Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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I hope the shuffled championships return(FM4?). I liked going through the tiers(economy cars to race cars) and then restarting a new Championship. Each time, slightly different than the last.
I fully agree! It was Forza Motorsport 4 indeed. The career mode was called 'World Tour' with a world map and the circuits of that championship, and then zooming in to the relevant track. It gave you a sense of location and progress which was really nice :)

The only thing with Forza Motorsport 4 was that the world back then was solely the norther hemisphere. With next year's Forza Motorsport and the inclusion of Kyalami we should have tracks on every main continent if Mount Panorama and Rio return (although I'm hoping for Interlagos).

There might be some more news in tomorrow's Forza Monthly, but I guess they will stick to what was presented on Sunday and focus a bit more on the driving dynamics and the content as already shown. I mean, they have up to one year before launch and it would be foolish to show most of the content at this early stage.
 
As for things I'd like to see them change/add? The Homologation system from FM7 needs to be ditched, it didn't serve the purpose it should have, it should have acted like a balance of performance system like GT, but all it did was force slow cars to the top of whatever class (touring cars for example, it just made the BTCC cars go to the top of S to compete with the MR Swedish touring cars and it ruined how they drove).
T10 made some baffling MP decisions. The Homologation systems needs to be redone.
 
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The bottom of the bumper at the rear seems too high, but I think some extra clarification would be useful.
The rear end of the car is shaped wrong. There's not something specific I can really point to other than that the Forza model tapers to a narrower end than the real car...the result is that the back of the Forza model looks too small and pinched. Without XBL gold I don't seem to be able to transfer photomode pictures to something/somewhere I can access from my computer, unless somebody can point me to a method? I wanted to take some comparison shots of the S2K and Countach to explain what I'm seeing.
 
Does anybody remember T10 saying that they had a way of making tracks a lot faster?
Yes it was at one of the tech awards where they showed the Dubai track. They talked about how photogrammetry made it easier for them to build the tracks faster because they got all the 3d data and just had to texture layer them instead of building all of it one by one. Thats also what they said in this video, thats how they recreated all those tiny details at this level.

Edit. Found it, at 15:20
 
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Yes it was at one of the tech awards where they showed the Dubai track. They talked about how photogrammetry made it easier for them to build the tracks faster because they got all the 3d data and just had to texture layer them instead of building all of it one by one. Thats also what they said in this video, thats how they recreated all those tiny details at this level.
In the latest video they mentioned photogrammetry specifically with regards to maple valley. I thought that was interesting considering Maple Valley isn't a real place...Did they use it to capture individual trees I wonder?
 
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In the latest video they mentioned photogrammetry specifically with regards to maple valley. I thought that was interesting considering Maple Valley isn't a real place...Did they use it to capture individual trees I wonder?
Probably for trees, rocks, asphalt, lake, barns and some other buildings i think.
 
You guys need to take into account that they make models based on collected references.

If their references reflect those issues than even a rebuilt model will have these issues; that doesn't mean it's the same model as the previous game. Instead of saying "They are using a Xbox 360 model", it is more accurate to say they are using the same poor references as the Xbox 360 model.

Also, you need to remember that exotic handmade cars can have slight differences from car to car.

Additionally, some cars change slightly depending on year model or region they are released in.

Lastly, some of these models are outsourced to other studios that also fall prey to reusing the same references. I know people are going to criticize outsourcing but it's an extremely common thing in game development; building a single car as a LOT of work.

Some of forza models is bad, take look at Ferrari f50 its much better detailed in gts and gt7, very noticeable even during gameplay

A model being less detailed than another model does not make it bad.

A model being so different from the source material that it is jarring makes it bad. That is if you're even properly comparing the correct source material.

T10 made some baffling MP decisions. The Homologation systems needs to be redone.
I understand the issues with the homologation system but I actually like it.

I'm honestly tired of class races where a person builds a car with almost nothing but horsepower/torque modifications; they then use assists to get around the cars instability due to it being nothing but a power build.

Like if you were in a Ferrari 458 in S class and get destroyed by a 1100 hp Civic with nothing but engine modifications.

Homologation helps prevent this kind of car build; I do think the system should be a bit more loose in requirements.


Yes it was at one of the tech awards where they showed the Dubai track. They talked about how photogrammetry made it easier for them to build the tracks faster because they got all the 3d data and just had to texture layer them instead of building all of it one by one. Thats also what they said in this video, thats how they recreated all those tiny details at this level.

Edit. Found it, at 15:20

This is kind of a trap though, just because you can make certain parts of developing a track easier and faster doesn't mean that they are done faster. It could just mean that it allows them to spend even more time adding details or working on other parts of the track with the more time they've gained.

In the latest video they mentioned photogrammetry specifically with regards to maple valley. I thought that was interesting considering Maple Valley isn't a real place...Did they use it to capture individual trees I wonder?
That is the fun part of this technology, it can practically be used for any texture in the game. Rocks, bark, leaves, asphalt, rubber, paint, steel, dirt, and more. They can catalog these textures created and put them in a database to be used manually or by procedural generation systems.

