notice the bumpiness when driving cars.

Still if you don't want to hear it than the simple solution is just to turn it off.
To elaborate a little more: Dan said that bells and whistles (clouds, thunderstorms etc.) are part of the weather system but that's not where It started for them: It's about the physics and the driving experience. He then talks about studying the dynamicism of heat building up in the tires.

Anyway, the driving feel and feedback that you get from the tires, road etc. isn't something that can be described. Everyone has to play the game (be it with a pad or a steering wheel) to know if something has changed. Thankfully, Turn 10 always releases a demo.
 
189
United States
United States
To elaborate a little more: Dan said that bells and whistles (clouds, thunderstorms etc.) are part of the weather system but that's not where It started for them: It's about the physics and the driving experience. He then talks about studying the dynamicism of heat building up in the tires.

Anyway, the driving feel and feedback that you get from the tires, road etc. isn't something that can be described. Everyone has to play the game (be it with a pad or a steering wheel) to know if something has changed. Thankfully, Turn 10 always releases a demo.

Yes we won't know what it is until we play it and even then we'll all have our own opinions. But like I said before Danny boy is a master at PR. The FM4 E3 presentation was amazing. They pulled out all the stops. The biggest thing was their tire model. That's when they introduced tire flex. It was supposed to be the greatest most sophisticated tire model ever created. The game came out and it wasn't even close to that. The game was just as slippery as ever with minor improvements.
It's just my opinion.:gtpflag:
 
88
United States
Bear De
moparhippy420
I have the PS4 pro and T300 wheel, and I have really enjoyed all the Forzas on the old Xbox One as well on controller :indiff: I can see me buying an Xbox X, I can feel it happening just for Forza7 photomode:nervous: ..we shall see :sly: Is there any news on VR support for Forza on Console Xbox X etc?
A decent pc would be a better buy then a xbox, as it wont limit you to basically one game. Thats what i did. I built me a semi beast of a pc for under 500 bucks early this year, cheaper then the xbox scorpio. And i will play much more then forza 7 on it, as i already have.

I too am a fan of the forza series since the 1st one. I still have an original xbox and the 1st forza. But being a sony guy more, i couldnt see buying a console for just one game. And especially now since i have a g29 that works with ps4 and pc, i cant justify buying an xbox scorpio and another wheel for just one game.

Forget the xbone, get a mid grade gaming pc and forza on pc. Will run and look better on pc, be cheaper or at least the same price as an xbone, and wont have to buy another wheel just for xbone.
 
576
mrPetros
A decent pc would be a better buy then a xbox, as it wont limit you to basically one game. Thats what i did. I built me a semi beast of a pc for under 500 bucks early this year, cheaper then the xbox scorpio. And i will play much more then forza 7 on it, as i already have.
........
Forget the xbone, get a mid grade gaming pc and forza on pc. Will run and look better on pc, be cheaper or at least the same price as an xbone, and wont have to buy another wheel just for xbone.
there is no way you built a pc with $500 in start of year and it will run forza 7 and look better than scorpio. like, really no chance at all.
 
4,075
United States
Utah
A decent pc would be a better buy then a xbox, as it wont limit you to basically one game. Thats what i did. I built me a semi beast of a pc for under 500 bucks early this year, cheaper then the xbox scorpio. And i will play much more then forza 7 on it, as i already have.

I too am a fan of the forza series since the 1st one. I still have an original xbox and the 1st forza. But being a sony guy more, i couldnt see buying a console for just one game. And especially now since i have a g29 that works with ps4 and pc, i cant justify buying an xbox scorpio and another wheel for just one game.

Forget the xbone, get a mid grade gaming pc and forza on pc. Will run and look better on pc, be cheaper or at least the same price as an xbone, and wont have to buy another wheel just for xbone.

The minimum you might need to run a Forza title equally or better would be the card I own. That right there is in the vicinity of $400 just for the card. Add another $200 for a decent CPU and you are already above those $500. That's without the rest of the hardware. You want to run Forza Horizon 3 and possibly Forza 7, you would need to spend at least $1,000 to run maxed out. And that's on 1080p if you want to hit 60fps.
 
