Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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Lowered contrast, as you told me, to 0.5 (or 0.05 - not sure) and cockpit looks much better.
Or Ferrari is more detailed than Audi...
Playing on Performance, but thinking about going to the Visual, since I don't care very much about 30 or 60fps.

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The lack of RTAO in performance mode really makes it look bad. They should have used the SSAO in performance mode jsut like FH5 which is far less demanding and still very effective.
 
Well, I reinstalled the game on my PC to see in what state it is now, and I'm happy to report that it is in a good place for my rig's specs, at least.

I still get an annoying message claiming that the game may not launch because my CPU is not compatible (My CPU is an Intel i3 12100F and it takes great offense at this), I just ignore it and the game boots anyway.

At medium dynamic rendering quality (no FSR 2.0, all other settings in auto), I get 105 fps on average on the benchmark, but in practice it can get as high as 110 fps, and as low as 90. If I bump the dynamic rendering to high, then I get 88 fps on average, but again, it can get higher. Performance only comes down when the rendering quality is at ultra (54 fps on average) and at this point FSR 2.0 gets it to 60 fps on average.

So, I tweaked some video settings to my preference, and I run between 70-85 fps, with a graphic quality that decidedly is different from the consoles, although it is not in the level of FH5, which can run to 144 fps (the limit of my monitor) at high settings all day long.

Now it seems Fluid Motion Frames are coming with the latest AMD drivers (RX 6650 XT card), so I will see what it can do together with FSR 2.0, which is required for that to work.
 
Lowered contrast, as you told me, to 0.5 (or 0.05 - not sure) and cockpit looks much better.
Or Ferrari is more detailed than Audi...
Playing on Performance, but thinking about going to the Visual, since I don't care very much about 30 or 60fps.

View attachment 1321943
That's more like it! This image quality looks about the same as on my XSX. I run the brightness at the lowest setting (0). But the ideal value probably depends on what type of screen you're using. See what works best for you.

As the others have mentioned, if you want to experiment a bit you can also check out your TV's different visual modes. Some look a lot better than others.

I tried Visual mode back in October, when the game had just launched, and I would strongly recommend against it. In FH5 I play with 30 fps in visuals mode and that works just fine. But this mode in FM '23 just ran super poorly for me. Sure, the visuals and lighting looked a lot better, but it was as if the game ran in slow motion. Very stuttery and not as all as smooth and stable as the 30 fps in FH5. I ran one lap at Spa and then had to switch back to performance mode. The laggy visuals gave me a bit of motion sickness. But see what you think. Perhaps I'm just a bit sensitive.

Having seen what FM '23 looks like in visuals mode I envy the people with a high end PC that can run the highest visual settings while still getting 60 fps. On the other hand the performance and stability on PC seems questionable at best, so perhaps XSX isn't as bad after all 😉
(That didn't stop the game from crashing on XSX and corrupting my profile, but that's another story 😂😪).
Pedro Laughing GIF by Brand MKRS creative agency
 
Having seen what FM '23 looks like in visuals mode I envy the people with a high end PC that can run the highest visual settings while still getting 60 fps. On the other hand the performance and stability on PC seems questionable at best, so perhaps XSX isn't as bad after all 😉
(That didn't stop the game from crashing on XSX and corrupting my profile, but that's another story 😂😪).

I've got a 6700XT and pretty happy with quality/performance on my 1440p ultrawide, but recently I've been trying to run it on a 4k OLED and it does struggle to hit 60fps in the rain on high, but it's buttery smooth for me on my Series X. I think maybe at native res PC does look a bit sharper, but for the price of the Series X, it's a no brainer, I've been looking into whether I can find an upgrade over my 6700XT, but I'd be able to buy a couple of Series X consoles just to get a meaningful upgrade, which is mad.

Did you have any luck with your profile or is your support ticket still active?
 
That's more like it! This image quality looks about the same as on my XSX. I run the brightness at the lowest setting (0). But the ideal value probably depends on what type of screen you're using. See what works best for you.

As the others have mentioned, if you want to experiment a bit you can also check out your TV's different visual modes. Some look a lot better than others.

I tried Visual mode back in October, when the game had just launched, and I would strongly recommend against it. In FH5 I play with 30 fps in visuals mode and that works just fine. But this mode in FM '23 just ran super poorly for me. Sure, the visuals and lighting looked a lot better, but it was as if the game ran in slow motion. Very stuttery and not as all as smooth and stable as the 30 fps in FH5. I ran one lap at Spa and then had to switch back to performance mode. The laggy visuals gave me a bit of motion sickness. But see what you think. Perhaps I'm just a bit sensitive.

