Forza Motorsport 7 E3 2017 Breakout Session: Putting Players in Control

[Pillo-san]

It is not a pipe dream at all if you are after pure gaming prowess.
500bucks x1.25 because of vat excl customs=624 US bucks which I convert to sek by x10=6240kr

For about 1000sek(swedish kr)(about 100us dollars) more than a Xbox scorpio you will get a new Ryzen r5 1400 with 8gb ram and a rx580 with 8gb ram. No OS but that can be bought for cheap online or simply use linux.

https://www.inet.se/kundvagn/visa/10470165/

If you would build a pc with the old am3 fx bulldozer cpu you would probably be able to get a gtx 1070 becasue the entire platform would cost about as the r5 cpu.

Or the best way is simply go with a second hand pc for cheap and get if needed a new gpu.

Here for an example you have complete sys, a i5, 16gbram, gtx960 for 2500sek(~250$/250€) and if necessarily just ad a gpu like a 980ti or 1070 either a new or a used one... and the machine would be cpu wise stronger then Scorpio but about the same gpu wise.
http://www.sweclockers.com/marknad/...460-16-gb-ram-geforce-gtx-960-samsung-850-evo

So a pipe dream it is not, not for us that dont live in US as we need to pay vat and stuff.

 

[moparmanmike]

My old 2012 i7 3770k with a gtx 670(2GB vram) did work pretty good with forza 6 apex at pretty decent settings. What I have seen so far, and albeit I have not read the min/rec specs for F6 apex the min/rec spec for Forza 7 looks kind of similar to what mine old 2012 i7 system and I use a 1920x1200p monitor so 120pixels extra vertically compared to 1080p.

The thing is the xbox one X is hamstrung by the relatively weak cpu, it is like an down clocked fx cpu paired with at best an 1070/980ti class of gpu. The thing is, at 1080p ie not gpu bottlenecked you would get more fps with a slower gpu but faster cpu. So get an old i7, like a 2600k&3770k and a 980/390x oced 970 and you are there performance wise.

Or If you are living in USA just get a trash fx 8320 cpu with 8gb of ddr3 ram with a cheap mobo I have heard you can find at Microcentre paired with a midtier gpu and you are pretty much have a xbox one X, if you get a 980ti second hand the xbox one x just will not hold a candle to it. But I personally would go with an i7 over any fx bulldozer cpu because of the amd cpu having problems of hitting over 60fps in games with faster gpus, just like Xbox one X

Huh. Seems my "trash" amd fx 8320 with 8gb of corsair vengence ram and a gtx 1050ti x gaming gpu with 4gb ddr5 can run forza 6 on ultra at a steady 60fps at 1080p on my 42inch lg. Weird.

 

[mrPetros]

I'm not Swedish, but I think your math is wrong there...
scorpio is going to be 500euro in Europe. www.xe.com says this is ~4,877 Kronas

I also checked prices for current xbox to be sure, and I see xbox S +horizon 3 bundles at 2490 Kronas, ~$255, so prices seem right.

so, from ~4,877 Kronas you made the jump to 7,200 Kronas, which again according to xe.com, that around $825

still a great difference in money (>60% more) especially keeping in mind the fuss that some make for 399-499 price difference. dont you think?

plus the console player may as well get a scoprio AND a ps4 or a switch for this money. much more preferable to him I think. right?


And lets not go into used markets etc at all, otherwise wait 6 months and get a used scorpio for $350 total cost (beat that for used), and I bet you all your Kronas that it will last many years more that your anything used pc.

 

[moparmanmike]

there is no way you built a pc with $500 in start of year and it will run forza 7 and look better than scorpio. like, really no chance at all.

My specs
Amd fx 8320 cpu
8gb of corsair vengence ram
Msi 970 gaming mobo
Msi geforce gtx 1050ti x gaming ed 4gb ddr5 ram
550w power supply
Rosewell wifi card
Cooler master case
500gb hd outta the ps4 (sittin around after the 2tb seagate barracuda swap)
128GB SSD salvaged outta my ps3

Only thing ive thrown at it that i havent been able to run on high/ultra at steady 60fps is the forza horizon demo, which i heard is poorly optimized in the 1st place.