If I were to guess, the trees for the most part are randomized using procedural generation where the system pulls for database to build the trees. The trees that are closer to the track likely have more manual touches by the developers.

Procedural generation is pretty common in game development nowadays; who wants to waste thousands of hours manually building different trees? Algorithms create a more natural look.
 
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I mean Dubai is a fictional track either. There are references to existing places in and around Dubai but nothing is real.
 
The rear end of the car is shaped wrong. There's not something specific I can really point to other than that the Forza model tapers to a narrower end than the real car...the result is that the back of the Forza model looks too small and pinched. Without XBL gold I don't seem to be able to transfer photomode pictures to something/somewhere I can access from my computer, unless somebody can point me to a method? I wanted to take some comparison shots of the S2K and Countach to explain what I'm seeing.
I caught what you were talking about. I've noticed it as well; Forza's rendition doesn't feel as streamlined as the real car does. It makes the center of the car bulbous as you note about the rear.

It was so long ago, likely during the era of the first Horizon or 2, but I distinctively remember the car being brought up on FChat when discussing the game & keen-eye people there immediately noticed the proportions were slightly skewed. Same issue you highlighted with the R32. The cars are for the most part, at least mostly faithfully recreated, but it wouldn't hurt T10 to go back out and hire another example to photograph & model just to correct small inaccuracies.
 
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Yes it was at one of the tech awards where they showed the Dubai track. They talked about how photogrammetry made it easier for them to build the tracks faster because they got all the 3d data and just had to texture layer them instead of building all of it one by one. Thats also what they said in this video, thats how they recreated all those tiny details at this level.

Edit. Found it, at 15:20

I thought it was something new.... Oh well...
 
Yes it was at one of the tech awards where they showed the Dubai track. They talked about how photogrammetry made it easier for them to build the tracks faster because they got all the 3d data and just had to texture layer them instead of building all of it one by one. Thats also what they said in this video, thats how they recreated all those tiny details at this level.

Edit. Found it, at 15:20

Polyphony Digital must buy this technology too 😃
 
This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Forza Motorsport: Everything We Know So Far

It’s been a long time in the making, but it’s official: Forza Motorsport has a targeted release window of Spring 2023. After years of anticipation, Turn 10 gave us our first look at the game in action on the Xbox Series consoles for the first time...
Looks amazing graphically, but the most important thing for me is how it plays with a steering wheel. If it feels as good as assetto corsa, rf2, or automobilista 2 on pc I will be impressed and so happy 😊
 
You guys need to take into account that they make models based on collected references.

If their references reflect those issues than even a rebuilt model will have these issues; that doesn't mean it's the same model as the previous game. Instead of saying "They are using a Xbox 360 model", it is more accurate to say they are using the same poor references as the Xbox 360 model.

Also, you need to remember that exotic handmade cars can have slight differences from car to car.

Additionally, some cars change slightly depending on year model or region they are released in.

Lastly, some of these models are outsourced to other studios that also fall prey to reusing the same references. I know people are going to criticize outsourcing but it's an extremely common thing in game development; building a single car as a LOT of work.



A model being less detailed than another model does not make it bad.

A model being so different from the source material that it is jarring makes it bad. That is if you're even properly comparing the correct source material.


I understand the issues with the homologation system but I actually like it.

I'm honestly tired of class races where a person builds a car with almost nothing but horsepower/torque modifications; they then use assists to get around the cars instability due to it being nothing but a power build.

Like if you were in a Ferrari 458 in S class and get destroyed by a 1100 hp Civic with nothing but engine modifications.

Homologation helps prevent this kind of car build; I do think the system should be a bit more loose in requirements.



This is kind of a trap though, just because you can make certain parts of developing a track easier and faster doesn't mean that they are done faster. It could just mean that it allows them to spend even more time adding details or working on other parts of the track with the more time they've gained.


That is the fun part of this technology, it can practically be used for any texture in the game. Rocks, bark, leaves, asphalt, rubber, paint, steel, dirt, and more. They can catalog these textures created and put them in a database to be used manually or by procedural generation systems.

If I were to guess, the trees for the most part are randomized using procedural generation where the system pulls for database to build the trees. The trees that are closer to the track likely have more manual touches by the developers.

Procedural generation is pretty common in game development nowadays; who wants to waste thousands of hours manually building different trees? Algorithms create a more natural look.
People are treating as if forza car models are like gran turismo's standard cars lol

They look fine as hell.
 
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Another reason why I'm super happy that we'll finally be able to select our own time of day and weather. Although some said "but other racing games had all this already", the thing is, it's brand new to Forza in general, because it never had such a function since, well since FM6. The closest we had with it was FM7, but just like you said, it was all random, which was very disappointing.


Whoa!! I mean, I'm not disagreeing. :P A livery editor for the racing suits would be much appreciated. If not that, than regular racing suits with different designs can work too (even as unlockables). Let's keep it somple without those party-themed outfits we've had in FM7. ;)
Livery editor in making real racing suits i support that but not racing suits found in fm7 like the gingerbread and astronaut. The Stig costume was fine
 
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Looks amazing graphically, but the most important thing for me is how it plays with a steering wheel. If it feels as good as assetto corsa, rf2, or automobilista 2 on pc I will be impressed and so happy 😊
Yeah the handling and features are more important for all of us, but why you think it could feel as good as the best sims on the market? Sure it can change, but Forza was always a simcade. You will only get disappointed if you expect it could end up similar to RF2 or AC, imo.
 