Having seen what FM '23 looks like in visuals mode I envy the people with a high end PC that can run the highest visual settings while still getting 60 fps. On the other hand the performance and stability on PC seems questionable at best, so perhaps XSX isn't as bad after all 😉
(That didn't stop the game from crashing on XSX and corrupting my profile, but that's another story 😂😪).
Pedro Laughing GIF by Brand MKRS creative agency
I'll tried it in Visual and see how it behaves.
If there is no big difference in graphics, I'm setting back to Performance.
 
I'll tried it in Visual and see how it behaves.
If there is no big difference in graphics, I'm setting back to Performance.
The difference is mostly just ray tracing. You should also see less resolution drops (i.e. Visuals Node should be closer to 1440p much more often, rather than spending most time at 1080p or even lower).

From memory these are the real differences:

On XSS:
  • Performance Mode is somewhere between 900p and 1440p (dynamic resolution) with zero ray tracing, 60fps
  • Visuals Mode is closer to 1440p (still dynamic resolution) with some ray tracing, 30fps

On XSX:
  • Performance Mode is mostly 4k (dynamic resolution) with zero ray tracing, 60fps
  • Performance Mode RT is mostly around 1440p-ish (dynamic resolution) with some ray tracing, 60fps
  • Visuals Mode is mostly 4k (still dynamic resolution) with full ray tracing, 30fps

Digital Foundry did an assessment at launch, but things have changed a little since then:
 
Well, I did some tweaks this morning on the PC, and I think I will settle on these settings:
Display rendering quality on high (default is medium), no FSR 2.0, all other things set to auto except resolution scale, which is set to 100% (for 1080p).

I get a very clean look that gets to about 90 fps on average in the cockpit view, and up to 120 fps (!) on hood/bumper/chase cameras. There are some visual quirks here and there, but no noticeable stuttering, and so far, no crashes.

The GPU is working to about 98%, as it should, memory usage is 11 MB, and the CPU is around 70% in usage, so no bottlenecking.

Honestly, I don't recall it being this good at launch... Me thinks they would have avoided a lot of grief if they'd released the game as a "Preview"! :rolleyes:
 
Well, I did some tweaks this morning on the PC, and I think I will settle on these settings:
Display rendering quality on high (default is medium), no FSR 2.0, all other things set to auto except resolution scale, which is set to 100% (for 1080p).

I get a very clean look that gets to about 90 fps on average in the cockpit view, and up to 120 fps (!) on hood/bumper/chase cameras. There are some visual quirks here and there, but no noticeable stuttering, and so far, no crashes.

The GPU is working to about 98%, as it should, memory usage is 11 MB, and the CPU is around 70% in usage, so no bottlenecking.

Honestly, I don't recall it being this good at launch... Me thinks they would have avoided a lot of grief if they'd released the game as a "Preview"! :rolleyes:
Note that Dynamic Render Quality appears to do way more than it implies.
Someone did some testing:


Personally, I do seem to notice the tessellation and improved ambient occlusion on grass when setting Dynamic Render Quality to Ultra. The FM23 grass is not very good to be honest, but without tessellation and AO on the grass it looks extremely flat. Therefore I accept the 3-5fps hit from enabling Ultra to get the best grass I can.
 
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Note that Dynamic Render Quality appears to do way more than it implies.
Someone did some testing:


Personally, I do seem to notice the tessellation and improved ambient occlusion on grass when setting Dynamic Render Quality to Ultra. The FM23 grass is not very good to be honest, but without tessellation and AO on the grass it looks extremely flat. Therefore I accept the 3-5fps hit from enabling Ultra to get the best grass I can.

Agreed. I did test ultra yesterday but then performance comes down to 54 fps on average (60 maximum with FSR), and is quite playable, but I didn't see much visual improvement over the high setting. Resolution scale was on auto then though. I fear fps would go down even further with render quality at ultra/resolution scale at 100%.

I will eventually test the fluid motion frames when I update my drivers, but not right now, I usually wait about a week to be safe.
 
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The lack of RTAO in performance mode really makes it look bad. They should have used the SSAO in performance mode jsut like FH5 which is far less demanding and still very effective.
I wonder if they got rid of any fallback AO just to make the RT mode look noticeably better, because reflections alone probably wouldn't have done that.
 