Games i have ran on high-ultra (some mixed settings between high and ultra) at 1080p with a MINUMUM of a steady 60fps

Payday 2
Battlefield 3/4/hardline/1
Beamng
Assetto Corsa
Crysis 3
Forza 6 Apex
Dirt Showdown
Need For Speed 2016
Dirt Rally
Brutal Legend

These are games i know for a fact cause i own them. Forza horizon ranged from 45 to 70fps. But not a solid steady min of 60.

Also turn 10 has also said that forza 7 will be optimized for low to mid pcs to run it. That being said, i see no reason why i wont get 1080p on at least high if not ultra at a solid 60+fps.

I never tried running 4k, as i dont have a 4k tv, so i cant speak to how these would handle at 4k. I should also note my build cost me around 460 bucks.

 

[Pillo-san]

I'm not Swedish, but I think your math is wrong there...
scorpio is going to be 500euro in Europe. www.xe.com says this is ~4,877 Kronas

I also checked prices for current xbox to be sure, and I see xbox S +horizon 3 bundles at 2490 Kronas, ~$255, so prices seem right.

so, from ~4,877 Kronas you made the jump to 7,200 Kronas, which again according to xe.com, that around $825

still a great difference in money (>60% more) especially keeping in mind the fuss that some make for 399-499 price difference. dont you think?


And lets not go into used markets etc, otherwise wait 6 months and get a used scorpio for $350, and I bet you that it will last many years more thatn your anything used pc.

I tired to find any info about how much it would cost here, only found the 499dollar price that i convert with x10. 1 dollar is right now at 8.72 sek but prices do not adjust that fast, just recently 1$=10sek. even when stuff go below the the magic x10 conversion we still pay like it was x10.

If the scorpio will be 500€ it will probably be like 5300-5500kr but as I could not find any confirmation about our prices I do conversion with x10 and then x1.25 with the vat exl customs. lets hope it will be closer to 5000-5500kr at least but dont count on it.

I stand by that you will find more perf with buying a second hand pc and if necessarily upgrade with a newer gpu.

 

[mrPetros]

Also turn 10 has also said that forza 7 will be optimized for low to mid pcs to run it. That being said, i see no reason why i wont get 1080p on at least high if not ultra at a solid 60+fps.

I never tried running 4k, as i dont have a 4k tv, so i cant speak to how these would handle at 4k. I should also note my build cost me around 460 bucks.

dude!!
lets say you run forza7 on scorpio, on your 1080p panel
you know that will give you full supersampling from 4k at a locked 60? thats like bullshoty 1080p quality

you are talking about a machine that can run forza7 in 1080p, not in 4k. but even xbone can do that.

 

[moparmanmike]

The minimum you might need to run a Forza title equally or better would be the card I own. That right there is in the vicinity of $400 just for the card. Add another $200 for a decent CPU and you are already above those $500. That's without the rest of the hardware. You want to run Forza Horizon 3 and possibly Forza 7, you would need to spend at least $1,000 to run maxed out. And that's on 1080p if you want to hit 60fps.

I currently run forza 6 apex maxed at a solid 60fps 1080 on my amd fx 8320 and gtx 1050ti x gaming gpu with 4gb gdddr5 ram. I dont have a 4k monitor, so i cant even select that as an option, and if i could it would be pointless anyway.

 

[mrPetros]

I dont have a 4k monitor, so i cant even select that as an option, and if i could it would be pointless anyway.

the lack of 4k display is not the reason your computer cant render at 4k, and I guess you didnt understand what I wrote about supersampling too.
anyway, there are quality increases in scorpio vs your pc, even in your 1080p panel is the thing to understand.

I stand by that you will find more perf with buying a second hand pc and if necessarily upgrade with a newer gpu.

ok, but that's just a smart way a economical pc shopper goes, not a valid path for mass consumers.
And still not a match for a used scorpio 6 months down the line for value for money, reliability and longevity.
plus thats a special can of worms you are opening there, definitely not for the mainstream console guys, who like their S I M P L I C I T Y and absolutely minimum maintenance time. how much do these worth to them you think? how much it worth to me?