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So these windshield stickers seem new (on the amg gt3 and the 911 rsr).
Nvm, i had a custom livery on fm7 on the 911, thats why its blacked out.



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Although they are on the Apollo IE in the unveil trailer, which afaik doesn't come with it.
 
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Forza has the role of being the primary race game with fancy visuals to show off your Xbox to your friends. Now with Horizon having overtaken Motorsport in popularity I guess there's some room for T10 to improve realism, but FM(8) absolutely MUST play great with a controller. This is vastly more important for T10 than appeasing the tiny player base of pure sims like ACC and iRacing.

however, since FM(8) is going to be marketing itself on amazing graphics to be an Xbox seller, probably aiming for as many Gamepass downloads as FH5 (which recently passed 20 million unique users according to the accolade hall of fame), it will remain primarily Simcade, with the option to disable the assists like always.

for me, FM(8) will be a huge success if it manages 3 things:
1. Amazing visuals (looks covered)
2. Overhauled homolgation system (just let us race cars at whatever PI and match the Drivatars like in Horizon 4/5)
3. Remove the horrifying Forza Glue crap when you touch another car (which isn't present in FH5 by the way), and tweak handling with an improved tyre model for less stupid prebaked sliding after grip loss (hopefully the new tyre model does this)

do that and FM(8) will be just about exactly what it needs to be. Car and track list will be fine, no worries there.
 
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Another thing which had to be fixed would be the multiplayer speedcar problem. It sounds nice to enter a 200 hp Lotus on slicks or a 1000 hp american muscle bomber with bad street tyres in the same race but in reality it just doesn't work well in the lobbies.
 
Another thing which had to be fixed would be the multiplayer speedcar problem. It sounds nice to enter a 200 hp Lotus on slicks or a 1000 hp american muscle bomber with bad street tyres in the same race but in reality it just doesn't work well in the lobbies.
This has always been Forza Motorsports biggest flaw in multiplayer lobby's. Or you can almost guarantee a win with a car built with acceleration and decent handling.
 
Thats where homologation comes into play. I hope they have it improved for the new game.
They should keep the open lobby's for people that don't care about truly competitive racing. They just need to make a rule that a car cannot jump higher than 1 class. I got tired of seeing E class cars dominating C class. Homologation was a complete failure because they broke up the cars into too many classes.
 
Here's the breakdown from the latest Forza Monthly:

  • Chris Esaki says that everything from the game's engine, physics and gameplay were built from the ground up
  • Multiplayer mode is said to have a full race weekend format with practice and qualifying with tire and fuel management
  • He says that the tracks were completely rebuilt, with some tracks (most notably real-world ones) being laser scanned
  • The 48x increase of fidelity on the physics come from the eight points of contact per tire with six times the frequency, and combined with the enhanced suspension model and weight modeling, Chris Esaki says it's the best driving model he's ever experienced in a Forza title
  • Ray-tracing is on everywhere (real-time)
  • He also confirms that with regards to dynamic time of day being available on every track, it's completely within a full 24-hour time format, with temperature and atmospheric pressure adaptively changing the driving experience
  • He'll mention more about weather in a future Forza Monthly, as well as multiplayer
  • He likens car damage and dirt to the entire story of the race, besides the improved damage modeling with individual scratches being modeled all over the body, it also applies to the cars' wheels, and from the looks of it, even the dirt of the car will be completely detailed
  • The amount of fuel on your car will affect its weight
  • Tire compounds consist of the traditional hards, mediums and softs
  • He chooses tracks based on how much it will affect the gameplay experience, not because of name recognition (regarding Kyalami, and is Chris Esaki's personal favorite circuit)
  • The new Forza-original Circuit Hakone is a grand prix circuit, close to Mt. Fuji, so this track is in no way similar to Fujimi Kaido (despite Hakone being a popular area in Japan known for its winding mountain roads, onsen, ryokans and boats roaming the riverside)
  • There will be more tracks, from returning to completely new ones
  • 37 cars were currently shown so far (Chris Esaki's personal favorite is the Mercedes-AMG GT3), and the car list was teased to feature a larger number of motorsport and race-focused vehicles, details still vague based on the other varieties of cars
  • Absolutely nothing was mentioned about off-road and/or rallying (as of the moment)
  • Fidelity and immersion are Chris Esaki's most-overused words
 
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"37 cars were currently shown so far (Chris Esaki's personal favorite is the Mercedes-AMG GT3), and the car list was teased to feature a larger number of motorsport and race-focused vehicles, details still vague"

I have a small feeling this may or may not make some happy given the past discussions of certain vehicles introduced during FM7's DLC roster. I would assume it also means not to expect FM7/FH5 numbers as I believe Chris said they picked those cars in the trailer specifically to give an idea of where they're going with the roster this time around, so I'm betting a bunch of vehicles from the most recent Forza titles are not being brought over.
 
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