The minimum you might need to run a Forza title equally or better would be the card I own. That right there is in the vicinity of $400 just for the card. Add another $200 for a decent CPU and you are already above those $500. That's without the rest of the hardware. You want to run Forza Horizon 3 and possibly Forza 7, you would need to spend at least $1,000 to run maxed out. And that's on 1080p if you want to hit 60fps.

My old 2012 i7 3770k with a gtx 670(2GB vram) did work pretty good with forza 6 apex at pretty decent settings. What I have seen so far, and albeit I have not read the min/rec specs for F6 apex the min/rec spec for Forza 7 looks kind of similar to what mine old 2012 i7 system and I use a 1920x1200p monitor so 120pixels extra vertically compared to 1080p.

The thing is the xbox one X is hamstrung by the relatively weak cpu, it is like an down clocked fx cpu paired with at best an 1070/980ti class of gpu. The thing is, at 1080p ie not gpu bottlenecked you would get more fps with a slower gpu but faster cpu. So get an old i7, like a 2600k&3770k and a 980/390x oced 970 and you are there performance wise.

Or If you are living in USA just get a trash fx 8320 cpu with 8gb of ddr3 ram with a cheap mobo I have heard you can find at Microcentre paired with a midtier gpu and you are pretty much have a xbox one X, if you get a 980ti second hand the xbox one x just will not hold a candle to it. But I personally would go with an i7 over any fx bulldozer cpu because of the amd cpu having problems of hitting over 60fps in games with faster gpus, just like Xbox one X :P
 
My old 2012 i7 3770k with a gtx 670(2GB vram) did work pretty good with forza 6 apex at pretty decent settings. What I have seen so far, and albeit I have not read the min/rec specs for F6 apex the min/rec spec for Forza 7 looks kind of similar to what mine old 2012 i7 system and I use a 1920x1200p monitor so 120pixels extra vertically compared to 1080p.

The thing is the xbox one X is hamstrung by the relatively weak cpu, it is like an down clocked fx cpu paired with at best an 1070/980ti class of gpu. The thing is, at 1080p ie not gpu bottlenecked you would get more fps with a slower gpu but faster cpu. So get an old i7, like a 2600k&3770k and a 980/390x oced 970 and you are there performance wise.

Or If you are living in USA just get a trash fx 8320 cpu with 8gb of ddr3 ram with a cheap mobo I have heard you can find at Microcentre paired with a midtier gpu and you are pretty much have a xbox one X, if you get a 980ti second hand the xbox one x just will not hold a candle to it. But I personally would go with an i7 over any fx bulldozer cpu because of the amd cpu having problems of hitting over 60fps in games with faster gpus, just like Xbox one X :P

Xbox One X runs Forza 7 at 3840x2160 native, 60 fps locked, Ultra settings, 24 cars on track, dynamic weather, dynamic lighting and 4K textures.

Your computer wouldn't come close.

Also you can't compared console hardware to PC hardware.

CPU in the Xbox One X has a DX12 physical chip that lowers instructions from thousands to hundreds of thousands to 11 lines at most and only 9 for state changes; this frees up the CPU big time.
 
6,214
England
England
A decent pc would be a better buy then a xbox, as it wont limit you to basically one game. Thats what i did. I built me a semi beast of a pc for under 500 bucks early this year, cheaper then the xbox scorpio. And i will play much more then forza 7 on it, as i already have.

I too am a fan of the forza series since the 1st one. I still have an original xbox and the 1st forza. But being a sony guy more, i couldnt see buying a console for just one game. And especially now since i have a g29 that works with ps4 and pc, i cant justify buying an xbox scorpio and another wheel for just one game.

Forget the xbone, get a mid grade gaming pc and forza on pc. Will run and look better on pc, be cheaper or at least the same price as an xbone, and wont have to buy another wheel just for xbone.