 

[moparmanmike]

dude!!
lets say you run forza7 on scorpio, on your 1080p panel
you know that will give you full supersampling from 4k at a locked 60? thats like bullshoty 1080p quality

you are talking about a machine that can run forza7 in 1080p, not in 4k. but even xbone can do that.

Your right. I cant speak of how my build will run forza 6 in 4k as i have no way to personally verify running it in 4k. But whats saying he even has a 4k tv in the 1st place? And that my build CANT run it in 4k?

Not to mention, i can play WAY more games then forza 7. Hes talkin about buying an xbone just for forza. And my opinon was that would make no sense, if all you want to play on it is forza. Which it dont when you consider other options, which is what he was asking about.

And if he has a wheel for ps4, it will make even less sense. Cause no one will want to go from a wheel to controller. So theres another 500 or more for a decent wheel just fkr xbox, just for one game. $1000 to play forza, plus cost of the game and xbox live compared to half that for a decent pc. Or spend all that for a killer pc, and play much more then forza.

 

[moparmanmike]

the lack of 4k display is not the reason your computer cant render at 4k, and I guess you didnt understand what I wrote about supersampling too.
anyway, there are quality increases in scorpio vs your pc, even in your 1080p panel is the thing to understand.


still not a match for a used scorpio 6 months down the line for value for money, reliability and longevity.
plus thats a special can of worms you are opening there, definitely not for the mainstream console guys, who like their S I M P L I C I T Y and absolutely minimum maintenance time. how much do these worth to them you think? how much it worth to me?

I never said my pc cant render 4k. I said i never bothered cause it would be pointless considering i have a 1080 tv. Why would i even bother trying if im not gonna see any difference in the 1st place???

 

[Pillo-san]

Huh. Seems my "trash" amd fx 8320 with 8gb of corsair vengence ram and a gtx 1050ti x gaming gpu with 4gb ddr5 can run forza 6 on ultra at a steady 60fps at 1080p on my 42inch lg. Weird.

A fx will hit 60 in Apex just fine, but the gpu at ultra, I dont know. My old and modded 670 could not do it at ultra, I had to play at medium/high and it is about in the same perf bracket. You know forza apex has an dynamic resolution function, so if the fps are about to go down it will alter the res to uphold your fps.


When I talked about the fx cpu having trouble even hitting 60fps I talked about how it performs in some AAA titles, not all games are cpu pigs but knowing that your cpu is bottlenecking your gpu and even sometimes preventing you hit 60fps is not so flattering.

http://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/12969?key=60aa34429f5b4d4bdd503732730a56fc

http://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/12959?key=b4ff0e63ae056dc05ffd1d2859e089c0



two games I remembered the fx had real problems with, Imagine a 2.3ghz jaguar must struggle even more, the embedded images did not work so you have to click the links.

ok, but that's just a smart way a economical pc shopper goes, not a valid path for mass consumers.
And still not a match for a used scorpio 6 months down the line for value for money, reliability and longevity.
plus thats a special can of worms you are opening there, definitely not for the mainstream console guys, who like their S I M P L I C I T Y and absolutely minimum maintenance time. how much do these worth to them you think? how much it worth to me?

Well yes you are right, hustling and stuff like this is not for everybody but for those that want to bother with these things, getting a machine for cheap with much perf is what matter.

 

[mrPetros]

Well yes you are right, hustling and stuff like this is not for everybody but for those that want to bother with these things, getting a machine for cheap with much perf is what matter.

even for this very small subset of people (I used to be a part of long time ago) , still a used capable pc with ex. a new 1070 is way more than $500

I think we can all agree that microsoft bringing their forza games to PC is a godsend, maybe the best news for pc car people in many years.
I, for one, was asking for this for many years.

but, trying to say that their console is no value, thats plain ********!

 

[moparmanmike]

even for this very small subset of people (I used to be a part of long time ago) , still a used capable pc with ex. a new 1070 is way more than $500

I think we can all agree that microsoft bringing their forza games to PC is a godsend, maybe the best news for pc car people in many years.
I, for one, was asking for this for many years.

but, trying to say that their console is no value, thats plain ********!