Agreed. I did test ultra yesterday but then performance comes down to 54 fps on average (60 maximum with FSR), and is quite playable, but I didn't see much visual improvement over the high setting. Resolution scale was on auto then though. I fear fps would go down even further with render quality at ultra/resolution scale at 100%.

I will eventually test the fluid motion frames when I update my drivers, but not right now, I usually wait about a week to be safe.

I would just try lowering resolution. I run ultra/high everything. No Ray Tracing, no FSR/DLSS. 80% resolution gets me a pretty constant 60 FPS at 4k. Only drops a couple FPS here and there in demanding scenarios but is the best looking, smoothest I can compromise to.
Plus I'm running a modded track config settings to combat some of that washiness. This is the original mod download but you can play with the values. They're fairly self explanatory.
 

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I just redid the benchmark for Update 4.0. Moving between Dynamic Render Quality Ultra and High gained me 8fps, whereas in testing in an earlier Update it was only 4-5fps difference.

I think I'll leave it on High for now, those 8fps are quite pleasant to have.
 
I kinda feel bad with myself for like the XP system after see so many people that seems to dislike often
I understand the hate, but I tend to make change of parts in my car only to improve the peformace vs others, a thing that tends to follow the XP system in the game, and when i played in older forzas I never was someone that cared much to adjust setups and stuffs like that, in fact i always went to get the setups that other people had made before

For me, i enjoyed the idea of being able to stick to my car for more time, kinda like on GT4 that you started with a car that was slower than other cars and used to race and race in order to get your car better, the more you raced the more you get parts

Some people say that it could be done with money (like was on GT4) but while that is somewhat i still think that we should have some game guards agnaist the IZI EXTREME X CUSTOM SETUP culture that exists on Forza and was grown ever more in last 2 horizons, this idea kinda annoys me and I wanted that game gave as much insentive for people enjoy """"""slow""""" and """"""boring""""""""cars as much they like the X SETUPS they usualy do

The fact that i liked of see it back and see this type of progression somewhat back makes me sad that i was the only one that liked it and doesnt went super over critical over it, at point that some people even think that iam being sacastic saying such things when i am being gennuine honest about it
 
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I kinda feel bad with myself for like the XP system after see so many people that seems to dislike often
I understand the hate, but I tend to make change of parts in my car only to improve the peformace vs others, a thing that tends to follow the XP system in the game, and when i played in older forzas I never was someone that cared much to adjust setups and stuffs like that, in fact i always went to get the setups that other people had made before

For me, i enjoyed the idea of being able to stick to my car for more time, kinda like on GT4 that you started with a car that was slower than other cars and used to race and race in order to get your car better, the more you raced the more you get parts

Some people say that it could be done with money (like was on GT4) but while that is somewhat i still think that we should have some game guards agnaist the IZI EXTREME X CUSTOM SETUP culture that exists on Forza and was grown ever more in last 2 horizons, this idea kinda annoys me and I wanted that game gave as much insentive for people enjoy """"""slow""""" and """"""boring""""""""cars as much they like the X SETUPS they usualy do

The fact that i liked of see it back and see this type of progression somewhat back makes me sad that i was the only one that liked it and doesnt went super over critical over it, at point that some people even think that iam being sacastic saying such things when i am being gennuine honest about it

I enjoy it, and I think the idea is a good one, but it does fall short in some areas.

1. It just takes too long to max level a car, by level 20-30 IMO you should have all current unlocks.

2. Why stop at 50, give us a reason to keep levelling past 50, even if it's just a number, and also display it in lobbies so I can show off my car level.

3. Unlocks should be tier based, why not let me unlock sport transmission, exhaust, springs etc at the same time, it's kinda nonsensical ATM with things like race tires which get unlocked pretty quickly but you have to grind out a whole bunch more levels to have enough xp to actually use it.