Thanks for all the advice guys ^^^ but I have found in the past PCs need a little more care and attention all the time to get it to run how you like compared to the ease of use of a console, I prefer the plug in and play console convenience under the 4k tv which switches on pretty much instantly and ready to play. I think this convenience outweighs a small gain in graphics for me. Also in the UK there is no way you could build a decent 4k PC for the same cost as a console @£400-£440? then I would have to have it near my 4kTV as my Pc monitor isn't 4k and I would need to upgrade this. I have also spent quite a bit on PS4 Pro/Wheel/PSVR so it is not so easy to back track. I do totally understand your thoughts and this would work for some but not for my circumstances and needs. I guess I could just try Forza7 (maybe there will be a small demo) on my Xbox One on 4k tv and see how it looks as this will cost nothing :sly:. 👍
 
Xbox One X runs Forza 7 at 3840x2160 native, 60 fps locked, Ultra settings, 24 cars on track, dynamic weather, dynamic lighting and 4K textures.

Your computer wouldn't come close.

Also you can't compared console hardware to PC hardware.

CPU in the Xbox One X has a DX12 physical chip that lowers instructions from thousands to hundreds of thousands to 11 lines at most and only 9 for state changes; this frees up the CPU big time.

When you are giving yours opinions on the matter you are talking mostly about gpu related matters. Turn10 is giving you a hint, only 24 cars on track, there is your cpu compromise, limitation. Many cars on track will demand a strong cpu(for a sim that is).

Turn10 has confirmed it for the xbox one x, but for other games it is 30fps that is the target, not even fully fledged 4k but dynamic resolution technology is used for many of the Xbox one X games.

The cpu is the weak part of the scorpio, not even dx12 will change that. 2.3 ghz jaguar(bulldozer tech) compared to a 4+ ghz AMD fx 83xx cpu is really weak, even if it the dedicated dx12 tech would lower the burden on the cpu and close the gap to the 4ghz bulldozer pc cpu it still is too weak for outputting 60fps. Often the fx cpu falls short and can only manage to hit around 50fps when paired with fast gpus, waaaay behind AMDs new Ryzen and Intel cpus, even those from 2011. Jaguar cpu is scorpios' Achilles' heel.

To be honest the dedicated dx12 chip sounds more like PR stunt, adding more stuff like that would probably ad penalties to the overall perf to be honest, but I am not that invested in that part so I dont really know for sure.

High resolution and high gfx settings are what bottlenecks the gpu, but what allows high fps in the first place is the cpu regardless of resolution. If your cpu will let you hit 120fps at low res ie at 1080p you know that with a good gpu you can hit the same fps numbers at 4k.

Not even a 6Tflops gpu is capable of outputting 60fps at ultra settings at true 4k, even if paired with 5ghz intel cpu. Even harder to hit the sweet 60fps if the cpu is a crappy fx cpu at 2.3ghz, with or without dx12.
 
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576
mrPetros
to save a bit of confusion, and maybe avoid stupid conversations entirely, worth clearing up some things:

-PC World tried their best to make a scorpio equivalent pc for $500. they failed miserably. here's their summary on build no2:
Build summary
This upgraded rig nails the Xbox One X’s main features: It should run games in 4K at a minimum of 30 fps on a Medium graphics setting, support HDR, and play 4K UHD optical discs.
However, like the first build in this article, it has its downsides. First of all, if you build this PC at this very moment, you’ll have a rough time finding an RX 580. You’ll end up paying more or purchasing a GTX 1060 (which has less memory) instead.

It’s also much more expensive than the Xbox One X. At $944, you could buy the Xbox One X almost twice over.
*and still missing stuff like wifi and controller for that money.

- PC builders subreddit gave it their own try, their optimistic version was at around $860 iirc


but here's the thing:
for some reason, people become dum and stupid when they have a point they need to prove.
example in point: Digital Foundry, a far more specialized group in exactly these things, at start of this generation went and build their xbox one equivalent pc, after their careful "analysis", and they were adamant that that was it, it had performance equal to xbone.
They touted that for a couple of years, then games came out on the xbox that their xbone-equivalent pc machine couldnt handle.
oops! they were wrong too. it just took them time to notice, and missinform people on the way about console ceiling.

so, bottom line is, if we have something in our minds that we want to prove true no matter what, I bet we are going to say and do stupid things on the way of accomplishing our goal. but does it make us more intelligent?

scorpio equivalent gaming power, in equivalent money? pipe dream right now.
 
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