Again, if your only gettin an xbox for forza, then its a waste of money. Money better spent on a pc for the same game. Why spend 1000+ with console, wheel and xbox live to play just one game? That logic is baffling

 

[mrPetros]

Again, if your only gettin an xbox for forza, then its a waste of money. Money better spent on a pc for the same game. Why spend 1000+ with console, wheel and xbox live to play just one game? That logic is baffling

are you seriously saying again and again that if you buy a scorpio, forza7 is the ONLY game you will play on it?
I am trying to discuss seriously here. should I not?

 

[moparmanmike]

A fx will hit 60 in Apex just fine, but the gpu at ultra, I dont know. My old and modded 670 could not do it at ultra, I had to play at medium/high and it is about the same perf bracket. You know forza apex has an dynamic resolution function, so if the fps are about to go down in will alter the res for you to uphold your fps.


When I talked about the fx cpu having trouble even hitting 60fps I talked about how it performs in some AAA titles, not all games are cpu pigs but knowing that your cpu is bottlenecking your gpu and even sometimes preventing you hit 60fps is not so flattering.

http://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/12969?key=60aa34429f5b4d4bdd503732730a56fc

http://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/12959?key=b4ff0e63ae056dc05ffd1d2859e089c0



two games I remembered the fx had real problems with, Imagine a 2.3ghz jaguar must struggle even more, the embedded images did not work so you have to click the links.






Well yes you are right, hustling and stuff like this is not for everybody but for those that want to bother with these things, getting a machine for cheap with much perf is what matter.

Couldnt see the images. But so far, everything ive thrown at it its handled no sweat. My cpu is also clocked at 3.5ghz and is easily OCed to 4.0 with one click thanks to MSIs bios. However i did not like the temps i was getting while OCed, so until i replace the stock cpu cooler with a better one, i wont be overclocking my cpu or gpu.

 

[moparmanmike]

are you seriously saying again and again that if you buy a scorpio, forza7 is the ONLY game you will play on it?
I am trying to discuss seriously here. should I not?

Because that was OPs question. Or do you not remember that? Hes considering getting an xbox just for forza. In which my original response was that would make no sense. And honestly any multi plat game is gonna run just as good or better on ps4 or pc.

Sooooo...if he has a ps4 already, and isnt interested in any xbone exclusives other then forza, which i gather since he said he was looking at an xbone just for forza....then no. In my opinon it would not make sense to get one, when you can build a pc for the same price and have a much more versitle machiene, not only for gaming, but you know, pc stuff.

 

[Pillo-san]

even for this very small subset of people (I used to be a part of long time ago) , still a used capable pc with ex. a new 1070 is way more than $500

I think we can all agree that microsoft bringing their forza games to PC is a godsend, maybe the best news for pc car people in many years.
I, for one, was asking for this for many years.

but, trying to say that their console is no value, thats plain ********!

Yes I totally agree, Forza on PC is superb.

A gtx 1070 is about 400-430€ here. So if you have an older i5 or i7 from 2011 and forward you are in luck. If not you can buy an old i5/i7 cpu/mobo/ram combo for 150 and upgrade your old stuff. Even if the xbox one x is priced quite good to be fair, even with the crappy jaguar cpu I just cant let MS win.. PC must win both perf and pricewise, which is really hard

And about getting a console for one game, well I have done it for gt4 and for gt6 and for forza 2-3-4 Your favourite game is on an exclusive for a platform, well you gotta do what you gotta do just to play that freaking game

Just look at all those Nintendo fanbois

 

[moparmanmike]

Yes I totally agree, Forza on PC is superb.

A gtx 1070 is about 400-430€ here. So if you have an older i5 or i7 from 2011 and forward you are in luck. If not you can buy an old i5/i7 cpu/mobo/ram combo for 150 and upgrade your old stuff. Even if the xbox one x is priced quite good to be fair, even with the crappy jaguar cpu I just cant let MS win.. PC must win both perf and pricewise, which is really hard

And about getting a console for one game, well I have done it for gt4 and for gt6 and for forza 2-3-4 Your favourite game is on an exclusive for a platform, well you gotta do what you gotta do just to play that freaking game

Just look at all those Nintendo fanbois

Sure when you have no other options lol. Trusg me i was ecstatic when i heard forza was coming to pc. It really is a great series. But given the option i would take it on pc then go and drop all that on just one game. Especially since ive been spoiled on the wheel. Could never go back to a controller! Lol

 

[mrPetros]

to put this in bed, here is digital foundry comparing scorpio forza demo to apex full detail everything.
they say it took them a titan X to get there with pc.



hopefully we dont do many conversations about low and mid spec pc's being equal. it would be such a stupid drag.