4. Car XP accumulation should be logarithmic rather than linear, give me some decent points for my first few levels so I can afford the unlocks you give me, this will work itself out in MP for example, maybe you upgrade a car to the next class up fairly easily, but you need to put in a bunch more laps to unlock the whole tree and xp

So yeah, the idea isn't bad, but the execution wasn't great, some tweaks like this and others that have been mentioned and there wouldn't have been the same backlash on release
 
I kinda feel bad with myself for like the XP system after see so many people that seems to dislike often
I understand the hate, but I tend to make change of parts in my car only to improve the peformace vs others, a thing that tends to follow the XP system in the game, and when i played in older forzas I never was someone that cared much to adjust setups and stuffs like that, in fact i always went to get the setups that other people had made before

For me, i enjoyed the idea of being able to stick to my car for more time, kinda like on GT4 that you started with a car that was slower than other cars and used to race and race in order to get your car better, the more you raced the more you get parts

Some people say that it could be done with money (like was on GT4) but while that is somewhat i still think that we should have some game guards agnaist the IZI EXTREME X CUSTOM SETUP culture that exists on Forza and was grown ever more in last 2 horizons, this idea kinda annoys me and I wanted that game gave as much insentive for people enjoy """"""slow""""" and """"""boring""""""""cars as much they like the X SETUPS they usualy do

The fact that i liked of see it back and see this type of progression somewhat back makes me sad that i was the only one that liked it and doesnt went super over critical over it, at point that some people even think that iam being sacastic saying such things when i am being gennuine honest about it

I enjoy it, and I think the idea is a good one, but it does fall short in some areas.

1. It just takes too long to max level a car, by level 20-30 IMO you should have all current unlocks.

2. Why stop at 50, give us a reason to keep levelling past 50, even if it's just a number, and also display it in lobbies so I can show off my car level.

3. Unlocks should be tier based, why not let me unlock sport transmission, exhaust, springs etc at the same time, it's kinda nonsensical ATM with things like race tires which get unlocked pretty quickly but you have to grind out a whole bunch more levels to have enough xp to actually use it.

4. Car XP accumulation should be logarithmic rather than linear, give me some decent points for my first few levels so I can afford the unlocks you give me, this will work itself out in MP for example, maybe you upgrade a car to the next class up fairly easily, but you need to put in a bunch more laps to unlock the whole tree and xp

So yeah, the idea isn't bad, but the execution wasn't great, some tweaks like this and others that have been mentioned and there wouldn't have been the same backlash on release
I feel like having the same system for both MP and SP may be one of the issues here. I am not sure you can get a system like this that works for both at the same time without having different approaches.

As a SP gamer, I like the XP system concept, but it just feels like upgrading takes too long. Using the full practice time will get you to level 25-30 at the end of a series , whereas I feel like that should get you to level 50, and then when you finish that series you choose what to do with the car going forwards.

For MP I feel like it should be all upgrades available from the start, have a separate MP level figure and SP level figure altogether. Plenty of drivers would still want that level 50 showing on the MP drivers list, for "bragging rights" etc.

Unfortunately, everything feels like it's been designed as follows:
1. Think of a nice idea, e.g. XP.
2. Now how do we stretch that out to last 3-5 years on Game Pass?

With part 2 causing a lot of the gameplay design issues (level up being too slow, SP career being dripfed in tiny drips and a permanent career that is just lip service so that they can say "there's a career mode").

I've played all the featured tours and open series so far, but it's only today that i got the Achievement for 10 cars at level 50. That's got to be too long surely?
 
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I've got a 6700XT and pretty happy with quality/performance on my 1440p ultrawide, but recently I've been trying to run it on a 4k OLED and it does struggle to hit 60fps in the rain on high, but it's buttery smooth for me on my Series X. I think maybe at native res PC does look a bit sharper, but for the price of the Series X, it's a no brainer, I've been looking into whether I can find an upgrade over my 6700XT, but I'd be able to buy a couple of Series X consoles just to get a meaningful upgrade, which is mad.

Did you have any luck with your profile or is your support ticket still active?
The financial side of things is ofc another important factor to consider and a reason to choose a console over a PC. In your situation it seems like the law of diminishing returns has come into force.

The ticket is still active and I haven't heard from Forza Support. Luckily, thanks to @ManteoMax's answer above, I know that they're aware and working on it.

It's been almost a week now that I haven't been able to play the game, which is very frustrating. I understand that Forza Support is probably swamped with different bugs and issues though. Hopefully I'll get some help soon.

Regarding the CXP/upgrade-system I tend to agree with you. It isn't inherently bad. Like you said, it's just quite poorly executed. It takes too long to reach level 50 and you can't afford parts that you unlock quite early until much later (for example race tires).

You shouldn't feel bad for liking the system @meganinja. But it could've been implemented in a much better way!
 
About unplayable game, I had some trouble yesterday. The game got stuck between some loading-screens after a race, it was all dark but I could hear sound. Game was frozen, tryed to restart my xbox but this quick resume autosave just returned me to the same dark place. Whatever I did, the game was unplayable.