 

[FordGTGuy]

No operating system, a RX 580 isn't going to match the performance of a Xbox One X, no disc drive, no CPU cooler, no thermal paste, you need to double the RAM and make it faster.

This is a closer computer when it comes to performance and features:

Xbox One X has:

* UHD Bluray disk drive.

* Dedicated sound card capable of Dobly Atmos(equivalent not even available on PC).

* Wi-Fi card with newest and highest standards.

* Comes with controller that is sold at $60 retail.

* Comes with OS pre-installed(version of Windows 10 core)

* Vapor water cooling that will likely be pretty quiet, meaning an equivalent needs made on a PC build.

* 12 GB of GDDR5 running at 326 GB/s memory bandwidth(faster than any desktop DDR4 RAM or the memory bandwidth in a GTX 1070 which is 256 GB/s.)

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TVffZ8

The computer I built is still much bigger and has to be assembled unlike a Xbox One X; it also doesn't come with a warranty as a single unit.

The case I found about is one of the smallest I could find that would fit a disc drive and a GTX 1070.

2062~ inches cubed in volume compared to 255 inches cubed in volume for the Xbox One X.

 

[Dave A]

I'm just glad I have a laptop with an i7 6700k currently clocked at 4.4ghz and a GTX 1080. The laptop screen is 1080p, I think 4k is pointless on a 17" screen, but I can easilly render games at 4k streaming them to my TV via my NVidia Shield.

Needless to say, I'm buying Forza 7 for the laptop, I don't own a Scorpio or intend to, not that I dislike it, but I find I play fewer games on the console these days.

Just saying .

 

[FordGTGuy]

I'm just glad I have a laptop with an i7 6700k currently clocked at 4.4ghz and a GTX 1080. The laptop screen is 1080p, I think 4k is pointless on a 17" screen, but I can easilly render games at 4k streaming them to my TV via my NVidia Shield.

Needless to say, I'm buying Forza 7 for the laptop, I don't own a Scorpio or intend to, not that I dislike it, but I find I play fewer games on the console these days.

Just saying .

The problem PC guys are finding themselves in with this discussion is they make it about Xbox vs PC; Microsoft isn't trying to replace the high-end PC, they are giving people an option to get 4K High-Ultra gaming for relatively cheap in their living room.

People can argue till their blue in their face about building a gaming PC that could beat it, the truth is that right now it just isn't possible to build a PC with the same features and performance for even half the price. Even then the Xbox One X is a pre-built machine and good luck finding a pre-built PC with the same features, performance and form factor for under $1500.

I personally own a gaming PC and I want to rebuild it later this year with new parts but I'm also going to buy an Xbox One X, the value proposition to me is pretty amazing.

 

[Dave A]

The problem PC guys are finding themselves in with this discussion is they make it about Xbox vs PC; Microsoft isn't trying to replace the high-end PC, they are giving people an option to get 4K High-Ultra gaming for relatively cheap in their living room.

People can argue till their blue in their face about building a gaming PC that could beat it, the truth is that right now it just isn't possible to build a PC with the same features and performance for even half the price. Even then the Xbox One X is a pre-built machine and good luck finding a pre-built PC with the same features, performance and form factor for under $1500.

I personally own a gaming PC and I want to rebuild it later this year with new parts but I'm also going to buy an Xbox One X, the value proposition to me is pretty amazing.

I absolutely agree, my laptop cost many times the price of an XB1X and is a bit overkill for a lot of games currently out. If it was solely about performance for price though the XB1X wins hands down, but the laptop suits me far more for lifestyle. I'm in no way pro gaming rig and anti-XB1X or vice versa, but when it comes solely down to money the XB1X is going to win every time, at least for now anyway.

 

[Pillo-san]

No operating system, a RX 580 isn't going to match the performance of a Xbox One X, no disc drive, no CPU cooler, no thermal paste, you need to double the RAM and make it faster.

This is a closer computer when it comes to performance and features:

Xbox One X has:

* UHD Bluray disk drive.

* Dedicated sound card capable of Dobly Atmos(equivalent not even available on PC).

* Wi-Fi card with newest and highest standards.

* Comes with controller that is sold at $60 retail.

* Comes with OS pre-installed(version of Windows 10 core)

* Vapor water cooling that will likely be pretty quiet, meaning an equivalent needs made on a PC build.

* 12 GB of GDDR5 running at 326 GB/s memory bandwidth(faster than any desktop DDR4 RAM or the memory bandwidth in a GTX 1070 which is 256 GB/s.)

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TVffZ8

The computer I built is still much bigger and has to be assembled unlike a Xbox One X; it also doesn't come with a warranty as a single unit.

The case I found about is one of the smallest I could find that would fit a disc drive and a GTX 1070.

2062~ inches cubed in volume compared to 255 inches cubed in volume for the Xbox One X.

If you read what I wrote in my post and not only looked at the parts you would know I aimed the pc as an example for getting more performance prowess(60fps min but often more) and willingly did not care about little things like form factor or being able to use bluray 4k discs that probably noone today will use anymore, just raw perf.

U don need cooler or thermal paste that is on the cooler that comes with the cpu, why do you choose expensive and fast parts like fast mem, watercooling and stuff when all you need to do is build the cheapest possible pc with about the same computation capacity as the scorpio, that is the important thing in my examples.

Yes, scorpio has a lot of features, but they need to offer it as the cpu/base platform itself is from stone age. You get a lot of freebies/goodies because they did not use the cutting age tech to make xbox one x. It has 12GB or gddr that is shared with the cpu and the gpu and the cpu is 2.3ghz jaguar ie a downclocked fx cpu that will hamper any hopes of reaching high fps, the xbox is stuck at 60 at best(will be 30 in most games anyway) but a pc with a rx480/580 will be capable of performing higher fps at 1080p when the gpu is not crying for mercy. For a cpu gddr is not good as a cpu need low latencies, a gpu prefers and needs high bandwidth.

A vapour chamber is nothing new or exotic, it is basically a heatpipe. Gpus have this just to save space, and is old tech since gtx480 or even older. For really effective cooling water is the preferable choice but outperforming the xbox one x cpu you dont need much in term of cpu power, a i5/i7 from 2011 is more than enough, even an fx cpu at 4ghz will be better with stock coolers that are included.

lets be honest here, it is relativity good price for what you get but and we will probably see games in the future that are more gpu demanding than cpu demanding just because of the imbalance of cpu/gpu in both ps4 neo and xbox one x with its stone age cpu and midtier gpu.

But we can say this then, I bought a cheap laptop for my mother, a i5, 8gb of ram, 256gb ssd, wifi and all those goodies you care about, it has even an quite good 15" 1080p screen and it is even slim and not that plasticy at all. And it even has a battry all that for 500€ they even had an i3(same cpu but lower clocks/less cache) with 4gb of ram an 1tb hdd for 400€. U could say that if somebody really wanted they could just use the innards of a cheap laptop, pair it with an 6tflop gpu if they strike a good deal and put all that in a slim box and there you have it. A console that is worthy of true 60fps gaming Because it is hard for us enduser/customers to hit that low price point(new stuff) does not meat that Oems have the same issue as us, look around and you will get surprised how cheap stuff really are.

 

[FordGTGuy]

U don need cooler or thermal paste that is on the cooler that comes with the cpu, why do you choose expensive and fast parts like fast mem, watercooling and stuff when all you need to do is build the cheapest possible pc with about the same computation capacity as the scorpio, that is the important thing in my examples.

You don't need thermal paste and a CPU cooler? Wait what?

I hope you don't build PCs, you should never use the stock thermal paste and CPU cooler on these chips.

A vapour chamber is nothing new or exotic, it is basically a heatpipe.

A vapor chamber is not like a heatpipe, it's a literal chamber with water in it that evaporates and carries heat to the top, while it cools it rains back down to the bottom of the chamber. It's closer to a water cooler on a PC than it is to heat pipe.

just use the innards of a cheap laptop, pair it with an 6tflop gpu

A 6 TF PC GPU =/= the 6 TF in an Xbox One X.

but a pc with a rx480/580 will be capable of performing higher fps at 1080p when the gpu is not crying for mercy.