Lucky for me I have several aliases so I logged out and then logged in on another profile. To start up FM I then had to delete the (bad) qiuck-resume for my main profile. Like deleting the cache-file. Problem solved.
 
About unplayable game, I had some trouble yesterday. The game got stuck between some loading-screens after a race, it was all dark but I could hear sound. Game was frozen, tryed to restart my xbox but this quick resume autosave just returned me to the same dark place. Whatever I did, the game was unplayable.

Lucky for me I have several aliases so I logged out and then logged in on another profile. To start up FM I then had to delete the (bad) qiuck-resume for my main profile. Like deleting the cache-file. Problem solved.
You, Sir, are an absolute hero! You've made my day and I can't thank you enough! I followed this guide and did all three steps:


And you know what, this actually worked. The game started and logged me in!!!

Interestingly enough the game crash that caused this seems to have been of the same kind as yours. The game has crashed countless times, but it has always thrown me out to the Xbox home screen. But this time the screen went dark and the game got stuck instead.

Clearing the cache solved the problem!
 
Any tips for a novice trying to upgrade slow cars that just end up with smoking tires? :nervous:
Put the best tyres on that you can realistically get, then apply power afterwards. FM23 cars always benefit from more grip unless you go far too far (i.e. slicks on a car with 100bhp is going too far)
 
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How do you mean? Are you feeling that you're not getting enough grip with your builds?🤔

Slipping Falling Down GIF
It's not so much the handling, but like they can't put down the extra power (the 65 Mini Cooper) but the tires on my 74 Toyota Corolla are smoking when accelerating in second gear.

I've tried new tires skazz.
 
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It's not so much the handling, but like they can't put down the extra power (the 65 Mini Cooper) but the tires on my 74 Toyota Corolla are smoking when accelerating in second gear.

I've tried new tires skazz.
Well, like @skazz already mentioned, tires makes a big difference. Especially slicks.

I've also found that I'm faster on most tracks (except perhaps Le Mans) if I run with as much downforce as possible.

I usually go for handling builds, which makes the cars drive quite nicely and usually doesn't cause too much trouble with putting the power down.

If the car isn't unreasonably underpowered from the start, weight reduction, shorter gear ratios and perhaps a simple power mod like exhaust is enough to make your car fast enough. You usually don't need lots of extra power. It's in the corners you'll shave off most time of your laptimes. (If we're not talking extreme situations like running a car with sub 150 hp on a track with extremely long straights).
 
It's not so much the handling, but like they can't put down the extra power (the 65 Mini Cooper) but the tires on my 74 Toyota Corolla are smoking when accelerating in second gear.

I've tried new tires skazz.


Double check tire pressures

Softer rear springs

Suspension geometry has a profound impact, avoid big swings though

Everyone likes different differential settings but higher on the accel, note it will impact the cars agility

Too much camber can affect straight line traction

Generally speaking, I can make almost anything reasonably driveable within about 10 minutes. Would an actual fast and good driver like it? Oh hell no, but a slow loser like me can make it around without stuffing the thing at least.
 
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You, Sir, are an absolute hero! You've made my day and I can't thank you enough! I followed this guide and did all three steps:


And you know what, this actually worked. The game started and logged me in!!!

Interestingly enough the game crash that caused this seems to have been of the same kind as yours. The game has crashed countless times, but it has always thrown me out to the Xbox home screen. But this time the screen went dark and the game got stuck instead.

Clearing the cache solved the problem!
Happy for you! Wondered if my problem could be ca the same as yours

@AttackDickie; about upgrading; try a bit patient, step by step until you learn about how much power certain tyres can take. Allways be shure to have at least a sports-differential on, set accel to minimum 55% for a start. Too stiff and the car will understeer.

My first legal car was a silver metallic 1968 Ford Cortina GT hotted up to some 140hp. 185-tyres and a open diff. The 840kg Cortina would spin one wheel halfway out 3rd gear :cool:

- or you could try some of my setups.(gt:fairlane305) One of the first things I do is to add a racesuspension. Springs wery soft, like 200lb. Dampers like 4.6-4.9 rebound 6.8-8.0. Alignement starts at F:1.1 R:0.9 on most cars. Soft swaybars, like F:7.0 R:6.6 Swaybars must be tuned to tyres friction. This will work on most oldtimers, the trick is to start soft
 
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