Evidence? Digital Foundry don't agree.

 

[PJTierney]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/the-first-forza-being-built-from-the-ground-up-for-pc.356628/

There's a PC thread, maybe this talk should go over there.

 

[Pillo-san]

You don't need thermal paste and a CPU cooler? Wait what?

I hope you don't build PCs, you should never use the stock thermal paste and CPU cooler on these chips.



A vapor chamber is not like a heatpipe, it's a literal chamber with water in it that evaporates and carries heat to the top, while it cools it rains back down to the bottom of the chamber. It's closer to a water cooler on a PC than it is to heat pipe.



A 6 TF PC GPU =/= the 6 TF in an Xbox One X.




Evidence? Digital Foundry don't agree.

I started to build my own sys in 95-96 in 5ths or 6th grade after opening up my pc that I bought from a local pc store and noticed they did not use parts I noticed that they used parts that I did not wanted. since then I have build like my and my families systems. If you dont oc a stock cooler with the preapplied tim on the cooler is sufficient. Why should a person that dont care about noise or temp buy an after market cooler when they can save the money for other parts that indeed would offer more perf or.

That is exactly how a heatpipe works

evidence? well that is how ti works. A fast cpu will feed the gpu with data. high fps=high cpu load. The cpu need to match the gpu and the burden on the cpu will increase if you are using a gpu that can hit high fps. When using the same gpu at let say 4k, the fps goes down because it is very taxing on the gpu because it needs to process so much more pixels than at low resolution which results in the gpu taking longer to demand data from the cpu.

It is because of the weak cpu in Xbox on X that MS is hard at promoting the 4k and even talking down on 60fps gaming as they must do this because they know that the old jaguar(bulldozer) architecture is not strong enough to feed/keep with a fast gpu.

The obvious example for this is for example i7 7700k paired with a gtx 1080ti compared against Ryzen r7 also with a gtx 1080ti at a resolution(1080p)) where the gpu is not bottleneck to its knees. You can even find examples where faster cpu paired with slower gpu will provide better fps. Here is a clear example:

But if you are a simracer you would know by now that a racesim demands a bit more of umph cpu wise especial if there are many cars on track.

If we go by you stand point I would get the same fps in Assetto Corsa with my q6600+gtx970 as with my i7 6700+gtx970 with same settings. But the reality is showing otherwise. I get like on avg 45 fps with the q6600 system but with the 6700 I get 120fps. If we go a step further, I get same amount fps with a gtx 470 with the q6600 but with the 670the gtx 470 will show min 45 but on average 55-70fps.

@PJTierney mm sure, I just wanted to explain how things are if you would compare a pc vs xbox one X hardware wise for those that maybe are not up to date, ie not a straigtforward pc thread/post.

 

[FordGTGuy]

A fast cpu will feed the gpu with data. high fps=high cpu load.

Xbox One X has a command processor with DX12 built-in which makes instructions go from thousands to hundreds of thousands of lines to 11 max and 9 for a state change.

That is why you can't directly compare PC hardware to console hardware.

I started to build my own sys in 95-96 in 5ths or 6th grade after opening up my pc that I bought from a local pc store and noticed they did not use parts I noticed that they used parts that I did not wanted. since then I have build like my and my families systems. If you dont oc a stock cooler with the preapplied tim on the cooler is sufficient. Why should a person that dont care about noise or temp buy an after market cooler when they can save the money for other parts that indeed would offer more perf or.

A good CPU cooler and thermal paste is extremely cheap and makes the hardware last longer; even if you're not OC(less heat = less wear over time.).

That is exactly how a heatpipe works

Heat pipes work in a similar way but their designs are pretty different.

I'm pretty sure you would agree that saying they are exactly the same is a bit disingenuous.

 

[mrPetros]

dude fordgt!!! why continuing on this STUPID subject?
let it go

 

[FordGTGuy]

dude fordgt!!! why continuing on this STUPID subject?
let it go

I am, that was my last post on the matter.